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Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 320

post #9571 of 10012
Correct on the ep4000 wiring as others have stated.

For the BFD I keep recommending this page for setup from ThomasW(IB cult). We seem to be re-posting these links but it's ok cause this thread is so large it's hard to find the info you need without knowing what to search for wink.gif.

BFD quick quide
https://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpage6.html

REW quick quide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4uSR3cUUSY


(Q is bandwidth)BFD bandwidth setting
PEQ minus 4.6dB, @ 29Hz, (Q=5 BW=0.2881) BFD=17.3
PEQ minus 8.4dB @ 55Hz, (Q=8.9 BW=0.162) BFD=9.7
PEQ minus 7.5dB @ 84Hz, (Q=2.8 BW=0.5125) BFD=30.8
PEQ minus 14.4dB @ 154Hz, (Q=1.1 BW=1.2701) BFD=76.2

Best to measure before applying anything but these are some frequencies to have a starting point idea of adjusting.


Also those wanting to use a BFD but have trouble finding one can now get the FBQ1000
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6678
Edited by autox320 - 1/27/13 at 7:29pm
post #9572 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Well, there has not been a commercial product to beat the DTS-10 from 12.5 hz and up so I don't expect the MFW turbos either. It takes two VS 18.1's from chase to equal the DTS-10 and those are 18's. It takes two rythmiks to equal a DTS-10(3 at 16hz) so I don't expect the turbos to be better.

MKTheater, with due respect, but still the DTS-10 needs a rocket scientist kind of a knowledge base in the sound engineering to caliber and tune the EQ to make it work perfectly.. Not all of us are proficient to do so. Atleast two subs like the seaton or chase work out of the box with basic calibration using MultEQ XT32.
I have been put off many times by not going the DTS-10 route due to the EQ'ing process using the BDF, miniDSP etc. I guess a lot of members in here who are owning a DTS-10 still havent been able to properly EQ the sub.
post #9573 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post

MKTheater, with due respect, but still the DTS-10 needs a rocket scientist kind of a knowledge base in the sound engineering to caliber and tune the EQ to make it work perfectly.. Not all of us are proficient to do so. Atleast two subs like the seaton or chase work out of the box with basic calibration using MultEQ XT32.
I have been put off many times by not going the DTS-10 route due to the EQ'ing process using the BDF, miniDSP etc. I guess a lot of members in here who are owning a DTS-10 still havent been able to properly EQ the sub.

i think everyone with a dts-10 has probably eq'd their sub properly by now. everyone bought it knowing what was needed to get this working properly.
post #9574 of 10012
^^^

Would I be so bold to say that anyone who just plops a sub into a room with no regard to placement, and uses zero EQ (Audessey not included), is not getting even close to the full potential out of their sub. I don't care whether it's the DTS, SVS, Rythmik, etc. For one to truly realize the potential of any sub, they must first understand the room it is placed in; and then how room placement and eq effect performance.

To say a Seaton or Chase work out of the box is not really an accurate statement. The work no better or worse than the DTS, with regards to the environment in which they are placed in.
post #9575 of 10012
Where am I? Looks at the top of the page to confirm...Oh wait that's right I'm in the DIY section. I guess it's building rockets for some. If you have a significant other it can be worse. The example of Chase HT isn't a drop in either. The dayton 1000 amp has ability to eq even if primitive it's useful. If your reading anything in this part of the forums you'll know eq is everywhere and part of the game. Yes the Danley looks more difficult at first because you start with having "peaks" inherent to the box design of a TH. Reality it makes no difference weather it's a sealed, ported, IB, or horn eq will help match it to your room. Placement first, eq second. Plenty of tutorial and help in this forum. I'd be willing to bet you could just get a few REW sweeps, post for help, email the file, and quite a few would actually have fun trying to help you adjust and get it where you wanted.

Welcome to the DIY section.
post #9576 of 10012
I had a buddy get a Submerssive and it certainly did not work out well out of the box or with "minimal eq". He ended up going to the same lengths that I did with the DTS. I haven't heard his since EQ, I've got to get over there.
post #9577 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

^^^

Would I be so bold to say that anyone who just plops a sub into a room with no regard to placement, and uses zero EQ (Audessey not included), is not getting even close to the full potential out of their sub. I don't care whether it's the DTS, SVS, Rythmik, etc. For one to truly realize the potential of any sub, they must first understand the room it is placed in; and then how room placement and eq effect performance.

To say a Seaton or Chase work out of the box is not really an accurate statement. The work no better or worse than the DTS, with regards to the environment in which they are placed in.


Exactly, the DTS is no more difficult to EQ than any other sub. I don't care what the specs say for anechoic measurements, they ALL need to be room corrected to get the best sounding system.
post #9578 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post

Atleast two subs like the seaton or chase work out of the box .
Only if your room has no walls and no ceiling. eek.gif
post #9579 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Only if your room has no walls and no ceiling. eek.gif

No kidding.

Take those two "perfect" subs and add a microphone at the listening position and you will quickly realize how ridiculous that statement is. You can't escape the influence of boundaries and physics no matter how much you spend or what brand you buy or what alignment is used.

The factory peaks in the DTS don't exist IN my room. Therefore, it is really easy for me to EQ it.
Edited by jpmst3 - 1/28/13 at 6:47am
post #9580 of 10012
The only reason the DTS-10 is difficult to EQ for some is because it is very large and hard to place in the best spot for a smooth response. Smaller sealed or smaller vented subs can be plaved in better locations so need less EQ. The DTS-10 is the real deal but massive.
post #9581 of 10012
That is a true enough. Placement can be an issue with a large and 300lb enclosure.eek.giftongue.gif

But, there is a price for everything.
Edited by jpmst3 - 1/28/13 at 8:17am
post #9582 of 10012
So, I am reading about DTS and it makes me think wouldn't someone be better off building 4 THT's? It should be about the same price.
post #9583 of 10012
I think the THT is more difficult to place, as no single dimension is small. It also doesn't dig as deep. But I've heard a pair, and they are quite impressive!
post #9584 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozziedog View Post

So, I am reading about DTS and it makes me think wouldn't someone be better off building 4 THT's? It should be about the same price.

Yes, and no. You will then have to deal with trying to find homes for 4 separate enclosures and the related wiring and as tony mentioned 4 of them will probably still not equal the THT in the subsonic freqs.

You should get a smoother response curve as opposed to one of any other sub.
Edited by jpmst3 - 1/28/13 at 5:29pm
post #9585 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

That is a true enough. Placement can be an issue with a large and 300lb enclosure.eek.giftongue.gif

But, there is a price for everything.
It's only 225 lbs! Don't make my beautiful girl any fatter than she already is!
post #9586 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Yes, and no. You will then have to deal with trying to find homes for 4 separate enclosures and the related wiring and as tony mentioned 4 of them will probably still not equal the THT in the subsonic freqs.

You should get a smoother response curve as opposed to one of any other sub.

Apologies for my ignorant question, but still that perfect subsonic frequency requires a lot of eq'ing.. right? Although the THT still requires EQ'ing, but its still mananages to pull an impressive feat with minimum efforts (barring placement ect). I am more inclined towards the technical aspect of eq'ing of various subs, as they involve multiple components, and a knowledge base of MKTheater or Ricci, only then you can boast of acheiving the deepest possible frequency. On paper THT does not dig deep as deep as DTS, and i am sure it might matter to a lot of audiophiles, but understanding the kind of knowledge they have in this field makes it achievable for them to use various components, maths, calculations and i guess tons of experience makes them make the most of DTS. However people with moderate or above moderate knowledge are able to get the best from THT with minimum efforts, still reaching deep enough that leaves its impact with hard hitting bass.
post #9587 of 10012
Thread Starter 
My biggest thing with the DTS is that now I am no longer wanting or wondering about something different. It has everything I need. In fact I will say, with great chance of getting run out of the forum, that I have found my own audio utopia and don't have the desire to change anything. At least not now. I have a receiver that meets my needs, I enjoy my speakers immensely, and my subwoofer has yet to meet its match in my room. I have heard better sounds but to get there would cost money I don't have and quite possibly may never have (jubilees). As far as the sub the only wonder I have now is if it would be that much better with 2 of these. I don't need 2. 1 can do more than I need as it is.
post #9588 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

It's only 225 lbs! Don't make my beautiful girl any fatter than she already is!

She is a heavy girl. I've not weighed one but Danley spec page says shes 285 lbs Gents. So our 2 stacked on each other is 570 lbs creating a near 8ft wall sub counting the height on it's very heavy duty castors. But at only 16 inches deep the floor footprint really isn't much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

My biggest thing with the DTS is that now I am no longer wanting or wondering about something different. It has everything I need. In fact I will say, with great chance of getting run out of the forum, that I have found my own audio utopia and don't have the desire to change anything. At least not now. I have a receiver that meets my needs, I enjoy my speakers immensely, and my subwoofer has yet to meet its match in my room. I have heard better sounds but to get there would cost money I don't have and quite possibly may never have (jubilees). As far as the sub the only wonder I have now is if it would be that much better with 2 of these. I don't need 2. 1 can do more than I need as it is.

If I were home more listening to them instead of downrange...I wouldn't be bench racing with REW and forums. Fact is I have 2 and can't see anything yet short of attempting an IB with 6-8 IB318's just to see how it would sound different vs SPL. Not sure if I'd even notice any difference. With two dts-10s the 130dB's becomes reality and how much are you visiting that? It is fun at times I'll admit but a whole movie will leave you exhausted biggrin.gif . Nothing exceeds like excess, but I like my house and want to keep from repairing ceiling drywall, replacing floor tile, or that crazy feeling of falling into my garage from our living room.

Far as digging deep, sure. Last time I even ran a sweep with REW at the seating position was rolling off at 9Hz. I plan to induce a HPF at 11Hz to keep from bottoming the drivers at full juice on certain movie content. Lately though it's not been a problem at all without one. Really depends on content and some untested or pre screened showings it can happen. I'd imagine running a IB at full tilt without a HPF is a no go and going to end in damaged drivers in single digit content. Most I've read don't run that hard or have HPF in place at around 10Hz.
post #9589 of 10012
Hey guys,
Just wanted to inform anyone interested that I have a couple of dts-10 kits for sale in the classified section. that's it!!! :-) thanks
post #9590 of 10012
Brandon, you stated that very well. It's the same feeling I have. The DTS has killed my curiousity. It really doesn't matter what's better, as neither my house or my head could take any more. I could grow old with my current system and know that I'm not missing out. I may, one day, experiment with my mains just so I can keep the hobby going...but I'll buy the new mains without selling my LaScalas. That way, it'll be easy enough to undo my mistake. tongue.gif
post #9591 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

It's only 225 lbs! Don't make my beautiful girl any fatter than she already is!

I am not sure about yours, but mine tips the scales at about 290lbs, I round up to 300.
Edited by jpmst3 - 1/29/13 at 5:08am
post #9592 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post

Apologies for my ignorant question, but still that perfect subsonic frequency requires a lot of eq'ing.. right? Although the THT still requires EQ'ing, but its still mananages to pull an impressive feat with minimum efforts (barring placement ect). I am more inclined towards the technical aspect of eq'ing of various subs, as they involve multiple components, and a knowledge base of MKTheater or Ricci, only then you can boast of acheiving the deepest possible frequency. On paper THT does not dig deep as deep as DTS, and i am sure it might matter to a lot of audiophiles, but understanding the kind of knowledge they have in this field makes it achievable for them to use various components, maths, calculations and i guess tons of experience makes them make the most of DTS. However people with moderate or above moderate knowledge are able to get the best from THT with minimum efforts, still reaching deep enough that leaves its impact with hard hitting bass.

No apologies!

But, I think you are getting confused somewhere along the line. ANY sub will require EQing when placed in a room, that is if you want to get the most out of it.
You can always choose not to do it and just live with what you have. No matter what sub you buy and how much you spend on it, once you add it to your room the freq response will be modified, most times significantly.
My THT required the same degree of EQing that my DTS now does. I discovered long ago that the best way to tackle most of it was to add more subs to even out the response. The DTS is a sub, plain and simple. They all behave the same when placed in your room...You will peaks and nulls due to interactions with the room. The same principle exists in a microwave. Put a piece of frozen meat in there and put it on high for 10 minutes. There will be some parts of the meat that are cooked to death and other parts still frozen. There are your peaks and nulls due to the rectangular box and the interactions from the waves within. Of course, turntables were added to help alleviate the effect somewhat, but it still remains.
I am not sure why you are hung up on the process with the DTS. Drop it in your room, measure, apply EQ. It is the exact same process as ANY other sub. If you don't want to EQ ANY sub you will most likely have much less than optimal bass. Like anything else, if you don't know any better and/or don't have anything to compare the raw response to the EQed response you will think it is just fine. It is no different than viewing your 7 year old HDTV and then going over to your buddies' place and seeing his new TV. You thought yours was just fine until you saw the dramatic difference. EQing can make a dramatic difference as well. You can tackle that with a number of devices that are reasonably easy to use, ala miniDSP, DCX2496, etc. or buy a sub with an EQ built in, like Velodyne or ?
Somehow, perhaps by reading posts by those new to the hobby you extrapolated that the DTS is some uber special case for EQing. Yes, there are a couple of peaks that are inherent in the design. There are also peaks in the the THT's response. You can choose to tame those before you do anything or you can choose to EQ the final in room response.
Once again, even if there were some magical, mythical subwoofer that had a perfectly flat response, that all goes to hell when you add it to your room....bring on the EQ!
Edited by jpmst3 - 1/29/13 at 6:30am
post #9593 of 10012
Hi All - Since this thread has become more active, I thought I'd note that I recently found what I think is a good deal on an EQ option for this speaker. It is the new version of the BFD, model FBQ1000 (appears to be a replacement for the DSP1124P).

The going rate is $149 at music stores and online, but i found www.uniquesquared.com. It is an authorized dealer per the Behringer website and is selling the unit for $109 with no tax and free shipping. But they also allow you to make them an offer...I offered $95 and my offer was accepted very quickly (maybe I should've been more agressive). I know there are still some DSP1124P's to be had on craigslist etc. but if you're looking for something new I thought I'd pass this along.

I have had a DTS for quite a while, but forced myself to wait to get into EQ until my HT construction was finished. Really looking forward to it! smile.gif (and also probably to some help from you all redface.gif)
Edited by AirBenji - 1/29/13 at 6:48am
post #9594 of 10012
I am not familiar with that model, but that sounds like a good deal.
post #9595 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I am not familiar with that model, but that sounds like a good deal.

It's a rebadged 1124P basically the same thing. There's a thread going at HTS and apparently it also communicates over midi the same setting as the 1124p. I posted the PE link above but the Behringer direct sounds like the way to go.
post #9596 of 10012
Nice, if it works, it is a cheap solution.
post #9597 of 10012
OK, as requested here are videos of a brief Cloverfield sequence taken with my cell phone camera, through the new acrylic access panel I recently made. (as you can see by the reflections)

The first video is the excursion:
Please note: I have two other sealed 18" LMS-5400s (endtables) in the mix so the DTS-10 is not the only sub in the system. I am using one channel on a CE4000 (4ohm, ~1200w) for the DTS-10. The DTS is directly behind the couch at one listening position. The video shakes a little due to the strong tactile sensations on top of the couch (where I had my arm resting), since the mouth of the DTS is directly below. The shaking is in the camera, not the acrylic flexing or the enclosure shaking.

I firmly believe in under utilizing all components in the system so the DTS definitely has a lot more in the tank with both power handling and excursion. The amp (channel) would probably clip if it were few db louder. Of course, I could not listen at those levels for more than a few seconds, ouch! In fact, my head is pounding from that short sequence.
Sorry the excursion is not all that impressive. But, it is damn loud in the room, especially right next to the sub. It is just interesting to see it for a change. I am really liking the acrylic panel.

The second video shows the Radio Shack SPL meter during the beginning of the same sequence. The meter is set to slow, C weighting, 120db.
I am not sure why I could not get the meter to hold the max SPL. It definitely hit at least 123db frequently.

Notice how the white foam yellowed too.


Edited by jpmst3 - 1/29/13 at 7:58pm
post #9598 of 10012
Man, what has happened to the DTS love?
I assume people are still buying these beasts!
No questions, no comments, where is everyone?
post #9599 of 10012
The tapped horn fad has kind of worn off around here, it seems. A well designed one is still a worthy candidate to be put in a HT but I think the multi-sealed systems are the IN thing at the moment. I think the draw is the massive simplicity (notice all the new peeps around and ID converts? wink.gif) and full bandwidth extension.
post #9600 of 10012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The tapped horn fad has kind of worn off around here, it seems.

Say What!?!?!?
That's blasphemy! Long live the tapped horn king!
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