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Managed copy disks out after Dec 4th?

post #1 of 27
11/11/09 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
Is i true that December 4th is the date for all disks to implement the code necessary to allow for managed copy? Does that mean all new releases released after that date will be managed copy ready?
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post #2 of 27
11/12/09 at 6:51pm
Thread Starter 
Anyone?
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post #3 of 27
11/12/09 at 8:22pm
not much interest in managed copy now that unmanaged copy is working perfectly
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post #4 of 27
11/13/09 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsb View Post

not much interest in managed copy now that unmanaged copy is working perfectly

Yeah really - the whole thing seems kind of like a sad joke.

However, I am interested to see how it will be implemented on devices and it may yet find its niche (like digital copy discs which are easier to use directly rather than making your own -assuming the activation codes haven't expired ).

The PS3 strikes me as a logical place for the flagship rollout since a.) it has a large hard-drive and b.) it has a flexible software platform.
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post #5 of 27
11/13/09 at 4:56am
AACS 2.0 disables component output so I don't think the PS3 will be getting it.
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post #6 of 27
11/13/09 at 8:31am
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Originally Posted by CRT Dude View Post

AACS 2.0 disables component output so I don't think the PS3 will be getting it.

Hahaha, one step forward, two steps backwards. My lord, when will they ever learn.
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post #7 of 27
11/13/09 at 12:02pm
Isnt AACS on the Disc? If the manufacturer does not offer a fw update or a customer refuses to "upgrade" will certain discs not play in legacy players? Think of samsung players which are not supported by sammy anymore.

That would be a sad state of affairs.
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post #8 of 27
11/13/09 at 12:06pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah it would. But my question remains- will new releases be managed copy ready on December 4th? Or will all releases, including old one, simply be made from there on with managed copy spec implemented?
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post #9 of 27
11/13/09 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Isnt AACS on the Disc? If the manufacturer does not offer a fw update or a customer refuses to "upgrade" will certain discs not play in legacy players? Think of samsung players which are not supported by sammy anymore.

Managed copy information is optional for players so it should not cause any incompatibilities.

As to should anyone care, managed copy should enable legitimate commercial products to make copies. Of course, many would not care but some people might.
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post #10 of 27
11/13/09 at 9:02pm
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Originally Posted by tsb View Post

not much interest in managed copy now that unmanaged copy is working perfectly

Indeed, managed copy thrills me about as much as the "digital copy" disasters that come with some of my BDs.
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post #11 of 27
11/14/09 at 4:59pm
Surely the studios will gouge customers and totally new hardware (secure) will be required to use these "
The studios are a couple years late to the game and since they didnt even want this feature to begin with they will implement it in such as way as to be as unappealing to comsumers as possible-the MPAA "Kiss of Death" launch.

"Please enter your credit card details-For only $29.99 you can order your very own Managed copy, and for only another $599 we'll give you the secured storage device to save this managed copy on.
(Certain restrictions apply. This copy only works with devices sanctioned by the MPAA/cableLabs. New BD player & HDTV required. HDMI 2.0 required. No component output allowed. Phone home required on every playback. We will be tracking you without your knowledge/consent. Periodically we will demand you to insert the orignal disc to make sure you still own the title. Rootkits will be installed on your network devices without your knowledge. At any time, and for any reason, the studio may disable playback of your managed cop & keep the payment, blackout periods apply. Anything the studio wants to do to support their business model will be imposed on you and you may be required to make periodics payment to continue use of the Managed Copy)"
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post #12 of 27
11/15/09 at 12:04am
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Originally Posted by taz291819 View Post

Hahaha, one step forward, two steps backwards. My lord, when will they ever learn.

Look on the bright side. They disable all analog ouputs in '14 so J6P won't be able to hook their player up by composite then wonder what all the fuss about this HD thing is about.
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post #13 of 27
11/30/09 at 4:22pm
HD to me is up converted standard dvd content so I had to "google" Managed Copy to learn what it was all about.

It looks to me that "Managed Copy" is complicated to use and (probably) will cost more that practical/appropriate when reasonable application of "fair use" doctrine should allow us all to make back up copies of the content we purchase if we are willing to invest in the hardware and software and media to do it.

However, if this will be the only legal option for makeing backup copies or copies to another format for like iphone compatibility then it will get traction eventually.

Could be things like this will drive more and more legitimate owners of content to turn to one of the many commercial (costs $$) and free applications available today that will allow the same result - and some of them are incredible.

I'll never pay to be able to make "fair use" backup copies of content I have purchased.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out in a market place where if I understand correctly there is no hardware available that will support this option.
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post #14 of 27
11/30/09 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
!?!?!?!

Wow. I asked a simple question:

Will all disks manufactured after December 4th include the neccessary code to enable managed copy when hardware is available to use it?

or:

Will only disks released as new releases after December 4th contain the code, meaning disks or editions of previously released movies released as new movies?

I don't care about anyone spouting off crap about anydvdhd. I've been a customer of slysoft for YEARS. I used DVD John's first editions of his code to rip the original Matrix DVD back in '99. I was online when accs was cracked on doom9 and bd+ was destroed by James at slysoft.

Can anyone withthe ability to stay on topic about a question who has the knowledge to give an answer chime in here?

And for be peopl who just can't figure out shy someone would be such a "noob" to get "powned" by using managed copy, I (like many people) am interested in the holy Grail of the kaliedescape experience without Ny inconsistencies working on Bluray.

/end rant.
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post #15 of 27
11/30/09 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

!?!?!?!

Wow. I asked a simple question:

Will all disks manufactured after December 4th include the neccessary code to enable managed copy when hardware is available to use it?

or:

Will only disks released as new releases after December 4th contain the code, meaning disks or editions of previously released movies released as new movies?

I don't care about anyone spouting off crap about anydvdhd. I've been a customer of slysoft for YEARS. I used DVD John's first editions of his code to rip the original Matrix DVD back in '99. I was online when accs was cracked on doom9 and bd+ was destroed by James at slysoft.

Can anyone withthe ability to stay on topic about a question who has the knowledge to give an answer chime in here?

And for be peopl who just can't figure out shy someone would be such a "noob" to get "powned" by using managed copy, I (like many people) am interested in the holy Grail of the kaliedescape experience without Ny inconsistencies working on Bluray.

/end rant.

Doing a Google searh for BD+Managed Copy - the latest news seems to be 11/9/09 which states that yes, after Dec. 4th, all BD's produced will have the required serial number stamped into them (each is unique to the disc it resides on) along with whatever else is necessary to fill the requirement.

No word on any BD hardware that supports it (not a requirement - each CEM decides for themselves.)

I suspect we will see some at CES 2010. I believe Pioneer did show something at IFA a few months ago.
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post #16 of 27
11/30/09 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Doing a Google searh for BD+Managed Copy - the latest news seems to be 11/9/09 which states that yes, after Dec. 4th, all BD's produced will have the required serial number stamped into them (each is unique to the disc it resides on) along with whatever else is necessary to fill the requirement.

No word on any BD hardware that supports it (not a requirement - each CEM decides for themselves.)

I suspect we will see some at CES 2010. I believe Pioneer did show something at IFA a few months ago.

Thank you.

I saw the Pioneer demo. To be honest, it might not be as bad as everyone fears. I think we need two things for managed copy to take off and everyone to be able to load a movie server that will not irritate the heck out of us consumers:

1. Free first copy for the buyer of the disk. I don't mind being charged for a second copy, as in reasonable theory this is your buddy down the street copying your disk. It might even be cheaper than a new disk and save production costs for distribution- if the movie is say, $29.95 an a second through infinity copy is $25.00, then your friend saves $4.95, the studio makes more money as their margin on the disk sold through stores is likely far less than $25.00- managed copy overhead. Also- a serial number could be linked to a specific content server, so if it dies the copy could be remade to a new content server verified as a replacement for the original.

2. Do not force the consumer to watch any ads/previews/menus- just let us hit "Play movie" and have the movie start. I am so sick and tired of the forced viewing advertisements and crap- it really cuts in o the enjoyment of the movie watching experience and is a good part of the reason I copy disks to a hard drive. I this was taken away with managed copy, that would be really cool.

I think anything else will be taken care of by the market- storage space requirements and increases, etc. when all CE manufacturers have the ability to make a managed copy machine.
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post #17 of 27
11/30/09 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Thank you.

I saw the Pioneer demo. To be honest, it might not be as bad as everyone fears. I think we need two things for managed copy to take off and everyone to be able to load a movie server that will not irritate the heck out of us consumers:

1. Free first copy for the buyer of the disk. I don't mind being charged for a second copy, as in reasonable theory this is your buddy down the street copying your disk. It might even be cheaper than a new disk and save production costs for distribution- if the movie is say, $29.95 an a second through infinity copy is $25.00, then your friend saves $4.95, the studio makes more money as their margin on the disk sold through stores is likely far less than $25.00- managed copy overhead. Also- a serial number could be linked to a specific content server, so if it dies the copy could be remade to a new content server verified as a replacement for the original.

2. Do not force the consumer to watch any ads/previews/menus- just let us hit "Play movie" and have the movie start. I am so sick and tired of the forced viewing advertisements and crap- it really cuts in o the enjoyment of the movie watching experience and is a good part of the reason I copy disks to a hard drive. I this was taken away with managed copy, that would be really cool.

I think anything else will be taken care of by the market- storage space requirements and increases, etc. when all CE manufacturers have the ability to make a managed copy machine.

That's the BIG question!

Will the first copy be free?

Hmmm . . .

We are talking about the Hollywood studios here.

My memory is telling me that the MC system will not be up until June 2010 (could be mistaken) - that would be the servers and such to deal/validate MC.
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post #18 of 27
11/30/09 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

I saw the Pioneer demo.

Which one? At CEDIA? If so, that was just a mock-up. It was not a functioning demo even though it may have looked that way .

Quote:


1. Free first copy for the buyer of the disk.

There is no such provision. Every content provider can choose the pricing. Some will hopefully make it free though.

Quote:


2. Do not force the consumer to watch any ads/previews/menus- just let us hit "Play movie" and have the movie start. I am so sick and tired of the forced viewing advertisements and crap- it really cuts in o the enjoyment of the movie watching experience and is a good part of the reason I copy disks to a hard drive. I this was taken away with managed copy, that would be really cool.

Managed copy does have the provision where you could copy just what you need. However, the authorization process can include advertising, etc. Note that the Pioneer mock-up eliminated all the extras since they received a special Disc from Disney that was devoid of it. It was not that way because it worked that way.
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post #19 of 27
12/1/09 at 8:04am
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/18/ha...-copy-for-psp/

Not sure if the file can be copied to any other device.

Angels & Demons is already out.
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post #20 of 27
12/1/09 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Will all disks manufactured after December 4th include the neccessary code to enable managed copy when hardware is available to use it?

There was a delay announced for this date but I do not remember the new deadline date. If a BD title is released and includes a Digital Copy then the BD title will not need to include MC code.
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post #21 of 27
12/1/09 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

There was a delay announced for this date but I do not remember the new deadline date. If a BD title is released and includes a “Digital Copy” then the BD title will not need to include MC code.

Oops!


BD managed copy implementation delayed

Quote:


Advanced Access Content System Licensing Administrator (AACS-LA) has delayed the start date of a number of Blu-ray managed copy requirements from 4 December 2009 to 31 March 2010. Studios and content holders, whilst still complying with the managed copy agreement, will no longer be required to label and promote BDs as managed copy-ready until 31 March, when the AACS-LA expects to make its authentication servers operational.

http://www.screendigest.com/online_s...-TG3/view.html
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post #22 of 27
12/1/09 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
These people are incompetent dumbasses.
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post #23 of 27
12/12/09 at 9:03am
Someone is trying to do MC at least.
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post #24 of 27
12/22/09 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Managed copy information is optional for players so it should not cause any incompatibilities.

As to should anyone care, managed copy should enable legitimate commercial products to make copies. Of course, many would not care but some people might.

Yes - and thats the real reason I am still waiting for it. The idea of having WMC or products like TMT actually be able to transparently manage and access my entire library of movies legitimately, would save a lot of time and trouble, and make life much easier.

But, of course, managed copy has turned out to be a completely empty promise. I'm sure it is because of a fear of piracy - but these guys need to realize that it would undermine piracy, not encourage it. Right now, "unmanaged copy" is the only avenue for some users who want to make their library readily accessible within their home.

...maybe one day...
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post #25 of 27
12/22/09 at 8:29pm
Just recently got a 2-disc version of Step Into Liguid", 2nd disc is a DVD-ROM with the movie in WMV HD version. Given the beautiful images, HD version could certainly be a treat, it needs to get license online through synccast.com (which is only good for 7 days), anyway, doesn't sound like a problem, right? Well, the only "glitch" is that synccast.com is unreachable, now I have a unplayable disc. The whole thing is very frustrating. Microsoft has a page about Terminator 2, it seems Step Into Liguid uses same online licensing scheme.

I hope "managed copy" would fare better than this.

Does anyone know if synccast is out of business?
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post #26 of 27
12/22/09 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley5 View Post

Just recently got a 2-disc version of Step Into Liguid", 2nd disc is a DVD-ROM with the movie in WMV HD version. Given the beautiful images, HD version could certainly be a treat, it needs to get license online through synccast.com (which is only good for 7 days), anyway, doesn't sound like a problem, right? Well, the only "glitch" is that synccast.com is unreachable, now I have a unplayable disc. The whole thing is very frustrating. Microsoft has a page about Terminator 2, it seems Step Into Liguid uses same online licensing scheme.

I hope "managed copy" would fare better than this.

Does anyone know if synccast is out of business?

I have no idea about syncast. But historically it seems that ALL phone home DRM servers will eventually become unavailable. I just assume that from the start and avoid them.
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post #27 of 27
12/23/09 at 2:52pm
I don't expect phone home server to last forever either, this is exactly the reason it's really a bad "business model", from consumer point of view. In the long run, if the studios keep doing this, I hope enough consumers would be pissed off, which hopefully could affect studio's bottomline. I for one will never buy anything that requires phone-home.

It's rather amazing how studios could go to such a length to antagonize their customers with ridiculous DRM scheme. Not only you have to phone home to a nonexistent server, the license, if you do get one, only worked for 7 days, I also see pissed off customers on amazon.

Both Lions Gate and Microsoft are still selling this non playable DVD-ROM online.
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