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Availability of Panasonic DMR-EH59/69 in USA? - Page 9

post #241 of 270
A better question would be if they available for other parts of the world region/ZONE free?? The ones I was looking at were Australian/UK models but I know many of these imports are built for use middle eastern regions. And these buyers want region/ZONE free recorders/players..........

Talking about and learning about these things just enrages me that the movie & TV industry has spent billions being so successful at blocking these things from the US market! They would be able to easily sell these things here for a over the air HD market but the TV & movie industry will never allow this. They have allowed the SD gray market recorders to be able to be used here only without tuners, again by design pushed by the TV & movie industry!
post #242 of 270
http://www.panasonic.co.nz/products/home-entertainment/dvd-and-blu-ray/#close

here is a list of Blu-Ray HDD recorders on sale today in NZ.
post #243 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

If we had a way to get a digital signal into one of those UK HDD Blu-Ray recorders I would already have one! The idea of using one of these as a SD recorder is a good idea when the price drops to a similar to the current -69s price range.

You will never be able to easily get a "digital" TV signal directly into an imported UK/Aus/NZ Panasonic BluRay recorder. For all the reasons I previously noted: the machines are designed to record from their internal tuners primarily, from HD camcorders secondarily, and from standard-def line inputs as a distant third-priority source. They are not equipped to record external HD sources at all, and it seems the current models either dropped the RGB input entirely or limit it to standard def only. A generic grey-market BWT735 priced like the EH59 is extremely unlikely: the EH59 is a seven year old design that costs Panasonic nothing to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

Talking about and learning about these things just enrages me that the movie & TV industry has spent billions being so successful at blocking these things from the US market! They would be able to easily sell these things here for a over the air HD market but the TV & movie industry will never allow this.

So many people who desperately want these recorders to be sold here have repeated variations of this mantra so many times that its become an inbred mythology on the level of The X Files or Lost: "the cigarette smoking man, the man in black, [insert hollywood boogeyman] is preventing me from buying the recorder I want." It sounds exciting, but it isn't really the case.

The reason these machines aren't sold here is much less sinister than you think: it isn't a conspiracy, its the complete utter lack of broad demand at the consumer level. Mfrs got their behinds handed to them on a plate by cheapskate American consumers from 2002 thru 2006: very very VERY few were interested in a $599 DVD/HDD recorder, and even less are interested in a BluRay version which would be even more complicated and expensive. Panasonic is in no hurry to repeat those tremendous losses with a BD recorder fiasco.

Like it or not, the mass market consumer is the tail that wags the North American dog, and it is largely dependent on external decoder boxes. There isn't any appreciable "over the air HD market": our pathetic off-air DTV broadcasts are near-useless to more than half the country. Units like the Sony DHG-HDD250 and Channel Master CM7000 died a quick death long ago, because we're besotted with subscription cable or satellite PVRs for timeshift recording (or in love with the TiVO interface). For every nerd on this recorder forum who enjoys making permanent disc recordings and would rather die than pay a monthly PVR fee, there are 100 everyday consumers who think we're completely out of our minds. They have zero, zilch, nada interest in making their own DVDs or BluRays, and they think our constant harping about monthly fees is a disturbing mental disconnect from reality.

Does this state of affairs make Hollywood happy? You bet, but its merely an accident of fate. Panasonic would love to sell BWT735s to us, but there's no market. A few hundred forum geeks isn't gonna cut it: with the global economy in a tailspin, none of these mfrs is able to throw money down the drain subsidizing eccentric Americans like they did in the '80s and '90s. Them days is gone. And it pays to note Panasonic is struggling to unload these recorders in UK/NZ/Aus: sales have been declining sharply in favor of discless HDD models (cheap TiVOs). Panasonic keeps at it simply because of the expensive exclusivity deal they made with Sony at the dawn of BDR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

They have allowed the SD gray market recorders to be able to be used here only without tuners, again by design pushed by the TV & movie industry!

The EH59 is not officially sold in North America: its a grey market import that savvy dealers brought in to slake demand from Panasonic cultists (and the inexplicable subset of globe-trotting immigrant businesspeople in New York City who apparently need a recorder for both PAL and NTSC line input). Panasonic designed the EH59 for the Middle Eastern market, where analog PAL broadcasts remain popular. It doesn't have an ATSC tuner because it wasn't intended for sale here at all: heck, the expense of adding an ATSC tuner is what drove Panasonic to drop the EH55 and EH75 from North America in 2006. Holywood had nothing to do with it: Americans were fiercely resistant to the $499 EH55 in 2006, adding ATSC to it would have raised the price to $669 so Panasonic (wisely) followed Sony, Pioneer and Toshiba out the door rather than bother with a pricey DOA update.
Edited by CitiBear - 9/12/13 at 9:04pm
post #244 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

You will never be able to easily get a "digital" TV signal directly into an imported UK/Aus/NZ Panasonic BluRay recorder. For all the reasons I previously noted: the machines are designed to record from their internal tuners primarily, from HD camcorders secondarily, and from standard-def line inputs as a distant third-priority source. They are not equipped to record external HD sources at all, and it seems the current models either dropped the RGB input entirely or limit it to standard def only. A generic grey-market BWT735 priced like the EH59 is extremely unlikely: the EH59 is a seven year old design that costs Panasonic nothing to make.
So many people who desperately want these recorders to be sold here have repeated variations of this mantra so many times that its become an inbred mythology on the level of The X Files or Lost: "the cigarette smoking man, the man in black, [insert hollywood boogeyman] is preventing me from buying the recorder I want." It sounds exciting, but it isn't really the case.

The reason these machines aren't sold here is much less sinister than you think: it isn't a conspiracy, its the complete utter lack of broad demand at the consumer level. Mfrs got their behinds handed to them on a plate by cheapskate American consumers from 2002 thru 2006: very very VERY few were interested in a $599 DVD/HDD recorder, and even less are interested in a BluRay version which would be even more complicated and expensive. Panasonic is in no hurry to repeat those tremendous losses with a BD recorder fiasco.

Like it or not, the mass market consumer is the tail that wags the North American dog, and it is largely dependent on external decoder boxes. There isn't any appreciable "over the air HD market": our pathetic off-air DTV broadcasts are near-useless to more than half the country. Units like the Sony DHG-HDD250 and Channel Master CM7000 died a quick death long ago, because we're besotted with subscription cable or satellite PVRs for timeshift recording (or in love with the TiVO interface). For every nerd on this recorder forum who enjoys making permanent disc recordings and would rather die than pay a monthly PVR fee, there are 100 everyday consumers who think we're completely out of our minds. They have zero, zilch, nada interest in making their own DVDs or BluRays, and they think our constant harping about monthly fees is a disturbing mental disconnect from reality.

Does this state of affairs make Hollywood happy? You bet, but its merely an accident of fate. Panasonic would love to sell BWT735s to us, but there's no market. A few hundred forum geeks isn't gonna cut it: with the global economy in a tailspin, none of these mfrs is able to throw money down the drain subsidizing eccentric Americans like they did in the '80s and '90s. Them days is gone. And it pays to note Panasonic is struggling to unload these recorders in UK/NZ/Aus: sales have been declining sharply in favor of discless HDD models (cheap TiVOs). Panasonic keeps at it simply because of the expensive exclusivity deal they made with Sony at the dawn of BDR.
The EH59 is not officially sold in North America: its a grey market import that savvy dealers brought in to slake demand from Panasonic cultists (and the inexplicable subset of globe-trotting immigrant businesspeople in New York City who apparently need a recorder for both PAL and NTSC line input). Panasonic designed the EH59 for the Middle Eastern market, where analog PAL broadcasts remain popular. It doesn't have an ATSC tuner because it wasn't intended for sale here at all: heck, the expense of adding an ATSC tuner is what drove Panasonic to drop the EH55 and EH75 from North America in 2006. Holywood had nothing to do with it: Americans were fiercely resistant to the $499 EH55 in 2006, adding ATSC to it would have raised the price to $669 so Panasonic (wisely) followed Sony, Pioneer and Toshiba out the door rather than bother with a pricey DOA update.



While almost all if not all of your points are valid I know for a fact that hollywood, cable & satellite companies along with network tv (pay & otherwise) lobbied hard to put restrictions on what could be recorded and with what today & in the future....... And all of them were successful in putting restrictions on what recorders could do now and in the immediate future. It would be not telling the entire truth to leave that out of your narrative.

These political actions that have been almost word for word of what they lobbied for and wanted have been turned into rules & laws that today and in the near future restrict what consumers can record. I don't care what anyone says this has played a big role in what we are offered here, and will continue to play a real role in what we are offered. Also the switch required in law to HD tv was never about giving consumers a better tv picture, again another industry spun lie. No conspiracy here but a fact, the push to require digital TV was about the industry being able to add a copy guard signal to all tv to prevent consumer recording. The current recently announced plan to remove analog outputs from satellite & cable receivers was part of the plan all along when the industry pushed for the switch. Many don't remember but one of the things the industry told congress to get the switch passed was that they would never make it impossible for consumers to record. But fast forward to today, suddenly that is exactly what they are planning to do!

I have a friend that worked for Sony for years that I have discussed all of this at length. And the issue of americans not being offered these recorders with US needed options is political not a cost issue. What she has told me was that without the restrictions in law here today the costs of making the current world wide offered today available models spec'ed for sale here with US tuners and to US spec options is minimal above current production costs. And from the US/Canada being a added as a market it would not be the money loser claimed but would make the products more viable.
post #245 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

A better question would be if they available for other parts of the world region/ZONE free?? The ones I was looking at were Australian/UK models but I know many of these imports are built for use middle eastern regions. And these buyers want region/ZONE free recorders/players..........
I guess my EH-59s are region free, they are advertised as being so but truthfully I've never played a commercial disc in it, I use one of my many DVD and BD players for that. What would be important and I'm sure it does is to record region free(or all region) discs. My EH-59 does so I can play discs it has recorded on any other player I have.
I don't see any restrictions on Amazon.UK for ordering one of the BD recorders and shipping is free in the UK but I'm sure shipping it to the US would cost a pretty penny. Of course if one knew someone in the UK it wouldn't be a issue but you'd still have to deal with the cost of shipping it here and considering that shipping a DVDR just withing the US costs anywhere from $25 to $50 I can only imagine what shipping from the UK would be......$100????
post #246 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

A better question would be if they available for other parts of the world region/ZONE free?? The ones I was looking at were Australian/UK models but I know many of these imports are built for use middle eastern regions. And these buyers want region/ZONE free recorders/players..........
I guess my EH-59s are region free, they are advertised as being so but truthfully I've never played a commercial disc in it, I use one of my many DVD and BD players for that. What would be important and I'm sure it does is to record region free(or all region) discs. My EH-59 does so I can play discs it has recorded on any other player I have.
I don't see any restrictions on Amazon.UK for ordering one of the BD recorders and shipping is free in the UK but I'm sure shipping it to the US would cost a pretty penny. Of course if one knew someone in the UK it wouldn't be a issue but you'd still have to deal with the cost of shipping it here and considering that shipping a DVDR just withing the US costs anywhere from $25 to $50 I can only imagine what shipping from the UK would be......$100????

 

I got thru to the last step on Amazon UK, but on the NZ site (JB HiFi), I had just entered my U.S. address when the next screen showed this in red:

 

"We currently only ship consumer electronics products to New Zealand and we only ship music, DVD and game products to some countries. You will need to contact us and we will quote you special freight rates and insurance to accommodate the delivery of your order. Please include the details of the items you want shipped.

Please note: Your order can not continue as is. You can go back and remove items from your order or change your delivery country."

post #247 of 270
I haven't found any discs that my -69 couldn't play, my region 1 & 2 discs included......My -69 was manufactured Feb/2013

Has anyone heard anything about the "DMR-XW390 DVD Digital Recorder with 500GB HDD" that just went on sale or is about to.
Quote:
Stunning HD quality and versatile viewing features

The XW390 is a high performance, 500GB hard-drive DVD Digital Recorder. It's easy to operate and features fantastic recording ability, outstanding image and sound quality and a wide range of networking options. The ingenious twin Tuners provide the option of recording two digital TV channels at once, even while you're watching a DVD or a program previously recorded. Throw in Pause Live TV, and you'll never miss a thing!

The DVD recorder's huge functionality includes Viera Cast, so you can access live Internet content including YouTube and Picasa. It also comes equipped with an SD memory card slot and USB terminal to view photos and video images from your camera.





MyFreeviewHD®

With MyFreeviewHD® you'll be in control of your TV viewing. Pause, record and replay live TV to fit around your busy schedule.





DLNA

Enjoy multi content on your PC in a separate room.

Using DLNA technology, Blu-ray Disc™ players and home cinema systems can access files on a DLNA server-compliant PC* or high definition recorders (DIGA)**. By simply connecting to a home network (LAN), you can enjoy AVCHD, WMV, DivX, JPEG, MP3 and WMA on your PC or AVCHD files, recorded programmes and JPEG on your DIGA**.

Find out more about Digital Home Networking with DLNA



Viera Link

Easy operation with a single remote control.

Viera Link lets you operate a Blu-ray Disc™ player and a home cinema system with a single VIERA TV remote control. With VIERA Link there's no more need to switch between multiple remote controls.

Find out more about Viera Link and HDMI
Quote:
Playable DiscsHide DVDDVD-VideoDVD-RAMDVD

Video Recording, AVCHD, JPEGDVD-R/DVD-R DL/DVD-RWDVD-Video,

DVD Video Recording (DVD-RAM / DVD-RW), AVCHD, MP3 (DVD-R / DVD-R DL),

DivX® / DivX HD (DVD-R / DVD-R DL),

JPEG (DVD-R / DVD-R DL)+R/ +R DL/ +RWVideoCD,

CD-R /CD-RWCD-DA, MP3, DivX® / DivX HD,

JPEGBuilt-in Hard DriveHide Built-in Hard Disk Capacity500GB

Audio SystemHide Dolby Digital Plus/ Dolby

TrueHDDecode and Bitstream OutputDTS-HD

Master Audio Essential/ DTS-HD High Resolution

AudioDecode (5.1ch) and Bitstream OutputSD

Memory CardHide Compatible MediaSD / SDHC / SDXC

PlaybackJPEGTransfer to HDDMPEG2,

AVCHD, JPEGTransfer to DVD-RAMMPEG2,

JPEGTransfer from HDD/DVD-RAM

JPEGUSBHide

SlotYesFront

SlotYesUSB StandardUSB2.0

High SpeedPlaybackMP3,

DivX® / DivX HD,

JPEGTransfer to HDDMPEG2, AVCHD, JPEG, MP3Transfer to DVD-RAMMPEG2,

JPEGHigh Quality PictureHide Deep ColourYesHigh Definition Chroma ProcessingYes

1080p Up ConversionYesHigh Quality SoundHide 96kHz Surround Re-MasterYes

Audio D/A Converter192kHz / 24bitEasy to UseHide myfreeviewYes

VIERA Link (HDAVI Control 5)YesRecording 2 Programmes SimultaneouslyYes

Pause Live TVYesDirect TV RecYes

NetworkingHide VIERA ConnectVIERA CASTDLNAY (as server)

TerminalHide HDMI Out Yes

Video OutYes

Optical OutYes

Analogue Audio OutYes

Video InYes

Analogue Audio InYes

LAN (Ethernet) TerminalY (for DLNA Server, VIERA CAST)

TunerHide Tuner SystemDVB-TChannel Coverage

New Zealand UHF: 21-69OthersHide Video SystemPAL / NTSC

Video Recording SystemMPEG-2 (Hybrid VBR) / MPEG4-AVC / H.264

Audio Recording SystemDolby Digital (XP, SP, LP, EP mode: 2ch),

Linear PCM (XP mode), Dolby Digital (DR mode, HG, HX, HE, HL, HM mode:

MAX. 5.1ch [DVB-T]),

HE-AAC (DR mode: 2ch [DVB-T]),

MPEG (DR mode: 2ch)

Power Consumption Normal Use30WPower Consumption Standby

(Power save on)1.1WPower Consumption Standby

(Power save off)7.0WDimensions,

WeightsHide Dimensions (W x H x D excluding the projectingparts)

[Approx.] (mm)430 x 59 x 238 mmWeight [Approx.]3.3 kg

- See more at:

http://www.panasonic.co.nz/products/home-entertainment/dvd-and-blu-ray/dmr-xw390/#sthash.3oKSTmbT.dpuf






It looks like it could be the current model to replace the 59/69. It might mean you need to act soon if you want a 59 or 69..........
Edited by dieselrat - 9/13/13 at 6:59pm
post #248 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

Also the switch required in law to HD tv was never about giving consumers a better tv picture, again another industry spun lie. No conspiracy here but a fact, the push to require digital TV was about the industry being able to add a copy guard signal to all tv to prevent consumer recording.

Not quite. The push toward digital HD broadcasts in USA was part political reaction to being left behind by Japan and Europe, who were ahead of us, and part insane delusions by American TV brands that they could stem their death throes if we came up with our own proprietary DTV system instead of letting Asian mfrs get a cost advantage by adopting the already-evolving EU/NZ/Aus standard. You would not believe the degree of Machiavellian lobbying applied by the likes of Zenith et al. At the time DTV was in development, no one was giving a thought to future recording devices (VCRs ruled, recordable DVD wasn't even on the radar). The primary concerns were that we come up with a superior system of our own to crow about (which was a complete total waste in hindsight, given how hopeless DTV reception issues are compared to analog), and again the demented fantasy that TV market share could be recaptured by American brands. The die was cast when Clinton realized he could plug a huge hole in his budget and take credit for balancing it by selling off the analog airwaves to private investors before engineers were halfway finished with the ATSC compromise spec, a bastard stepchild designed by committee that no one liked except Washington lobbyists.

Quote:
The current recently announced plan to remove analog outputs from satellite & cable receivers was part of the plan all along when the industry pushed for the switch. Many don't remember but one of the things the industry told congress to get the switch passed was that they would never make it impossible for consumers to record. But fast forward to today, suddenly that is exactly what they are planning to do!

Cable and satellite are a universe and law unto themselves: when ATSC was in development, they weren't nearly the force that they are now because the many independent cable systems hadn't yet swallowed each other up to form vast monopolies like the banks did. Their pushes toward ever more control and power are a whole other issue from the broadcast DTV fiasco. The same applies to BluRay, which was indeed created by Sony with every DRM interference they could conceive of. Same with HDMI. But the success of these record-hostile solutions didn't happen in a vacuum: consumers didn't simply roll over and play dead. As much as it pains us here on AVS to admit it, the fact is most consumers just didn't care. Don't think for one second that if cable began to hemorrhage subscribers as they became less hospitable to recording, that they wouldn't have reversed that trend in a heartbeat.

These companies get away with it because most consumers find the tradeoff appealing.

"Oooh: HDMI is a single wire for video and surround sound that can only be plugged in the correct way? Where do I sign up!!!"

"Whats that? It isn't recordable to removable media? Ask me if a give a $#@&" was the majority reaction.

Ditto with cable and satellite subscription PVRs:

"Ooooh! Its integrated with the cable guide grid for idiot-proof timer setting? Records two channels while watching a third? Records the Super Bowl and Grey's Anatomy in HiDef? For $15/mo and if it breaks you give me another one? Where do I sign up for one in each room!!!"

"What's that? It's a closed system that's outright hostile to VCRs and DVD recorders unless you're an unhinged geek on a mission? Well, once again: ask me if I give a $#@&"

Quote:
I have a friend that worked for Sony for years that I have discussed all of this at length. And the issue of americans not being offered these recorders with US needed options is political not a cost issue. What she has told me was that without the restrictions in law here today the costs of making the current world wide offered today available models spec'ed for sale here with US tuners and to US spec options is minimal above current production costs. And from the US/Canada being a added as a market it would not be the money loser claimed but would make the products more viable.

Sony is notorious for internal politics where divisions and executives lie to each other and obfuscate daily. Your friend may sincerely believe this, but if it was true Sony would still be selling DVD and DVD/HDD recorders in EU. They don't: they wound down mfrg of disc recorders in 2010, because profits were thin and sales were declining even in the hot UK market. And they never even *tried* to sell BluRay recorders outside of Japan at all: they knew it would be an uphill slog, so they conned poor Panasonic into buying exclusive rights to make and market them instead.

You know people at Sony, I knew people at Pioneer: when Sony was the most popular DVD/HDD recorder in the world from 2005-2009 they were actually co-produced with Pioneer. When the ATSC ruling came down from Washington, Sony and Pioneer together decided "we're outta here" and dropped DVD/HDD recorders from USA distribution rather than update the tuners. The reason given point-blank to the wholesale electronics industry trade press was "you tell us you can't sell them at $449, well adding ATSC will up the price to $649, so it makes no sense for us or you to bother." Toshiba and Panasonic agreed: all four bailed between late 2005 and early 2007. All these brands welcomed the ATSC ruling as an excuse to get out of the money-losing premium recorder market in USA that had been dogging their balance sheets for years: the ruling just let them save face doing it. Its easy to forget now, but the price difference between analog and ATSC dvd recorders and dvd/vhs combos was $100+ in 2007. Panasonic was selling their ATSC dvd/vhs for $399. It took a couple years for the price to drop, and it was still so much that "tunerless" recorders began to proliferate (invented exclusively for the decoder-box-dependent USA market).

Japan Inc. does not leave money on the table: if there were the slightest chance of profit in USA/Canada you would see BD/HDD recorders on the shelves of Best Buy. The reason we don't have them is our dependence on cable boxes: the machines would have to be modified to add an analog HDTV line input, or HDMI input, which is not available (or necessary) in any other country and would cause problems with Hollywood. The stupid decoder box would still make the damn things as annoying to use as existing DVD/HDD recorders: timer programming would be a nightmare. This cable mess had already started in VCR era, and it killed DVD/HDD recorders dead in USA. We here on AVS would buy an equally crippled BD/HDD version of the EH59, but nobody else in their right mind would. Panasonic only manages to sell them in EU/NZ/Aus because all the programming in those countries can be captured by their internal generic OTA / satellite tuners. Sales are declining anyway regardless of capability: all over the world, people are migrating to video files instead of discs.

I'm really not arguing with you, and I don't dispute that Hollywood loves this and did/does all it can to frustrate easy video recording, or that Sony's hands are are unclean from its incestuous involvement. But Hollywood's power only goes so far: they tried to derail the VCR, and failed because consumers loved the product and mfrs made money on them. If enough consumers wanted to buy BD recorders at a realistic price, we'd have them. But its unlikely, esp now that the product is nearing the end of its cultural relevance globally. The ever-increasing cable box dependency renders them moot, anyway: if your'e gonna be stuck with a DRM-infested line-input-only recorder with no ability to change its own channels in timer mode, what's the point? It makes more sense to go cheap with a USB PVR for your PC, or spend the same money for a lifetime TiVO package that can dump HDTV recordings to your PC. Either can be had with a CableCard tuner, BD recorders cannot.

Quote:
Has anyone heard anything about the "DMR-XW390 DVD Digital Recorder with 500GB HDD" that just went on sale or is about to.It looks like it could be the current model to replace the 59/69. It might mean you need to act soon if you want a 59 or 69..........

Its just a facelift of the same model they've been selling in EU/NZ/Aus for the past several years. Its unlikely to replace the EH59/69 as the "grey market king" here or in the Middle East, because it includes the DVB-T tuner not needed in those regions. Also bear in mind, the models with DVB-T tuners are dependent on the electronic program guide transmitted in those broadcasts to set timer recordings. That EPG isn't some lame half-assed poorly-supported commercial service like it was in USA/Canada: it is mandated in DVB-T broadcasts. So those models assume the guide signal will always be there. The afterthought manual timer override would not be appealing to the Middle Eastern target consumer, nor would a timer screen cluttered up with dead empty guide windows.

The design of the EH59/69 has barely changed going back seven or more years: other than a few added convenience features its the same as the previous EH57 and EH58. They seem to have frozen the design at EH59 three years ago, since the unit hasn't been updated since. They'll likely keep it going until the tooling wears out, like they did with the Technics SL1200MkII turntable
Edited by CitiBear - 9/14/13 at 11:19am
post #249 of 270
In my opinion, the lack of BluRay recorders in the US is purely a lack-of-market thing. For people who simply want to record for time-shifting, there are many other options that are so much more convenient, user friendly and designed specifically for the time-shifting task than buying a box designed to burn disks. Why would any time-shifter in their right mind spend $500+ for a BD recorder with a single tuner and VCR-style time-date programming when for $200 more they could buy a 4-tuner TiVo with integrated guide, cable card capability and totally user-friendly UI.

For the set of people who really want to record HDTV for archival purposes, there are a lot of options to do so now. But one has to recognize and admit -- burning disks is so outdated. Storing recordings on HDD's is the way of today. I record a lot of HDTV -- yes it can be done quite easily, just not at funai/walmart prices. Much of it recorded on speculation and never to be watched if it turns out to be trash. With the upcoming fall season I'm counting 28+ season passes for new and returning shows. All of this goes onto HDD's where it awaits its fate. Some will be deleted as trash. Some will be watched, enjoyed and deleted because we know we will never watch it again (so why bother keeping it other than to be a pack-rat). Some will be watched, enjoyed and deemed a keeper -- at which point it will be edited to remove commercials, recoded to H.264/AVC and given a permanent place on one of the servers so it can be streamed to any networked TV in the house. People who do this are on other AVS forums, not here. Nobody talks about burning disks -- what's the point. A DVD recorder to them is no better than a VCR. But, of course, if you did want to burn a disk it is a simple matter of popping in a BD-R and doing so. In fact, if you are OK with a menu that is nothing more than a simple title list to pick from, burning a BD-R is simpler than burning a DVD-R.

There was a recent report in one of the HD threads that a simple 1x2 HDMI splitter box, sold on Amazon for $25, could be put between the HDMI output of a STB and the HDMI input of the Hauppauge 1512 HD-PVR and it somehow bypasses HDCP so the HD-PVR can record it. The poster claims to be doing it and has tested the same output stream with and without the splitter in place to verify HDCP was active. If it can be verified that would be an amazing finding.
post #250 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Why would any time-shifter in their right mind spend $500+ for a BD recorder with a single tuner and VCR-style time-date programming when for $200 more they could buy a 4-tuner TiVo with integrated guide, cable card capability and totally user-friendly UI.
I'm not disagreeing with your post but for ~$600(what I understand the Panasonic BD recorder would cost, door to door to the US) one would get a 1TB HD recorder with dual HD tuners(like our Tivo HD) and a built in free guide similar to Tivos(not sure how far it goes out but much more than our pathetic free PSIP) and if you liked what you recorded the option to burn to BDs.
Compare this to a Tivo Premiere ($600+ with lifetime) dual tuners and no ability to directly burn a archive disc. IMO in this comparison the Panny wins, well I doubt the Panny has a equivalent to a Season Pass(also called title based recording) which I use a ton, so in that case the Tivo wins but IMO the two are really closer than one might think.
Of course the comparison is a pie in the sky comparison since the Pannys tuner won't work here and as it is it won't really record HD for us N. Americans but if something like this was available here and if we had a nice free guide like in Europe, I think something like this just may give Tivo a run for their money(until Tivos lawyers got involved and sued Panasonic for some type of patent infringement tongue.gif).
post #251 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

[...]t for ~$600(what I understand the Panasonic BD recorder would cost, door to door to the US) one would get a 1TB HD recorder with dual HD tuners(like our Tivo HD) and a built in free guide similar to Tivos(not sure how far it goes out but much more than our pathetic free PSIP) and if you liked what you recorded the option to burn to BDs.[...]if something like this was available here and if we had a nice free guide like in Europe, I think something like this just may give Tivo a run for their money(until Tivos lawyers got involved and sued Panasonic for some type of patent infringement tongue.gif).

jjeff, it keeps circling back to the elephant in the room that separates the USA/Canada market from everywhere else in the world: we have unfettered monopolistic cable and satellite providers who dominate over the free airwaves by a huge margin. In USA/Canada, if you don't have cable or satellite, you're either an elite who doesn't watch much TV, a (very very) poor person who can't afford it, or an eccentric. The requirement of a decoder box for the full complement of channels defeats DVD and BluRay recorders in the same manner as pouring sugar in your car's gas tank renders it useless as transportation.

I know I'm beating a dead horse with this conversation, but I'm gonna take this one last stab at it. USA/Canada have huge penetration of proprietary cable and satellite that is essentially not compatible with the tuners built into generic ATSC/QAM recorders. You're stuck using line input, which reduces your timer recording options to zilch: one channel, one event, and thats it. More and more cable/sat providers are deactivating the supplementary timer they once offered in the decoder box, which at least allowed the more clever among us to coordinate timers and still retain multi-channel ability in the recorder. No typical everyday consumer is going to pay $600 for something that can only record a single cable/sat channel unattended.

This trend of cable/sat being incompatible with generic recorders was already underway back in 2006, which is why nifty analog-tuner machines like the Panasonic EH55, Toshiba XS and Pioneer DVR-640 slacked off in sales and were discontinued. People expect one-touch convenience: any kind of setup complication with the channels or any ongoing annoyance with timer recording becomes a huge turnoff. This is why TiVO thrives as a niche recorder and the PVR option for cable/satellite is so incredibly popular: they just work as people expect.

DVD/HDD and BluRay/HDD recorders were always more popular in EU/NZ/Aus than in North America, precisely because they DO function almost exactly like "a TiVO that burns discs" in those countries. The OTA broadcasts are standard across countries, the EPG program guide is *mandated* to be embedded in those broadcasts so that all recorders can employ them, and the lion's share of satellite programming is also held to a standard tuning spec that the more expensive recorders can also include internally. Since there is no requirement for a decoder box and no infighting among a half dozen proprietary monopolies, all TV signals can be recorded directly off the generic tuners built into the recorder. No decoder box means no external HiDef inputs for Hollywood to worry about, and every convenience becomes available to the consumer.

This is not the case in North America and never will be. If Panasonic were to introduce their DMR-BWT735 BluRay/HDD here tomorrow, modified with dual ATSC/QAM tuners and selling for $600, it would tank without a second look. They could only seriously be considered for off-air use, but the type of person who limits themselves to off-air in North America is unlikely to spend $600 to record it. Nobody's interested in archiving off-air nonsense like "The X Factor" and "DWTS" - the people still interested in recording a library want to record "Mad Men" or "Homeland" or "Breaking Bad" or "Walking Dead". This requires cable, and the QAM recorder tuners that were supposed to be our salvation in that regard turned out to be a dysfunctional joke. Other than a handful of wingnuts here on AVS (myself included) who would still stubbornly find a use for them, there is no North American market for a $600 recorder that can't patch *directly* and *unrestricted* into our shady cable and satellite providers.
post #252 of 270
Boy! This thread has really come back to life simply by resurrecting an old argument that we have gone over and over again in the past. I suppose there are those that think new machines like the DMR-BWT735EB have changed the overall landscape, but in reality, nothing of significance has changed. Blu-ray recorders are not here--it's that simple. If the manufacturers thought that there was a market here capable of pulling in a reasonable profit, they would be making them, and selling them here. If there was money to be had, they would find some way around the legal and technical issues. They are not making a product because it isn't worth the cost of doing so. I agree though, that since these manufacturers are making televisions with appropriate tuners that work, they could easily put that same technology into a BR recorder. Since they are not, I am forced to conclude that the too-thin profit margin is what's preventing them.

I wish it weren't so. frown.gif

Oh, and I resent being called a wingnut! eek.gif I am a nonconformist eccentric. biggrin.gif
post #253 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

jjeff, it keeps circling back to the elephant in the room....
Of course you are correct and being OTA only I kind of forget that basically the rest of the world has pay TV. I personally only can think of 2 other people who don't have pay TV, my mother and father......guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree tongue.gif Everyone else either has cable or satellite and as Citibear said with either something like this BD recorder doesn't do them very good frown.gif
Panasonic(and a few others) kind of tried it with it's EH-55 with TVGOS and a IR blaster where the EH-55 contained a nice free 7 day programming grid and the ability to change the channel on your STB but TVGOS is dead and most of the new cable boxes use codes not in the outdated EH-55s memory.
For the geeks like us this BD recorder might be cool, the ability to record programs(from it's line input) and easily burn to either DVD or BD but we are a tiny minority of the average public and mfgs. couldn't get rich just selling to us frown.gif I still might be interested in something like this but considering I already have quite a collection of DVD recorders I'll have to really think about it.....
post #254 of 270
we are a pretty smart group here, is there anyone here that could come up with a way to feed a HD signal into one of these offered today HDD Blu-Ray recorders that doesn't cost a fortune??? Or were they designed in some way to prevent this????
post #255 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

we are a pretty smart group here, is there anyone here that could come up with a way to feed a HD signal into one of these offered today HDD Blu-Ray recorders that doesn't cost a fortune??? Or were they designed in some way to prevent this????

Basically you just need to find a Blu-Ray recorder with some kind of inputs...



Best solution will be to feed a a Hauppuage HD PVR 2 or a PixelMagic MTV-7000D with a nice HD source.
post #256 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

we are a pretty smart group here, is there anyone here that could come up with a way to feed a HD signal into one of these offered today HDD Blu-Ray recorders that doesn't cost a fortune??? Or were they designed in some way to prevent this????
You can do this very cheaply and easily with a PC. Assuming you can't use the PC you're posting on this forum with, just get about any PC from ebay or Goodwill for a few bucks, add a Hauppauge 2650, and you can record anything on cable TV in full HD, get a full guide and interface just like a Tivo for free with Windows Media Center. To watch your recordings, just plug in an HDMI cable and get an IR remote dongle. Get a BD drive for you PC if you want to transfer to BD. This can all be done for less than the cost of your average DVD recorder and far less than the cost of a BD recorder. I've been doing this very thing for over 2 years now and it's worked beautifully.
post #257 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

You can do this very cheaply and easily with a PC. Assuming you can't use the PC you're posting on this forum with, just get about any PC from ebay or Goodwill for a few bucks, add a Hauppauge 2650, and you can record anything on cable TV in full HD, get a full guide and interface just like a Tivo for free with Windows Media Center. To watch your recordings, just plug in an HDMI cable and get an IR remote dongle. Get a BD drive for you PC if you want to transfer to BD. This can all be done for less than the cost of your average DVD recorder and far less than the cost of a BD recorder. I've been doing this very thing for over 2 years now and it's worked beautifully.

I have a really nice one I built about ~7 years ago I could use for this but I really wanted a stand alone unit for this something like what they are selling today in the UK/Aust/NZ if possible..........
post #258 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

I have a really nice one I built about ~7 years ago I could use for this but I really wanted a stand alone unit for this something like what they are selling today in the UK/Aust/NZ if possible..........
Try to think outside the box a little. If you prefer, your PC need not be anywhere near your TV or connected to it at all. Think of the PC the same as you would a Netflix server, out of sight, out of mind. Below is the only thing connected to your TV. It gives you access to live TV, and all your recordings, videos, music and photos via a standard IR remote. I've got one of these on each of the 4 TVs in my house.


http://cetoncorp.com/products/echo/
Edited by mdavej - 9/18/13 at 5:45am
post #259 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

I have two questions for you. 1) can that machine be purchased and shipped to an address in the United States? 2) will it ever play back DVDs or BR disks that are region 1 or Zone A? To have a record only device seems kind of odd, like write-only memory or something. biggrin.gif Otherwise, it seems like a really good machine for as you say, putting a whole season of Castle on one or two disks. eek.gif

At the current exchange rate, it's $600 plus change, and that's without shipping and VAT. Still, that's what I paid for both of my EH55s, and that was some time ago when the dollar was worth something. tongue.gif If you can actually get it, I'd be interested too.


VAT gets deducted for outside EU purchases.

i know with all the AU Pana DVD recorders they come region free from Pana Au. They convert them to region free here. As far as i know it just involved a special remote to do it or they get into service mode somehow. All i know is that it was something i did not have to worry about doing as it came region free anyway. I do not know if Pana UK ones are made region free. I also have no idea about the Blu ray side of things either, but i seem to think that out Blu ray players/recorders come locked as all the forums where people were asking for region free blu ray were recommending Oppos or cheap no name $70 ones.

Also you can pretty much safely assume any recorderes from PAL regions WILL accept NTSC in via composite and S-video. Thats been standard across many brands for many years..
post #260 of 270
Cyclone82, doesn't Amazon have a AU presence? I checked both Amazon US and UK but neither had links to AU......they have Japan, India, Brazil, etc. but not AU confused.gif
I believe like the US the majority of the UK devices(for sure major brands like Panasonic) are locked to their region, Australia seems to be somewhat unique that they have easy access to region free devices even on major brands. Like the US I really doubt it would be easy for the average consumer to unlock a Panasonic from the UK, it would probably only play commercial discs from the UK region. Personally I'd be OK with that as I never really play commercial discs on my recorders but for maximum flexibility it would be nice if it were region free, which is why I was wondering about Amazon in AU. Purchasing from Amazon(assuming they would ship to the US) would be easy for payment and shipping for most Americans.

Do you have access to something like the Panasonic DMR-BWT735EB in Australia or is it maybe a UK only model?
I agree with your NTSC line input statement, what I'm not positive about is if the devices would be multi voltage/frequency, meaning they would work on our 120v 60hz as well as your 240v 50hz.....
Edited by jjeff - 9/30/13 at 1:27pm
post #261 of 270
No theres no Amazon AU. I will look for that model here though. I am 99% sure it will be 220-240 volts 50hz only. I looked at my other Pana recorders and they all say that. I would say you will need a voltage up converter. The EH59 etc must have a auto sensing power supply in them to allow them to run on 120V. but since they are designed for PAL regions like asia, middle east etc, i wonder why they would be 120v compatible?? are there some countries other than USA and Japan that use 110-120v? Some gear that has been sold here over the years has been multi volt. I got a couple JVC VCR's that are strictly for PAL regions but they can run on 120v.

One thing you want to keep in mind that Panasonic started dropping s-video on a lot of out models about 2 years ago. Our stuff does not normally have scart now either

http://www.harveynorman.com.au/panasonic-dmr-bwt835-blu-ray-recorder-with-1tb-hdd.html

I see someone i USA has been selling Pana BD recorders

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221243216016

this is what we got now

http://www.panasonic.com.au/Products/DVD+and+Blu-ray/Blu-ray+-+players+and+recorders/Product+listing

for any of the AU models, google the numbers and on options menu select to search in Australia only.

the DMR XW390 was mentioned a few pages back. My advice is dont bother with it and get a EH59 instead as at least you have component and multiple s-video/composite/scart ins/outs

maybe an ebay seller would ship to USA if you ask?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Panasonic-DMR-BWT835-3D-Blu-ray-PVR-Recorder-1GB-Twin-HD-Tuner-DMRBWT720-/121106893554?pt=AU_DigitalVideoRecorders&hash=item1c32888af2
Edited by Cyclone82 - 10/1/13 at 12:39am
post #262 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

No theres no Amazon AU. I will look for that model here though. I am 99% sure it will be 220-240 volts 50hz only. I looked at my other Pana recorders and they all say that. I would say you will need a voltage up converter. The EH59 etc must have a auto sensing power supply in them to allow them to run on 120V. but since they are designed for PAL regions like asia, middle east etc, i wonder why they would be 120v compatible?? are there some countries other than USA and Japan that use 110-120v? Some gear that has been sold here over the years has been multi volt. I got a couple JVC VCR's that are strictly for PAL regions but they can run on 120v.

One thing you want to keep in mind that Panasonic started dropping s-video on a lot of out models about 2 years ago. Our stuff does not normally have scart now either

http://www.harveynorman.com.au/panasonic-dmr-bwt835-blu-ray-recorder-with-1tb-hdd.html

I see someone i USA has been selling Pana BD recorders

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221243216016

this is what we got now

http://www.panasonic.com.au/Products/DVD+and+Blu-ray/Blu-ray+-+players+and+recorders/Product+listing

for any of the AU models, google the numbers and on options menu select to search in Australia only.

the DMR XW390 was mentioned a few pages back. My advice is dont bother with it and get a EH59 instead as at least you have component and multiple s-video/composite/scart ins/outs

maybe an ebay seller would ship to USA if you ask?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Panasonic-DMR-BWT835-3D-Blu-ray-PVR-Recorder-1GB-Twin-HD-Tuner-DMRBWT720-/121106893554?pt=AU_DigitalVideoRecorders&hash=item1c32888af2

the -59 & -69 just like the current Blu-ray recorders do not say on the back they are 110 60hz capable but they all are. I am using a -69 right now on US power. All you need are some kind of adaptor to plug into our power. I have a polarized US wire off a old fan that had the same connector as is on the back of the recorder to get power to my -69. I came up with this setup after the place I bought mine from forgot to put a US adaptor plug in the box. I knew I had a couple of those wires that the china built wal-mart sold 20 " box fans used about 7-10 years ago

That must be a common setup to use that female plug in the back of the device around the world to build things for different parts of the world with different plugs. I have had many electronic & electric devices( recorders, fans, TVs, ect.....) that used that same two wire female/male plug design

On the ebay sellers add you supplied it states that the Blu-Ray HDD recorders are region free. That is a question that has been asked a few times by people like me interested in getting one of these.

Quote:
Panasonic DMR-BWT720 MULTIREGION 3D BLURAY RECORDER 1TB SR HD (BWT700 HX780) (#221243216016) It looks like this one sold for ~$1,000 USD


Panasonic DMR-BWT700 REGION FREE 3D Bluray Recorder 320GB JVC SR HD HX780 (#221251979380) It looks like this one sold for ~$455


note, both are listed as used. The place that the seller is located is the same place/city where Panasonic carries out repairs in North America today. These could be/likely are refurbished or repaired recorders someone is selling that they got from the US/Canada/Mexico factory repair center there.
Edited by dieselrat - 10/1/13 at 6:48am
post #263 of 270
Yeah i would not be too worried about the power issue. Its not going to blow up feeding a 240v unit 120v. it will either work or it wont. I say try it first and it most likely will and there will be no need for an up converter. If the EH59/69 you guys are using does not say 110-240 and does run fine on 110/120 then we can probably assume the EU and AU/NZ models that are only labeled 220-240 would be fine on110/120 too. I just cant see why they would have many different power supplies. You would think they keep things simple and just have 2, for all the different models, well probably one now since no panasonic recorders are made specifically for 110/120 markets now that i know of. Maybe Japan???
Edited by Cyclone82 - 10/1/13 at 3:48pm
post #264 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselrat View Post

we are a pretty smart group here, is there anyone here that could come up with a way to feed a HD signal into one of these offered today HDD Blu-Ray recorders that doesn't cost a fortune??? Or were they designed in some way to prevent this????

You would need to cobble together some kind of interface that would take the HDMI output of a decoder box, strip the HDCP DRM protection, and convert it to the specific type of USB signal output by the handful of HDTV camcorders that these Panasonic BD/HDD recorders will recognize and accept as external HDTV input. Possible, yes, likely, no: mostly because there's no real pressing need for such a hack to motivate an inventor. It isn't as if we're totally prevented from making HDTV recordings and burning BDs in any other manner: the overwhelming majority of BluRay enthusiasts author and burn their discs in a HTPC. As long as that option exists, it pretty much negates any necessity in USA/Canada for hacking the odd foreign BD recorder. And don't forget, in the regions where those recorders are officially sold, there is no need *whatever* for such a hack, because all HDTV programming enters the machine via its internal broadcast and satellite tuners.

There is ONE alternative we haven't rehashed yet, for those with unlimited budgets and a fetish for standalone recorders. profhat hinted at it with his photo of the JVC industrial BD/HDD recorder, but didn't provide any details. JVC Professional Products North America sells the tunerless BD/HDD SR-HD2500US for $3,595. This unit has full-scale professional unrestricted HD-SDI digital HDTV input that is presumably not locked to just a handful of consumer camcorder output signals. One could program their PC to function as a timer for the JVC via its RS-232C controller port. And in theory, it should be possible to connect a pro adapter box like the $995 Black Magic bidirectional HD-SDI/Component/HDMI converter between a cable/satellite decoder and the JVC, giving us the same capabilities of 2006 US/Canada DVD recorders in BluRay guise. Of course, at prohibitive cost and little or no ability to change channels unattended.

You can pick up a TiVO with lifetime (no monthly fee) service, four HDTV tuners and CableCard compatibility for around $700. Network it to dump files to your PC for swappable HDD or BluRay or DVD archiving. The value, convenience and versatility of such a setup are unmatched by any other product one could use in USA/Canada OTA or cable households. Satellite is more restrictive, but you'd still get more out of a Hauppauge PVR accessory for your PC than any imported BD/HDD recorder. I understand the allure of standalone disc/hdd recorders, I really do: I currently have four Pioneer models running in my system and will be very unhappy when they finally croak. I transitioned from VCRs to DVD/HDD recorders, and have a lifelong affection for standalone recording. But this is a dying paradigm across the globe, and we either adapt to the changes or get a new hobby. Do not construe the existence of overseas Panasonic BD/HDD recorders to have any deeper relevance than the fact Panasonic paid Sony an obscene upfront licensing fee for near-exclusive global rights to market such recorders. They aren't selling that well anymore: UK consumers have preferred the cheaper discless HDD-only versions of the same machines for the past couple years.
post #265 of 270
I am still learning all of the features on my new -69. I have a few questions for anyone that has more experience with this unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by me 
On my -E80H you can record programs, split programs off of the recorded program then insert sections of the recorded program out of the list recorded order when recording in FR. The option of recording in a list out of the order they are in on the recorded list(insert edit) is really useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by me 
My question is, Can this be done on my -69???



Example of what I am interested in doing with my -69.........:,
Quote:
Originally Posted by me 

I record a series of programs off of the DVR with the title & date info in front of each recording. Usually three edited episodes, 0:42-0:45 mins each (2:07-2:15 in FR mode)..... When all the programs are edited I split off the titles putting them together in front of all of the recorded programs out of order from the recorded list.......

1)title & episode...aI )then I split off the recorded title creating program 1) & 2) on the list

2)title & episode........aII )then I split off the recorded title creating program 3) & 4) on the list

3)title & episode........aIII )then I split off the recorded title creating program 5) & 6) on the list


I then record them off the list in this order on the -E80H:

titles(1, 3, 5,) / actual program( 2, 4, 6)..........

I haven't been able to figure out if that was possible yet.

I have in the past used this function to insert deleted scenes into movies & programs. I also use this function to split & collect titles recorded at the beginning of a program then putting them at the front of the entire recording.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by me 
Can you change the thumbnail image to something you choose instead of it being the image at the beginning of the recorded program???

I have figured how to do this on my Lite-On HDD/DVD recorder but haven't been able to find a menu to do this on my -69.

post #266 of 270
Can't find the /// Quote thingy, but the EH59/69 has all the features of the EH55 plus the RENEW carried over from the E100H.

I've done a fair amount of editting, most recently on the EH55. Dieselrat, you didn't mention the PLAYLIST feature (Press FUNCTION, then OTHERS), which i use for all my editting. Any title on the HDD, or any part of a title (by making chapters in the PLAYLIST and deleting the unwanted), can be placed on the PLAYLIST in any sequence and as often as desired. The PLAYLIST makes no changes to the source on the HDD, making "Oops" a minor event.

And Yes, you can change the Thumbnail on the source title and on the PLAYLIST.

When ready to go to DVD with your masterpiece, you go to Advanced Copy to build your COPYLIST from source titles and/or PLAYLISTs, as desired. Each entry on the COPYLIST becomes a title on the DVD. Until Finalized, you can go in and change the Title Name and / or Thumbnail on the dvd. And give the DVD a name.
post #267 of 270
dieselrat,

Like Richard said, what you are looking for is the PLAYLIST feature. You can make a PLAYLIST out of portions of TITLES put together in any way you want. As he said, a PLAYLIST is merely a marker to the actual program material in the TITLES so you can edit the playlist, delete material, shuffle it around, repeat a segment as many times as you want, and it does not change the original title at all--it stays intact, just as you recorded it. It is pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it, and is a VERY powerful feature of the recorder.

And before you ask, no, unfortunately, there is no way to change the date representation to the month/day/year that we use here. You are stuck with the day/month/year display, and the 24 hour clock rather than the 12 hour AM/PM clock. That's just the way it is I guess. rolleyes.gif
post #268 of 270
I have a question for someone more familiar with the -69 settings...


Somehow last night by accident I re-enabled the display clock so it is now showing the time when turned off. I want to set it back to not showing the clock when turned off.

I looked for the setting in the menu to turn off the display when the unit is off but couldn't find it. I liked it being blank when it was turned off.. Can someone give me the step by step to turn the clock display when off back to the way I had it before???

Thanks..
post #269 of 270

You want to enable the power save feature. It doesn't really say it will blank the display when OFF but it does, and it's they way I have mine set ;)

I'm not near mine so I can't tell you the exact wording of the setting but it's under SETUP. The disadvantage is the recorder will take several(15??) seconds to turn on, to me it's worth it and the setting reduces power consumption when OFF considerably.

post #270 of 270
thanks that was it!! I had set it to come on quicker but didn't realize that would turn on the clock...
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