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ADA Mach 4......WOW!!!! - Page 69

post #2041 of 2083
Not to mention, there can be lipsync issues with LPCM decoding in the player.
post #2042 of 2083
I had the same issue on my Suite 7.1 HD 1.4. 4 mins in on brave when the bear roars it cuts out, very repeatable.

I experienced the same thing on many films when a particularly dynamic sequence took place.

It turned out to be related to the PEQ, switch it off and all is well. I experimented a bit and it seemed due to boosting too much on the L&R channels. The boosts seemed modest enough but anything more than flat on the PEQ caused the drop-outs so I went with a cut only PEQ profile on all channels and it seemed to cure things for me.

Previous to this I was convinced it was related to levels but I am not so sure now, personally I think the ADA is a bit 'sensitive' as I have never come across this behaviour with another SSP.

There seems to be some limit in relation to input signal, channel levels and PEQ that causes cut-outs. It isn't something I noticed prior to the 1.4 update but then if it is recent media induced then that would explain why it didn't happen before.

I wish I had a firm answer but at least I found a way to avoid it. I admit never having tried LPCM when I had the issue though.

P.s. source is stream via Dune HD.

Adam smile.gif
post #2043 of 2083
I was making heavy use of PEQ prior to having Trinnov and I noted that the engaged on Mode time was much longer than with no PEQ engaged , sometime , it even couldn't locked on and I have to switch inputs and returning to the same input to get thing OK , later , I have Trinnov doing the job and I switch off PEQ and everything is as quickly as never known to me !

It seems that the ADA is not have enough processing power to do the job in these demanding passages . Dropping out maybe a safe way to protect its processor . Sometime ADA would "reset" itself - heard a small click , music stopped a second or two and restored to normal , it seems that ADA is debugging itself . Reducing excessive PEQ use maybe the only solution . (To me , it seems that it is not how many PEQ channels you used but rather how high you push up or down on some frequency +- 6db shouldn't be a problem but if closed to 10 , surely caused mis-behavior , my experience only)

Larry
post #2044 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

Yesterday , I put in a BR - ANDRE RIEU - Home For The Holiday - and by default , it was outputting LPCM , I didn't notice that , while the sound was good & clear as usual , the presentation was very flat , after I restored it to Bitstream , the sound stage opened up with width & depth , applauses from surrounds were heard with layers , I was always skeptical about the difference between LPCM and Bitstream , now I am very sure that for field experience , BItstream is a must !
Not a valid comparison since you were comparing the default 2-channel LPCM track to a bitstreamed 5.1-channel DTS-HD MA track.
post #2045 of 2083
I am sorry , my mistake on this disc , but that is an experience I have gained from many discs having uncompressed PCM as well as DTS-HD Master , the following disc is an example for me and I still think ADA is doing a better decoding job than any other BR player in the markets , maybe equaled only by Marantz UD9004 - heard it from PCM out .



Tests can also be carried out by those who have the HiVi Cast disc from Japan where it has the same sound track in LPCM , Dolby HD & DTS-HD Master formats for comparison , Kameoff got one and we hope he can compare & give us his comments .



Larry
post #2046 of 2083
Tbh, I wasnt really thinking of a sq comparisons between LPCM original stream and dts ma hd. I simply meant switching the blu ray player to output LPCM so that the player has to decode the bitstream to LPCM thus possible degrade sound quality.
post #2047 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

that is an experience I have gained from many discs having uncompressed PCM as well as DTS-HD Master , the following disc is an example for me and I still think ADA is doing a better decoding job than any other BR player in the markets , maybe equaled only by Marantz UD9004 - heard it from PCM out .
That's the equivalent of me sending a document to your office and you claiming that the letter reads better when you open the envelope and unfold the letter compared to when your secretary opens the envelope and unfolds the letter. Doesn't matter who opens the envelope, it will be the same exact document.

DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD are lossless packing algorithms. As such, they don't throw away any data, just pack the original PCM soundtrack more efficiently in order to save storage space. It's like zipping a large file in your computer to a smaller size so that you can e-mail it. You haven't thrown out or changed any of the data.

When DTS-HD MA and TrueHD soundtracks are decoded back to their original PCM format, they are all bit-for-bit identical to the original. So if you're hearing any difference between them, then it's something besides sound quality (as in your previous example comparing 2-channel to 5.1-channel).

As for decoding (unpacking) lossless soundtracks, the decoder in the ADA or Marantz UD9004 cannot do a better or worse job than the decoder in your Sony player. The decoded results will always be the same, down to the last bit, which is why they call it "lossless".
post #2048 of 2083
Neither did I want to believe it , digital is digital , but I did hear difference between HDMI outs among various BR players , maybe I should use the word processing rather than decoding , sometime , I argue with my friends (defending theory) about various HDMI cables giving out different pictures & sounds and by instant repeated A B , I must admit that there are noticeable difference .

Cheer !
post #2049 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelEyes View Post

I had the same issue on my Suite 7.1 HD 1.4. 4 mins in on brave when the bear roars it cuts out, very repeatable.
I experienced the same thing on many films when a particularly dynamic sequence took place.
It turned out to be related to the PEQ, switch it off and all is well. I experimented a bit and it seemed due to boosting too much on the L&R channels. The boosts seemed modest enough but anything more than flat on the PEQ caused the drop-outs so I went with a cut only PEQ profile on all channels and it seemed to cure things for me.
Previous to this I was convinced it was related to levels but I am not so sure now, personally I think the ADA is a bit 'sensitive' as I have never come across this behaviour with another SSP.
There seems to be some limit in relation to input signal, channel levels and PEQ that causes cut-outs. It isn't something I noticed prior to the 1.4 update but then if it is recent media induced then that would explain why it didn't happen before.
I wish I had a firm answer but at least I found a way to avoid it. I admit never having tried LPCM when I had the issue though.
P.s. source is stream via Dune HD.
Adam smile.gif


Hate to say this, but it's nice to see I am not the only one with this problem, and it's even better the same disc same scene is at fault. With MIP4 you could almost sense when the Audio would drop, like you say Adam any dynamic sequence!!

Unfortunately for me even with the PEQ off I suffer drop out's. When on, my PEQ is only set for my L/R speakers, and there are no boosts to these.

Is there a way to completely wipe clean the ADA's settings? Factory reset does not do this...

Same here, since the update mine has been plagued with drop outs, or is this just a coincidence, has the industry altered it's standard?

So where do ADA owners go from here? However good ADA is, having Audio drop out is unacceptable, hopefully an ADA rep can come along and shed some light on this, I'm sure they must be watching smile.gif.

p.s Not only because the ADA is the most expensive bit of AV kit I have owned to date, I am also in the Dog house for spending so much time on Christmas day experimenting, I do hope something comes of all these posts.....
Edited by magicj1 - 12/27/12 at 12:23am
post #2050 of 2083
Magicj,

why don't you contact the technical support at ADA for more info and advice? My previous contacts with them have been waste of time but it is still worth a consideration...
post #2051 of 2083
Not sure there would be any point, once you start searching you soon realise your not the only one suffering from Audio drop out, I read this on the Anthem thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau 

The audio drop outs in "Brave", Blu-ray, are almost certainly player performance issues triggered by the way this disc is authored. They've now been reported in multiple settings (different players and different sound processors). Use of LPCM output from the player may be a cure, but there's no guarantee of that.
"Brave" has been authored with a complicated file branching scheme intended to foil disc copying software. As is often the case when studios try such cunning plans, they appear to have screwed up playback for normal viewers using legitimate discs. Deep sigh....
In the OPPO players, the older 83 and 93/95 will produce these brief audio (only) drop outs late in the film where a bunch of the file complexity happens. The newer 103/105 players do NOT appear to generate these. If the drop outs are going to happen, the time codes where they happen are known, but if you play over the same scene again the dropout does not repeat. Thus there is something structural in the disc authoring causing this, and it appears to require the disc be played from the start. Even backing up several Chapters is not enough to get the drop out to happen.
It remains to be seen whether:
1) The studio has violated the rules of Blu-ray authoring, to the detriment of people with somewhat older players, OR
2) The players (different brands) exhibiting the problem have violated the requirements of Blu-ray playback, OR
3) Blu-ray Disc Association has failed, once again, to specify the rules sufficiently, and the studio has taken advantage of this, again to the detriment of people with older, somewhat slower players.
Short of upgrading to a faster player, I know of no workaround, and I'd be surprised if Disney recalls the discs to replace them with less cunning discs that actually work. (That, too, remains to be seen.) Fortunately, the audio drop outs are few in number and brief.
--Bob


it's not just this one movie causing problems,..........thankfully the repeated cure is to feed the SSP LPCM.
post #2052 of 2083
That's as good as an explanation as you'll ever see on AVS>

Bob is wealth of info in the Anthem thread.
post #2053 of 2083
As I thought. A problem with the encoding on the disc by what I understand from that. Very interesting indeed!
post #2054 of 2083
At least Magicj can relax now and start enjoying movies again...smile.gif
post #2055 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

At least Magicj can relax now and start enjoying movies again...smile.gif
As long as it's not Total Recall. It has the same creative authoring as Brave, and plenty of dropouts in all but the newest Oppo players.
Edited by Roger Dressler - 12/28/12 at 3:20pm
post #2056 of 2083
Thanks kamenoff, I hope so smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

As long as it'd not Total Recall. It has the same creative authoring as Brave, and plenty of dropouts in all but the newest Oppo players.

From what I have read even the newest Oppo's are not guaranteed this, here is just one post..

Read post 12 ...http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread
post #2057 of 2083
Hello all.

I'm wondering if cinavia could generate such a dropout.
post #2058 of 2083
Total Recall works fine thru my 93.
post #2059 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Total Recall works fine thru my 93.

Just heard back from a friend, he found his Blockbuster rented copy of Total Recal nigh on unwatchable on his Oppo 93/Anthem statement d2v system.

He suffered 2 drop outs in the Brave, and a blip in the New Spiderman.


Is your copy rented Nick?
post #2060 of 2083
Yes, rented from Tomorrow world. But a lot of their titles are normal releases. They are a bit naughty like that.
post #2061 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Thanks kamenoff, I hope so smile.gif
From what I have read even the newest Oppo's are not guaranteed this, here is just one post..
Read post 12 ...http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread
This post? I see no mention of this issue there.
post #2062 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Yes, rented from Tomorrow world. But a lot of their titles are normal releases. They are a bit naughty like that.
Is the disc you get in the UK authored with the same disc image as the US? Maybe they did not use the same gymnastics method, even if the contents appear similar.
post #2063 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

This post? I see no mention of this issue there.

Quote:
don't get me wrong: it's not blindingly lightning fast but it is improved noticeably compared to the -93. On the downside, I also get occasional audio dropouts when bitstreaming HD MKV (with DTS-MA Audio) to the receiver via HDMI but when the Oppo is set to LPCM it is flawless. I'm not sure if it is the Oppo or the NAS is at fault but this is identical to my experience with the -93.
post #2064 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

We're discussing dropouts from Blu-ray. Presumably MKV files are not organized like these "branching" discs. MKV problems do not necessarily predict BD behavior.
Edited by Roger Dressler - 12/29/12 at 3:05am
post #2065 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Hi ja.jo, can I ask what device you are using for movie play back?

I am using a custom built HTPC with Nvidia/Linux/XBMC. I play a .mkv, not the actual disc. It might be the reason why I do not get any dropouts.

Regards,
Jacob
post #2066 of 2083
Cheers Jacob,

My disc converted to an ISO file suffers dropouts on both my PCH & Dune streamer, same place each time, same with the disc.

The Dune will output 7.1 LPCM, which looks like the future for me.

I may out of interest look at converting to mkv?
post #2067 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Cheers Jacob,
My disc converted to an ISO file suffers dropouts on both my PCH & Dune streamer, same place each time, same with the disc.
The Dune will output 7.1 LPCM, which looks like the future for me.
I may out of interest look at converting to mkv?

ISO and MKV is a big difference, since the ISO will be identical to the disc, while the MKV will be stripped so that it only include the video and audio stream.

I always strip out all presentation graphics (subtitles and extras).

/ j
post #2068 of 2083
Just to add to this I recently had problems with the Dredd BD. Audio dropouts occurring at regular intervals. I usually bitstream ISOs or BD folders from my Dune but tried LPCM as well which made no difference whatsoever.

In the end I remuxed the movie playlist using tsMuxer to a BD folder and it worked perfectly. I think from now on I am going to Remux all the new movies I wish to stream rather than rely on ISOs.

From what I have read these drop-outs are caused by a new copy protection method, so perhaps it is player dependent at the moment. Certainly there have not been any Firmware updates to the Dune recently enough to deal with this.

For what it is worth I don't think this is the same issue I had with Brave though as I managed to cure that by changing my settings on the ADA, not by remuxing.

Adam smile.gif
post #2069 of 2083
That's interesting Adam, I was under the impression we both experienced Audio drop out during the same scene in 'Brave', yet I am unable to avoid this Bitstreaming, I have even tried with the PEQ set to there lowest levels, however, I was able to 7.1 LPCM from my new Dune streamer and suffered no audio drop outs during the whole film. smile.gif

I have yet to test to see if there is any difference in SQ between LPCM and Bitstream, but on first listening it doesn't appear so to me..

I will have a look at tsMuxer, I have never heard of this before?
post #2070 of 2083
Basically you use it to strip out everything from the disc but the movie itself, choose the audio and subs to keep or discard etc.

It is bit perfect and depending on the disc you can save a lot of disc space. A typical 45 gb disc may only contain 25gb of movie.

Of course on discs without branching you can usually just keep the largest mt2s file for similar results although you will still get all the included languages.

Adam smile.gif
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