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Official OPPO BDP-83SE Analog Audio Discussion Only Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Don't forget, for that price you ALSO get RS-232 added AND the SE souvenir decal!
--Bob

Maybe I can sell the decal on eBay. It'd be like selling SI badges to Honda Civic owners. +15db SNR just by installing the decal!
post #152 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Most likely not... and with the "upgrade" option you don't get the SE decal either. The front of the player will be unchanged.
To get front changed, you'll have to buy a whole new SE unit, then keep or sell your old BDP-83 on your own.

"With the upgrade, the audio performance will be identical to the Special Edition player. However, the upgrade does not include replacing the front panel since it does not affect audio performance. As a result, there will be no Special Edition mark printed on the front panel. A Special Edition decal sticker will be provided for you to optionally place on the front panel."

-Bill
post #153 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I don't get the price difference. It is 281.00 to update the BDP-83 if you currently own one but $400.00 more if you buy the SE version. Not sure I follow this as it seems that unless you already own one you have to pay an additional $119.00 for the SE.

Bill

They're offering a pretty good deal for BDP-83 owners for this type of upgrade. Now if you have bought a BDP-83 with RS-232 option then that's a bit less of a deal.
post #154 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Most likely not... and with the "upgrade" option you don't get the SE decal either. The front of the player will be unchanged.
To get front changed, you'll have to buy a whole new SE unit, then keep or sell your old BDP-83 on your own.

Actually you do. Read the writeup on the Oppo site.

The front panel isn't changed so you don't get the silk-screened SE logo found on a new SE. But they include an SE stick on decal that you can apply yourself if you wish.
--Bob
post #155 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

At the core, the BDP-83 and the BDP-SE are identical. The only benefit of the BDP-83SE over that of the BDP-83 is the enhanced ANALOG AUDIO performance. Because audio performance is a very subjective and often heated subject, I felt it was prudent to start a new thread as to not interfere with the general discussion of the BDP-83/BDP-83SE.

So to make sure I fully understand if I use HDMi to my pre/pro it is not worth it?

How about for CD playback if I use coaxial bitstream? Is it worth upgrading!
post #156 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

So to make sure I fully understand if I use HDMi to my pre/pro it is not worth it?

How about for CD playback if I use coaxial bitstream? Is it worth upgrading!


Only worth it if you're using the analog outputs, so no to both of your questions.
post #157 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

So to make sure I fully understand if I use HDMi to my pre/pro it is not worth it?

How about for CD playback if I use coaxial bitstream? Is it worth upgrading!

No, the upgrade is for the analog 2-ch and multi-channel only.

-Bill
post #158 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoiseGoth View Post

Maybe I can sell the decal on eBay. It'd be like selling SI badges to Honda Civic owners. +15db SNR just by installing the decal!

Don't laugh. Judging from some of the stuff people buy, there probably are folks out there who think applying the decal will improve the sound. Stiffening the front plate or changing the center of gravity or deadening reflections or some such....
--Bob
post #159 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

"With the upgrade, the audio performance will be identical to the Special Edition player. However, the upgrade does not include replacing the front panel since it does not affect audio performance. As a result, there will be no “Special Edition” mark printed on the front panel. A Special Edition decal sticker will be provided for you to optionally place on the front panel."

-Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Actually you do. Read the writeup on the Oppo site.

The front panel isn't changed so you don't get the silk-screened SE logo found on a new SE. But they include an SE stick on decal that you can apply yourself if you wish.
--Bob

Well, I knew I was dumb, and now apparently blind. Next comes deaf.
My bad...
post #160 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Well, I knew I was dumb, and now apparently blind. Next comes deaf.
My bad...

When you're deaf you won't need the audio upgrade.
post #161 of 5806
Can bass management be applied to the stereo analog outs of the SE or is it just for people with separate full range stereo speakers? I other words can you run cables from the stereo outs from the SE to the front L/R inputs of the 7.1 analog inputs on a pre/pro and still use a subwoofer?
post #162 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Can bass management be applied to the stereo analog outs of the SE or is it just for people with separate full range stereo speakers? I other words can you run cables from the stereo outs from the SE to the front L/R inputs of the 7.1 analog inputs on a pre/pro and still use a subwoofer?

That, of course, would depend on the design of the pre/pro.
post #163 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Can bass management be applied to the stereo analog outs of the SE or is it just for people with separate full range stereo speakers? I other words can you run cables from the stereo outs from the SE to the front L/R inputs of the 7.1 analog inputs on a pre/pro and still use a subwoofer?

Sure you can, but a receiver that provides that may very well ALSO provide it on it's stereo analog inputs. I.e., 2.0 channel analog input to 2.1 speaker output (L/R/SUB).

Done either way, this will typically require setting the receiver to redigitize the analog input, as bass management is almost always something done in the digital audio domain.
--Bob
post #164 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

...other words can you run cables from the stereo outs from the SE to the front L/R inputs of the 7.1 analog inputs....

I would think, as Kal referenced, generally not, but it wouldn't preclude you from running to the stereo analog inputs elsewhere, such as one labeled 'CD'. For many AVRs, these are configured with bass steering to a sub.
post #165 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

I would think, as Kal referenced, generally not, but it wouldn't preclude you from running to the stereo analog inputs elsewhere, such as one labeled 'CD'. For many AVRs, these are configured with bass steering to a sub.

Aha! Now we may be getting somewhere. If the above is true then the pre/pro is using analog bass management isn't it?
Hmmm. That would make 8 analog cables......
post #166 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Aha! Now we may be getting somewhere. If the above is true then the pre/pro is using analog bass management isn't it?
Hmmm. That would make 8 analog cables......

It is highly unlikely a pre-pro would be doing bass management entirely in analog.

Whether you conect the stereo analog output of the Oppo to a stereo analog input of the pre-pro or to the LF/RF channels of its multi-channel analog input -- leaving the others unconnected -- if the pre-pro offers bass management in either case it is almost a certainty it is digitizing the analog input before doing that.
--Bob
post #167 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Can bass management be applied to the stereo analog outs of the SE or is it just for people with separate full range stereo speakers? I other words can you run cables from the stereo outs from the SE to the front L/R inputs of the 7.1 analog inputs on a pre/pro and still use a subwoofer?

Most, (if not all), AVRs with DSP and bass management apply this to regular stereo analog inputs, so there's no real need for it in the player. IOW, limitations for multi-channel analog inputs on the average AVR/Pre-pro do not apply to stereo analog inputs. Now, if you use "direct" mode in your processor/AVR, that eliminates DSP and BM. But that's a choice not a limitation.
post #168 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Aha! Now we may be getting somewhere. If the above is true then the pre/pro is using analog bass management isn't it?
Hmmm. That would make 8 analog cables......

Why must that be? Very few can do analog bass management. In general, getting BM from an analog source requires re-digitization which, it seems to me, would not be desirable in this case.
post #169 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Most, (if not all), AVRs with DSP and bass management apply this to regular stereo analog inputs, so there's no real need for it in the player.

As long as one is willing to encumber another A/D/A cycle.
post #170 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

As long as one is willing to encumber another A/D/A cycle.

An excellent point, though not relevant to the BM question asked.

But people do need to be aware that feeding the stereo analog out from this player to any stereo analog input of most AVRs and pre-pro will result in an additional A-D -> D-A conversion process which negates any benefits from the DAC in the player. Even in "direct" mode, some AVRs may still be doing the conversions.

This player really should be considered mainly for pure analog systems.
post #171 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

An excellent point, though not relevant to the BM question asked.

But people do need to be aware that feeding the stereo analog out from this player to any stereo analog input of most AVRs and pre-pro will result in an additional A-D -> D-A conversion process which negates any benefits from the DAC in the player. Even in "direct" mode, some AVRs may still be doing the conversions.

This player really should be considered mainly for pure analog systems.

Agreed. OTOH, there are a few exceptions.
post #172 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Agreed. OTOH, there are a few exceptions.

Such as...?
post #173 of 5806
Oh, I see. So there would be a a/d/a conversion at the pre/pro analog stereo inputs thus negating the superior stereo dacs in the SE. Thanks for the information. I'll just have to wait for reviews of the SE 7.1 section.
post #174 of 5806
ordered my upgrade and will be boxing my player up tonight for shipment tomorrow. Hopefully turnaround won't take to long.
post #175 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

An excellent point, though not relevant to the BM question asked.

But people do need to be aware that feeding the stereo analog out from this player to any stereo analog input of most AVRs and pre-pro will result in an additional A-D -> D-A conversion process which negates any benefits from the DAC in the player. Even in "direct" mode, some AVRs may still be doing the conversions.

This player really should be considered mainly for pure analog systems.

Ok, so let's sum this up as it applies to these two critical parameters:

(1) assume an A/V receiver purchased specifically for its better-than-average sounding two-channel music reproduction (such as Arcam 600, NAD 775/785, or the Marantz 6003/7002/8002), and

(2) assume that the stereo speaker system is NOT full range, but very high quality monitors coupled with an appropriate subwoofer.

In such a system, the subwoofer is connected to the SW output on the receiver, and the Bass Management function of the receiver is engaged.

Now along comes this new Oppo 83SE. Yes, we read on Oppo's website that the new DACs are intended as an upgrade only where the analog outputs of the Oppo are utilized. Got it.

However, if the receiver's Bass Management is in operation, and if it is correct that this is a digital function, not analog, then this means that there is an additional analog-to-digital conversion, which, in turn, means that the upgraded DACs and additional $400 of the Oppo 83SE are wasted, and ultimately no better than the standard Oppo 83. Is that about it?

If so, what a shame. I've listened to TERRIFIC, higher-end music systems that incorporated speaker configurations of monitor pair coupled with an excellent subwoofer.

Howard
post #176 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post

Such as...?

Off the top of my head, the Anthem D2 and the nht Processor will do analog all the way through. I think the Cary 11 will, too. I know squat about AVRs.
post #177 of 5806
You can add the Nuforce AVP-16/17
post #178 of 5806
I wonder how long they'll have the upgrade path available.

Need to save/hide a few more nickles...
post #179 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

An excellent point, though not relevant to the BM question asked.

But people do need to be aware that feeding the stereo analog out from this player to any stereo analog input of most AVRs and pre-pro will result in an additional A-D -> D-A conversion process which negates any benefits from the DAC in the player. Even in "direct" mode, some AVRs may still be doing the conversions.

This player really should be considered mainly for pure analog systems.

Well it doesn't negate *ANY* benefits from the DAC in the player.

A simple thought experiment proves that.

Suppose the DAC in your 83 is broken and the DAC in your 83SE is working. Feed both into a pre-pro that re-digitizes the analog input and does even just an average job of handling that. Obviously even with a modest pre-pro the 83SE will still sound better than the broken 83.

So the REAL question is, given that the analog audio improvement moving from an 83 to an 83SE will be subtle, is the re-digitizing and subsequent processing in your pre-pro *GOOD ENOUGH* to preserve that improvement and pass it along to the speakers?

The quality of the output DACs in the pre-pro play a role in that, as does the quality of its analog input re-digitizing circuit.
--Bob
post #180 of 5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by haverbach View Post

However, if the receiver's Bass Management is in operation, and if it is correct that this is a digital function, not analog, then this means that there is an additional analog-to-digital conversion, which, in turn, means that the upgraded DACs and additional $400 of the Oppo 83SE are wasted, and ultimately no better than the standard Oppo 83. Is that about it?

If so, what a shame. I've listened to TERRIFIC, higher-end music systems that incorporated speaker configurations of monitor pair coupled with an excellent subwoofer.

Howard

I wouldn't say it's wasted, but clearly not fully realized. The same process will apply to ANY setup whether it's with the -83SE or not. The general rule with audio is that no matter what you put it through, the better it is to start with the better it is when you're done. So you might still realize some improvements. Whether it's a significant improvement over the standard -83 remains to be seen. But common sense would dictate that in the above scenario, it might make more sense to just use digital out from the player and skip the extra A-D conversion if you must have DSP.
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