NEW Audio Tier Thread - Page 44

Thanks, I appreciate that. I am guilty of usually only coming here after I hear a mix that I was very impressed with. Alternatively, I might make a post here if I noticed a particular issue or have a counter point to what the general consensus might be on a certain title, like I did here.

Well "marching orders" is harsh -- I'm speaking loosely. Let's say there may be a "trend" in the industry. It just seems like we are not seeing the "excitement" with the surround sound/LFE usage like we saw about 10 years ago. Then again, maybe its cause we're all used to this now.

Do you contend that we are seeing the same caliber of exciting sound mixes as we saw starting originally with the first Matrix, moving on to U-571, then Lord of the Rings (extended Edition), Star Wars Phantom Menace, then the Incredibles etc.?

It seems like there is a trend to be more cautious, less ambitious and more conservative in surround and LFE usage (even with Pixar films, like Up and Wally). Pixar used to be among the crem de la crem for aggressive sound -- think back to Finding Nemo. The sub scene in Nemo wasn't dumbed down to avoid scaring kids. If Finding Nemo were made today, would that sub scene be as heavy -- would the whale vocals be as heavy and the surround usage as extensive? I'm not sure. Now the buzz word is "balanced" -- ie. watered down.

I dont see it that way.

Terminator Salvation, 9, The Incredible Hulk, Cloverfield, Hellboy 2, Gamer, Domino, Kung Fu Panda, Star Trek (I guess we can agree to disagree on this one), Max Payne, Monsters Vs Aliens, The Hurt Locker, Ninja Assassin, Taken, Transporter 3, Pandorum, Transformers 1 and 2, Underworld 3, etc.........just to name a few off the top of my head that are recent/relatively recent That are at least on par in general as far as aggression with anything before them IMO.


This statement is VERY suprising to me and I strongly disagree, but I respect your opinion. The Incredible Hulk would easily be in my top 3 favorite all time audio tracks and Salvation is not far behind it. I think both of these are VERY aggressive.


I pretty much agree with you on this point. As I said in my Avatar review, there is a very fine line between "balanced" and "conservative". Pixar peaked with aggressive sound with the Incredibles and it has gone down hill ever since IMO in general. I Thought both Up and Wall E were a bit weak compared to some of the Pixar tracks in the past. Not that the recent Pixar mixes are bad by any means, but they do seem a bit tamed compared to TS2, Nemo, Monsters Inc and The Incredibles.

I think that Hellboy2, Gamer, Transformers 2 and Terminator Salvation are loud more than anything else, not nuanced enough (I actually prefer the sound in Terminator 3 better than salvation, with the engine noise on those flying robot things in the beginning, the atom bomb and a few other scenes). I'm also talking like the scene in Star Wars Attack of the Clones where there is the chase of the assassin with those open air hover craft thingies and then the scene where they are flying through the asteriod belt. I think those scenes just about top any scene in the new star trek (which has its moments).

Cloverfield had good bass -- not great overall surround. Hurt Locker is a different sort of film not really fitting into this style, but it had its brief moments. I haven't scene Pandorum or Ninja Assassin (I might have to though).

Domino and Kung Fu Panda were very good though. Domino is kind of the earlier era though -- isn't it?

Interesting. I think Star Trek is easily atleast on par with those, but its all subjective.

Domino may be in the earlier era........not sure exactly when that came out now that you mention it.

Its all good man........audio is very subjective

I don't see any kind of changes, we just have different tastes or opinion of what is a good or adventurous mix these days. I do recall a couple of years ago we had a similar conversation regarding of Die Hard 4 and Spiderman3 the latter which you preferred to Die Hard 4, which I thought was a better mix from my POV. But in any case I don't try to project where the industry is heading based on what I like to hear from a mix. You seem to do just that.


Yes I do, if anything Hollywood produce more of those every year, I do believe we are spoiled actually, and now we concentrating mostly on bad ones and taking the good ones for granted.


I'm not sure where that balanced buzz word came from. I certainly want a balanced presentation meaning that no one segment of the mix overpower of the rest, being the music the dialog or the effects. Wally and Up is not Nemo, they all very different films, and their soundtracks are there to support them, they were not meant to be alike, and I doubt that there was anything but a well thought out decision on each title of how they should do just that:support the film.

That is a great point, and I still need to be reminded of this on occasion since I sometimes just view a track from the perspective of this thread which is a mistake when wanting to view the whole picture so to speak I remember reading that the UP sound design was purposely a bit laid back as the goal was to keep the focus on the characters. I would say in that sense that it very much succeeded. Wall E is similar I am sure.........I need to revisit both of these and not listen to them with "ear candy" in mind so much.

Nine (DTS-HD MA 5.1) - Tier 0, just shy of reference

Speaking of balanced, I am very impressed so far (almost done) with Nine. No LFE's here, at least not the usual kind. The numbers are very enveloping and really places the viewer in the midst of the performances. Now, I don't know if that is truly accurate since I would imagine the viewer in the audience, not in the middle of the performance.

Still, one can't help but enjoy the immersion. The song involving the tambourines was just incredible and was a sonic treat. The way in which each sound "attacked" the viewer/listener had acute precision. Dialogue, even with the faux-Italian accents, are always clear and discernible. Ambient sounds were casual and not predictable.

The sound design can potentially be dinged for not having the same intensity outside of the performances, but I believe it shows accuracy. Still, the numerous scenes that do limit the aural direction to the fronts probably keeps this title at high Tier 0.

I'd be curious to hear what you think of "Up" after hearing it from a different perspective. I rated it reference way back when due to it's attention to detail and realism factor. (It also has a couple of kick butt sequences audio-wise) To me, those are just as important if not more so than in your face bombastic, shake the couch stuff. I love those things, don't get me wrong. It's just that I value other elements more.

I completely agree with this, and I would think that most in this thread would as well.

One of the problems you run into, just like when discussing picture quality or the actual movie itself, is not knowing the intent of the director. Was the track mixed to the Bluray the way it was supposed to be? Was it unsupervised by the director, leaving the mixer to do as he pleased? Without actually knowing if the track is accurate (what the director did in the theatrical mix), speculation is all that's left.

Was the track supposed to sound laid back, or not? LFE heavy, or a little subdued? Were the surrounds supposed to be more active, because they were in the theater? Without this info from an article by the director or someone who worked on that area of a particular film, I don't know how we'd know how to score a movie any other way than what we know as our own preferences.

Saving Private Ryan (DTS-HD MA) Reference

I can't think of one other film that moves me as much as this one. It's one of my favorites and I have been eagerly awaiting it's high def debut. A perfect film from my point of view. The two bookend battles (Omaha and Ramelle) are obvious demo material. If you've heard the DTS track on DVD, prepare to be even more moved.



Battle For Terra (PCM 5.1) Reference

I totally overlooked this one until I saw a recommendation for it over in the subwoofer forum. It did not disappoint. A very rich, dynamic track full of LFE, demonstrating both low and mid bass quite frequently. Surrounds engaged the entire time. For a non-mainstream animated film, I was ecstatic at the outcome.

To show off the HT, loud with good use of surrounds is what gives the 'wow' effect to the untrained ear!

Hey, I love it!

^ I actually thought HB2, TF2, and Salvation were excellent tracks...not just loud and busy.

I will report back and I am curious to listen to it again......love the movie. I dont think my tier 1 rating will change since for purposes of this thread (to my ears at least) it just does not have the ear candy of most tier 0 and reference titles as far as what personally impresses me commonly, but I am going to view it without this thread in mind which should give me a better appreciation for it. I will say if I was rating UP with "how well did it support the actual film" in mind it would be a clear reference vote IMO, but again I dont see that as being our purpose here. I do admire that you have such a well rounded appreciation for audio though.........I have become more like that over the years, but hope I can continue in that direction and still improve upon my appreciation diversity so to speak



I agree and director intent is really not a factor for purposes of this thread anyway as far as how I perceive what we are doing here (similar to the PQ thread). So judging a track by our preferences (like you say) is what we have to go by in my mind as well.

^ I find it an interesting point since it gives obviously intentionally degraded/altered tracks (Black Dynamite, for example) the shaft, even though they may have been exactly what was intended. But, judging by what we like and want in a track is the only way to maintain some type of standard scoring system.

The moment we start taking "other things" into consideration, scores will be all over the place for the same movie.

I hear you and agree. Just the nature of the beast I suppose as far as this thread and the PQ thread go.

Personally, I love the soundtrack for Up. It is subtle throughout most of the film when the characters are telling the story, and it picks up and becomes more prominent when the soundtrack tells the story (like during the opening montage of Carl and Ellie). Giacchino didn't win the Oscar for nothing...he is an excellent composer for TV/Film lately (Star Trek, Lost, Up, etc.). Dialog is crisp and clear on my system and the recording of Ed Asner is perfect, IMO, and really makes you think he *is* Carl. While the action sequences do not present the sonic bombardment of something like The Incredibles, this is an old man fighting against another old man and a bunch of talking dogs...not a bunch of super heroes with other worldly powers. I think the sound design is appropriate in that aspect.

I think it's one of my favorite soundtracks overall, you will definitely appreciate it more if you just try to watch it with the movie and not compare it to other top names in this thread.

That is the plan for my next viewing (Wall E as well)

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN: REFERENCE

I expected that it would and it didn't disappoint. I must say, while the LFE is definitely there, it does seem a little less than expected, however it's very good and very clean. In fact "clean" describes this track all the way through. Amazing that the mix allowed the dialog to be clear and precise, even during the action moments. There were never any moments where it felt unbalanced.

Lots of surround activity as you'd expect during the action scenes, but plenty of small surround activity during the non-action sequence with a fully engaged surroundfield.

And they are all over as it is, I mean we don't see a ref vote and the Tier4 for the same movie, but a tier or two difference has been observed quiet a bit, and it is because there isn't any standard scoring among the posters. I would say there are some overlaps, but I think most poster show individuality with their scoring and how they arrive to that score. I think that's what makes this thread great and quiet successful IMO. as always YMMV.

When I'm scoring a track, its all about whats happening on screen. If it can make me think "wow, thats a really interesting/amazing way to sonically portray that scene" then sure, ANY movie is in contention for a reference vote from me.

I vote for Lord of the rings on DVD extended editions (LOTR EE) I have heard the blur ray but it wasn't extended, it's the same audio though. It's just straight up fantastic audio quality, and there is alot of action for all of the speakers; meaning that you're hearing sound everywhere and that it's very very good sound.

DTS 5.1

If you watch return of the king extended edition, part one, disc one, and spin it to 44 minutes and listen to Gandalf and Pippin walk into a room it's incredible, the doors close behind them and you can hear everything even the delicate latch locks from the medieval times closing.

Tier 0 reference (I'm not really sure exactly what reference means, my guess is that it is just like real life as though you were there?).

These are films in which you spin around and end up looking at the speakers because you think something has come into the room that isn't the film.

Minority Report - DTS-HD MA 5.1 - Tier 0

A pretty great mix here, and the sound effects of the futuristic tech seems spot on for whatever you're seeing on screen. As Bryan mentioned, most of the sound occupies the front soundstage with little surround activity aside from music and a few flyovers. When the sound picked up in the Lexus plant, it was natural and open, just as if you were in a huge factory. I thought the dialog was a tad low in a few scenes, but overall there was a nice balance. This mix does a lot right but misses the mark on the overall surround aspect, and as such doesn't quite make it into reference category for me.

sorry to quote something from the previous page, but wow i felt exactly the same when i was watching avatar, the scene with michelle in the hangar was one of the worst examples of out of place audio i've ever heard, and that's off of a crappy surround system without HD audio.

Saving Private Ryan (DTS-MA 5.1) - Reference

Agree with others comments.

K-19 The Widowmaker (TrueHD 5.1) - Tier 1

Sound level from the center channel is higher than most so had to turn volume down -2dB from where I usually watch. Surround level seemed more subdued until the sub is leaving the dock, then it picks up for the rest of the movie. LFE also becomes more prominent and very good at this point through the rest of the movie. No directionality. Impressive effects including noises the sub makes at different depths. Dialogue is clear throughout.

Whiteout (Dolby THD) Tier 2

Not much to talk about here everything was just OK. The opening plane crash scene was a shorter and lass exciting version of the Flight Of The Phoenix's fabled crash[sound wise].


The Hurt Locker (DTS HD MA) Tier 1

Well the opening here is one awesome kaboom. Playing this after Avatar, will leave you even further is suspense of what happened to that track. But in any case the track does take a backseat a bit after that opening, and let you concentrate on the characters instead. Still there are plenty to admire here, and overall it was well executed.It was quiet a bit hot though. A good 4-5 db louder then most movie I encountered, regardless of the encode. It was on par with Cloverfield as far as the overall volume, which is loud no doubt. So depending on you calibration and listening habits one might wanna be cautious to crank this baby up at the beginning.

Doctor Zhivago (DTS-MA 5.1) - Tier 3

This was a big disappointment for me in the audio dept. Dialogue was clear throughout. It was harsh sounding at times but not tinny. The sound level of the center channel was normal at times of dialogue and then very loud at times with music and some effects. At times I found this annoying. I didn't appreciate any surround use, not even during the music. No significant directionality between the fronts. Effects were unnatural sounding. No LFE to speak of.

Was there sufficient LFE?

The Hurt Locker (DTS MA), Tier 0

I pretty much agree with what Hun said a couple of posts up, except if we had a Tier between 0 and 1, that's where I'd put it. Loud track, but with very intelligible dialog, and has some really good dynamics to it. Explosions and gunfire were startling at times, though there's not a constant barrage of those throughout the film, so when they happen it's quite noticeable. Off topic, but I thought it was an excellent movie. I liked it much more than I expected.