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ADA Mach 4......WOW!!!! - Page 68

post #2011 of 2083
Those trims + silver Audyssey almost certainly equals clipping.

Before changing anything it would be interesting to physically remove the audyssey and see if the clip goes.
post #2012 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

There have been a lot of reports of Brave random dropouts. Seems yours is different as it is repeatable. Could you set the BD player to output PCM and see if the gap still happens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

Those trims + silver Audyssey almost certainly equals clipping.
Before changing anything it would be interesting to physically remove the audyssey and see if the clip goes.

OK thanks, I will try these ideas when I get home tomorrow and report back.
post #2013 of 2083
Yes, I would lower all your trims by 5db. See what that does.
post #2014 of 2083
No Brave drop outs for me on my Maxh IV.
post #2015 of 2083
No brave dropouts on my ADA Suite 7.1HD HDMI1.4-version.
post #2016 of 2083
OK, after several hours of testing my simplified results are:

1. Tested as it was twice - the sound dropped out in the same place each time.

2. Set the Blu ray player to PCM - everything is fine, no drop out. smile.gif

3. Switched blu ray settings back to bitstream - sound dropped out.

4. Reduced surround trims to 6DB in line with new amp's Gain- no sound drop out smile.gif

5. Tested again as No 5 - sound drops out

5. Dropped all trims to 0 - sound drops out.

6. Disconnected Audyssey pro unit - sound drops out.

7. Even though I do not use the PEQ for movies, switched this OFF in the suite's PC program - all OK, no drop out smile.gif

8. tested again as in No 6 - sound drops out.

9. reset to factory default - sound drops out.

10. tested PCM - all OK.

11. Bit-stream - sound drops out.

I am running out of ideas. All I know is since the upgrade to version 3 from 2 I have suffered from occasional Audio drop out.

Any more ideas??? confused.gif
Edited by magicj1 - 12/24/12 at 10:40pm
post #2017 of 2083
It's not the SSP. it's the player. I have 3 BD players. Do you have another player to try?
post #2018 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

It's not the SSP. it's the player. I have 3 BD players. Do you have another player to try?

No, I could borrow one.

But, I get the same results when testing through my popcorn hour.

edit, I should add, I always believed this to be a streaming problem, I never play discs normally. Like I say, version 2 never gave me any drop outs, and I had Audyssey back then.
post #2019 of 2083
What BD player do you have?
post #2020 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

What BD player do you have?

A Sony S370

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/blu-ray-disc-player/bdp-s370


Like I say, both player and streamer drop the Audio in exactly the same place. I re-rented the disc again to check, now one would think the chances of me receiving the same disc must be pretty slim, so I am putting faulty disc to one side.

The last film I watched where the Audio dropped out was 'The Dictator'' I watched this a month ago.
Edited by magicj1 - 12/24/12 at 1:22pm
post #2021 of 2083
That model is HDMI 1.4. Is your Suite 7.1?

Also, its 2 years old. It seems the newest units are not having the trouble as much.

Good luck.

ALSO, is your firmware up to date?
post #2022 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

That model is HDMI 1.4. Is your Suite 7.1?
Also, its 2 years old. It seems the newest units are not having the trouble as much.
Good luck.
ALSO, is your firmware up to date?

Yep, mine is the Suite 7.1 HD

Why would my streamer suffer the same problem, also why when I forward the movie slightly this is not a problem?

My unit went back in for warranty repair, it was upgraded to Release 3.10, all I can say up until then I never suffered Audio drop out.

Reason I put up with it, I always thought it was a problem on my LAN, which now seems this isn't so?

I just want to watch films.............................!
post #2023 of 2083
Gotcha... but is your Blu Ray up to its latest firmware. Check that first.
post #2024 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Gotcha... but is your Blu Ray up to its latest firmware. Check that first.

yep... M03.R.769

Just seen my blu ray player has an Audio DRC setting, wide, standard or Auto, mine was set to wide.

From what I have found on the Net it appears this needs to be set to Auto.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/sony-bdp-s370-drc-setting
Quote:
I even rang a sony engineer (one of the few sony guys who actually knew what he was talking about), and he said to set to auto. Also MAY need to manually choose the audio on the source

Sound is set to a standard. Deviate from that standard and youll get distortion and/or clipping


I will test this again later.
Edited by magicj1 - 12/25/12 at 2:17am
post #2025 of 2083
Nope, that didn't work either.

Tried all settings, Auto and Standard, the sound still drops out. Checked again with PCM and everything is fine.


Reducing the Trim levels to there lowest settings does not stop this Audio Drop out.

L -20
C -20
R -20
S -11.5
LS -20
RS -20
LBS -20
RBS -20


Now, If I fast forward the Movie 1 minute in from the start with both my Blu ray player and Popcorn hour, 'this still leaves 3 minutes before the scene in question', the sound does not drop out???

I am using these Trim settings:

L -10
C -12
R -10
S -2
LS -6
RS -6.5
LBS -10
RBS -7.5



My brother is bringing his PS3 over for me to try later, but I get the feeling the results will be exactly the same, the ADA does not seem to be able to cope?
Edited by magicj1 - 12/25/12 at 5:43am
post #2026 of 2083
I don't know how trim levels would effect an audio drop out? What's your theory?
post #2027 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't know how trim levels would effect an audio drop out? What's your theory?

as ceenhad say's:
Quote:
It is simply stacking of levels in dsp. Boost+trim gain+overall volume defines output. By design this is limited iirc to 110dB. If signal exceeds this then a mute protects from hard clipping aka blown tweeters!


To me it is starting to look like my ADA's limit has been set way to low since the update, though I hope it's something more simple than this.

I first noticed this problem back in July 'my unit had been updated in May' with Mission impossible 4. I've watched this film twice, the audio drop out happened in the same place each time, the scene when Tom Cruise has a fight on the escalator with the Russian agent, yet if I forwarded the film near to this point it would not repeat, hence why I thought this was a streaming fault.

The other week when a friend and my brother came over to watch 'the Dictator' it happened again, like MIP4 'and a few other films it has happened to' it was late on in the film, this makes it pretty difficult to replicate unless you have bags of spare time on your hands.

'The Brave' is the first film it has more or less happened at the start , so I am able to replicate this quite easily. I must have played the scene over and over again for 6 hours now trying different things to prevent it.
Edited by magicj1 - 12/25/12 at 10:04am
post #2028 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

as ceenhad say's:
To me it is starting to look like my ADA's limit has been set way to low since the update, though I hope it's something more simple than this.
I first noticed this problem back in July 'my unit had been updated in May' with Mission impossible 4. I've watched this film twice, the audio drop out happened in the same place each time, the scene when Tom Cruise has a fight on the escalator with the Russian agent, yet if I forwarded the film near to this point it would not repeat, hence why I thought this was a streaming fault.
The other week when a friend and my brother came over to watch 'the Dictator' it happened again, like MIP4 'and a few other films it has happened to' it was late on in the film, this makes it pretty difficult to replicate unless you have bags of spare time on your hands.
'The Brave' is the first film it has more or less happened at the start , so I am able to replicate this quite easily. I must have played the scene over and over again for 6 hours now trying different things to prevent it.

The only issue with that hypothesis is that many others are having this issue. None of whom have a ADA. So, a trim levels thing isn't applicable to all others. I think it is a bandwidth issue and I'll bet things go well when you try a PS3.
post #2029 of 2083
Oh right, I didn't realize this is a common problem.?

So others are experiencing audio drop out with blu rays?

Why doesn't this happen when I set my blu ray player to PCM?
post #2030 of 2083
I think there is a coding issue with the bitstream signal that is causing processors to trip up, hence why when you convert to PCM in the player the problem doesn't exist.

Perhaps scout around for a different region film with a differing audio pressing and see if if has the same problem.

By ripping this ' dodgy ' blu ray and sending bitstream tells me that it has to be the media / encoding at fault and not the hardware.

Just guessing tho!
post #2031 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Oh right, I didn't realize this is a common problem.?
So others are experiencing audio drop out with blu rays?
Why doesn't this happen when I set my blu ray player to PCM?

Check out the 'Brave' thread in the Blu Ray Software Forum. LPCM works for all others having that problem. My guess is bandwidth as bitstream signal deciding requires more horse power. My guess is its a player issue or some sort of interaction between player and SSP.
post #2032 of 2083
I will try 'The Brave' disc on my brothers system, he has an Onkyo amp. If it works no skips what will this prove?

As this disc does not skip when my Blu ray player decodes it to PCM, does this mean my £150. Player has more processing power than my £5K processor, or that the work has been shared, which lowers the correction rate?

Like I said earlier, I re rented this copy, and the chance of being sent the same film from LF must be slim. I am slightly concerened now, the fact I have already experienced Audio drop out on other films, MIP4 being the one that dropped the Audio the most, by the way it was always in high impact scenes when it happened, does this mean I should use a Blu ray player to do all the converting to avoid this?
Edited by magicj1 - 12/25/12 at 11:01pm
post #2033 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Check out the 'Brave' thread in the Blu Ray Software Forum. LPCM works for all others having that problem. My guess is bandwidth as bitstream signal deciding requires more horse power. My guess is its a player issue or some sort of interaction between player and SSP.

Just had a flick through this thread, so it seems to be 'branching' related.

I may have to rethink my system set up.
post #2034 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.jo View Post

No brave dropouts on my ADA Suite 7.1HD HDMI1.4-version.

Hi ja.jo, can I ask what device you are using for movie play back?
post #2035 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Just had a flick through this thread, so it seems to be 'branching' related.
I may have to rethink my system set up.

Did you get a chance to swap a PS3 BD player into your system?

It may just be the way your player is handling the bitstream signal.
post #2036 of 2083
Do not forget he has this same problem from his media streamer also, so I fail to see how a different player will make a difference?

I think there is problem with the encoding that is causing an hdmi issue. The Ada has a dam good hdmi board and will reject a lot of crap or errored hdmi signals. Hence why if he skips the beginning it's ok and also if he goes LPCM. The bitstream is no longer subject to hdmi protocol if converted to LPCM in the player.

What is branching? I shall have to go read the thread you mentioned.
post #2037 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Did you get a chance to swap a PS3 BD player into your system?
It may just be the way your player is handling the bitstream signal.


My brother forgot the remote for the PS3, I will be testing this on his system tomorrow, possibly Friday, I'm curious to see if his Onkyo amp excepts the signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Do not forget he has this same problem from his media streamer also, so I fail to see how a different player will make a difference?
I think there is problem with the encoding that is causing an hdmi issue. The Ada has a dam good hdmi board and will reject a lot of crap or errored hdmi signals. Hence why if he skips the beginning it's ok and also if he goes LPCM. The bitstream is no longer subject to hdmi protocol if converted to LPCM in the player.
What is branching? I shall have to go read the thread you mentioned.

Streamed or straight off the disc, the results are exactly the same Nick.

Is the sound quality effected if the player is doing the Decoding? I have ordered an Dune HD smart H1 today, these streamers can output LPCM.
Quote:
Quite a few reports of this now from various blu players and various receivers. Apparently it has something to do with the way Disney authored the disc (branching file structure) in an effort to prevent disc copying software from doing its thing. I had one audio (maybe video as well now that you mention it) drop as well in the film. If it is the reason why the rest of us had this issue, it is not repeatable so a timestamp does not matter.
post #2038 of 2083
Well some say there is no difference in converting to LPCM in the player, others say otherwise. It's something I have not compared. Perhaps I'll give it a go when I get a chance.

Intheory, so long as all the steering, etc is handled in the processor then you should notice little to no difference between LPCM and bitstream. I think the real pitfalls from using the player is when you allow it do to all the decoding, steering and use analogue outs.

I would imagine, cheaper pros and receivers being less problematic of this issue due to the fact their hdmi protocols are probably not as strict as that on the Ada. Out of interest have you tried different legth hdmi cables. A 5m one or longer. It's all worth the try.
post #2039 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Well some say there is no difference in converting to LPCM in the player, others say otherwise. It's something I have not compared. Perhaps I'll give it a go when I get a chance.
Intheory, so long as all the steering, etc is handled in the processor then you should notice little to no difference between LPCM and bitstream. I think the real pitfalls from using the player is when you allow it do to all the decoding, steering and use analogue outs.
I would imagine, cheaper pros and receivers being less problematic of this issue due to the fact their hdmi protocols are probably not as strict as that on the Ada. Out of interest have you tried different legth hdmi cables. A 5m one or longer. It's all worth the try.

I see, thanks Nick.

Yep, tried longer '5 mtr' hdmi cables, this was my first port of call.

I am just happy to be getting to the bottom of this once and for all, it's something that happens to me 1 in 10 films, like I said in previous post, it normally only happens mid way through a movie which makes it very awkward to replicate.

I hope if I do end up going the LPCM route it won't compromise the SQ, the ADA is by far the best sounding processor I have had to date.
post #2040 of 2083
"I hope if I do end up going the LPCM route it won't compromise the SQ, the ADA is by far the best sounding processor I have had to date."

Yesterday , I put in a BR - ANDRE RIEU - Home For The Holiday - and by default , it was outputting LPCM , I didn't notice that , while the sound was good & clear as usual , the presentation was very flat , after I restored it to Bitstream , the sound stage opened up with width & depth , applauses from surrounds were heard with layers , I was always skeptical about the difference between LPCM and Bitstream , now I am very sure that for field experience , BItstream is a must !

My system route was Sony 5000ES > ADA Suite HD1.4 > Trinnov to AMP .

Cheer !
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