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ADA Mach 4......WOW!!!! - Page 30

post #871 of 2083
Richard

Is there firm pricing yet on the Teq's as of yet?
post #872 of 2083
Jeff:

Beat me by a minute...
post #873 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
DACs with ganged volume controls. But it's more complicated than that. Unbeknownst to most users, the volume controls are used to normalize the audio. As the DSP performs various functions, like surround processing or downmixing, it often applies gain scaling to protect the headroom. For PLII it is 3 dB, for stereo downmixing it can be more like 10 dB. The analog volume controls are used to compensate for this so that the audio levels remain constant as these modes are turned on and off. An external DAC/volume control will not be involved in this operation, so the user will have to manually deal with it.
This would only be an issue if changing between these modes changes the relative volumes of the channels - this would screw up the initial channel trim levels. Not sure if you're implying this would be the case.

In a Theta based scenario, getting all Theta GenVIIIs would also solve the problem, because volume control information is send from the CBIII to the GenVIII DACs. You could also use the (discontinued) Theta external multi channel analog volume control box, which is also controlled by the CBIII.
post #874 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post
This would only be an issue if changing between these modes changes the relative volumes of the channels - this would screw up the initial channel trim levels. Not sure if you're implying this would be the case.
No, the gain shifts are global.

Quote:
In a Theta based scenario, getting all Theta GenVIIIs would also solve the problem, because volume control information is send from the CBIII to the GenVIII DACs. You could also use the (discontinued) Theta external multi channel analog volume control box, which is also controlled by the CBIII.
Good point. If the exported volume control info is indeed the mirror of what they feed to the internal DACs, all is well. That would also cover the channel trims, too. There's a good example why using Theta's outboard DACs will make life a lot nicer than with any other studio DAC.
post #875 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
HWat is the final MSRP on the TEQ 12?

Thanks, Richard.
Good question

TEQ-12 $15,999
TEQ-8 $12,999
TEQ-4 $9,999

TAP Microphone (Tetrahedral Acoustic Probe) - $799 (the all-metal one)
Each TAP is individually calibrated referenced to its serial number. The calibration file is loaded by Trinnov into the respective TEQs. Simply connect the TEQ to a network and it phones home. Very nice.
post #876 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
No, the gain shifts are global.

Good point. If the exported volume control info is indeed the mirror of what they feed to the internal DACs, all is well. That would also cover the channel trims, too. There's a good example why using Theta's outboard DACs will make life a lot nicer than with any other studio DAC.
Nicer, but very expensive. You can also put a bunch of Placette 2 channel passive remote volume controllers slaved together behind the DACs (1,000 per 2 channel), and attenuate the DACs output signal passively.
post #877 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Oh, so it's not I/O, just O.

DACs with ganged volume controls. But it's more complicated than that. Unbeknownst to most users, the volume controls are used to normalize the audio. As the DSP performs various functions, like surround processing or downmixing, it often applies gain scaling to protect the headroom. For PLII it is 3 dB, for stereo downmixing it can be more like 10 dB. The analog volume controls are used to compensate for this so that the audio levels remain constant as these modes are turned on and off. An external DAC/volume control will not be involved in this operation, so the user will have to manually deal with it.
Hi Roger,

I don't quite understand what your are saying. Could you please give an example of what would happen to the signal for someone using four PS Audio PWD DACs, which have their own volume controls, with the Casablanca outputting 7.1 digitial? Let's say the Casablanca is expanding 5.1 to 7.1 via PLIIx.

Thanks,
George
post #878 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

Hi Roger,

I don't quite understand what your are saying. Could you please give an example of what would happen to the signal for someone using four PS Audio PWD DACs, which have their own volume controls, with the Casablanca outputting 7.1 digitial? Let's say the Casablanca is expanding 5.1 to 7.1 via PLIIx.

Thanks,
George

If the gain shift is global, this would not be a problem at all. You would have a global change in volume level as you change between modes.

The real problem would be calibrating and keeping the 4 PWDs volume controls is synch. I believe you can do it though. First, since PWD does not have L/R balance, you need to use the volume control on your Sub to balance your Sub/Center volume which run through one DAC. Then you need the balance the other 3 DACs, with the Sub/Center DAC. Finally you control all four PWDs with a single remote control that all four PWD dacs respond to with the same volume increments, and you're in business!
post #879 of 2083
Roger,

"No, the gain shifts are global."

There are conditions where they aren't global too. For example Lexicon's have a feature called Vocal Enhance. This boosts the level of the vocal content in the center speaker.

If you set this to +3dB the Lexicon digitally drops the level of the center speaker only by 3dB. At the same time the Lexicon boosts the analog level of the center speaker by 3dB to keep the level of the center speaker balanced. This gives itself digital headroom to apply the 3dB of vocal enhance processing in the digital domain.

There are also relative level changes between channels depending upon what mode is selected.

Shawn
post #880 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post


If you set this to +3dB the Lexicon digitally drops the level of the center speaker only by 3dB.

Shawn

I thought all the level management at least on the MC8 is done in the analog domain after the DACs. Each channel pair has a digitally controlled analog attenuator. This is used for master volume as well as speaker trims and options such as the center boost/cut. They simply apply an offset to the master gain control number for each channel but yes, the control is digital.

Now the MC12 may be different but I know for a fact the MC8, MC4, MC1, DC2, and DC1 all work this way.

Link to datasheet for the MC8 and MC4 part. The MC1 and below used a Cirrus Logic chip with lesser specs.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pga2310.pdf

My MC8 is modified with an 8 channel pre-volume output to feed a metering package so I guess I can easily test this.
post #881 of 2083
"I thought all the level management at least on the MC8 is done in the analog domain after the DACs."

For main speaker level balancing, the faders, balance control and main volume control that is correct... it does it all in the analog domain.

But there are places where small level changes are done in the digital domain too. The vocal enhance for example as explained above. Or in the bass management.. you can't simply mix multiple channels of 0dBFS data into a single subwoofer output.. it will clip. You have to apply a digital level trim to the channels as they are mixed into the subwoofer output then make up for that digital level trim in the analog domain.

"I can easily test this."

Give it a shot. I have done the opposite many Lexicon's with 8 channel analog bypasses installed. When you do this and switch through processing options and modes you see how the system is tweaking relative levels of the channels using the analog controls. These are not global changes, they are making up for differences in the digital domain levels.

Shawn
post #882 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"No, the gain shifts are global."

There are conditions where they aren't global too. For example Lexicon's have a feature called Vocal Enhance. This boosts the level of the vocal content in the center speaker.

If you set this to +3dB the Lexicon digitally drops the level of the center speaker only by 3dB. At the same time the Lexicon boosts the analog level of the center speaker by 3dB to keep the level of the center speaker balanced. This gives itself digital headroom to apply the 3dB of vocal enhance processing in the digital domain.

There are also relative level changes between channels depending upon what mode is selected.

If these other modes are like Lex's dialog enhance mode, proprietary to Lexicon, then it will not be an issue for the CB-IIIHD users.

Quote:
Or in the bass management.. you can't simply mix multiple channels of 0dBFS data into a single subwoofer output.. it will clip. You have to apply a digital level trim to the channels as they are mixed into the subwoofer output then make up for that digital level trim in the analog domain.

Yes, but that would only present an issue for non-Theta external DACs if the bass summing scale factors were changed based on the number of channels, so as to always run at max dynamic range. That would be possible, but an unjustified complication since, by definition, bass management for a 7.1 source (worst case) sounds great, so there's no lack of dynamic range for any of the other modes.
post #883 of 2083
"If these other modes are like Lex's dialog enhance mode, proprietary to Lexicon, then it will not be an issue for the CB-IIIHD users. "

Theta has that center spread function which will remix center material back into L/R. Presumably that will involve some digital level manipulation to again avoid clipping.

Shawn
post #884 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"If these other modes are like Lex's dialog enhance mode, proprietary to Lexicon, then it will not be an issue for the CB-IIIHD users. "

Theta has that center spread function which will remix center material back into L/R. Presumably that will involve some digital level manipulation to again avoid clipping.

The question is whether they dial in the protection on a channel-by-channel basis, or keep life simple with a global offset. For such small gain offsets, it seems unnecessary to parse it by channel--just adds to headaches keeping it all straight. But it is a valid question that anyone thinking of using non-Theta DACs should consider.
post #885 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Richard

Is there firm pricing yet on the Teq's as of yet?

Lon:

If you are interested in room correction I can strongly recommend the Trinnov technology.
I might be one of the few who had the chance to test the pro unit @home. It improves the soundstage in a significant way without degrading it. In addition Trinnov "survived" a 12 month (!) lasting evaluation of the irt institute.
Just pm me if you want to know more

Norm

PS: If it wasn't mentioned in the thread before it would be interesting what DAC stage is used inside of the TEQ, if it was designed by ADA or Trinnov and if the audio signal is reclocked in any way?
post #886 of 2083
Thanks Norm, just completed having my system calibrated with a QSC 322, however if the TeQ12 out performs it by a large margin I may consider next year
post #887 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicksbass View Post

In addition Trinnov "survived" a 12 month (!) lasting evaluation of the irt institute.

Did IRT publish any of their findings? Did it straighten Gunther's curls?
post #888 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Thanks Norm, just completed having my system calibrated with a QSC 322, however if the TeQ12 out performs it by a large margin I may consider next year

Hi Lon, QSC not bad either! You are faster than me, I am still struggling with myself, I'll keep you on track, how the story is going on
post #889 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Did IRT publish any of their findings? Did it straighten Gunther's curls?

Ahhh, the head of audio - never met Gunther in person (nor his curls... )
I'll try to pm you the presentation I have, but you need the fish to translate, the graphs should be self-explaining. Don't know if anything else was published.
post #890 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post
Good question

TEQ-12 $15,999
TEQ-8 $12,999
TEQ-4 $9,999

TAP Microphone (Tetrahedral Acoustic Probe) - $799 (the all-metal one)
Each TAP is individually calibrated referenced to its serial number. The calibration file is loaded by Trinnov into the respective TEQs. Simply connect the TEQ to a network and it phones home. Very nice.
Damn sounds familiar...
post #891 of 2083
Does anyone have a Mach IV or 7.1 HD in the Denver, Colorado area?

I willing to drive a few 2 or 3 hours from Denver to listen if someone is willing. I have heard great things but do not want to buy site unseen. frank at ADA said it could be 3 or more months before they could send me a unit to keep for up to 30 days.

Thanks
post #892 of 2083
David,
This is from ADA's website. Why don't you contact him and ask this question. Maybe he can point you in the right direction.

I was lucky and got a unit in two weeks back in November. I also wouldn't buy anything without listening first in my HT. I put my Meridian up for sale the next week after I got the Mach IV.
Ken

Location - Region Phone Number Email
Rocky Mountain Region 303-421-3000 keith@avreps.net
post #893 of 2083
Thank you for the info.

I did call them. Unfortunately they have stopped carry ADA. When I spoke to Frank he said they need to update the website because they do not have a Rocky mountain rep right now.
post #894 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

Thank you for the info.

I did call them. Unfortunately they have stopped carry ADA. When I spoke to Frank he said they need to update the website because they do not have a Rocky mountain rep right now.

I believe that you might have contacted our prior rep firm and yes, it took a while to change our web site. Currently, we are represented by the fine people at Centennial Marketing and I thank Ken for posting their information and it kills me to have say this but the phone number on line is wrong (Doh :-|)

Their number is 303-421-2000. Please give them a call as I am certain that they would be happy to assist you.

Now onto contacting our web master;-)
post #895 of 2083
Thank you for the information Richard. I will call later today.
post #896 of 2083
Called Centennial Marketing, did not realize they are about a 45 minute from me, unfortunately they do not have any MAch IVs in stock or dealers with any. I will have to see if coporate can do anything in the next few weeks or I will just end up looking for something else.
post #897 of 2083
I'll be getting mine as soon as the new batch ships. Since there are no dealers in my area, what is the best way to set up the peq? I'm technically proficient, and willing to learn. Anyone have a primer on eq setup with a pc that I can look into? Thanks!
post #898 of 2083
I my opinion, you need someone with experiene in the PEQ process but also, and more importantly, experienced with the ADA software. The process is not simple and is equally important in my mind to calibrating a projector.

The person I used did an excellent job. If you want more information then PM me.
post #899 of 2083
Well, now that the Theta boys have their HDMI and ADA is soon to release an update, time for a little OT. Just received my '11 Porsche Turbo S yesterday. Got it out for a bit today but have to break it in and be easy on it for a few hundred miles.

Ordered it in Azure Blue (flat, non-metallic vintage Porsche color) exterior and a 2-tone Creme and Black interior. Road and Track has it at 2.7 seconds 0-60 and 10.5 sec 1/4 mile.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #900 of 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Well, now that the Theta boys have their HDMI and ADA is soon to release an update, time for a little OT. Just received my '11 Porsche Turbo S yesterday. Got it out for a bit today but have to break it in and be easy on it for a few hundred miles.

Ordered it in Azure Blue (flat, non-metallic vintage Porsche color) exterior and a 2-tone Creme and Black interior. Road and Track has it at 2.7 seconds 0-60 and 10.5 sec 1/4 mile.

Sweet
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