The Onkyo TX-NR3007/TX-NR5007 common questions/issues/hints/answers thread - Page 85

No dispute that the unit is designed to be cooled by convection, however if the fans were position underneath the unit and forced cool air into unit the effect may be as good as drawing it through from above, possibly better.

Interesting. I specifically went back to non-biamping after discovering that biamping put my 5007 into Medium power mode - S:M permanently, just as it does if you run it in 4 ohm mode. The convestional wisdom, AFAICT, seems to be that it is not a good idea to run in 4 ohm mode, ever, (unless the amp overheats to the point of shutting down) because it adversely affects damping, dynamics and bass output. Apparently all that the 4 ohm mode does is cut the power down.

For that reason, I decided to go back to mono-amping (?) because it seemed to me strange to pay for so many watts and then lose half of them. HST, losing half your power is just a 3dB drop in sound levels, which I would never notuce anyway because I don't push the amp to the limit. And it's unlikely that every channel will call for maximum power all at the same time. But headroom is headroom, so I spent half a day going back to mono-amping and re-running Audyssey and tweaking.

The result is I don't *think* I can hear any difference between bi-amp mode and mono-amp mode. HST, your remark about a little more resolution rang sort of true and maybe, on reflection, I find I am losing a tiny little bit of resolution as well. But it could be just perception. And the room EQ is sure to be slightly different as well.

Re bi-amping, the Onkyo sends the same signal (full range) to the tweeter and the woofer and the speaker has to handle the crossover, just as in mono-amp mode. Admitedly there are two amps driving the tweeter and sub, but a tweeter consumes hardly any watts, so how much difference will this make? proper bi-amping, AIUI, requires the crossover to be *before* the amplification, not in the speaker, so I have no idea what all this adds up to. Probably very little

Do you not mind your amp running permanently in S:M mode? probably not as you are using external amps as well. I suspect that if I hadn't read this thread and got obsessed with 'losing' half the watts I'd paid for, I would have remained blisffully happy with my 5007 till the end of time

Kind Regards,

Keith

Aaaaagghhhhhh!

Mine switches to L when it is idling and goes right back up to H as soon as I give it something to do. It's permanently in M mode when you bi-amp or run in 4 ohm mode, so that would imply a deliberate cutting back on the power because of the higher current draw in 4 ohm mode. As mine gets hotter and hotter, it switches from L to M, presumably to limit the work it has to do.

I think I am coming to the conclusion that we are all worrying too much about the temeprature of the amp. They designed it with thermal protection circuits, so if it gets so hot it starts to exceed its design parameters, it switches itself off. As nobody seems to be reporting a x007 that has actually switched off, I wonder what we are really worrying about. It seems to be designed to run hot, has fans that cut in and out as needed, has an automatic power (or current) limiting mode and ultimataly has thermal overload protection. Maybe we should just leave it to Onkyo to do the worrying

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hi John,

For every cubic foot of warm air that a fan sucks OUT of an amp, another cubic foot of cooler has to go IN to the amp. That is a guarantee

If you blow air in, it will fight the tendency of hot air to rise naturally and it will possibly fight the internal fans which are trying to push warm air out of the amp. so my money would be on sucking rather than blowing.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hello,

With all this heat, I am worried about premature HDMI board failure.

That seems to be where most of this heat is coming from.?!

You guys with the 3 and 5 should check out the BTL mode for the fronts, that to me is one of the best reasons for getting a highend onkyo, you end up with 300 watts per channel for the mains, now thats power you can hear !

IKWYM, but Onkyo presumably knew when they designed it that it would get hot, hence the automatic fans, the automatic 'throttling back' of power and the thermal overload protection circuits that shut the amp down if it gets too hot. I really think we are all worrying over nothing much. HST, computer fans are fairly cheap and easy to install on top of the unit, so for peace of mind more than anything, that is what I am going to do on mine.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Just a word of caution there: from the 5007 manual :-

"Use only front speakers with an impedance of 8 ohms or higher for bridging. Failure to do so may seriously damage the AV receiver."

My front speakers are 4 ohms so it's not an option for me unfortunately.

Kind Regards,

Keith

All this heat talk is interesting. But I agree just let it do its thing and enjoy it. Do find it strange that the 5007 is the hottest piece of equipment in my rack. I don't use the internal amps at all, I have a XPA-2 and XPA-5 for power, both run cooler then the 5007. So I think the amps are a very small part of the heat out put in these things, but I don't know why solid state electronics of the HDMI and DSP should get that hot.

rickardl,

Sorry the fans never kicked in. The highest temp I reached was only 43-45C.

Agreed this would be better, but the physical design on the unit prohibits this blow underneath approach. There is just no room. Only way this might work is if you mounted the unit on a grill type rack that is open to air flow from the bottom.

The heat discussion goes back as far as 905 / 875 and repeats itself over and over.
It gets hot ... ouch ... it must be defective ...
They have probably never touched a low power class A amp before.
And never realized, that a class A/B amp must be biased too, to reduce / remove crossover distortion.
This holds true for 2-channel and for 7.1 or 9.2 channels even more.
Heat dissipation takes its count ... and higher biasing causes more heat.

kbarnes,

I am not worried about anything. I am sorry you seem to be aggravated by this discussion. We are simply discussing how the data is being interrupted and in some cases misunderstood. This is a conversation about how the AVR seems to work and what conditions causes it to change modes.

Keeping any piece of electronics cool is key to extending the life span of said gear and can be paramount for improving overall operation. Heat removal and discussion about how others do that is an important conversation. Some folks just don't understand or appreciate how much breathing room a 3007/5007 needs. This conversation helps highlight that.

I have a 3007 in the mail, whats the top 5 tips for these receivers out of the box? Looking for tips specific to this unit as I know summing it all up would be impossible and its impossible for me to read the whole thread(immediately).

I am coming from a Pioneer Elite VSX-03TXH and am new to Audessey and Onkyo. I will be using the receiver mostly as a pre/pro and only amping the backs from the inboard amp running 9.2 in a ded HT setup.

Once I have the thing I will have specific questions and use the search function, but just want to get started.....

Looks like you guys are commenting on heat a bunch, do these have high failure rates?

Hi - I'm not at all aggravated. I fact, unlike the amps, I am totally chilled I guess you missed the smiley

My point is that people seem to be getting worried about the heat their amp is giving off. What I'm saying is that it's quite normal. Already a prospective owner is asking if these units have a high failure rate, which makes me think the whole thing needs putting in perspective. I agree it is an interesting topic, and one I have been happy to join in with but we don't seem to have come to any real conclusions. Everyone is reporting different things, which doesn't surprise me because everyone is using their amp in a different way or a different environment. Yours seems to top out at about 43 C, mine tops out at about 55 C for example. Maybe I listen at higher volumes (very possible) or maybe my amp is in a hotter environment and has no additional cooling fans retro-fitted or maybe my speakers are harder to drive etc etc.


For sure. But I guess that the design engineers at Onkyo know more about this than most people. They have built into the amp at least three heat countermeasures - internal fans that come on as required, automatic power limiting and, ultimately, thermal overload protection that shuts the amp down. What I am saying is that temperatures of 55 C or even more are normal for this unit and it is not exceeding its design parameters.



Yes it does help I agree entirely. HST, the manual is very clear as to how much breathing room the unit needs: "Leave 20 cm (8") of free space at the top and sides and 10 cm (4") at the rear. The rear edge of the shelf or board above the apparatus shall be set 10 cm (4") away from the rear panel or wall, creating a flue- like gap for warm air to escape." In fact I have a lot more clearance than that and my amp gets to 55 C with no effort at all. But it doesn't worry me

Kind Regards,

Keith

Nick,

No high heat failures that I am aware of. Just discussing that like all electronics they get warm, would not say hot. Need to be well ventilated and not jammed in a closed shelf with no air flow or proper clearances. (See Owners manual).

Top five tips. Read the first post of this thread. Lots of good info there for you to get started. The OP keeps it up to date and I give a Kudos to him for the work.

Hello,
Going back to the x05 Series, it seems the "Heat Issue" is the major issue Owners of other Brands use to justify often paying more and getting less.

Prior to the TX-SR875, I had pretty much always used Denon AVR's. However, the combination of power and features were so overwhelmingly in the favor of the Onkyo, I could not justify not purchasing one.

For some time I had my 875 in a Rack with such tight clearance that I had to remove the Feet for it to fit. For a year, I had the AVR placed like this with zero incidents of shutdown. In full disclosure, I only used the Preamp Section of the 875 using outboard Amplification for all Channels.

With my 3007, I continue to not use the Amplifier Section, but do have it setup on the top of another Rack. I felt guilty having the 875 setup like I had and dragged out an old Bell O'ggetti TV Stand and placed it where the TV would reside in the Corner of my HT.

Regardless of Brand, there will be failures. If you look at any Owners Thread here, you will read of an Owner needing Service. That being said, I really do not think Onkyo has a higher incidence than other Brands of Failure.
Cheers,
AD

Mine gets warm...maybe warmer than the older Pioneer Elite but I like it and it sounds good.

I'm gonna keep using it until it stops working or I replace it and not worry about either until that point.

Enjoy!

Yes...let me add my thanks to this as well...

That first page is FANTASTIC and has helped me tremendously!

I will also say there are not many threads out there as helpful as this one. Good job keeping it all up to date!

Well guys, I have re-enabled bi-amping on my 5007 (see earlier posts). Decided in the end that I *was* hearing a very subtle difference in the sound - a very slight increase in overall resolution and subtle differences in placement. These might be putely perceptual, but if I am hearing them then that's all that matters. The only reason I can see for the differences is that the tweeters and woofers on the front L&R speakers are now using their own dedicated amplifier. I don't think it's true bi-amping because the crossovers in the speakers are used rather than crossovers *before* the amplification, which is what true bi-amping calls for. Nonetheless the sound now seems to have nore 'focus' and 'precision' than it did for the last few days when I have been running in normal mode.

People who have followed my posts here will know that the main reason I decided to drop bi-amping and revert to normal mode was that when you bi-amp the 5007, the system display tells me that I am using medium power mode (S:M) rather than full power mode (S:H), just as if I had switched impedance settings to 4 ohms. I became concerned that this was limiting the power of the amp and that this was A Bad Thing. My extensive listening tests since have convinced me that I am happier with the more focused sound I hear from bi-amp mode so I am sticking with it now. A side benefit is that the 5007 now also runs cooler than it did in S:H mode. One final thing that convinced me was the 5007 switches to S:M mode *anyway*, even when the speakers are run in non bi-amp mode, when you drive it really hard and it starts to get very hot (> 50C) so any benefits of S:H mode are lost anyway when this happens.

One great tip I picked up on these forums was this: you can STORE AND RECALL the settings of the 5007. I stored the (bi-amp mode) settings before I reverted to normal mode. Because a change of mode from bi-amp to normal requires a re-running if Audyssey MutltEQ this means that all the room EQ and various settings are different to the settings I had in bi-amp mode. However, because I stored the bi-amp mode settings before I reverted to a normal speaker setup, I have been able to RECALL all my settings from my earlier bi-amped configuration, at the push of a button. This has saved me from having to re-run Audyssey MultEQ yet again. I double checked all the settings and they are indeed just the same as they were before I embarked on this reassessment.

In case anyone has missed it, this is the procedure for STORING and RECALLING settings:

To STORE:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR (not the remote)
2. Then push Enter
3. Unit displays 'Setup store?"
4. Still holding Setup, push Enter again
5. Unit displays "Setup storing'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'

All your settings are now stored.

To RECALL:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR
2. Then push Return
3. Unit displays 'Setup recall?'
4. Still holding Setup, push Return again
5. Unit displays 'Setup recalling'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'

Unit then powers off into standby mode. Switch unit back on, your settings have been restored.

Thanks to the person who originally posted this info - it has saved me hours of running Audyssey and then tweaking the sound all over again.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Well, this is the case indeed, avr/amp send full bandwidth to each driver, and speaker crossover (presumably) split the signal. Or not?, as I am unaware of internal schematics and signal path of each of three set binding posts to the driver, once connecting lugs removed.
Crossover *before* amplification equals *active* amplification, and same speaker manufacturer is famous for its active speakers, which are well regarded as well. However, some of them (active version of my bi-ampable rears) are mono powered by a single class D Flying Mole amp rated at 100W, some larger by Bryston PowerPack120 (120W@8 Ohm), and largest by Bryston PowerPack300 (300W@8 Ohm). Another approach would be using Bryston 10B outboard crossover just to split' bandwidth before speaker binding posts. Other reputable active speakers as Meridian and Genelec use about 80-120W for woofer, and 60-80W upwards.
On the other hand, noticed that even flagship B&W 80X being three way is only bi-ampable, (two sets of binding posts).
When got 5.1 set up with L/C/R with 3 sets of binding posts each decided to look for suitable amplification without taking a mortgage, hence 5007/5500 combo with 18 channels at hand at the price of Bryston PowerPack300. Even if each driver is fed about 68W, that's about 150W per speaker (conservatively). Sure, would have been glad to be 100W per driver, but that's life.
How much difference will this make? Recently acquired 3 PMC Wafer2 on walls and tested them with fronts cables. Wafer2 two way has only one set of binding posts. At -24dB volume these sounded impressive for their size, but could not say night and day different in comparison to PMC EB1i tri-amped.
The sky is the limit, but I am really pleased with 5007/5500, and if one in need of lot of channels and short of cash for esoterics, would heartily recommend this combo.

Hello,
A few weeks ago, I picked up a TX-NR3007 for use as a Pre-Pro. Due to using Martin Logan Electrostatic Speakers, I really cannot use the AVR's Amplifier Section. I am running Vantages (Main), Stage (CC), Vista (Surround), and Depth (Subwoofer) in a 5.1 HT.

My Dealer offered to let me return my 3007 and pick up a 5007 for 200 Dollars more. I realize the biggest difference is the use of Burr Brown PCM-1795 DAC's as opposed to PCM-1796 DAC's. In addition, an additional USB Port and HDMI Input.

I suppose my question is to anyone who has had a chance to listen to both and if the juice is worth the squeeze? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
AD

Audyssey confirmed that if you switch from normal mode to bi-amp mode (or vice versa) you DO have to run Audyssey again because "the speaker configuration has changed".

However, before I quit bi-amp mode, I did the STORE of settings, as described. This stores all the settings. I then went from my original bi-amp mode to normal mode, changing the speaker cables and amp settings, and then I did have to re-run Audyssey, as per their information to me. When I reverted from normal mode back to my original bi-amp mode, I changed the speaker cables and amp settings to bi-amp - but then I did NOT need to run Audyssey again - all I had to do was to RECALL the stored settings. This then restores ALL the settings, including Audyssey settings. This can be verified by going into the 5700 Setup menu and checking the speaker distances and levels (which were slightly different both times presumably due to small differences in mike placement). As these are set by Audyssey, it is easy to see that the original settings I was using in bi-amp mode had indeed been restored. NOTE: anyone doing this might want to make a note of their original settings just so they can verify that they have definitely been restored).



It definitely works and would make a useful addition to the excellent first post here. I wonder why Onkyo don't make more of this very useful feature. It is excellent for anyione who has a pretty good setup but wants to try some further tweaking - retaining the ability to go back to a proven configuration is always a good idea.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Excellent. That first post is a terrific source of information. Helped me get my 5007 up and running in double quick time when I first got it.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hi all you HOME THEATER buffs on the TX3007 I cant find in Listening Mode Preset THX Ultra2 Cinema Do I have to set something up first in the OSD ? Thank you

Possibly bragging rights...?