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The Onkyo TX-NR3007/TX-NR5007 common questions/issues/hints/answers thread - Page 87

post #2581 of 4660
9/2/10 at 10:31pm
Yes you can easily use either zone 2 or 3 triggers. As long as you leave the power amp for zone 2 and 3 off you can use the triggers and not lose any channel processing as discussed in the manual.

I use an XPA-5 and use trigger 2 to power it on and off. In the Onkyo Setup Menu, section 2.1 "Speaker Settings" make sure you have Power to zones 2 and 3 set to "Not Act". The Zone Trigger will still work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

I don't have an Onkyo model as yet. My room has been under construction for way, way too long. I'm looking at buying a receiver, and Onkyo is one I'm considering (though I have all the amps I need unless I go to 9 channel). However, the recent discovery that there is no Zone 1 12V trigger has me rethinking Onkyo. I absolutely must have a 12V trigger in order to turn on two or more amplifiers.

Anyway, I completely gutted my room and ran cables for, say, 10.7, as I ran two center channels (in case one wants to reverse the room for some reason), 6 additional channels and two extra sets of speaker wire, meant to biamp the "front" R/L speakers. I could use these extra sets of speaker wire for heights, but they aren't placed correctly for widths. I also ran subwoofer wire to 7 independent locations around the room. Had I known about the wides/heights, I'd have run cable for them, too, even if I never used them.

I also have some cheap inwalls I could use for the heights, but it's not clear to me how much info is going to the inwalls/heights, so I don't know whether they would work in that application. They were originally purchased for surround duties in a different room.

Unfortunately, the drywall is up and painted. Surround speakers (Emotiva) go up this weekend. The carpenter finishes installing the wainscoting sometime soon (he just got married, so when he gets back from his honeymoon).

Anyway, how significant is the lack of a Zone 1 trigger? To me, this seems like a deal breaker. Do I have to use Zone 2 and Zone 3 as triggers for Zone 1? I need to turn on at least two amplifiers and an active crossover.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2582 of 4660
9/2/10 at 10:46pm
Yes it will. Less speakers, less juice needed to drive them.

The answer to the 4 Ohm versus 6 Ohm speaker question is complicated.

4 Ohm speakers require more power to drive them to equal SPLs as 6 Ohm speakers. So the 4 Ohm speaker need more juice.

However, if you switch your AVR to 4 Ohm speaker versus 6 Ohm settings the power amplifier management module will effectively cut rated output power to the speakers by 50% to prevent amp clipping and resulting speaker damage.

Most folks recommend leaving the AVR set to 6 ohm speaker setting and being careful not to drive the speaker to the clipping point. If you hear any harshness or dropouts, cut the volume back.

The 5007 is a beast of an AVR. It really does deliver the power for an AVR. And as a result it should by all accounts, be plugged into its own dedicated 15 Amp circuit. You may have problems trying to share the same plug for additional equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

will speaker setup make any differents in power consumption ?
Like will a 5.1 setup will be less power hungry then a 7.1 setup ?
And will 4 Ohm or 6 Ohm make a differents ?

THX...... :-)
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post #2583 of 4660
9/3/10 at 3:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Just so you know the why behind the answer. "Cool is better in electronics".


Don't turn on your system and Crank it up cold. This will cause the unit to rapidly heat. Some materials will expand rapidly while other materials take longer to heat to equal levels. Allow the unit to warm up before taxing it. 20 to 30 Min's should be a good rule of thumb.

Do turn off any external cooling fans as soon as you turn off the main unit. Or 10-15 Min's before you intend to turn off the unit. This will help the unit to cool at a slower rate.

I hope this helps some folks extend the life of their beloved equipment.

Adamg - thanks for that long and informative post. Very helpful. For many years I have observed that electronics equipment often fails at the point when it is switched on. A classic example is a light bulb which always seems to fail at the point it is switched on - rarely do they just go out when illuminated. I assume (I have no electronics knowledge of any value) that the act of switching on causes stress to the components and one or more of them fails due to that extra stress. For this reason, it used to be my practice to leave my amps etc permanently switched on (not in 'standby' but in an actual 'ready to go' state). This also helped with some high end amps I used to use which didn't sound good until they were warmed up.

Given what you say about heating and cooling, would you say it was a good idea to leave the 5007 permanently on - I am thinking solely in respect of extending component life, not in respect of electricity consumption, green issues or anything else.

Thanks for taking the time to post with all that information - it's appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2584 of 4660
9/3/10 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
A few weeks ago, I picked up a TX-NR3007 for use as a Pre-Pro. Due to using Martin Logan Electrostatic Speakers, I really cannot use the AVR's Amplifier Section. I am running Vantages (Main), Stage (CC), Vista (Surround), and Depth (Subwoofer) in a 5.1 HT.

My Dealer offered to let me return my 3007 and pick up a 5007 for 200 Dollars more. I realize the biggest difference is the use of Burr Brown PCM-1795 DAC's as opposed to PCM-1796 DAC's. In addition, an additional USB Port and HDMI Input.

I suppose my question is to anyone who has had a chance to listen to both and if the juice is worth the squeeze? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
AD

I don't know what the differences are between the 3007 and the 5007 in terms of what you will actually hear. But I decided to buy the 5007 rather than the 3007 because it gives me peace of mind to know that I own the flagship model and that I won't constantly have a niggling doubt that I could have had more (if I had bought the 3007 instead). I am sure that both are very fine amps, but for 200 bucks you can have the peace of mind I have - and nothing nagging you to upgrade yet again!

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2585 of 4660
9/3/10 at 4:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

I have a pair of Mirage speakers I can use to test the wides and heights. If I like them, I can also try the inwalls to see what they'd do.

If I can just use the height speakers, I could get another pair of Emotiva or use the inwalls I have. With the cost of redoing this room, I can't afford matching Salk speakers (I can barely afford a receiver, and I still need a Bluray player).

I would recommend testing the Height effect with the speakers you already have before you make any real investment. If you like it, you can always upgrade the speakers later (the wiring will be in place).

Personally, there is no way I would now go back to the 5.2 setup I had before. The Heights add a terrific dimension to the movie's sound, for me anyway. It will depend to some extent on the movies you like most, but there seems to be content up there near the ceiling on most of mine. I watched the Blu-ray of Unforgiven last night - a movie that is not noted for its excellent sound quality, but there are a lot of scenes that have thunderstorms in them and the difference when you switch the Heights in and out is amazing. The entire front soundstage just explodes into your room - it makes your front speakers sound like they are 10 feet tall. Yet amazingly, it doesn't take away from the sound that is rooted to the centre speaker and the front left and rights. Voices, for example, don't drift upwards towards the ceiling, but atmospherics and ambience do. In thw Blu-ray of Fifth Element, where the Diva sings, for example, the impact is considerable with the Height speakers engaged - her voice is still centre stage but the ambience of the large hall where she is singing makes her vocals truly soar.

I have no room for Wide speakers, but I can definitely, from my experience at least, recommend the Height speakers as a way to go.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2586 of 4660
9/3/10 at 4:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

PS. think when you use 4 Ohm instade of 6 Ohm will reduce power consumption.......... (?)

4 ohm speakers draw *more* current than 8 ohm speakers. The rated wattage of an amp will be higher into 4 ohms than into 8 ohms for example. My 5007 specifies 145 watts at 8 ohms and 220/280 watts at 6 ohms for example.

If you engage 4 ohm mode, the unit cuts back the power.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2587 of 4660
9/3/10 at 4:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrical_Eng View Post

TX-NR 5007 Onkyo AVR, recently purchased, was giving Audio dropouts during avatar . To over come the issue, having downloaded the firmware, effort was made to update based on laid down procedure of USB. After approx 30 minutes, the system hanged at 2% while writing MMPU. After waiting for an extra 30 minutes of system hangover, the power was switched off. When turned on. it continues to display 'MMPU Setting' Please advise action before it is decided to return the receiver please. My very first post ever on any such forum

Sorry to hear of your problems. All I can suggest is that you try this:

Switch the unit off and unplug it from the mains. Leave it for a few minutes. Plug in and switch on again. If still not working properly, try a factory reset (reset the unit by holding down [VCR/DVR] and pressing [ON/STANDBY]. The unit will switch itself off. Switch back on and see if this has made any difference. After the factory reset you will need to enter all of your settings again and re-run Audyssey MultEQ.

Good luck!

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2588 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Al,

If you use an external AMP like the XPA-5 or similar, you can drive all 11.2 channels using the preouts.

How can this be done? Doesn't the processing of the extra channels have to be assigned to either height or wides?

If this is possible, my ears just perked up!
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post #2589 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

How can this be done? Doesn't the processing of the extra channels have to be assigned to either height or wides?

If this is possible, my ears just perked up!

No it is not possible. Adamg was mistaken. Even using pre-outs, only heights OR wides will be active, not both at the same time.
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post #2590 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

How can this be done? Doesn't the processing of the extra channels have to be assigned to either height or wides?

If this is possible, my ears just perked up!

I think you might be misinterpreting what Adamg is saying here.
You can't drive the height and wide channels at the same time. The manual makes this clear on P19: "Front high and front wide speakers produce no sound at the same time."

The 5007 is a 11.2 channel amp. You have:

Front L, Centre, Front R, Surr Back L, Surr Back R, Surr L, Surr R, Height L, Height R, Wide L, Wide R (which is 11 channels) plus two sub channels. But the most you can get out of the amp is 9.2, utilising all the channels as above and picking *either* height or wide. The chart on P19 of the manual also makes this clear.

I can only assume that Onkyo gave two sets of outlets for the Height and Wides so that users could connect both Height and Wide speakers and choose which they wanted to use, depending possibly on their source material. I have been told that the Wide speakers work especially well on music sources for example. Otherwise, Onkyo could have given us just one set of outlets for Height and Wide with the appropriate speakers selected in software, as now.

So my understanding is that you can indeed connect up 11 channels, but you can only use 9 of those channels at the same time. Currently only Denon have an AVR that permits all 11 channels to be used simultaneously AFAIK.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2591 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think you might be misinterpreting what Adamg is saying here.
You can't drive the height and wide channels at the same time. The manual makes this clear on P19: "Front high and front wide speakers produce no sound at the same time."

The 5007 is a 11.2 channel amp. You have:

Front L, Centre, Front R, Surr Back L, Surr Back R, Surr L, Surr R, Height L, Height R, Wide L, Wide R (which is 11 channels) plus two sub channels. But the most you can get out of the amp is 9.2, utilising all the channels as above and picking *either* height or wide. The chart on P19 of the manual also makes this clear.

I can only assume that Onkyo gave two sets of outlets for the Height and Wides so that users could connect both Height and Wide speakers and choose which they wanted to use, depending possibly on their source material. I have been told that the Wide speakers work especially well on music sources for example. Otherwise, Onkyo could have given us just one set of outlets for Height and Wide with the appropriate speakers selected in software, as now.

So my understanding is that you can indeed connect up 11 channels, but you can only use 9 of those channels at the same time. Currently only Denon have an AVR that permits all 11 channels to be used simultaneously AFAIK.

Kind Regards,

Keith

So even with an external amp, to get 11channels driven simultaneously you would have to duplicate heights or wides. Is this correct?
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post #2592 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

So even with an external amp, to get 11channels driven simultaneously you would have to duplicate heights or wides. Is this correct?

No matter what you do with the x007 series, you can never get Heights and Wides running *at the same time*.

You can connect all 11 channels but you can only use 9 at one time. AFAIK this is the same whether you use the speaker outlets on the x007 or the preamp outlets on the x007. There are 11 *channels* but only 9 *preamps/amplifiers*. I'd love to be wrong on this but from careful reading of the manual, this is what it is telling me.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2593 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Al,

If you use an external AMP like the XPA-5 or similar, you can drive all 11.2 channels using the preouts.


Regarding DSX heights and wides...

On the NR3007, AFAIK even when using the pre-outs you can only have heigts or wides, the signal is not available to both at the same time... and I think the NR5007 is the same. Although it has 11 amps the same holds true for signal processing with these DSX derived signals.

I'll try and find where this was stated.

Keith, you are quick, and type faster too!
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post #2594 of 4660
9/3/10 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Regarding DSX heights and wides...

On the NR3007, AFAIK even when using the pre-outs you can only have heigts or wides, the signal is not available to both at the same time... and I think the NR5007 is the same. Although it has 11 amps the same holds true for signal processing with these DSX derived signals.

I'll try and find where this was stated.

Keith, you are quick, and type faster too!

Are the pre-outs active when using the onboard amp to drive a channel?
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post #2595 of 4660
9/3/10 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

Ya from my 12' viewing distance you would need a room 40' wide to get them at 60 deg and still be on the same plane as the fronts.

So if you move them toward the listener to get the 60 deg angle and have them along the side wall. Do you still point them toward the listener or could you mount them just like surrounds right on the side wall?

Personally this will not get done in my dedicated theater as a tower speaker to match the front would look pretty tacky sitting along the wall in the room. The only way I would do it is to do more of my Triad in wall Silvers, which would mean cutting more holes in the wall and running more wire, think I will pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

So are wides actually meant to be mounted on the side wall like a surround speaker? I just assumed that they were set like normal front speakers but out further. But according to the diagram they would have to be on a side wall.

After some discussion in the Audyssey thread, I can confirm that the intended placement of speakers for the DSX derived channels should follow (as closely as possible) the placement as shown in the Audyssey web page.

Essentially the speaker placement should be thought of as a sphere and this is why the heights are placed so much closer to the listening position. As for the wides they should be on an arc of a circle that centered on the main listening position. So when I said 'the same plane' this was correct but that plane is not a straight (or tangential line) from the MLP but rather the arc of the circle.

So regarding the importance of angle and distance, Audyssey has been designed to compensate for distance but not angle and this is why that is the parameter the diagram shows and it asking you to try and achieve. There is a bit of leeway on this angle but of course the nearer to the stated location the better.

As has been mentioned since this popped up in this thread, that may be difficult depending on the seating distance and the width of the room.
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post #2596 of 4660
9/3/10 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Are the pre-outs active when using the onboard amp to drive a channel?

Yes I believe they are but the signals for heights and wides are still governed by the processing allotment within the Onkyo, still only heights or wides.

Curious, do you work for Hitachi?
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post #2597 of 4660
9/3/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Yes I believe they are but the signals for heights and wides are still governed by the processing allotment within the Onkyo, still only heights or wides.

Curious, do you work for Hitachi?

Actually, yes. Although, No thats not why my name is such. Originally I registered here to get help with my first HD plasma which was a hitachi. I currently work for GNF which is a GE/Hitachi co-venture. No relation to my name though.

On most other forums I go by nottaway, but I think that name was taken here......
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post #2598 of 4660
9/3/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Actually, yes. Although, No thats not why my name is such. Originally I registered here to get help with my first HD plasma which was a hitachi. I currently work for GNF which is a GE/Hitachi co-venture. No relation to my name though.

On most other forums I go by nottaway, but I think that name was taken here......

Ahh, I used to work for Hitachi Data Systems, unfortunatly I was recently downsized out of a job... now on the lookout for a good opportunity.

So do you own an Onkyo?
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post #2599 of 4660
9/3/10 at 8:54am
I am trying to set up an internet radio station. I'm not sure if my problem is because I don't have a specific link or what. What I mean is, I go to the link on the computer, which is http://www.live365.com/index.live, and when playing on the computer, no mater what station I play through them, the link stays the same.

So pasting that into my URL on the Onkyo, I get a list of options , which include tow with what appear to be broadcast icons (A dot with two little curly lines leaning down to the left). ONe is [?].

Also, the station I add does not then show up on the Customer Setting page for me to enter my login credentials for the site.

Any Suggestions?

On another topic, some of you will remember my battle with getting Pandora to play. I have found that if I have a few 'stations' created on Pandora, and use Quick Mix on the Onkyo, then I can get a consistent stream of music. But I do still have the problem of a lot that won't play if I select just a specific Pandora Station.

[EDIIT]
I called Onkyo Support. I found that I need to click on the Play icon, copy the shortcut and paste it into the URL line from teh browser.

I find that the station I am trying to add does not even have the option to copy shortcut when I rclick on the Play icon. I guess I can't play that one through the Onkyo.
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post #2600 of 4660
9/3/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Ahh, I used to work for Hitachi Data Systems, unfortunatly I was recently downsized out of a job... now on the lookout for a good opportunity.

So do you own an Onkyo?

My 3007 should be here today. I'm still getting my feet wet with Onkyo. Bad part is I won't get to play with it for a while I'm in the middle of a long upstairs HT build.
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post #2601 of 4660
9/3/10 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

My 3007 should be here today. I'm still getting my feet wet with Onkyo. Bad part is I won't get to play with it for a while I'm in the middle of a long upstairs HT build.

I also have a 3007, but only for a couple of months now, renovations (Kitchen) are delaying any serious experimentation.

My HT will be undergoing a re-birth due to the kitchen as the wiring and such has to go through the ceiling are in the current HT so now is the time to say goodbye to the rec-room and go for a purpose-built home theatre!
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post #2602 of 4660
9/3/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorknh View Post

No it is not possible. Adamg was mistaken. Even using pre-outs, only heights OR wides will be active, not both at the same time.

Incorrect. I was not mistaken. I have it working now. The preouts for the High/Wide are the same preout. Look at the back of the AVR and you will see. The AVR is feeding my AMP a signal to the Wides when the AVR is in Height DSP mode. When the AVR is in Wide mode the High speakers are silent. So in the High mode I have all speakers powered and receiving signals from the AVR.

It may be the way I configured my AMP. I have the Wide speakers powered by the external AMP and the High speakers powered by the AVR.

It works, trust me I have tested it many times. I was pleasantly surprised when it worked the first time myself.
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post #2603 of 4660
9/3/10 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Incorrect. I was not mistaken. I have it working now. The preouts for the High/Wide are the same preout. Look at the back of the AVR and you will see. The AVR is feeding my AMP a signal to the Wides when the AVR is in Height DSP mode. When the AVR is in Wide mode the High speakers are silent. So in the High mode I have all speakers powered and receiving signals from the AVR.

It may be the way I configured my AMP. I have the Wide speakers powered by the external AMP and the High speakers powered by the AVR.

It works, trust me I have tested it many times. I was pleasantly surprised when it worked the first time myself.

Those wides are getting the height signal though right?

So your basically duplicating your heights and placing them as wides.

If this is the case shouldn't you be doing the opposite? Or in other words "tricking" the receiver into duplicating your wides since there is more material in the wide channels? I thought I read somewhere that the wide channels had more content....
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post #2604 of 4660
9/3/10 at 10:55am
Just got off the phone with Onkyo Tech Support (whoever i spoke with was an idiot with a HEAVY accent). did you guys know that enabling 'TV Sp Out' requires the main room to be 2ch PCM? I didn't and now I'm PISSED. I feel like I've been ripped off by Onkyo with no recourse. Has anyone else run into this limitation?
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post #2605 of 4660
9/3/10 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Yes it will. Less speakers, less juice needed to drive them.

The answer to the 4 Ohm versus 6 Ohm speaker question is complicated.

4 Ohm speakers require more power to drive them to equal SPLs as 6 Ohm speakers. So the 4 Ohm speaker need more juice.

However, if you switch your AVR to 4 Ohm speaker versus 6 Ohm settings the power amplifier management module will effectively cut rated output power to the speakers by 50% to prevent amp clipping and resulting speaker damage.
.

All speakers i use are 8 Ohm.
Will driving them on 4 Ohm (on 4 Ohm it works without any problems, clipping or whatever distortion) give a lower power consuption then on the 6 Ohm setting ?
I do feel the receiver is less warm on 4 Ohm then on 6 Ohm, but is this also less power use.........
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post #2606 of 4660
9/3/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

Incorrect. I was not mistaken. I have it working now. The preouts for the High/Wide are the same preout. Look at the back of the AVR and you will see. The AVR is feeding my AMP a signal to the Wides when the AVR is in Height DSP mode. When the AVR is in Wide mode the High speakers are silent. So in the High mode I have all speakers powered and receiving signals from the AVR.

It may be the way I configured my AMP. I have the Wide speakers powered by the external AMP and the High speakers powered by the AVR.

It works, trust me I have tested it many times. I was pleasantly surprised when it worked the first time myself.

Hmmm, something is not quite right, if the processing from the DSP is active for 'wides' then the pre-out then the speaker associated to the pre-out should be providing the same information... This process should hold true when the DSP provides 'heights' information.

You mention that in wide mode the heights go silent, if what you say is true then the DSP is not providing heights and wides individually depending on selection through the pre-out and speaker outs...

As for the question as to which signal provides the biggest impact, Audyssey's website suggests the wides are most important followed by heights. They even go further to say that if you could give up the back surrounds for heights they would recommend that as well. AFAIK this is not possible with the 3007/5007 series of Onkyo AVR's.
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post #2607 of 4660
9/3/10 at 11:35am
CBdicX,

By going 4 ohm with 8 Ohm speakers you are just making the AVR work harder for no real gain that I am aware. I would leave it set to 6 Ohm speaker setting and enjoy. The AVR will perform better and I firmly believe use less power as a result. Using 4 Ohms is like driving your car down the highway in 3rd gear, rather than 4th.

Understanding speaker Ohms rating is quite confusing and I do not protest to be an expert by any means. What I understand about it is this. Ohms rating of a speaker is an average resistance for the particular speaker as it is tested with frequencies across the full bandwidth of the rating for that driver.

What does this mean? It means that 4 ohm rated speakers have a higher/greater resistance or require more energy to excite the drivers to produce the sound to a predetermined level. 6 ohm speakers are simply more efficient and require less energy to do that same thing. I am not talking about the quality of the sound, only the power level. Quality of sound and Ohms is an entirely different conversation.

So, when you set your AVR to 4 Ohms your telling it you have high resistance speakers connected. The AMP section kicks into higher output mode. The AVR power management module kicks in a power limiter to protect the internal amps and your speakers. It does this because 4 ohm speakers require much more power to reach certain listening levels. Therefore one can safely assume, and I don't like to assume, but I have not done the research to say factually. That the AVR in 4 ohm mode, is working harder and consuming more power, to reach the same listening levels that it could achieve in 6 ohm mode, when using the same 8 Ohm speakers as you suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

All speakers i use are 8 Ohm.
Will driving them on 4 Ohm (on 4 Ohm it works without any problems, clipping or whatever distortion) give a lower power consumption then on the 6 Ohm setting ?
I do feel the receiver is less warm on 4 Ohm then on 6 Ohm, but is this also less power use.........
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post #2608 of 4660
9/3/10 at 11:47am
I completely understand the confusion here. Please permit me to attempt to clarify.

I have a five channel AMP I use to drive the front five speakers. FL, FR, C, WL, WR. As they are the biggest speakers and require the most power. The AVR drives the Highs, Side Surrounds and Rear Surrounds.

The XPA-5 is fed by the preouts on the AVR and no speakers are connected to the AVR's amp for the front five mentioned above. The preouts used are Front Left, Front Right, Center, High/Wide Left and High/wide Right. There are not specific preouts for High or Wide. So as was deduced by NicksHitachi the XPA-5 is being feed either the High signal or Wide signal depending on the selected DSP employed. And therefore the WIDE speaker via the XPA is reproducing the High channel under Wide DSP modes.

To make this perfectly clear. When I run Speaker calibration tones via the AVR. The Height channel sound comes out of both the High speakers and the Wide speakers.

On Edit I am attaching a Picture of my front stage setup. The XPA-5 is not yet installed in this Picture, but the speakers are all the same.



This may not be kosher according to Audyssey and other purists, but the sound result is quite amazing and a major improvement as far as my ear can attest to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Hmmm, something is not quite right, if the processing from the DSP is active for 'wides' then the pre-out then the speaker associated to the pre-out should be providing the same information... This process should hold true when the DSP provides 'heights' information.

You mention that in wide mode the heights go silent, if what you say is true then the DSP is not providing heights and wides individually depending on selection through the pre-out and speaker outs...

As for the question as to which signal provides the biggest impact, Audyssey's website suggests the wides are most important followed by heights. They even go further to say that if you could give up the back surrounds for heights they would recommend that as well. AFAIK this is not possible with the 3007/5007 series of Onkyo AVR's.


LL
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post #2609 of 4660
9/3/10 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post


You mention that in wide mode the heights go silent, if what you say is true then the DSP is not providing heights and wides individually depending on selection through the pre-out and speaker outs...

The manual could not be more clear on this topic. It specifically says that you cannot get sound out of the Height speakers and Wide speakers *at the same time*. It just can't be done. It's right there on Page 19.

Clearly, you *can* connect the height speaker outlet to speakers also placed in the wide position, which I think is what Adamg is doing, but this does NOT give the proper effect that Audyssey intend with Height and Wide speakers, where different information algorithms are being used to create different matrixed effects for a) height information and b) wide information. The result will, IMO, be a mess.

For example, one of the best Blu-rays I have for demoing the height channels is House of Flying Daggers - the fight in the bamboo forest scene. Here, the height information as the warriors sweep through the tree tops 60 feet above the ground is phenomenal. If you were to send that information to an extra set of height speakers, positioned in the wide position, it would make a nonsense of the sound and image. You would get noise from tree tops 60 feet above the ground coming at you from the right and left wide. To me, this makes no more sense than placing your rear surrounds in front of you!

Adamg is certainly running height and wide speakers at the same time, but he is NOT getting height and wide *information* at the same time because it cannot be done with the x007 series AVRs, as stated in the manual.

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #2610 of 4660
9/3/10 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post

CBdicX,

By going 4 ohm with 8 Ohm speakers you are just making the AVR work harder for no real gain that I am aware. I would leave it set to 6 Ohm speaker setting and enjoy. The AVR will perform better and I firmly believe use less power as a result. Using 4 Ohms is like driving your car down the highway in 3rd gear, rather than 4th.

Understanding speaker Ohms rating is quite confusing and I do not protest to be an expert by any means. What I understand about it is this. Ohms rating of a speaker is an average resistance for the particular speaker as it is tested with frequencies across the full bandwidth of the rating for that driver.

What does this mean? It means that 4 ohm rated speakers have a higher/greater resistance or require more energy to excite the drivers to produce the sound to a predetermined level. 6 ohm speakers are simply more efficient and require less energy to do that same thing. I am not talking about the quality of the sound, only the power level. Quality of sound and Ohms is an entirely different conversation.

So, when you set your AVR to 4 Ohms your telling it you have high resistance speakers connected. The AMP section kicks into higher output mode. The AVR power management module kicks in a power limiter to protect the internal amps and your speakers. It does this because 4 ohm speakers require much more power to reach certain listening levels. Therefore one can safely assume, and I don't like to assume, but I have not done the research to say factually. That the AVR in 4 ohm mode, is working harder and consuming more power, to reach the same listening levels that it could achieve in 6 ohm mode, when using the same 8 Ohm speakers as you suggested.

I believe setting the receiver to 4ohms just limits the amplifier power output(to minimize clipping/overheating), not making it work any harder. 4ohm speakers on the other hand will demand more from an amplifier.

4ohm speakers have lower resistance than 8ohm speakers allowing you to draw more current which leads to amplifier instability. Setting the Receiver to 4ohm mode acutally makes it work less reducing available power.

Bottom line match impedance setting to what the speakers measure.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The Onkyo TX-NR3007/TX-NR5007 common questions/issues/hints/answers thread