Official OPPO BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread - Page 6

Maybe I can sell the decal on eBay. It'd be like selling SI badges to Honda Civic owners. +15db SNR just by installing the decal!

"With the upgrade, the audio performance will be identical to the Special Edition player. However, the upgrade does not include replacing the front panel since it does not affect audio performance. As a result, there will be no Special Edition mark printed on the front panel. A Special Edition decal sticker will be provided for you to optionally place on the front panel."

-Bill

They're offering a pretty good deal for BDP-83 owners for this type of upgrade. Now if you have bought a BDP-83 with RS-232 option then that's a bit less of a deal.

Actually you do. Read the writeup on the Oppo site.

The front panel isn't changed so you don't get the silk-screened SE logo found on a new SE. But they include an SE stick on decal that you can apply yourself if you wish.
--Bob

So to make sure I fully understand if I use HDMi to my pre/pro it is not worth it?

How about for CD playback if I use coaxial bitstream? Is it worth upgrading!

Only worth it if you're using the analog outputs, so no to both of your questions.

No, the upgrade is for the analog 2-ch and multi-channel only.

-Bill

Don't laugh. Judging from some of the stuff people buy, there probably are folks out there who think applying the decal will improve the sound. Stiffening the front plate or changing the center of gravity or deadening reflections or some such....
--Bob

Well, I knew I was dumb, and now apparently blind. Next comes deaf.
My bad...

When you're deaf you won't need the audio upgrade.

Can bass management be applied to the stereo analog outs of the SE or is it just for people with separate full range stereo speakers? I other words can you run cables from the stereo outs from the SE to the front L/R inputs of the 7.1 analog inputs on a pre/pro and still use a subwoofer?

That, of course, would depend on the design of the pre/pro.

Sure you can, but a receiver that provides that may very well ALSO provide it on it's stereo analog inputs. I.e., 2.0 channel analog input to 2.1 speaker output (L/R/SUB).

Done either way, this will typically require setting the receiver to redigitize the analog input, as bass management is almost always something done in the digital audio domain.
--Bob

I would think, as Kal referenced, generally not, but it wouldn't preclude you from running to the stereo analog inputs elsewhere, such as one labeled 'CD'. For many AVRs, these are configured with bass steering to a sub.

Aha! Now we may be getting somewhere. If the above is true then the pre/pro is using analog bass management isn't it?
Hmmm. That would make 8 analog cables......

It is highly unlikely a pre-pro would be doing bass management entirely in analog.

Whether you conect the stereo analog output of the Oppo to a stereo analog input of the pre-pro or to the LF/RF channels of its multi-channel analog input -- leaving the others unconnected -- if the pre-pro offers bass management in either case it is almost a certainty it is digitizing the analog input before doing that.
--Bob

Most, (if not all), AVRs with DSP and bass management apply this to regular stereo analog inputs, so there's no real need for it in the player. IOW, limitations for multi-channel analog inputs on the average AVR/Pre-pro do not apply to stereo analog inputs. Now, if you use "direct" mode in your processor/AVR, that eliminates DSP and BM. But that's a choice not a limitation.

Why must that be? Very few can do analog bass management. In general, getting BM from an analog source requires re-digitization which, it seems to me, would not be desirable in this case.

As long as one is willing to encumber another A/D/A cycle.

An excellent point, though not relevant to the BM question asked.

But people do need to be aware that feeding the stereo analog out from this player to any stereo analog input of most AVRs and pre-pro will result in an additional A-D -> D-A conversion process which negates any benefits from the DAC in the player. Even in "direct" mode, some AVRs may still be doing the conversions.

This player really should be considered mainly for pure analog systems.

Agreed. OTOH, there are a few exceptions.

Such as...?

Oh, I see. So there would be a a/d/a conversion at the pre/pro analog stereo inputs thus negating the superior stereo dacs in the SE. Thanks for the information. I'll just have to wait for reviews of the SE 7.1 section.

ordered my upgrade and will be boxing my player up tonight for shipment tomorrow. Hopefully turnaround won't take to long.

Ok, so let's sum this up as it applies to these two critical parameters:

(1) assume an A/V receiver purchased specifically for its better-than-average sounding two-channel music reproduction (such as Arcam 600, NAD 775/785, or the Marantz 6003/7002/8002), and

(2) assume that the stereo speaker system is NOT full range, but very high quality monitors coupled with an appropriate subwoofer.

In such a system, the subwoofer is connected to the SW output on the receiver, and the Bass Management function of the receiver is engaged.

Now along comes this new Oppo 83SE. Yes, we read on Oppo's website that the new DACs are intended as an upgrade only where the analog outputs of the Oppo are utilized. Got it.

However, if the receiver's Bass Management is in operation, and if it is correct that this is a digital function, not analog, then this means that there is an additional analog-to-digital conversion, which, in turn, means that the upgraded DACs and additional $400 of the Oppo 83SE are wasted, and ultimately no better than the standard Oppo 83. Is that about it?

If so, what a shame. I've listened to TERRIFIC, higher-end music systems that incorporated speaker configurations of monitor pair coupled with an excellent subwoofer.

Howard

Off the top of my head, the Anthem D2 and the nht Processor will do analog all the way through. I think the Cary 11 will, too. I know squat about AVRs.

You can add the Nuforce AVP-16/17

I wonder how long they'll have the upgrade path available.

Need to save/hide a few more nickles...

Well it doesn't negate *ANY* benefits from the DAC in the player.

A simple thought experiment proves that.

Suppose the DAC in your 83 is broken and the DAC in your 83SE is working. Feed both into a pre-pro that re-digitizes the analog input and does even just an average job of handling that. Obviously even with a modest pre-pro the 83SE will still sound better than the broken 83.

So the REAL question is, given that the analog audio improvement moving from an 83 to an 83SE will be subtle, is the re-digitizing and subsequent processing in your pre-pro *GOOD ENOUGH* to preserve that improvement and pass it along to the speakers?

The quality of the output DACs in the pre-pro play a role in that, as does the quality of its analog input re-digitizing circuit.
--Bob

I wouldn't say it's wasted, but clearly not fully realized. The same process will apply to ANY setup whether it's with the -83SE or not. The general rule with audio is that no matter what you put it through, the better it is to start with the better it is when you're done. So you might still realize some improvements. Whether it's a significant improvement over the standard -83 remains to be seen. But common sense would dictate that in the above scenario, it might make more sense to just use digital out from the player and skip the extra A-D conversion if you must have DSP.