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ADA Mach 4......WOW!!!! - Page 3

post #61 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clsmooth391 View Post

It has much greater clarity and detail and makes the AV888 sound warm and slightly muddy in comparison.

There seems to be quite some interest. I have been waiting a while for my unit to come through as they've been a lot of pre-orders.

Thanks for the reply,

From my previous experience with Arcam the warmth to the sound is not a surprise.

The ADA pre-pro's I have had in the past were always amongst the best performers for movies, only bettered by the Halcro.

People who say all pre-pro's sound the same for movies have just not auditioned enough in there own systems to hear the difference like you have.

I hope you get your ADA soon.
post #62 of 2083
any update on the balanced version of the mach 4??? Any idea when it is coming out??
thanks
post #63 of 2083
They are shipping right now. We have already delivered some to our dealers in the UK.
post #64 of 2083
Can someone please post some pics of the rear of the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV-B ?
post #65 of 2083
Any chance we'll ever see a Mach 4 with digital outputs?
post #66 of 2083
Anyone out there replace there current pre-pro with the new ADA HD units besides the Arcam 888 comparison already mentioned?

Also a question for Richard from ADA:

Is there a sound quality difference between the Cinema Rhapsody regular version and the balanced version? Would there be a SQ difference between the balanced version and the regular version with your outboard RCA to balanced converter?
I only ask as someone stated that the balanced version would sound better due to how you implement it inside, not just a RCA vs XLR comparison.
post #67 of 2083
has anyone used the mach4b that can tell us about the sound compared to the anthem or classe??
post #68 of 2083
I only ask as someone stated that the balanced version would sound better due to how you implement it inside, not just a RCA vs XLR comparison.

I don't know what "how you implement it inside" means. An un-balanced single ended RCA input has less juice [voltage] driving the pre amp stage and is for short runs vs. a balanced XLR connection.

Not sure if the implentation is different at all when it comes to SSP and DAC chipset firmware.
post #69 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

I only ask as someone stated that the balanced version would sound better due to how you implement it inside, not just a RCA vs XLR comparison.

I don't know what "how you implement it inside" means. An un-balanced single ended RCA input has less juice [voltage] driving the pre amp stage and is for short runs vs. a balanced XLR connection.

Not sure if the implentation is different at all when it comes to SSP and DAC chipset firmware.

Like I mentioned, I don't get how the balanced version would sound better unless it was a longer run so I hoped Richard from ADA could respond. I wish I could find were I read about the balanced version but it had nothing to do with the DSP or dacs.
post #70 of 2083
HI Guys,

The balanced unit uses a linear power supply stage and dumps all of the legacy video switching interfaces as well as adding the transformerless balanced outputs.

This combines to give the balanced unit a better SNR as noted:

For the Cinema Rhapsody and Suite 7.1 HD
Digital Input: 109dB THD: 0.00137%
Analog Input: 104dB THD: 0.00137%
Analog Bypass (direct 7.1): 105dB THD: 0.00070% (not on S7.1HD)

For the Cinema Rhapsody Balanced
Digital Input: 111dB THD: 0.00070%
Analog Input: 116dB THD: 0.00070%
Analog Bypass: 116dB THD: 0.00040%

Now on the meter these are distinctly different results with the Balanced being notably better.

In the real world you need to have an exceptionally quiet room and amps with a similarly good SNR performance before the difference becomes audible.

Comparing a Suite 7.1 HD and the Rhapsody Balanced in a system with Aerial Acoustics speakers all running bi-amped from their own PF2502 amp the difference is clear. It is not night and day or different league but clearly better.

Also remember - you can squirt the exact same settings and EQ in to both units from the setup software which makes this type of comparison easier.

I have the cutsheet for the Balanced unit which is still not on the ADA website. Anyone wanting it can contact me.

Neil
post #71 of 2083
Thanks for the info ceenhad.

I heard basically the same thing but your explanation is a lot more clear.

I do know the XLR inputs sound better than the RCA inputs on my EAD PM2000 amp. Someone once told me that it was the way they implemented the XLR inputs and it is a noticeable difference with all the the levels matched and using the same model and brand RCA and XLR's cables. With other amps I have owned that have both XLR and RCA inputs I can't say I have noticed a difference besides sometimes being more quiet.
post #72 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

I have the cutsheet for the Balanced unit which is still not on the ADA website. Anyone wanting it can contact me.

Neil

Neil and all:

The cut sheet is now on line (oops). While the page is in the works, the cut sheet can be found under Literature > Product Data Sheets

Thanks

Richard
post #73 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

The cut sheet is now on line (oops).

Wow, what an elegant looking back panel:

http://www.ada.net/literature/produc...ductdatasheets
post #74 of 2083
This looks like one of the best SSPs currently available. When it gets the Trinnov processing update it will get even better. Users of the Suite 7.1HD in the sister UK forum are raving about the multi-channel sound performance compared to the competition. The Cinema Rhapsody Mach IVB is a step up so it will sound better as confirmed by Neil himself a couple of posts above.
post #75 of 2083
WOW= Just spoke to ADA there is about an 8-12 week leadtime to get the balanced unit!!! I was going to order one but cannot wait that long!!
post #76 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebop86 View Post

WOW= Just spoke to ADA there is about an 8-12 week leadtime to get the balanced unit!!! I was going to order one but cannot wait that long!!

Gary, why not ask your dealer or ADA to lend you another unit for the time being as I am fairly certain that they would do so to get an additional sale...
post #77 of 2083
Sorry - we keep selling them all here in the UK

Suite 7.1HD is on a shorter lead time right now but the success of these products is just outstripping everyones expectations.

Believe me - if there is a way for the lead time to be reduced then they will do it!
post #78 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haroon Malik View Post

This looks like one of the best SSPs currently available. When it gets the Trinnov processing update it will get even better. Users of the Suite 7.1HD in the sister UK forum are raving about the multi-channel sound performance compared to the competition. The Cinema Rhapsody Mach IVB is a step up so it will sound better as confirmed by Neil himself a couple of posts above.

Will Trinnov be an upgrade in the Mach 4 or not?

Would you need to send the unit back in or software upgrade?

When?
post #79 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Will Trinnov be an upgrade in the Mach 4 or not?

Would you need to send the unit back in or software upgrade?

When?

Although nothing is confirmed / known with certainty the best guess is that it will be an add-on/external box but again, that is just a guess at this moment and comes from comments made by Richard...
post #80 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

Although nothing is confirmed / known with certainty the best guess is that it will be an add-on/external box but again, that is just a guess at this moment and comes from comments made by Richard...

Trinnov Optimizer MC

http://www.trinnov-audio.com/en/opti...s/optimizer-mc
post #81 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Will Trinnov be an upgrade in the Mach 4 or not?

Would you need to send the unit back in or software upgrade?

When?

Jeff,
I think your questions will be best answered by Neil or Richard who would have far more authoritative information than me.

However, from what I've read so far on the UK forum, Trinnov will be added to the Mach IV but there is no definitive timeline for it. It will not match the sophistication of the stand-alone box but it will have quite a few key features of it making it quite a decent built-in room equalization software. The update should be a software upgrade as the Trinnov logo is already on the unit. The unit should have the horsepower so it comes down to the software IMO. The only hardware upgrade I've read about it is the "possibility" to swap out the HDMI 1.3 card for the HDMI 1.4 cards "if" there are no wholesale changes in the implementation of the newer version.


The stand-alone Trinnov box and ADA MACH IVB should be quite the combo.
One thing is for sure. ADA is coming out with a very strong product line-up of SSPs which are a good candidate amongst the competition.
post #82 of 2083
Haroon has it pretty much spot on so just to summarise:

First product with Trinnov EQ will most likely be the stand alone. I don't have lead times yet but Richard knows how much we want this one!

Second product will be the Trinnov add in for the Rhapsody but as yet no features or upgrade path are confrmed. Obviously the expectation is that we can do this with a software update but again I have no confirmation either way.

For anyone with cash to spend then the Trinnov Trinnov with Lynx DA / AD cards as required is pretty awesome and available right now.

One thing I would say about the professional level Trinnov systems is that getting the best out of them is no automated task. The basic measurements can do a great job but there are so many further refinements that can be made that really improve things if you know what you are doing.

One of the trickiest things about making a "built in" Trinnov is to know what to leave in to make consumer friendly enough without neutering the potential for someone with skills.

Neil
post #83 of 2083
Anyone own the balanced version of this?? THey're out right?

And the Mach IV vs the Classe' SSP800? Who'd win???
post #84 of 2083
Actually, is this piece even available now?
post #85 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Actually, is this piece even available now?

Yes, it is...
post #86 of 2083
Sonically, the Suite 7.1 and Mach IV are the same (same boards inside per ADA rep)... Other than that, what gives this piece the edge over the 7.1?

The Suite 7.1 is more available, so I'm asking..
post #87 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Sonically, the Suite 7.1 and Mach IV are the same (same boards inside per ADA rep)... Other than that, what gives this piece the edge over the 7.1?

The Suite 7.1 is more available, so I'm asking..

First off, sorry to everyone for the tight availability on these units. We didn't expect the demand to be as strong as it is (happy problem) and even though we have ramped up production, we are still dealing with back-orders. We are working on this and you should see greater availability down the road.

I think there are three factors to consider with respect to selecting the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV.

If front panel control is important to you, while both units let you do everything, the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV is more elegant and the Suite 7.1 HD more industrial.

From a connectivity standpoint, the Mach IV comes in two versions - with non-HDMI video switching or with balanced audio outputs.

For the unit featuring composite, S and component inputs, we did not bother including any transcoding in our preamp but instead designed it to include a video processor loop which works much like an audio processor loop on two-channel preamps. This permits you to incorporate the scaler of your choosing while still switching inputs on the Mach IV. Essentially, all sources connect to the Mach IV (including audio) and the non-HDMI video outputs of the Mach IV (composite, S and/or component) connect to the scaler. The scaler's output (HDMI) connects back into the Mach IV (the same HDMI input is used for all non-HDMI sources). In the setup of the Mach IV, while each input has it's own distinct audio jack assigned to it, it has both a non-HDMI video input as well as the HDMI input from the scaler. As inputs are selected, the audio is processed and the corresponding non-HDMI video is sent to the scaler and then back into the Mach IV via HDMI and out to the display.

If neither balanced audio or non-HDMI switching is important, the Suite 7.1 HD might do.

The third and IMHO most critical differential between the two units is that the Mach IV features a second crossover (fixed 80Hz) that can be used in conjunction with the one in the DSP. Essentially, this permits you to run full range capable speakers in "Large" mode while still extracting bass from these channels to send to the subwoofer output (along with bass from other channels and the .1 LFE channel). So if you are using full-range speakers in your home theater array, the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV (either one) is the way to go.

I hope this helps.

Richard
post #88 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

First off, sorry to everyone for the tight availability on these units. We didn't expect the demand to be as strong as it is (happy problem) and even though we have ramped up production, we are still dealing with back-orders. We are working on this and you should see greater availability down the road.

I think there are three factors to consider with respect to selecting the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV.

If front panel control is important to you, while both units let you do everything, the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV is more elegant and the Suite 7.1 HD more industrial.

From a connectivity standpoint, the Mach IV comes in two versions - with non-HDMI video switching or with balanced audio outputs.

For the unit featuring composite, S and component inputs, we did not bother including any transcoding in our preamp but instead designed it to include a video processor loop which works much like an audio processor loop on two-channel preamps. This permits you to incorporate the scaler of your choosing while still switching inputs on the Mach IV. Essentially, all sources connect to the Mach IV (including audio) and the non-HDMI video outputs of the Mach IV (composite, S and/or component) connect to the scaler. The scaler's output (HDMI) connects back into the Mach IV (the same HDMI input is used for all non-HDMI sources). In the setup of the Mach IV, while each input has it's own distinct audio jack assigned to it, it has both a non-HDMI video input as well as the HDMI input from the scaler. As inputs are selected, the audio is processed and the corresponding non-HDMI video is sent to the scaler and then back into the Mach IV via HDMI and out to the display.

If neither balanced audio or non-HDMI switching is important, the Suite 7.1 HD might do.

The third and IMHO most critical differential between the two units is that the Mach IV features a second crossover (fixed 80Hz) that can be used in conjunction with the one in the DSP. Essentially, this permits you to run full range capable speakers in "Large" mode while still extracting bass from these channels to send to the subwoofer output (along with bass from other channels and the .1 LFE channel). So if you are using full-range speakers in your home theater array, the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV (either one) is the way to go.

I hope this helps.

Richard


Helps quite a bit (thanks!)
1. What is the lead time for a Mach IV? ANy favors to get to the front of the line??
2. No balanced version of the Suite 7.1?
3. What does the 8 channel balanced / unbalanced converter run (MSRP)? And how well does it work compared to a full balanced unit? Is it powered?
4. How important are balanced outputs for short runs and does it really help against hums or would a ground lift accomplish the same goals (if needed).
5. Would you be able to use an outboard (or inboard) Trinnov in the future with either unit?

Thanks!!
post #89 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Helps quite a bit (thanks!)
1. What is the lead time for a Mach IV? ANy favors to get to the front of the line??
2. No balanced version of the Suite 7.1?
3. What does the 8 channel balanced / unbalanced converter run (MSRP)? And how well does it work compared to a full balanced unit? Is it powered?
4. How important are balanced outputs for short runs and does it really help against hums or would a ground lift accomplish the same goals (if needed).
5. Would you be able to use an outboard (or inboard) Trinnov in the future with either unit?

Thanks!!

1. We are considering the taking of the first born but are not finalized yet.
2. No balanced option for the 7.1 albeit you can add the XLRX-8 external 8 channel converter.
3. $999 is our current price for the XLRX-8. It is externally powered (external supply and transformerless). Nice unit. While you save $1000 by combining the 7.1 with an XLRX, I personally believe the 2nd crossover well worth going for the Mach IV.
4. For short runs between pre/pro and amp, I doubt you will notice the difference but others may think differently. In the many years and shows I have done, where very clean wiring is often not possible, we seem to avoid ground loop hums.
5. The TEQ works with either balanced or unbalanced inputs as well as balanced or unbalanced outputs.

BTW, we just did our first dealer event with the TEQ-8 prototype. Very exciting
post #90 of 2083
Hello Richard,

good to hear that the Trinnov implementation is making progress.

TEQ-8 suggests it will be an 8-channel solution - therefor one subwoofer channel.

- Are there plans to support more individual subwoofer channels in the future (with one of the pre/pro's and another Trinnov external unit - I know, I know - not even the first TEQ has been launched and already questions about the next big thing...)?

- Can you talk about the TEQ-8 feature set - you mentioned (8) balanced/unbalanced inputs/outputs. Is there an all digital interface present as well? This is in order to avoid the additional A/D D/A steps! Will any of your upcoming pre/pros support such a digital link to the TEQ unit? How does your TEQ-8 unit compare to the latest Trinnov optimizers (Stereo and multichannel) - does it use the same algorithms, resolution, ...?

- Talking about upcoming pre/pro's... I am much interested in the balanced Rhapsody Mach IV - but I am holding back because I demand an Trinnov Auto EQ solution. I prefer it to be integrated - but if an external box is necessary I certainly require an "lossless" all digital link.

So I would like an update on the progress of integrating Trinnov tech into the Rhapsody!

Thank you!
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