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Paradigm Sub 1 and Sub 2 - Page 48

post #1411 of 1444
3/4/13 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studlygoorite View Post

Well it's the best I have had so far, excellent for movies but I think I need a couple of those HSU Mid Bass Modules for just a little more kick for loud music.

John
Your house is going to run out of current at some point eek.gif
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post #1412 of 1444
3/6/13 at 9:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Your house is going to run out of current at some point eek.gif

agreed. you might need a small nuclear reactor in your back yard. lol!
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post #1413 of 1444
3/7/13 at 5:32am
As I grew I had to rewire everything, 6 dedicated 120v lines and a 240v for the sub because I could turn up my system and watch the incoming current go from 120v down to 107v and at 107v everything would cut out.
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post #1414 of 1444
3/11/13 at 7:51am
Hi Popalock,


"Is your goal performance or aesthetics? I ask for two reasons. 1) In your below comment you stated that they "wish they came in Rosenut." 2) When you finish your basement, are you going to be implementing an acoustically transparent screen to conceal your L/C/R and Sub(s)??"

I like to see my equipment. They will be visible and not behind a screen (I know I could get a bigger screen if I hid them, but 120" is perfect for now).


"Timestamp! 14 Feb 2013.
The Paradigm rep would say that… This very general statement is unsettling and I would have to strongly disagree. While I understand that ego stroking a new owner of your equipment is in order, his comment makes me put his credibility in question. On the other hand, if one knows their audience will accept statements such as these with a smile and no other questions, why not.

Can I ask what the appeal of the Sub 1 & 2 was for you in particular? They are, without question, true pieces of art with great performance for a small footprint. Do most owners buy these subs because the research they conduct puts them the spotlight of being the best?"


I understand the rep is making me feel good.... I posted statement just to show excitement.

DIY, Internet Direct or Brick & Mortar Options

I didn't want to go the DIY route because, I don't have the confidence I would have made the damn things perfect (I am anal) and any imperfection or issue would have bothered me). I also did not want huge appliances in the room that weren't the same fit and finish as my gear (I could be off in my opinion), plus I didn't want to have to buy an outside bass processor and fiddle with that as it seemed like it would be getting more complex. I understand that 2 or 4 18' subs running on pro amps would be even or insane.

Internet Direct
My friend that helped me run two addition 20 amp lines for my temporary theater has a SVS PC13 Ultra and it sounded great, I actually suggested he look at SVS when he was considering subs on a "bang for the buck premise" (also got him to buy an Emotiva Amp as well). He was immediately awe struck when we fired my sub up and played it (I am still waiting for my second sub as Paradigm was back ordered). The PB13-ULTRA was a consideration, but I am not a fan of ported subs and I also liked the room correction options of the Paradigm and the SVS unit is huge! This was a tough call.

Brick & Mortar
I was down to JL Audio and Paradigm. It was very frustrating for me as many dealers in my area don't have the "big boys" on display for demonstrations (both JL and Paradigm), I drove and called everywhere in a 60-75 mile radius. I was able to hear dual JL Fathom F113s and I honestly wasn't very impressed,. It could have been the room or the content etc, but it wasn't going to be enough for me and certainly didn't make me want to pull my wallet out. I believe that the F212 is likely a huge step up in performance but I wanted 2 and was uncertain if I could have gotten an equivalent deal that I got on the Paradigms.

I went with the Sub-2s (even over the sub-15s which I could have gotten and even better deal on and in Rosenut), because the product seemed very well reviewed, and bench tests showed it to be a strong performer. I believe in Anthem's room correction software, and PBK seemed like a good choice. They look great. and should not be fussy and they should be reliable. The sound and speed appears to compliment my B&Ws nicely.

Equally important, I have a local dealer that supports me and is there for set-up and any issues I may have (I have purchased an Anthem AVM50V 3D, Peachtree Doc, Paradigm Studio 10s and center in another room from him) and takes care of my friends as well (he has now gotten the business of 3 of my friends). I want to keep good dealers in business. He gives me a fair price (comfortably below List Price) and he still makes money.

There are better commercial options out there, most of which would have been more money, but I think I did the best for me for what I was willing to spend, so they were the "best for me". Maybe the Seaton Submersive would have been a better choice etc, but I am happy and don't see a need to upgrade subs anymore. The vibrations, rattles etc in the house from just one makes me think I shouldn't push it anymore wink.gif
Edited by Screamingelvises - 3/11/13 at 7:57am
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post #1415 of 1444
3/18/13 at 7:39am
Funk Audio might have something that might best the SUB2. FA 18.2. Looks fantastic and it's built in Canada! Comes is two formats, Power Level One and Power Level Two. Not sure what was tested and what output ratings for each.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1283555/funky-waves-audio-official-thread-prebuilt-and-custom-subs/420

Pre-review:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/funk-audio-18.2

Output ratings
10 hz 31.6% 99.5 dB
12.5 hz 28.2% 106.7 dB
16 hz 22.4% 111.3 dB
20 hz 17.8% 113.7 dB
25 hz 8.9% 116.6 dB
32 hz 5.0% 119.6 dB
40 hz 10.0% 122.3 dB
50 hz 6.3% 125.3 dB
63 hz 4.4% 127.7 dB
80 hz 1.99% 128.8 dB
100 hz nill 130.4 dB
125 hz nill 131.4 dB
160 hz nill 131.2 dB
200 hz nill 130.3 dB
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post #1416 of 1444
3/18/13 at 5:20pm
power level one is 10kW and power level 2 is 20kW. posting funk audio stuff on paradigms thread might upset some peeps though, but kudos for balling up. i like peoples with guts.
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post #1417 of 1444
3/19/13 at 3:56am
My intent was not to get SUB2 owners upset. I'm saving for a SUB2. Just happy to see another Canadian company is producing some very serious competition.

SUB2 has been out for about 3-4 years. Has anyone heard of any changes? Maybe a more powerful amp? Seems like the drivers could handle more power.
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post #1418 of 1444
3/19/13 at 7:53am
I myself would have loved to see a 12" version of the sub 2, maybe called a Sub 3?! But what I do I know. I am an amateur. It would have been big but maybe with all that power it could have dug deeper with more SPL while still being extremely clean.
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post #1419 of 1444
3/19/13 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

I myself would have loved to see a 12" version of the sub 2, maybe called a Sub 3?! But what I do I know. I am an amateur. It would have been big but maybe with all that power it could have dug deeper with more SPL while still being extremely clean.

Funny, thinking the same about 12" drivers. Easily would be over 300 lbs and about a third bigger!
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post #1420 of 1444
3/20/13 at 1:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDVidGuy View Post

My intent was not to get SUB2 owners upset. I'm saving for a SUB2. Just happy to see another Canadian company is producing some very serious competition.

SUB2 has been out for about 3-4 years. Has anyone heard of any changes? Maybe a more powerful amp? Seems like the drivers could handle more power.

no worried mate. just an observation. i heard the 18.2 a while back, it's scary.
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post #1421 of 1444
3/29/13 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDVidGuy View Post

Funny, thinking the same about 12" drivers. Easily would be over 300 lbs and about a third bigger!

I'd make the room! ;-) All this talk about subs makes me wanna get another. That's one thing I can't do at the moment.
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post #1422 of 1444
3/29/13 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDVidGuy View Post

Maybe a more powerful amp? Seems like the drivers could handle more power.

More power from where? 4500W is already maxed out 20A 230V circuit which most people don't even have.
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post #1423 of 1444
3/29/13 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

I have mine hooked up to a 120. If I want a 220 I need to get a new line from the street and a new box or at least a sub panel. Eventually when I remodel the room I would like to add a 220. As of now I am sharing a circuit with the lights and god knows what else. When I plug the Sub 2 in, the lights flicker and when it starts to hit hard they will continue to flicker. Ai rep told me that the 200 will hit harder lower but who really knows.

Are you sure about needing a new line from the street ? Most panels even real old ones have 220v to the panel. You just need to get the feed from both legs.
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post #1424 of 1444
3/30/13 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Are you sure about needing a new line from the street ? Most panels even real old ones have 220v to the panel. You just need to get the feed from both legs.

Yeah, I only have a 100 amp service and my whole box is filled. I'm torn as to what to do. I don't want to put a whole lot of money into this house because I don't know how long I will be here. But I also don't see myself getting a new house any time soon so upgrading the electric might be in my best interest. As for your comment about 220v service, I do have some 220v appliances but like I already mentioned the whole box is filled.
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post #1425 of 1444
3/30/13 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Are you sure about needing a new line from the street ? Most panels even real old ones have 220v to the panel. You just need to get the feed from both legs.

Unfortunately some houses are wired to capacity with no room for expansion. frown.gif Other houses are initially wired with a larger breaker box than needed with like 4-5 empty circuits for future expansion. Sounds like this is the first case. This is something else to check when getting a house because it can be expensive to have the work done if you think you'll needed it one day.
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post #1426 of 1444
3/30/13 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

Yeah, I only have a 100 amp service and my whole box is filled. I'm torn as to what to do. I don't want to put a whole lot of money into this house because I don't know how long I will be here. But I also don't see myself getting a new house any time soon so upgrading the electric might be in my best interest. As for your comment about 220v service, I do have some 220v appliances but like I already mentioned the whole box is filled.

This is only a suggestion. Especially since your looking for a cost effective way to get this done.
You can have an electrician load test all the 110v individual circuits and the total draw on the box. This can be easily done and not cost much.
Many times circuits to smaller areas might have a min amperage draw and they can be combined and not exceed 15amps.
This might free up two circuits and allow a 20 amp 220v breaker to be added.
Like said only a suggestion to enable your SUB 2 to be on 220v
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post #1427 of 1444
3/31/13 at 12:31pm
a
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post #1428 of 1444
3/31/13 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post


i know for sure that in car audio 6 8" woofers will out perform 1 15" woofer. its will be lower and tighter.



i know for sure that a single 15" subwoofer in car audio can hit over 170desibels. i have seen one guy with 8x10" subs and didnt even get over 150desibels. and 15" woofers are way lower the some 8".. doesn't matter how many u have.. the sound will allways be the same just bigger and louder.
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post #1429 of 1444
4/6/13 at 12:57pm
Question on PBK setup

After the PBK setup has been done, can you modify anything? For example, if PBK dropped / increased too much at a frequency range, could you modify the change?
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post #1430 of 1444
4/6/13 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDVidGuy View Post

Question on PBK setup

After the PBK setup has been done, can you modify anything? For example, if PBK dropped / increased too much at a frequency range, could you modify the change?


You could go into the Targets and make changes then reload your changes
I have never known PBK to make any changes that were not good. It concentrates on the peaks and dips.
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post #1431 of 1444
4/6/13 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWilsonoffic View Post

i know for sure that a single 15" subwoofer in car audio can hit over 170desibels. i have seen one guy with 8x10" subs and didnt even get over 150desibels. and 15" woofers are way lower the some 8".. doesn't matter how many u have.. the sound will allways be the same just bigger and louder.

A single 15" sub in a vehicle does not have to move much air to pressurize the inside of the auto.
Oe 15" sub is not as big and cannot move as much volume as the 6 10" woofers in a Sub 2 in a room.
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post #1432 of 1444
4/21/13 at 1:16pm
Hi has anyone got two sub 2's in their room?

I have one and have a chance of another at a good price. However my room is around 20 x 12 x 8 feet. I was wondering if 2 would be overkill for the room size.
Do they intergrate together well? Would be used with a D2V

thanks
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post #1433 of 1444
4/21/13 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cossie0 View Post

Hi has anyone got two sub 2's in their room?

I have one and have a chance of another at a good price. However my room is around 20 x 12 x 8 feet. I was wondering if 2 would be overkill for the room size.
Do they intergrate together well? Would be used with a D2V

thanks

I have a similar room size and a single Sub 1 is overkill for that space. tongue.gif
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post #1434 of 1444
4/21/13 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I have a similar room size and a single Sub 1 is overkill for that space. tongue.gif

There is no such thing as overkill. Just remember that you can always properly integrate any number of subs in your room and have a nicely balanced sound with virtually limitless headroom (in this case), however you can't turn up the volume for a sub that is running at or past its limits. Far better IMO to have 2 subs working at ~50% of their capacity than one running at ~80-90%.

Of course, this is without even going into the many benefits of dual subs.

If you can swing for another cossie0, I'd say go for it. If you have had dual subs in the past, you'll know the benefits already wink.gif
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post #1435 of 1444
4/21/13 at 9:55pm
Thanks for that Follz20. I have never had dual subs in the past so its completely unknown territory.
I would hate to get another one and find there is absolutely no difference and I could have spent the money elsewhere and gain a greater benefit. Hence the question.
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post #1436 of 1444
4/21/13 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Follz20 View Post

There is no such thing as overkill. Just remember that you can always properly integrate any number of subs in your room and have a nicely balanced sound with virtually limitless headroom (in this case), however you can't turn up the volume for a sub that is running at or past its limits. Far better IMO to have 2 subs working at ~50% of their capacity than one running at ~80-90%.

Of course, this is without even going into the many benefits of dual subs.

If you can swing for another cossie0, I'd say go for it. If you have had dual subs in the past, you'll know the benefits already wink.gif

I'll rephrase that. I have Sub 1 in a similar room size and it is not near 50% of it's capabilities, let alone 80-90%. I'm sure you'll can find someone here to agree with / justify any purchase you want to make.
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post #1437 of 1444
4/21/13 at 11:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cossie0 View Post

Thanks for that Follz20. I have never had dual subs in the past so its completely unknown territory.
I would hate to get another one and find there is absolutely no difference and I could have spent the money elsewhere and gain a greater benefit. Hence the question.

The benefits of multiple subs vs a singular sub are well documented. Very few who experience duals ever go back to a singular sub, even if it is beastly. I am certainly one of those people.

If you do get a second Sub 2 and integrate it properly, you'll certainly notice a much more balanced tonal quality to the bass and a larger 'sweet spot' across your listening area. With proper placement of both, PBK won't need to do so much EQ'ing (read: boosting) to get a flat response... YMMV of course.

IMO, with dual subs, to me, additional headroom is something that is incidental and by far the least beneficial aspect of having dual subs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I'll rephrase that. I have Sub 1 in a similar room size and it is not near 50% of it's capabilities, let alone 80-90%. I'm sure you'll can find someone here to agree with / justify any purchase you want to make.

No problems. My point was a very general one and not specifically pertaining to your sub or your setup.

However, just as another general point, I won't presume to think I know your listening habits, but if you watch your movies quite loud (maybe at -15, -10), there will be parts in bass-intensive movies where your Sub 1 will be working very hard trying to reproduce very dynamic bass peaks, especially if it is <20Hz. It really just boils down to physics.

Again, I don't presume to know your listening habits, but I can tell you from experience that is hard to know just how hard your singular sub is working until you either turn the volume up and you start hear compression/distortion or else you add another sub and see what difference that makes on some very taxing bass movies.

Of course, if you only listen to music and/or view movies at low volumes, disregard the above wink.gif

Cheers
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post #1438 of 1444
4/22/13 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Follz20 View Post

The benefits of multiple subs vs a singular sub are well documented. Very few who experience duals ever go back to a singular sub, even if it is beastly. I am certainly one of those people.

If you do get a second Sub 2 and integrate it properly, you'll certainly notice a much more balanced tonal quality to the bass and a larger 'sweet spot' across your listening area. With proper placement of both, PBK won't need to do so much EQ'ing (read: boosting) to get a flat response... YMMV of course.

IMO, with dual subs, to me, additional headroom is something that is incidental and by far the least beneficial aspect of having dual subs.
No problems. My point was a very general one and not specifically pertaining to your sub or your setup.

However, just as another general point, I won't presume to think I know your listening habits, but if you watch your movies quite loud (maybe at -15, -10), there will be parts in bass-intensive movies where your Sub 1 will be working very hard trying to reproduce very dynamic bass peaks, especially if it is <20Hz. It really just boils down to physics.

Again, I don't presume to know your listening habits, but I can tell you from experience that is hard to know just how hard your singular sub is working until you either turn the volume up and you start hear compression/distortion or else you add another sub and see what difference that makes on some very taxing bass movies.

Of course, if you only listen to music and/or view movies at low volumes, disregard the above wink.gif

Cheers

I'm going by what my sub was calibrated to in Anthem's ARC. It is recommend to attempt calibration at 50% sub volume to start with. At 50% volume Sub 1 produced a - 9 db correction in ARC, which I believe is the max correction allowed. I had to turn it down to 25-30% volume to produce a more reasonable correction. This tells me that the sub is capable of outputting far more bass than would be suitable for the room.

Since my room is similar in size to the original poster I believe a similar correction may apply. But that is impossible to know without seeing the same data for the room, accounting for placement, other items in the room and personal preference for copious amounts of bass. biggrin.gif
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post #1439 of 1444
4/22/13 at 3:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I'm going by what my sub was calibrated to in Anthem's ARC. It is recommend to attempt calibration at 50% sub volume to start with. At 50% volume Sub 1 produced a - 9 db correction in ARC, which I believe is the max correction allowed. I had to turn it down to 25-30% volume to produce a more reasonable correction. This tells me that the sub is capable of outputting far more bass than would be suitable for the room.

Since my room is similar in size to the original poster I believe a similar correction may apply. But that is impossible to know without seeing the same data for the room, accounting for placement, other items in the room and personal preference for copious amounts of bass. biggrin.gif

A subwoofer's gain knob is not indicative of the headroom it has available to it, rather it has to do with the amp's sensitivity to the input voltage from your AVR. Simply because a sub's gain is at ~30-50% does not mean it will not be driven beyond 30-50% of its max output ie. The gain on the back of the amp has nothing to do with the drivers volume limits.

Just as an example, many cheap subs have highly sensitive gain knobs, so when people run an automated calibration program, often 8 or 9 o'clock on the gain is enough to produce a passing/adequate result. Unfortunately, people correlate a sub's gain knob to its output capabilities, so you often hear people say, "I could never overdrive this thing, it's only at 30% of its max volume!", even if it's an 8" sealed sub sitting in a 6000cf^3 room.

Also, if you have highly efficient mains (say +95dB), you would have to increase the gain on your Sub 1 to compensate... but that doesn't mean your sub has lost any of its headroom.

FWIW.. wink.gif
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post #1440 of 1444
4/22/13 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

It is recommend to attempt calibration at 50% sub volume to start with. At 50% volume Sub 1 produced a - 9 db correction in ARC, which I believe is the max correction allowed. I had to turn it down to 25-30% volume to produce a more reasonable correction.

25-30% is absolutely normal and expected. Whoever said 50% is wrong.
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