ADA Mach 4......WOW!!!! - Page 32

For sure, Dolby Volume is not an HDMI 1.4 feature as it's available on HDMI 1.3 devices for some time now. It's been a firmware upgrade on some other pre-pros. Don't know about the rest of your questions.

Just curious as to why you would use Dolby Volume in your particular theater Jeff? I understand there is some benefit a low volume levels. But it's hard to imagine firing up the theater to listen this way.

Seems like Dolby Volume's value would be for the flat screen surround system in the family room; more for TV watching.

Simply for watching TV. the commercials are just so darn loud once the sports action stops.

Dolby Volume is a feature of the 1.3 units only ADA had it disabled because of an apparent bug in the Dolby code. My understanding is the bug has now been fixed by Dolby and ADA have activated it on the 1.4 units. What isn't clear (to me) yet is whether it is a software or hardware update that can only be carried out as part of the proposed 1.4 update?

I am most keen on the fix to the PEQ which is actually preventing me from using it (Dolby Volume would be nice) and have no particular use for 1.4 at present or more accurately don't want to spend the cash on it yet. I am hoping a firmware patch will fix the 'bugs' and a (paid for) hardware upgrade won't be necessary unless you specifically want 1.4.

Adam

I'm with you on a 'no need' for HDMI 1.4. Mainly as I have no interest in 3-D and because I don't want upset the apple cart - my ADA is rock solid stable. I am really digging it!!

Good to know. I am anticipating these fixes as well. Obviously they are all solved in current production units... but I would like them as well.

I know other brands that had similar issues with the Dolby volume and they fixed via firmware update only... as you said it was a coding issue not a hardware one. Hopefully ADA only had to change the code and can impliment with a firmware change.

Someone would be so good to tell me how to have the ADA PC software?
Thanks!

I'm not sure, but this sounds a lot like the same problem I found in the SSP-800, not just in the sub channel, but in any channel or frequency where the PEQ is set for a higher Q value, like >5. The noise was not constant, but only present when a signal within that frequency band was present. Turned out to be a problem in the MDS firmware, and was apparently a bit of a project to fix, as it required some restructuring of the DSP architecture. That in turn caused Classe to have to rework their code, so it took a few months. It was fixed almost a year ago in the particular MDS board Classe (and now Theta) uses, but I suspect ADA uses a different platform.

Hi Roger,

It may be similar, I originally thought it was just the LFE channel but it occurs if a PEQ filter is activated in any channel, it was just easier to hear running REW sweeps in the LFE channel. I never did any checks to see if it was Q related.

Adam

Hi guys,
I have a Rhapsody Mach III but since this question applies to the Mach IV as well, I'm hoping it's ok to post it here since there are no active Mach III threads. Since there are no HDMI inputs on the Mach III, I'm trying to get the multi-channel analog inputs set up properly with my blu-ray player. I have ADA's software that you use with a PC hooked up to the pre/pro but am not 100% sure about the "Advanced Speaker Options" tab in the Pro Setup section. I watched the video tutorial that Richard from ADA narrates regarding setup of the Mach IV, but am still a little confused about exactly how the Advanced Speaker Options work. My understanding is that setting the front, center, surround, or back speakers to "small" in this tab engages an 80Hz crossover for the 7.1 analog inputs, which is what I'd like to do. I'd also like to boost the sub channel by +10dB which I believe can be accomplished by the "Sub Input +10dB" button. Richard mentions in the tutorial that by using the "Advanced Speaker Options" tab, all source material regardless of input (HDMI, digital, analog, etc.) will pass through both the DSP crossover and the 80Hz crossover in the "Advanced Speaker Options" tab. Does this mean that this 80Hz crossover then negates/overrides any crossover setting that you have set using the normal menu system in the pre/pro itself (the DSP crossover)? Also, if I use the "Sub Input +10dB" button on the "Advanced Speaker Options" tab, will that apply a +10dB boost to every source regardless of input (which is not what I want to do), or just boost the sub channel of the 7.1 analog inputs by +10dB (which is what I'm looking for). Finally, if I set all of the speakers to small, which will engage the 80Hz crossover, is there any need to set the "Sub Summing" tab to active? My understanding is that if you are running speakers as large (full-range), then setting the "Sub Summing" tab to active will not only send bass to the speakers set as "large," but will also send that same bass to the sub, essentially duplicating bass. In my case, where all my speakers will be set to "small" and rolled off at 80Hz, all of the bass will automatically go to the sub, so will the "Sub Summing" tab have any effect one way or another?
Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.

If you're running everything at 80Hz and above (except sub) then you don't need to activate the advanced speaker options tab at all. Set the speakers to small with a 80 x-over and you're good. Make sure that you set up the speakers in your blu-ray player as well- 7.1 input is just like using the direct 2.0 mode (no processing, just the analog volume control). So set your x-over in the player to 80, set your levels and delays in the player (just like doing it for the preamp), and you should be good. DTS is already +10db for the LFE signal anyway- so be careful about the sub level setting, unless the player has the ability to attenuate the DTS signal like the Rhapsody does.

Dan

Dan,
The reason I'm trying to activate the advanced speaker option is because otherwise I don't get enough bass when using my blu-ray player through the 7.1 analog inputs. I have the OPPO BDP-83 and it's my understanding that it outputs analog LFE -10db when speakers are set to large and -15db when any speakers are set to small. I'm trying to avoid losing that extra 5db that results from using the player's crossover. That's the other reason I was asking about the "Sub Input +10dB" button in the advanced speaker settings. If possible I'd like to boost the sub input for just the 7.1 analog inputs rather than all the way around which then results in my regular analog and digital sources having too much bass.

Actually the Oppo LFE output is -15 dB all the time. Oppo confirmed it after I queried them. If you are using the Oppo to do the bass management, the recommendation is to leave the LFE gain at 0 dB to maintain unclipped headroom. However, if you are not doing bass management, it is perfectly fine to set the gain to +5 dB to bring it back to nominal -10 dB.

I think Dan is saying that the Rhapsody Mach III has no ability to digitize the multichannel inputs. If true, you have to do bass management in the Oppo. If you feel the bass is still 5 dB weak, there ought to be a way to define a custom channel gain for the M-ch source, and you can correct it there.


DTS works the same as all the other codecs. It has no +10 dB boost built in except for some very old DTS CDs which were mastered "oddly."

Ok, so if the OPPO is -15dB all the time regardless of whether its bass management is used, then the issue of using the Advanced Speaker Options tab in the ADA software to engage the 80Hz crossover for the 7.1 analog inputs is moot, but I'm still wondering about the "Sub Input +10dB" button that's on the Advanced Speaker Options screen. I'm thinking this may be the "way to define a custom channel gain for the M-ch source" as you put it. Will that button only result in a boost of the sub input for the 7.1 analog input, or will it boost bass by 10dB on all inputs? If it boosts bass for all inputs across the board (digital, analog, and 7.1 analog) then I'm back to square one again.

I realize the 7.1 analog inputs do not digitize anything and that they are strictly "passthrough" analog inputs, but according to Richard in the Rhapsody Mach IV video tutorial, the Advanced Speaker Options tab will, in fact, engage an 80Hz crossover on the 7.1 analog inputs in the event that your player doesn't offer bass management and I believe this is also the case for the Mach III as well.

I don't know if it s nomenclature issue or a real issue. The menu you'd ideally want would be dedicated to the particular 7.1 analog input only, not to the speaker configurations. Sorry, I am not familiar with how ADA handles those specifics.


If that means it has analog bass management, then you indeed have the additional option of using that instead of the Oppo's. In that case you can deactivate bass management in the Oppo and set its LFE output to +5 dB.

the mach 4 has the analog crossover in addition to the digital one, the mach 3 did not.

Dan

Dan,
I hooked my PC up to the Mach III last night and did a lot of playing around with the software. By using the Advanced Speaker Options tab you can, and I did, engage an 80Hz crossover for the 7.1 analog inputs. I believe the Mach II does not have this feature, but the Mach III does. The Sub Input +10dB button will also boost bass on the 7.1 analog inputs. However, the trade-off for engaging the crossover for the 7.1 analog inputs is that it does, in fact, override the crossover settings for the DSP. For me, this isn't an issue as I keep all my speakers crossed over at 80Hz all the time. Unfortunately the "Sub Input +10dB" button on that screen boosts bass not only for the 7.1 analog inputs, but also for all other inputs across the board, so I opted to leave it off and instead boosted bass through the 7.1 analog inputs using the OPPO's bass management.

I am still not 100% sure exactly what the "Sub Summing" tab does. Could someone who is familiar with ADA's software comment on that? I think it may only apply to someone who is running full-range speakers who wants to send bass to both the full-range speakers and the sub, but I'm not certain about that.

Finally, I also discovered that with ADA's software you can adjust the level of the pink noise that is generated internally in the Rhapsody (See the attached screen shot. "Noise Spk Level Up/Dn, Noise Sub Level Up/Dn"). Could someone explain to me why there would be an option to do this? I thought that internal pink noise generation would always be at a constant level, therefore allowing consistency in setting your speaker levels to 75dB or whatever you choose to set them too. It seems like if the pink noise levels are adjustable then that throws off the whole equation. After I got my speaker levels calibrated to 75dB I noticed through ADA's software that the pink noise levels were set to -0.5dB for the speakers and -11.5dB for the sub. Why would you not always want both of those set at 0dB? When I did set both of them to 0dB, the sub pink noise was much too loud and would have required me to turn the sub trim down to almost -20dB. Any help (in layman's terms as I am far from an engineer and/or audio expert) would be greatly appreciated.

Well that's cool! I skipped the Mach 3s, do in this case; I'm glad I'm wrong.

cool for you. how is it working for you so far?

are you activating the sub limiter?

solo plus avatar tree attack is great for setting the limits- much if that chapter has below 20hz bass.

Dan

No, I didn't turn the Rhapsody's limiter on. I have a Seaton Submersive HP sub which is pretty much next to impossible to clip/overdrive, at least at any volume level that I'll ever listen to it at. By the way, the Submersive is an absolutely phenomenal sub if anyone is considering a new sub.

Isn't discovery half the fun?

The second analog-only crossover was in fact part of the Mach II series which featured a multi-pin (25-pin D) connector as an input. At the time, DVD Audio and multi-channel SACD were rearing their heads and the crossover, while fixed at 80Hz, provided a way to play these sources through any theater speaker setup. In the Mach II series, the crossover was relegated just to the bypass input.

By the time the Mach IIIs rolled out, the 2nd crossover was enabled for all inputs so that if you were running some/all large speakers in your system, you could still extract the bass information for summing with the other speakers that were small and the LFE to the subwoofer. To do this, leave both crossovers Large (at least for speakers that are going to be large), engage Summing and add the +10dB if you want.

If you are using the bypass input with small speakers, in the Advanced Speaker setup, set the speakers to small, engage summing and if you want, engage the +10db.

In your situation, I suggest storing this speaker arrangement as a preset and then create another speaker preset for your other inputs. If you have a control system, you can have the inputs programmed to automatically recall the desired speaker setup per input.

Needless to say that by the time we got to the Mach IVs, the ability to assign a speaker preset (there are four) to track an input was added. I guess they call that progress

I hope this helps.

Richard

Richard,
Thanks much for the info. When you say "control system" would that include being able to program a macro into my remote to first select an input and then change the speaker setup for that input? I assume by your second sentence that there is no way to have the Mach III automatically change speaker setups when changing inputs.??

Also, could you explain the function within the Mach III software that allows you to change the pink noise generator level. I don't understand why you would want to be able to change the level of the pink noise itself when trying to calibrate speaker levels (see my above post, #946, for more details on what the settings currently are).
Thanks.

Although a macro would better/best a button or two would suffice...and, for what it is worth, I have both in that each input is associated with a speaker setup but my remote provides me with the ability to change / override the automatic association..

I do not know about the MACH III but do know that the MACH IV does allow assigning different speaker setups to different inputs...




No idea bout this one...apologies...

Does "upgrade paths" mean that a new model of processor is possible?

I believe it is for the owners of HDMI 1.3 Mach IV SSPs like myself. I know there will be a path to HDMI 1.4. The Mach IV is essentially brand new. The HDMI 1.4 version is still a Mach IV.

Correct...I am in the process of having by HDMI 1.3 MACH IV B upgraded to an HDMI 1.4 MACH B...the reason sis NOT because I am interested in 3D but rather to stay current for an incremental cost...

Check out the new Harry Potter film. This film has one of the most impressive soundtracks. It is 5.1 but matrixed to 7.1, it was simply awesome. Very dynamic. Wow!!
This piece is still astounding me!! Crystal clear!

They took your Rhapsody back for the upgrade already? I was told that wasn't going to happen for a while to make sure the bugs were worked out.

Dan

I still use Discrete EX/ES. That will convert 5.1 to 7.1. Just pleased as punch with it! I know the upgrade is forthcoming.

talking to Joel: you sent the Rhapsody back already?

'Sorry Jeff, the reply was clearer in my head.

Dan

Hi guys

just got a demo of the balanced version of the Rhapsody Mach iv. what a gorgeous yet simple piece of equipment. The only problem is that the box showed up from my dealer without ANY documentation or software. Can someone point me to a manual download and software download? I figured out a bunch already, but i cant get to the IP sections with just the on screen menus.

Thanks in advance!

I think I some documentation. (RS-232 protocols, some instructions, ISO-e set up for IP control, etc). PM me your email address

Give me an hour or two. Just leaving for morning run.

Welcome to the high end in SSPs.