AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Just about ready to pull the trigger-500m (need Advice)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Just about ready to pull the trigger-500m (need Advice)

post #1 of 82
11/5/09 at 5:31pm
Thread Starter 
Ok so, thankfully Ill be able get a new TV within a few weeks. And I pretty much have my eyes set on a 500m *yay!* it's going to be the new bedroom TV.

Now I would really like upgrade my set in the living room, a Sony SXRD 60' A3000 but every where I've looked for 60' Pios, they are all MSRP or ABOVE MSRP. So I guess my first question would have to be, is there any place (or dealer on this site) that sells a 60' pio for under 3 buckets?

I highly doubt that anyone sells a set that cheap, which is why I'm mainly focusing on the 500m.

Anyway, I plan on getting it from shopnbc, and was wondering if anyone had ordered the same package from them and how was the experience?
I know that the 500m has a unusually high damage rate when it's shipped, so I'm a bit worried how hard it might be trying to get a site like shopnbc to replace the set, and what their warranty is like. Should I just go with a third party like Mack?
Or should I just ditch that site and go with one of the other online retailers? Like a site that rhymes with Bann's? (sorry, don't remember if we are allowed to talk about retailers or not)


And finally, quality of the set... I know it's a Pio...I've always dreamed of owning a Pio. But I'm wondering if there's any big flaws I should know about with this set. (Besides possibly shipping with a cracked screen)
I've heard of the "Dirty Screen Effect" and I thought I've seen that on some 151s at a local B&M store, but it's hard to tell, so I'm not overly concerned about that...or should I be?

The other flaw I've heard about is buzzing? Is this a big issue, does it effect all sets? I thought I've read in threads dealing with the issue, that if set to "power mode 2" or whatever, that the buzzing goes away?

Those are the only big flaws that I've seen/heard about the 500m. Are those true, anymore to add to the list? Would it be any better to just go with a 111fd? Can those even be found at the same price as a 500m?


The only other thing I'd like to know (and maybe DNice can chime in on this) is the brightness of the set. I'm not too familiar with terms and grayscale and stuff like that...but Ive heard a lot about this set "clipping whites" and I was wondering what that exactly means and is it that noticeable?
I only ask because, while I was at a local B&M store, I was comparing a 151 to a Panasonic V10- the only thing that really stood out to me about the Panasonic models are the fact the seem to be brighter. They seem to have better whites, which in a store looks like it has more 'pop'.

I know, I know. It's a B&M store and the set was probably on some form of Torch mode, but it was just something I noticed and remembering the "clipping whites" thing, I was just wondering how bright a Pio would get and does it provide that 'pop' factor.


**Edit- Also, I plan on doing 50/50 break-slides and regular TV watching (with settings on low). Is doing something like that ok? Or should I stick with the slides 100%? Annnd finally, I plan on using this for gaming and maybe hooking it up to my computer every now and then. I'm told that Pio sets have the best reputation for handling IR and Burn-in. Obviously I am going to be careful, but any advice for how/how long I should game or have my computer hooked up to the TV? This will be my first Plasma if you can't tell. haha

Anyway, if anyone can help me with any of these questions, I would be so relieved. Sorry for so many questions, and hopefully I've remembered everything I wanted to ask
And with any luck, in the next few weeks I'll have a Pio in my house!
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 82
11/6/09 at 1:39am
Thread Starter 
And, correct me if I'm wrong, the 500m doesn't take 1080p over component cables right?
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 82
11/6/09 at 4:01am
Quote:


I've heard of the "Dirty Screen Effect"

I've yet to see this on any 500M, nor have I noticed a 500M owner complaining about it.

Quote:


The other flaw I've heard about is buzzing? Is this a big issue, does it effect all sets?

No. Mine is quiet. Others aren't. Buy from a reputable dealer so that you could make a painless exchange if you end up with a buzzer.

Quote:


So I guess my first question would have to be, is there any place (or dealer on this site) that sells a 60' pio for under 3 buckets?

I'm not sure about under, but I've seen 600Ms for a smidge over $3k. And Best Buy was selling 151FDs for well under $4k a couple weeks ago. I don't know what the current availability is, though.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 82
11/6/09 at 5:13am
Thread Starter 
^^^^ The best buy's around you must be nice then. Over near me they are price gouging. 151 for 65-- and a 141 for 6999.


But thanks for you other answers about DSE and the Buzz. Helps me get my ducks lined up so I can make the big purchase
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 82
11/6/09 at 8:09am
Mine doesn't buzz.
Light output in Pure mode is quite low, but was really improved using the ISF-patch which allows a calibrated high lumens picture.
ISF calibration is worth it on this plasma.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 82
11/6/09 at 9:44am
i too am considering buying this set but i have a few concerns as well....

i keep reading about pioneer plasmas shipping with dead pixels right out of the box. keep reading posts where people have 2-3 REPLACEMENT sets that keep having pad pixels. i also read about pioneer plasmas developing dead pixels months into ownership...is this common? are dead pixels hard to see from 6-10 feet away on a 50 inch plasma?

i am really worried about the dead pixel issue because apparently pioneer wont do anything about it and you are stuck. i cant "live with" visual imperfections like this after spending so much money on the set.

cracked screen i can return, buzzing i may be able to get used to or just put on power save mode but dead pixels on a 2k TV that detract from my viewing experience is hard to swallow.

what do you guys think?
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 82
11/6/09 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis343 View Post

And, correct me if I'm wrong, the 500m doesn't take 1080p over component cables right?

The 500m WILL accept 1080p over component. I run 1080p on my non-HDMI Xbox 360.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 82
11/6/09 at 11:49am
"Clipping whites" doesn't really have anything to do with the set's brightness. White clip is a minor issue that I wouldn't worry about at all. The 500m doesn't clip all whiter than white information anyway. Maybe some is clipped but I've seen test patterns and it's clearly passing a good bit of it. No big deal.

But I would agree that pure mode is pretty dim. Actually, Panasonics in THX mode are much dimmer though they do have other extremely bright picture modes.

The ISFccc patch will make the 500m a lot brighter, though it still can't compete with LCDs. You'll probably be fine with the post-patch brightness. If you're not willing to patch, the 500m offers some very bright modes out of the box, though they aren't as accurate as Pure/ISFccc. If you're not a videophile I doubt that will be objectionable.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 82
11/6/09 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashbrown View Post

i cant "live with" visual imperfections like this after spending so much money on the set.
...
what do you guys think?

I think you'd better buy your TV from someone with a no questions asked return policy, albeit I'm not sure what you'll do if one develops sometime down the line.

fwiw, the vast majority of the time stuck/dead pixels aren't even noticeable while watching normal material except to those poor cursed souls who ran through special screens to find their bad pixels and now their eyes are always draw to the flaw whenever they watch their tv.
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 82
11/6/09 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

The 500m WILL accept 1080p over component. I run 1080p on my non-HDMI Xbox 360.

Oh wow, awesome! I thought I had read in a different thread that it wouldn't, so I was thinking I'd have to upgrade to a newer xbox. Good news Thank's a lot for that
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 82
11/6/09 at 3:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

"Clipping whites" doesn't really have anything to do with the set's brightness. White clip is a minor issue that I wouldn't worry about at all. The 500m doesn't clip all whiter than white information anyway. Maybe some is clipped but I've seen test patterns and it's clearly passing a good bit of it. No big deal.

But I would agree that pure mode is pretty dim. Actually, Panasonics in THX mode are much dimmer though they do have other extremely bright picture modes.

The ISFccc patch will make the 500m a lot brighter, though it still can't compete with LCDs. You'll probably be fine with the post-patch brightness. If you're not willing to patch, the 500m offers some very bright modes out of the box, though they aren't as accurate as Pure/ISFccc. If you're not a videophile I doubt that will be objectionable.


I have read a little about the ISF patch, my major concerns are-
How easy is it to install?
And, I heard that it voids the warranty, but if you need to send it back all you have to do is just uninstall the patch and Pioneer would never be able to tell?
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 82
11/6/09 at 3:04pm
[quote=Axis343;17485881]^^^^ The best buy's around you must be nice then. Over near me they are price gouging. 151 for 65-- and a 141 for 6999.


But thanks for you other answers about DSE and the Buzz. Helps me get my ducks lined up so I can make the big purchase [/QUOT

up until last saturday the 151 @ Best Buy was advertised nationally in print at 3995.00
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 82
11/6/09 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvera View Post

...Light output in Pure mode is quite low...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post


...But I would agree that pure mode is pretty dim. Actually, Panasonics in THX mode are much dimmer though they do have other extremely bright picture modes.

I can't understand this; how others see this monitor as being capable of being dim. For me it is bright, bright, bright...I use zero contrast in PURE and still too bright at night (dark room, bias light).

I am only in about 150 hours but if this panel does not dim down (fairly soon) I will probably have to go with a THX Panasonic. So maybe one of the best HDTVs in the world will not work for me...great.

I do realize it may be a personal sensitivity, but with all the praise had to give it a try. It does produce a beautiful picture. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 82
11/6/09 at 3:18pm
No need to worry about replacing for cracked screen, instead you need to inspect this set before accepting delivery to avoid cracked screen, there is a whole thread devoted to this for 500M/600M. Other thing to worry about is make sure seller is authorized dealer, otherwise Pioneer will definitely not honor the warranty.

As far as dead pixels, a few people have been posting about this but I have not seen anyone mention they have developed later. Only one seller will guarantee pixel perfect, Value Electronics, but that is if you pay for burnin and ISFccc calibration by D-Nice. I bought that package and I highly recommend it, although I saw D-Nice mention they may stop taking orders 11/15 guess they are running out of units.

The ISFccc patch adds the ISF modes which allow a calibrator to properly adjust gamma and other factor to give you awesome brightness and contrast. some members are trying to do that themselves, I just paid the extra to have it done. Good luck, go for the 500M, it has the best pq of any set made and will very soon be gone.
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 82
11/6/09 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanaman View Post

I can't understand this; how others see this monitor as being capable of being dim. For me it is bright, bright, bright...I use zero contrast in PURE and still too bright at night (dark room, bias light).

I am only in about 150 hours but if this panel does not dim down (fairly soon) I will probably have to go with a THX Panasonic. So maybe one of the best HDTVs in the world will not work for me...great.

I do realize it may be a personal sensitivity, but with all the praise had to give it a try. It does produce a beautiful picture. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Sounds like you need the ISF night mode, look into the patch if you don't already have it.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 82
11/6/09 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis343 View Post

I have read a little about the ISF patch, my major concerns are-
How easy is it to install?
And, I heard that it voids the warranty, but if you need to send it back all you have to do is just uninstall the patch and Pioneer would never be able to tell?

It's pretty easy, though the instructions are very intimidating. Maybe Turbe has improved them since I applied the patch but it ended up being much simpler than it seemed.

I think it can simply be removed, though I doubt Pioneer would ever find out that you patched the set. Warranty work will likely be done by a third party techician who doesn't know or care about patched firmware.
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 82
11/6/09 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanaman View Post

I can't understand this; how others see this monitor as being capable of being dim. For me it is bright, bright, bright...I use zero contrast in PURE and still too bright at night (dark room, bias light).

I am only in about 150 hours but if this panel does not dim down (fairly soon) I will probably have to go with a THX Panasonic. So maybe one of the best HDTVs in the world will not work for me...great.

I do realize it may be a personal sensitivity, but with all the praise had to give it a try. It does produce a beautiful picture. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


At 0 contrast I would imagine that the TV is a lot dimmer than a Panasonic in THX mode. Do you have permanently dialated pupils? Even in a pitch dark room I think Pure is a little dim. During the day ISF Day mode could stand to be brighter...a whole lot brighter, in fact.

Most people want their TVs to be very, very bright. I'm one of them, as long as other picture quality aspects aren't compromised. I'd LOVE a Kuro-quality display that could hit 100 ftl on a full field white pattern.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 82
11/6/09 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

As far as dead pixels, a few people have been posting about this but I have not seen anyone mention they have developed later. Only one seller will guarantee pixel perfect, Value Electronics, but that is if you pay for burnin and ISFccc calibration by D-Nice. I bought that package and I highly recommend it, although I saw D-Nice mention they may stop taking orders 11/15 guess they are running out of units.

Maybe, but I think that only applies to calibrated units (and possibly just the units with the extra custom mode). From their site, it appears that D-Nice does weekly calibrations there. From what I gather, I guess he would be leaving NY, so there could only be more unit with the extra custom mode, as they indicate on their site. If he is leaving, availabilty of pre-calibrated units would be determined by how many they decided to do by that date, and how many are left afterwords. Regular units should be available until they sell out, not until any certain date.
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 82
11/6/09 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

No need to worry about replacing for cracked screen, instead you need to inspect this set before accepting delivery to avoid cracked screen, there is a whole thread devoted to this for 500M/600M. Other thing to worry about is make sure seller is authorized dealer, otherwise Pioneer will definitely not honor the warranty.

As far as dead pixels, a few people have been posting about this but I have not seen anyone mention they have developed later. Only one seller will guarantee pixel perfect, Value Electronics, but that is if you pay for burnin and ISFccc calibration by D-Nice. I bought that package and I highly recommend it, although I saw D-Nice mention they may stop taking orders 11/15 guess they are running out of units.

The ISFccc patch adds the ISF modes which allow a calibrator to properly adjust gamma and other factor to give you awesome brightness and contrast. some members are trying to do that themselves, I just paid the extra to have it done. Good luck, go for the 500M, it has the best pq of any set made and will very soon be gone.

the dead pixel bit makes me feel a little better... i just need to hear that i will not be able to notice it. is professional callibration and the isfcc patch really worth it on a 500m? how much would that stuff cost on its own? best buy told me a callibration is 300 bucks from them.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 82
11/6/09 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashbrown View Post

the dead pixel bit makes me feel a little better... i just need to hear that i will not be able to notice it. is professional callibration and the isfcc patch really worth it on a 500m? how much would that stuff cost on its own? best buy told me a callibration is 300 bucks from them.

Get the TV and see if you like it as is. If you're dissatisfied, get the patch. If you still aren't happy, get it calibrated. It's just important to know what things like calibration and patching can and can't fix.
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 82
11/6/09 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashbrown View Post

is professional callibration and the isfcc patch really worth it on a 500m? how much would that stuff cost on its own? best buy told me a callibration is 300 bucks from them.

The patch is not very expensive at all and the ISFccc modes add a tremendous amount to an already excellent display. A good ISF calibration by someone who really knows what he's doing is worth every penny.

But don't have it done by Best Buy, as I doubt any of their people have the remotest idea how to calibrate ISF modes. You'd basically be wasting your money.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 82
11/6/09 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

Get the TV and see if you like it as is. If you're dissatisfied, get the patch. If you still aren't happy, get it calibrated. It's just important to know what things like calibration and patching can and can't fix.

well i have been watching a large 10 year old projection tv with splotches all over the screen so i am SURE i will be satisfied with the kuro right out of the box... i dont mind spending another say 300-500 at the most on callibration and the patch if it will tremendously improve picture quality. some people say that callibration is worth it just because the TV is a kuro and will basically make it the ultimate panel. just want to know if it will be money well spent or just a small improvement that may not be worth it.

just out of curiousity could callibration help the buzzing issue if it was present? i just ask because i know it has to do with the brightness/contrast or what not.

also how reliable is poineer plasmas long term? i am hoping to keep the tv for atleast 5 years and i want something with a good reputation that will most likely not break down on me. i have heard panasonic is reliable...how about pioneer?
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 82
11/6/09 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

No need to worry about replacing for cracked screen, instead you need to inspect this set before accepting delivery to avoid cracked screen, there is a whole thread devoted to this for 500M/600M. Other thing to worry about is make sure seller is authorized dealer, otherwise Pioneer will definitely not honor the warranty.

As far as dead pixels, a few people have been posting about this but I have not seen anyone mention they have developed later. Only one seller will guarantee pixel perfect, Value Electronics, but that is if you pay for burnin and ISFccc calibration by D-Nice. I bought that package and I highly recommend it, although I saw D-Nice mention they may stop taking orders 11/15 guess they are running out of units.

The ISFccc patch adds the ISF modes which allow a calibrator to properly adjust gamma and other factor to give you awesome brightness and contrast. some members are trying to do that themselves, I just paid the extra to have it done. Good luck, go for the 500M, it has the best pq of any set made and will very soon be gone.

Is Value Electronics an authorized dealer? That's one other thing I've seen people going back-and-forth over on the forum. Whether to buy from an authorized dealer.

VE isn't listed on Pioneer's site as a dealer. So Pioneer wouldn't honor the manufactoners warranty? Would that matter if I bought a warranty from VE?
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 82
11/6/09 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashbrown View Post

well i have been watching a large 10 year old projection tv with splotches all over the screen so i am SURE i will be satisfied with the kuro right out of the box... i dont mind spending another say 300-500 at the most on callibration and the patch if it will tremendously improve picture quality. some people say that callibration is worth it just because the TV is a kuro and will basically make it the ultimate panel. just want to know if it will be money well spent or just a small improvement that may not be worth it.

just out of curiousity could callibration help the buzzing issue if it was present? i just ask because i know it has to do with the brightness/contrast or what not.

also how reliable is poineer plasmas long term? i am hoping to keep the tv for atleast 5 years and i want something with a good reputation that will most likely not break down on me. i have heard panasonic is reliable...how about pioneer?

I don't think a calibration would give you tremendously better picture quality. There's no harm in getting the TV then deciding whether to calibrate it.

There's nothing a calibrator can do to reduce buzz that you can't easily do yourself.
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 82
11/6/09 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

Sounds like you need the ISF night mode, look into the patch if you don't already have it.

Will probably try that...haven't given up yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

At 0 contrast I would imagine that the TV is a lot dimmer than a Panasonic in THX mode. Do you have permanently dialated pupils? Even in a pitch dark room I think Pure is a little dim. During the day ISF Day mode could stand to be brighter...a whole lot brighter, in fact.
Most people want their TVs to be very, very bright. I'm one of them, as long as other picture quality aspects aren't compromised. I'd LOVE a Kuro-quality display that could hit 100 ftl on a full field white pattern.

Yeah I don't know what the problem is...eyes are 50 years old and so far no glasses, though right eye is now blurring.

Plasma's have traditionally been dim; I get into them and now they are rivaling LCDs. The calibrated (d-nice offsets) Panny 42x1 I have causes no problems; it is dim enough but I do have movie contrast in the 15-35 range.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 82
11/6/09 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert View Post

I don't think a calibration would give you tremendously better picture quality.

Disagree. Calibration made my 5080 markedly better, and my 500M and 600M benefited even more.

That's not to say the Kuro picture isn't great out of the box. It is. But with the Elites and M monitors, there's great, and then there's world-class. To me it was well worth it to get the ISFccc modes and then pay D-Nice to make 'em world-class.

But that's a subjective assessment of the value received for the value spent. What I can say is that a good calibration will make the picture more accurate than what it is out of the box. But only you can decide if that's important enough to warrant spending the money.
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 82
11/6/09 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanaman View Post

Will probably try that...haven't given up yet.



Yeah I don't know what the problem is...eyes are 50 years old and so far no glasses, though right eye is now blurring.

Plasma's have traditionally been dim; I get into them and now they are rivaling LCDs. The calibrated (d-nice offsets) Panny 42x1 I have causes no problems; it is dim enough but I do have movie contrast in the 15-35 range.

I wonder if your problem is the dark room and straining to see a dim picture. Have you tried watching with a lamp on to see if that is more comfortable?
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 82
11/6/09 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis343 View Post

Is Value Electronics an authorized dealer? That's one other thing I've seen people going back-and-forth over on the forum. Whether to buy from an authorized dealer.

VE isn't listed on Pioneer's site as a dealer. So Pioneer wouldn't honor the manufactoners warranty? Would that matter if I bought a warranty from VE?

They are an authorized dealer, I called Pioneer and they verified it, they do not list them all on the pio website and it even says that on the pio website, only way to tell is to call pio. As clarified to me by pio, VE is not an authorized Internet dealer, so they cannot use a cart to take orders over Internet, which they don't. All is good, very safe I think to buy from them.
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 82
11/6/09 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashbrown View Post

the dead pixel bit makes me feel a little better... i just need to hear that i will not be able to notice it. is professional callibration and the isfcc patch really worth it on a 500m? how much would that stuff cost on its own? best buy told me a callibration is 300 bucks from them.

If you go through the 500M thread you will find some comments from members re how huge an improvement the patch and cal make. That thread is huge so lots of reading there, but the glowing reports convinced me. I have seen several reports that best buy can make your set worse, please don't let them near it, you can get a real pro for the same price.
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 82
11/6/09 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy11 View Post

As far as dead pixels, a few people have been posting about this but I have not seen anyone mention they have developed later. Only one seller will guarantee pixel perfect, Value Electronics, but that is if you pay for burnin and ISFccc calibration by D-Nice. I bought that package and I highly recommend it, although I saw D-Nice mention they may stop taking orders 11/15 guess they are running out of units.

Yes, they can develop later...take it from me, with a Pro-111FD. Then, you are SUNK.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Just about ready to pull the trigger-500m (need Advice)