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NEW Audio Tier Thread - Page 91

post #2701 of 3003
11/6/11 at 6:40pm
Thread Starter 
It's been a long time since I checked in . . . it's been a very busy past few months.

In August, we moved to a new house, had a minivan transmission kick the bucket, and welcomed a new baby . . . all in the same week. (That wasn't planned.)

It took a while to get the HT hooked up. Then I've had to travel nearly every week since mid-September. So it felt really good to sit down last weekend and enjoy a few movies. I had nearly forgotten how much I enjoy this hobby.


Fast and Furious (DTS-HD MA 5.1) - Tier 0

Terrific surround sound action and nicely detailed with vrooming cars of all shapes and sizes. I couldn't identify a car based on its engine sound to save my life, but I assume the sound design team did their homework and had a good time putting this mix together. Great bass at times, not really reference level but this was a very enjoyable track nonetheless. Hopefully I'll get to "Fast Five" by the end of the year.


Cars 2 (DTS-HD MA 7.1) - Reference

This is easily the best Pixar track since "Ratatouille" in 2007. I echo all of Maestro J's positive comments about the mix: it really is remarkably detailed and quite immersive throughout the entire running time, probably the "busiest" soundtrack to an animated movie I've ever heard. I didn't have any problems with the LFE: it's not "Jurassic Park"- or "Transformers"-level, but I thought it was just right for the material.

I've been a bit disappointed in the Pixar mixes since "Ratatouille." They've always sounded anemic in several spots to me. But I had no quibbles whatsoever with the audio presentation here. It actually made the movie a bit more fun to watch.
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post #2702 of 3003
11/6/11 at 10:00pm
Just picked up the Jurassic Park trilogy and after reading some of the reviews, I am looking forward to watching these movies over the next couple of days.
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post #2703 of 3003
11/7/11 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Beckman View Post

It's been a long time since I checked in . . . it's been a very busy past few months.

In August, we moved to a new house, had a minivan transmission kick the bucket, and welcomed a new baby . . . all in the same week. (That wasn't planned.)

It took a while to get the HT hooked up. Then I've had to travel nearly every week since mid-September. So it felt really good to sit down last weekend and enjoy a few movies. I had nearly forgotten how much I enjoy this hobby.


Welcome back Bryan, congrats on the new baby.
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post #2704 of 3003
11/9/11 at 4:42am
I just watched King Kong, what a soundtrack, but I have a minor issue. I usually watch movies at -20db but at this level I found the audio to be a little light on to what I am used too. I watched the 5.1 DTS MA track and checked my settings 3 times to make sure I hadn't done anything silly. I turned it up to -15db and settled on that. It's very strange for me to have to turn the volume up on my system and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience with the bluray?
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post #2705 of 3003
11/12/11 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggoo View Post

I just watched King Kong, what a soundtrack, but I have a minor issue. I usually watch movies at -20db but at this level I found the audio to be a little light on to what I am used too. I watched the 5.1 DTS MA track and checked my settings 3 times to make sure I hadn't done anything silly. I turned it up to -15db and settled on that. It's very strange for me to have to turn the volume up on my system and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience with the bluray?

You expect that every movie mixed at the same exact levels? While there are standards that most mixer/recorder practices, a few db deviation hardly needs to worry about.
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post #2706 of 3003
11/13/11 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggoo View Post

I just watched King Kong, what a soundtrack, but I have a minor issue. I usually watch movies at -20db but at this level I found the audio to be a little light on to what I am used too. I watched the 5.1 DTS MA track and checked my settings 3 times to make sure I hadn't done anything silly. I turned it up to -15db and settled on that. It's very strange for me to have to turn the volume up on my system and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience with the bluray?

Did you check the dialog norm setting?

From where you ended up, it sounds like there is a +4 DN setting on the track.
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post #2707 of 3003
11/13/11 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


Did you check the dialog norm setting?

From where you ended up, it sounds like there is a +4 DN setting on the track.

It might also be displayed as -27 on your receiver... 4 db lower than a -31 dialog norm which represents a 0 dB drop.

But that said, many discs have a dialog norm value of -27, so maybe that King Kong disc is more like a -24
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post #2708 of 3003
11/13/11 at 3:28pm
HP Deathly Hallows: Part 2 - REFERENCE

An amazing soundtrack that's even better than the first film. The extended Hogwarts battle is amazingly dynamic with relentless surround activity. The LFE hits hard and deep.

A fitting soundtrack for a finale to a great film series!
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post #2709 of 3003
11/13/11 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizman! View Post

It might also be displayed as -27 on your receiver... 4 db lower than a -31 dialog norm which represents a 0 dB drop.

But that said, many discs have a dialog norm value of -27, so maybe that King Kong disc is more like a -24

Dialnorm is rarely used on DTS HD MA tracks. Other then the Wal-Mart SE of Transformers 2, I can't think of any titles that do, but I'm sure some maybe out there.
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post #2710 of 3003
11/13/11 at 10:40pm
HP Deathly Hollows 2 (DTS HD MA) Tier 0

I thought it was very good indeed, excellent use of surrounds, and fine detail all around. Bass was a little tamer compared to part 4 and 5 and so is dynamics. Dialog, effects and music all came out with excellent balance and clarity.
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post #2711 of 3003
11/14/11 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Beckman View Post

It's been a long time since I checked in . . . it's been a very busy past few months.



Cars 2 (DTS-HD MA 7.1) - Reference

This is easily the best Pixar track since "Ratatouille" in 2007. I echo all of Maestro J's positive comments about the mix: it really is remarkably detailed and quite immersive throughout the entire running time, probably the "busiest" soundtrack to an animated movie I've ever heard. I didn't have any problems with the LFE: it's not "Jurassic Park"- or "Transformers"-level, but I thought it was just right for the material.

I've been a bit disappointed in the Pixar mixes since "Ratatouille." They've always sounded anemic in several spots to me. But I had no quibbles whatsoever with the audio presentation here. It actually made the movie a bit more fun to watch.

Cars 2 (DTS-HD MA 7.1)

Just watched it this weekend. Did not find much too exciting in this mix. Not much LFE, and a few gimmicky surround moments (like champagne corks popping behind). Otherwise, I found this as disappointing as most of the other recent Pixar films. Too subdued all around. What was there, whether LFE or surround material, is all too brief. It hits quickly, and its over in a millisecond. Its as if Pixar is afraid to be like DreamWorks and does not want to be seen as over the top in the sound department (i.e, Kung Fu Panda). But Cars 2 is a James Bondish over the top cartoon -- and it deserved over the top sound treatment. It was not there, not even close.

The days when Pixar films wowed for sound (Finding Nemo; Incredibles) -- seems to sadly be over. The biggest wow moment is probably the fireworks that start every Pixar/Disney blu-ray. Before the actual film.

Tier 1 to maybe Tier 0.

In my opinion this isn't close to Ratatouille. I can think of several moments in Ratatouille that stand out -- such as the lightning on the roof scene. The rats in the water tunnel and going down the water fall in that tunnel. The rat on the cart going through the kitchen/restaurant. The shot gun blasts.

There are no such memorable moments in Cars 2. Oh, another car sound going over my head. Yawn.
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post #2712 of 3003
11/14/11 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post


Dialnorm is rarely used on DTS HD MA tracks. Other then the Wal-Mart SE of Transformers 2, I can't think of any titles that do, but I'm sure some maybe out there.

To be precise, it exists on every track.....

You can't technically turn it off.

However, the default value on DTS encoders is -31, whereas on Dolby encoders the default value is at -27.
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post #2713 of 3003
11/14/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

To be precise, it exists on every track.....

You can't technically turn it off.

However, the default value on DTS encoders is -31, whereas on Dolby encoders the default value is at -27.

Right, that's what I meant.
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post #2714 of 3003
11/14/11 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


Did you check the dialog norm setting?

From where you ended up, it sounds like there is a +4 DN setting on the track.

Hi FM

I have noticed the dialog norm settings display on my receiver at the beginning of the tracks, at various times I have noticed a +4 setting read out on my display. I have never really paid much attention to it. This may be the reason, I will have to test it again. What are these settings supposed to achieve and how do you adjust it?
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post #2715 of 3003
11/16/11 at 4:51pm
Maggoo,

You should give Serenity a shot. I am sure you will be forced to turn down the volume.
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post #2716 of 3003
11/16/11 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggoo View Post

Hi FM

I have noticed the dialog norm settings display on my receiver at the beginning of the tracks, at various times I have noticed a +4 setting read out on my display. I have never really paid much attention to it. This may be the reason, I will have to test it again. What are these settings supposed to achieve and how do you adjust it?

Dialnorm is not user adjustable or defeat able, it is simply a metadata embedded in the track that tells your decoder how much adjustment it will need to perform during decoding. FYI The same thing would be done if the decoding happens inside the player.
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post #2717 of 3003
11/16/11 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post


Dialnorm is not user adjustable or defeat able, it is simply a metadata embedded in the track that tells your decoder how much adjustment it will need to perform during decoding. FYI The same thing would be done if the decoding happens inside the player.

However, you can adjust the volume based on the value.

However, if you are using a THX receiver, you shouldn't have to do anything.
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post #2718 of 3003
11/16/11 at 11:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

However, you can adjust the volume based on the value.

He doesn't like to do that, which is what prompted his original post.
Quote:
However, if you are using a THX receiver, you shouldn't have to do anything.

Yeah I know, one feature of a THX processor that comes handy, so I don't have to compensate for DTS tracks.
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post #2719 of 3003
11/16/11 at 11:17pm
Cars 2 (DTS HD MA) Tier 0

I thought this was fun, much like the movie was, yes the track wasn't quiet like The Incredibles , but it certainly delivered on many aspects. I did notice that music was favored over effects in some places, and dynamics in general were short cut, especially when LFE were concerned, the first Cars had some much beefier scenes, it also featured quiet dialog driven ones. Not much of that here, this soundtrack was busy, and utilized all speakers quiet often. As usual dialog was top notch, and sound design was equally good, for the most part. Excellent detail too. FYI the 7.1 track is not the default one, at least it wasn't in my case.
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post #2720 of 3003
11/22/11 at 3:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


However, you can adjust the volume based on the value.

However, if you are using a THX receiver, you shouldn't have to do anything.

Thanks for the info FM & Hun.
I do have a THX receiver and usually use THX Ultra 2 as the listening mode for 5.1 sources. For 7.1 tracks I just use straight decode.
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post #2721 of 3003
11/22/11 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggoo View Post

Thanks for the info FM & Hun.
I do have a THX receiver and usually use THX Ultra 2 as the listening mode for 5.1 sources. For 7.1 tracks I just use straight decode.

Just to be clear you don't have to engage the any THX features for the DTS track compensation, it is automatic.
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post #2722 of 3003
11/22/11 at 4:42pm
The Lion King (DTS-HD MA 7.1) - Tier 3

The overall sound is a bit "sterile" and brittle. Low bass impact is almost totally missing, especially when compared to the Home Theater Mix on the DVD. In some scenes the lack of low bass impact makes no sense with the action on the screen. For example, in the opening sequence, the elephants' footsteps have no impact at all (might as well be hamsters marching!). Also, at the beginning of the stampede scene where Simba is looking at the rocks bouncing around on the ground, there is almost no bass to give you the feeling that the ground is shaking.

Despite the higher PQ, the Lion King on BD is a less enjoyable experience overall than on DVD. I wish the BD had included the audio mix (in English) that was available on the DVD. I want my money back.

For reference, my sound system is no slouch; Anthem processor, Parasound amp, Salk speakers, SVS powered sub.
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post #2723 of 3003
11/22/11 at 6:03pm
Super 8 (Dolby THD 7.1) Tier 0

This is tremendous track when it comes bass and sheer dynamics, the train wreck scene is just amazing. So why not reference? Well the dialog was less then great, especially the kid's part. The recordings more often then not betrayed their origins, and sometimes mixed to loud to compete with effects and music, and I'm not talking about action scenes. The first school scene is a perfect example of this. Also surround were really only used for directional effects, and not very well for ambiance. While this was a minor issue, together with the dialog issues it was enough to bring it down from the top spot.Bass was over the top, even after I lowered the sub output at the pre-amp by 3db[which was correctly calibrated before that] the bass sounded a bit loud compared to the rest of the elements, and observed the clipping light came on, on one of my pro amps[1200w] and heard bottoming out as well. This was at levels -7db below reference, so the entire track is hot for sure. I'm not complaining about this BTW, just making and observation, so proceed with caution on this one.
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post #2724 of 3003
11/22/11 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

The Lion King (DTS-HD MA 7.1) - Tier 3

The overall sound is a bit "sterile" and brittle. Low bass impact is almost totally missing, especially when compared to the Home Theater Mix on the DVD. In some scenes the lack of low bass impact makes no sense with the action on the screen. For example, in the opening sequence, the elephants' footsteps have no impact at all (might as well be hamsters marching!). Also, at the beginning of the stampede scene where Simba is looking at the rocks bouncing around on the ground, the is almost no bass to give you the feeling that the ground is shaking.

Despite the higher PQ, the Lion King on BD is a less enjoyable experience overall than on DVD. I wish the BD had included the audio mix (in English) that was available on the DVD. I want my money back.

For reference, my sound system is no slouch; Anthem processor, Parasound amp, Salk speakers, SVS powered sub.

This is a good example that the mix is more important then the codec.
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post #2725 of 3003
11/23/11 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Super 8 (Dolby THD 7.1) Tier 0

This is tremendous track when it comes bass and sheer dynamics, the train wreck scene is just amazing. So why not reference? Well the dialog was less then great, especially the kid's part. The recordings more often then not betrayed their origins, and sometimes mixed to loud to compete with effects and music, and I'm not talking about action scenes. The first school scene is a perfect example of this. Also surround were really only used for directional effects, and not very well for ambiance. While this was a minor issue, together with the dialog issues it was enough to bring it down from the top spot.Bass was over the top, even after I lowered the sub output at the pre-amp by 3db[which was correctly calibrated before that] the bass sounded a bit loud compared to the rest of the elements, and observed the clipping light came on, on one of my pro amps[1200w] and heard bottoming out as well. This was at levels -7db below reference, so the entire track is hot for sure. I'm not complaining about this BTW, just making and observation, so proceed with caution on this one.

With the exception of the LFE being over the top (I'll explain), I could have written this myself, word for word. The dialog in the first school scene really drew attention to itself, and the surrounds did not match the rest of the stellar track. Dynamics through the roof, though.

About the LFE, I actually had to turn mine up about 4db. However, I did some tinkering with my subs just before we started the movie and I think I may have a phase issue or something because I didn't do any measurements afterwards. We were getting slammed by the LFE and the seats were rumbling like the butt kickers were on (I left them off), but it wasn't as loud as it should have been. The pressure in the room was absolutely crazy. I'm going to recalibrate the subs and make sure there's no phase or null issues and try it again.
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post #2726 of 3003
11/23/11 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

this is a good example that the mix is more important then the codec.

+1
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post #2727 of 3003
11/23/11 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

The Lion King (DTS-HD MA 7.1) - Tier 3

The overall sound is a bit "sterile" and brittle. Low bass impact is almost totally missing, especially when compared to the Home Theater Mix on the DVD. In some scenes the lack of low bass impact makes no sense with the action on the screen. For example, in the opening sequence, the elephants' footsteps have no impact at all (might as well be hamsters marching!). Also, at the beginning of the stampede scene where Simba is looking at the rocks bouncing around on the ground, there is almost no bass to give you the feeling that the ground is shaking.

Despite the higher PQ, the Lion King on BD is a less enjoyable experience overall than on DVD. I wish the BD had included the audio mix (in English) that was available on the DVD. I want my money back.

same here. The blu-ray should not be released at all due to the garbage sound quality.

My equipments are as follows:

Anthem MRX-700
PSB Century 300i
PSB Image C5
PSB Subseries 300
Pioneer BDP-53FD

room EQ by ARC and bass EQ by DSPeaker Antimode 8033s
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post #2728 of 3003
11/23/11 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Super 8 (Dolby THD 7.1) Tier 0

This is tremendous track when it comes bass and sheer dynamics, the train wreck scene is just amazing. So why not reference? Well the dialog was less then great, especially the kid's part. The recordings more often then not betrayed their origins, and sometimes mixed to loud to compete with effects and music, and I'm not talking about action scenes. The first school scene is a perfect example of this. Also surround were really only used for directional effects, and not very well for ambiance. While this was a minor issue, together with the dialog issues it was enough to bring it down from the top spot.Bass was over the top, even after I lowered the sub output at the pre-amp by 3db[which was correctly calibrated before that] the bass sounded a bit loud compared to the rest of the elements, and observed the clipping light came on, on one of my pro amps[1200w] and heard bottoming out as well. This was at levels -7db below reference, so the entire track is hot for sure. I'm not complaining about this BTW, just making and observation, so proceed with caution on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

With the exception of the LFE being over the top (I'll explain), I could have written this myself, word for word. The dialog in the first school scene really drew attention to itself, and the surrounds did not match the rest of the stellar track. Dynamics through the roof, though.

About the LFE, I actually had to turn mine up about 4db. However, I did some tinkering with my subs just before we started the movie and I think I may have a phase issue or something because I didn't do any measurements afterwards. We were getting slammed by the LFE and the seats were rumbling like the butt kickers were on (I left them off), but it wasn't as loud as it should have been. The pressure in the room was absolutely crazy. I'm going to recalibrate the subs and make sure there's no phase or null issues and try it again.

Oooh, nice reviews guys, looking forward to this. Too bad about the surrounds but sounds like a fun track. I bought this yesterday but have not had time to test this yet.
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post #2729 of 3003
11/23/11 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

The Lion King (DTS-HD MA 7.1) - Tier 3

The overall sound is a bit "sterile" and brittle. Low bass impact is almost totally missing, especially when compared to the Home Theater Mix on the DVD. In some scenes the lack of low bass impact makes no sense with the action on the screen. For example, in the opening sequence, the elephants' footsteps have no impact at all (might as well be hamsters marching!). Also, at the beginning of the stampede scene where Simba is looking at the rocks bouncing around on the ground, there is almost no bass to give you the feeling that the ground is shaking.

Despite the higher PQ, the Lion King on BD is a less enjoyable experience overall than on DVD. I wish the BD had included the audio mix (in English) that was available on the DVD. I want my money back.

For reference, my sound system is no slouch; Anthem processor, Parasound amp, Salk speakers, SVS powered sub.

This is odd--I feel the same exact way about Beauty and the Beast but thought Lion King (at least by comparison) had stellar (eh.. maybe "pretty decent") bass and overall sound quality. B&B on the other hand--it seriously feels like the LFE is just plain turned off. Not even exaggerating. I wonder if Disney is shipping out faulty discs? So some people get good discs and others don't? Wouldn't be the first time. (I'm looking at you, Sin City)
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post #2730 of 3003
11/23/11 at 6:55pm
that is very plausible. I have no problem with Beauty and the Beast (bought at Amazon.com). However, in terms of The Lion King, I've tried two discs (one bought at Futureshop physical store, another from Amazon.com) they are both identical in (the lack of) quality.
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