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Paradigm Sub 1 and Sub 2 - Page 3

post #61 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixiu View Post

Just learned that I am 1 of 5 in the entire world that have placed an order for the Sub 2. They are telling me ships the week after New Year's (best case). I am not getting my hopes up.


I am very jealous... I would love a pair of those, I would imagine that would be enough for me in my extra large cave....
post #62 of 1511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixiu View Post

Just learned that I am 1 of 5 in the entire world that have placed an order for the Sub 2. They are telling me ships the week after New Year's (best case). I am not getting my hopes up.

Only 5 pre orders world wide, Paradigm better hope that info is wrong
post #63 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Only 5 pre orders world wide, Paradigm better hope that info is wrong

lol i would imagine he was one of the FIRST five to pre-order, but who knows.
post #64 of 1511
Thread Starter 
I'm looking at the Paradigm lne but really don't want the Anthem electronics [use Audio Control - same as Arcam and Onkyo pro - same as Integra].

Might have it figured out by CES...
post #65 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

I'm looking at the Paradigm lne but really don't want the Anthem electronics [use Audio Control - same as Arcam and Onkyo pro - same as Integra].

Might have it figured out by CES...

lol its not like you have to use Anthem with Paradigm. Use whatever you want.
post #66 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixiu View Post

Just learned that I am 1 of 5 in the entire world that have placed an order for the Sub 2. They are telling me ships the week after New Year's (best case). I am not getting my hopes up.

? you get ant tracking info yet?
post #67 of 1511
Waiting and waiting. I love Paradigm and Anthem product but their order fulfillment needs some work. Being a Lean Manufacturing expert I am thinking about going up there and helping them improve their operations...lol. Still waiting on an A2 amp as well to complete my system. Will report back once the Sub 2 arrives. Should get my A2 this week then need to hook up P5, A2, D2V, C5, S8's, etc. Sub 2 will be my last component to my masterpiece. Looking forward to it.
post #68 of 1511
Just ordered a Sub 1 in Piano black, should have it in about 10 days. My dealer couldn't confirm whether or not it comes with the PBK-1, however. Most press releases seem to claim it does.

I'm a little nervous ordering such an expensive sub without there even being any reviews for it out yet, but Paradigm has never let me down.
post #69 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

Just ordered a Sub 1 in Piano black, should have it in about 10 days. My dealer couldn't confirm whether or not it comes with the PBK-1, however. Most press releases seem to claim it does.

I'm a little nervous ordering such an expensive sub without there even being any reviews for it out yet, but Paradigm has never let me down.

It does come with PBK-1. For owners of Anthem processors with ARC, the ARC would be used instead of the PBK-1.

As a Anthem D2v owner, I wonder why I am paying for the PBK-1 when I don't need it.
post #70 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by netroamer View Post

As a Anthem D2v owner, I wonder why I am paying for the PBK-1 when I don't need it.

While Paradigm charges $299 for the PBK-1 as a standalone product, each unit probably costs them about $10 to make. You are just paying for their software development costs/R&D. They probably think that any customer paying $3k+ for a subwoofer might be miffed at being nickel-and-dimed for another $300 just to enable the sub to sound good in their room.

So I doubt you are really paying an extra $300 for something you don't need. Think of it as Paradigm throwing a bone to customers (like me) that don't already have ARC.

You could always Ebay the PBK-1 anyway.
post #71 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

You could always Ebay the PBK-1 anyway.

Even easier, maybe Paradigm should simply offer the sub with/without the PBK-1.
post #72 of 1511
Thread Starter 
I spent about 30 minutes at the Anthem/Paradigm room at CES [Venetian].

It was very impressive. The sub was clean and the SPL, though throttled back out respect to others, was more than enough to satisfy me.

However what impressed me most was the speed or decay of the bass. Very sharp and clean.

I was impressed. But keep in mind $7495 MSRP should impress...
post #73 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

I spent about 30 minutes at the Anthem/Paradigm room at CES [Venetian].

It was very impressive. The sub was clean and the SPL, though throttled back out respect to others, was more than enough to satisfy me.

However what impressed me most was the speed or decay of the bass. Very sharp and clean.

I was impressed. But keep in mind $7495 MSRP should impress...

I was in this room too for the demo twice. It bass was good but the sound was very bright and uncomfortable overall. Paradigm just cant make a speaker that peels the paint off the wall when played at reference levels. They talked about the design of the Sub 1 & 2 as if they were the ones who came up with the idea. If I am not mistaken Martin Logan beat them to the punch by about 8 years. But why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a bogus claim.
post #74 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewayz View Post

I was in this room too for the demo twice. It bass was good but the sound was very bright and uncomfortable overall. Paradigm just cant make a speaker that peels the paint off the wall when played at reference levels. They talked about the design of the Sub 1 & 2 as if they were the ones who came up with the idea. If I am not mistaken Martin Logan beat them to the punch by about 8 years.

Development of the Sub 1 and Sub 2 started around the time Paradigm was acquired by ShoreView Industries, the same company that owns Martin Logan. Sounds to me like they are just leveraging their technology portfolio.

If you think Paradigm's Signature Series sounds 'bright', Klipsch's horn-loaded tweeters must feel like a knife in your eardrums. Did they have the first reflection points treated in this room? Any speaker will sound bright when reflecting off a hard wall.
post #75 of 1511
Thread Starter 
Side & Phew, did not notice much acoustical treatment at all in the room. The subs did impress me [as some know I'm a JL AUDIO guy, not an employee mind you ] a great deal still. OMG here goes... I think I'd rather have 2 x SUB2's vs. 1 x G213 GOTHAM. However I'd rather have 2 x F212's or 4 x F113s than a single GOTHAM as well FWIW.

The Paradigm is classified as a "VALUE PROPOSAL". For the money spent I always thought there were a touch flat and not as full or rich sounding as others. NOW PLEASE NO FLAMERS since I did not say they sound bad at all just different.

Considering the cost not bad...
post #76 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewayz View Post

I was in this room too for the demo twice. It bass was good but the sound was very bright and uncomfortable overall. Paradigm just cant make a speaker that peels the paint off the wall when played at reference levels. They talked about the design of the Sub 1 & 2 as if they were the ones who came up with the idea. If I am not mistaken Martin Logan beat them to the punch by about 8 years. But why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a bogus claim.

Sounds like someone has a bone to pick... You hated the demo so much that you just had to go twice.
post #77 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

Sounds like someone has a bone to pick... You hated the demo so much that you just had to go twice.

I wasnt impresses with the demo so I have a bone to pick with Paradigm? BRAC you're an idiot. I went twice, yes. Once with some dealers friends and the other with a group of Asian gentleman who were our guests over CES. The room was most likely the problem but for anyone to say it was an impressive demo cannot be serious about quality sound. There were plenty of nice exhibits at CES, this wasn't one of them. Paradigm does make good mid-level gear. Their new sub will most likely be good performers in the market, but they have had 5 years to play catch up with JL and others so I'd hope they did their homework well as they had long enough to do it (and NO I am not a big JL supporter). And BRAC since you are so eager to try and disqualify my post, did you go to CES and hear this demo? If you didnt then please sit on the sidelines and watch the big boys play. If you did go, what was your take graduate?
post #78 of 1511
did JL Audio have a display? anything new?
post #79 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewayz View Post

I wasnt impresses with the demo so I have a bone to pick with Paradigm? BRAC you're an idiot. I went twice, yes. Once with some dealers friends and the other with a group of Asian gentleman who were our guests over CES. The room was most likely the problem but for anyone to say it was an impressive demo cannot be serious about quality sound. There were plenty of nice exhibits at CES, this wasn't one of them. Paradigm does make good mid-level gear. Their new sub will most likely be good performers in the market, but they have had 5 years to play catch up with JL and others so I'd hope they did their homework well as they had long enough to do it (and NO I am not a big JL supporter). And BRAC since you are so eager to try and disqualify my post, did you go to CES and hear this demo? If you didnt then please sit on the sidelines and watch the big boys play. If you did go, what was your take graduate?

I'm the idiot, but yet you're the one who's discounting Paradigm based on one poorly setup demo... I would say YOU are in the minority there buddy. Catch up to JL, in what way? Paradigm has always made great subs. And, what does this have to do with JL anyway??? I was only referring to the part of your post about Paradigm speakers "peeling paint" at reference volumes. Most speakers would have that same effect under those conditions.

Btw, how do I qualify to play with the big boys?
post #80 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by brac View Post

i'm the idiot, but yet you're the one who's discounting paradigm based on one poorly setup demo... I would say you are in the minority there buddy. Catch up to jl, in what way? Paradigm has always made great subs. And, what does this have to do with jl anyway??? I was only referring to the part of your post about paradigm speakers "peeling paint" at reference volumes. Most speakers would have that same effect under those conditions.

Btw, how do i qualify to play with the big boys?:d

+1000000000
post #81 of 1511
Thread Starter 
Now fellars lets be nice in the sand box... Side, I was there Saturday, when did you get the demo? There were not Asians in the demo I attended. How did that happen?

I was a bit critical of the demo [speakers not the subs] but that is just me and my ear though a bit loud [small room] and leaning towards shrill [tweeters?]. However for the money spent not bad. As far as the subs I did like the SUB2 a lot.

As far as JL Audio, not they were not at CES and I still stand by they make in my opinion, as well as many others, the best SMALL SEALED ENCLOSURE sub out there but you pay for it.
post #82 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Now fellars lets be nice in the sand box... Side, I was there Saturday, when did you get the demo? There were not Asians in the demo I attended. How did that happen?

I was a bit critical of the demo [speakers not the subs] but that is just me and my ear though a bit loud [small room] and leaning towards shrill [tweeters?]. However for the money spent not bad. As far as the subs I did like the SUB2 a lot.

As far as JL Audio, not they were not at CES and I still stand by they make in my opinion, as well as many others, the best SMALL SEALED ENCLOSURE sub out there but you pay for it.

I respect your opinion... But, could the room/setup have been the possible cause of this "shrill" sound you describe? I mean, a small untreated room would likely present similar problems for just about ANY speaker.
post #83 of 1511
Thread Starter 
Could be but what little I know is that acoustical treatments cannot alter the affects of high freq drivers [tweeters] as much as the rest of the spectrum.

Again I'm not a certified just certifiable...
post #84 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Could be but what little I know is that acoustical treatments cannot alter the affects of high freq drivers [tweeters] as much as the rest of the spectrum.

Again I'm not a certified just certifiable...

OK, cool...

Btw, what were the speakers used in the demo? I'd be very shocked if they were the Signature series with pure beryllium dome tweeters. I don't find my Sig v3's at all shrill/harsh in my small well treated room.
post #85 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Could be but what little I know is that acoustical treatments cannot alter the affects of high freq drivers [tweeters] as much as the rest of the spectrum.



sure they can....just depends on what type of treatment is used.
post #86 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Could be but what little I know is that acoustical treatments cannot alter the affects of high freq drivers [tweeters] as much as the rest of the spectrum.

Again I'm not a certified just certifiable...

Take a look at the absorption coefficients for a typical mineral wool wall treatment panel:

http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--AT...8x2--1001.html

...greater than 1 for all frequencies above 500 Hz. Drywall, for instance, is less than 0.05 for the same frequency range. Treating the first reflection points has a HUGE impact on how high frequencies are perceived. Untreated walls can make even the best tweeter sound 'shrill'.

Back on topic, still no reviews out there of the Sub 1? It's supposed to be the <$4k sealed sub to beat, you'd think it would have generated more 'buzz'. Mine should be delivered this week!
post #87 of 1511
Thread Starter 
Like I said I'm not "certified". I always thought in the high frequencies you wanted diffusion not abosorption. Of course absorption, diffusion and diffraction are all forms of treatment.

Again the better bang for the buck was noticed in the mids and bottom end.

Yes they were the top of line Signature Refs as I recall.
post #88 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Like I said I'm not "certified". I always thought in the high frequencies you wanted diffusion not abosorption

You treat your room according to what needs to be treated. If you need it to be more lively you will use a diffusor. If the highs need to be tamed you will use absorption.
post #89 of 1511
Anyone take delivery of one of these beasts yet? I'd love to see some pics, impressions, comparisons, etc.
post #90 of 1511
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

Anyone take delivery of one of these beasts yet? I'd love to see some pics, impressions, comparisons, etc.


No kidding! I want to see some pro reviews also- with some actual measurements! (range +/- 3db.)

"Low-Frequency Extension"-
Sub 1: 12 Hz DIN
Sub 2: 7 HZ DIN



What does this really mean???
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