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Need Recommendation for Home Audio PC

post #1 of 42
11/16/09 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 
I am building a house and putting in a home sound system as well as a dedicated HT. In general for my audio system I am looking at low budget. I would like your inputs on a few things for it...

My current thoughts:
I will have multiples rooms that have ceiling speakers and an impedance volume control. It will be a very basic one zone system. Trying to keep it all as cheap as possible for now. Will upgrade later (am running CAT5 to volume controls for future upgrade). I am going to have the audio system be controlled by a single PC. (One source). The PC will have all my music on the HD and will also use it to access internet radio and other such things. I am thinking I will control the PC via remote access using my laptop wherever I happen to be in the house. So my PC will be hooked to and amp which powers all the speakers in the house.
The 'tricky' part is that I will also have a home theater, which is on a separate amp, separate speakers, etc.
I would like to also be able to play music from the PC on these speakers (or both @ same time). So I assume I will need an audio card with two outputs? Suggestions here welcome.
Also, I would like if I can have the PC hooked to my projector as well (through the receiver its connected to). I will then obviously need a video card that can handle this. My main question here is about the resolution.
I would like to surf the internet on my projector (though wouldnt do it a lot) and do things like watch streaming netflix movies. Has anyone done this on a projector? How does it look?
Finally, it would be nice if I had a way to turn off the audio system amp from upstairs (amp is downstairs). Any ideas there? Cheap IR remote?
Would also love some suggestions on remote access and general media player software.

What I have / will have:
- ~6 rooms with ceiling speakers, each with an impedance volume control
- a projector and speakers connected to an amp separate from sound system
- an electronics closet where all the amps and PC and gaming systems and such will be located- all wires lead here.
- PC case, motherboard, optical drives, hard drives, processors, & memory

What I need to pick out still:
- which amp to use for my audio system (one zone, cheap)
- ***audio and video card for the PC with appropriate outputs***
- software- remote access, media player, etc

thanks a bunch!
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post #2 of 42
11/16/09 at 11:37am
Even though you'd like to keep it cheap as possible for now, I'd recommend going with a Squeezebox for the 1 zone music. Its wireless, so you could place it right next to the whole house amp, and it streams internet radio as well as your own music collection. I think it would be a much more user friendly experience, and if you wanted to break it up into multiple zones, you could add more squeezeboxes. Can often find them for a discount on Ebay.

If you're dead set on spending as little as possible, you should be able to use a 2nd sound card (usb based even) to get the audio to the whole house amp. However you're going to have to run some wires to the RCA connections there if they aren't already.

What is the resolution of your projector? I have a midlevel (Marantz) 720p projector and can browse the web with it fine sitting about 12 ft away. However with replacement bulbs being in the $300+ range, I typically use one of the other machines in the house if I'm just browsing the web. I can't speak to netflix quality, but many use it (and Hulu) on their projectors so I'm guessing its at least sufficient.

Concerning remotely turning off the downstairs amp, I use x10 PEX units (http://www.amazon.com/X10-PEX01-REMO...8400196&sr=8-4) (much cheaper on Ebay) to convert the IR to RF, broadcast it throughout the home, and then back to IR - works great.
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post #3 of 42
11/16/09 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
the projector is a runco rs-1100 (didnt go cheap with the HT) 1080p.

No matter what I am going to have a PC dedicated to media storage. I don't see the advantage of having my PC somewhere else in the house and sending it wirelessly to a sqeezebox connected to the amp vs just having the pc connected to the amp.
Or am I missing something there?

Thanks for the info on the IR transmitter. Looks like that is about what I want.
As for web browsing, I certainly wouldn't use the projector a whole lot for that, more just for showing a bunch of people something online. And again mainly for things like netflix streaming if that looks half way decent.
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post #4 of 42
11/16/09 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post

the projector is a runco rs-1100 (didnt go cheap with the HT) 1080p.

No you didn't! Nice...

Quote:


No matter what I am going to have a PC dedicated to media storage. I don't see the advantage of having my PC somewhere else in the house and sending it wirelessly to a sqeezebox connected to the amp vs just having the pc connected to the amp.
Or am I missing something there?

Well you'd still have all the media on the PC, the Squeezebox doesn't store it, just streams it. Ultimately I'm looking at ease of use / WAF. In your scenario, you're going to have to go find the laptop, potentially turn it on, remote into the media server, launch the player, etc. just to play some music. Vs grabbing the Squeezebox remote which as a built in screen and selecting your music that way. I know if I had to tell my wife to do the former, I'd be walking her through it for 30 min listening to her get more and more pissed - but your scenario might be entirely different.
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post #5 of 42
11/16/09 at 1:18pm
I have this exact same setup for my whole house. Here is what I have done.

I am using a Denon receiver to power the whole home audio. I have the PC using the analog stereo outs to the Denon receiver's CD input. I then use the Zone 2 analog output on the Denon to send the audio to my Yamaha receiver's CD input. I also have the Yamaha's Zone 2 analog output going to the VCR1 input on the Denon receiver.

This way I can send the analog audio from PC audio to the home theater or send the home theater analog audio to the whole house.

I know you said one zone, but I think you can get a AV receiver with a zone 2 output for rather cheap. What Amp/Receiver do you have in your home theater?
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post #6 of 42
11/16/09 at 2:06pm
Thread Starter 
brianley- yes, yes i did they were on uber sale this summer.
considering i am the wife, im not to concerned about your anticipated problem. I actually have my laptop on and ready to go 99.9% of the time that I am at home. I think I'll stick with the PC until I upgade the system.

edit: Also one of the main things im wondering about- what is a good easy-to-use reliable quick (etc) remote access program?

poraxan- great to hear someone has the same setup! i cant remember what receiver I have for the HT.. its older but pretty good. one zone. im not worried about sending whatever is plugged into the HT receiver going through home sound system. i at least currently cant think of when i would want that. Do you (or anyone else) have a recommendation on a 2 zone amp then? I assume with this setup you can have the PC music playing out of HT speakers and house speakers at same time?
Whats the advantages / disadvantages of having a 2 zone amp there vs a dual soundcard type setup?
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post #7 of 42
11/16/09 at 3:34pm
I've never tried to use 2 soundcards at the same time. Not sure how that would work. If you are looking for something on the cheap for Zone 2 capability, I would try some clearance sites or try ebay.

I use Microsoft's Remote Desktop to remote into the PC that is connected to the whole house audio receiver. I also have a program on my Windows Mobile phone called Signal that allows me to remotely control Windows Media Player on my PC so I can control the audio that way as well. You just need to remember with Remote Desktop to change the settings so the audio stay at the remote PC. I think the PC would need a Windows Professional (XP, Vista, 7) version to get remote desktop to work; however, I am sure there are freeware solutions out there.

The reason I have the Receivers hooked to each other is I use XBMC on an Xbox that is connected to the Home Theater Receiver. The zone 2 output on the Home Theater Receiver sends the audio to the other receiver and lets me send it to the entire house. I set the Home Theater receiver to 5 channel stereo so I get the 6 sets of speakers in the house and 5.1 Home Theater playing all the same music. Good for parties and such. So I either can use Windows Media Player on the remote PC to play the music over the whole house or XBMC for Xbox to do the same thing but with a pretty UI.
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post #8 of 42
11/17/09 at 4:38am
Thread Starter 
thanks for the advice so far.
Any have suggestions for video cards? Whats the best way to get high quality video from PC to projector (via receiver)
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post #9 of 42
11/17/09 at 6:06am
I may have read your original post incorrectly, but I believe you said you already have a dedicated HT receiver as well as a separate physical amp for the whole house audio, correct? If so, there's no need to get another receiver with zone 2 capabilities, for all intensive purposes you already have it.

What does your media pc consist of? If you get a new video card that supports audio over HDMI, you can use that audio (and video) source for the theater receiver, then use the current analog soundcard (if there is one) to output to the WHA amp.

I also recommend MS's remote desktop, just make sure to configure it to leave the audio at the source rather than play it over your laptop. Another product is VNC.

As far as video card recommendations, check out Renethx's excellent guide http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14239742

In general most any of the ATI models > 4500 and nVidia model > 8500 (expect 8800) support hardware acceleration, but if you want to bitstream HD codecs, you'll need to look at the newest models.
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post #10 of 42
11/17/09 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianley View Post

I may have read your original post incorrectly, but I believe you said you already have a dedicated HT receiver as well as a separate physical amp for the whole house audio, correct? If so, there's no need to get another receiver with zone 2 capabilities, for all intensive purposes you already have it.

I take it this means using 2 sound cards? Have you done this before? Does it work? I guess another route would be to split the audio signal from a single output source (the PC) and send it both receivers (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...3118&sku=41066). But if you want to use Netflix from the PC you will probably want to send the audio over to the Home Theater Receiver using a digital connection to get 5.1/7.1 sound.


Quote:
I also recommend MS's remote desktop, just make sure to configure it to leave the audio at the source rather than play it over your laptop. Another product is VNC.

Remember though, MS's remote desktop requires you have a professional version of the MS OS on the PC. Also, if you are going to remote desktop into the PC for audio you are fine to leave it at the PC. To use the PC and see the info on your projector it won't work. If you remote desktop into the PC from say a laptop, the video is diverted to your remote desktop session on the laptop and the projector will show the logon screen. If you wanted to use the projector as a monitor you will need to get a wireless mouse and keyboard. Another alternative is to install Windows Media Center and use a Windows Media Center remote to control the content (or another media player type software that allows control with a remote).

It sounds like you would like a HTPC. You should take a look at some of popular solutions such as XBMC for Windows/Linux, MediaPortal, Windows Media Center, etc...

I agree with brianley that you may not need a zone 2 receiver. It works for me because my receivers are in separate rooms on separate floors of my house. Sounds like you will have everything housed in one closet.
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post #11 of 42
11/17/09 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by poraxan View Post

I take it this means using 2 sound cards? Have you done this before? Does it work? I guess another route would be to split the audio signal from a single output source (the PC) and send it both receivers (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...3118&sku=41066). But if you want to use Netflix from the PC you will probably want to send the audio over to the Home Theater Receiver using a digital connection to get 5.1/7.1 sound.


Remember though, MS's remote desktop requires you have a professional version of the MS OS on the PC. Also, if you are going to remote desktop into the PC for audio you are fine to leave it at the PC. To use the PC and see the info on your projector it won't work. If you remote desktop into the PC from say a laptop, the video is diverted to your remote desktop session on the laptop and the projector will show the logon screen. If you wanted to use the projector as a monitor you will need to get a wireless mouse and keyboard. Another alternative is to install Windows Media Center and use a Windows Media Center remote to control the content (or another media player type software that allows control with a remote).

It sounds like you would like a HTPC. You should take a look at some of popular solutions such as XBMC for Windows/Linux, MediaPortal, Windows Media Center, etc...

I agree with brianley that you may not need a zone 2 receiver. It works for me because my receivers are in separate rooms on separate floors of my house. Sounds like you will have everything housed in one closet.

I think we're both making assumptions based on the info provided - I assumed the projector would be used as the monitor in the theater and no RDP would be necessary when watching a movie. However, you are correct, if they were watching a movie and then remoted into the pc to turn on music in the rest of the house, well that would be a problem for those watching the movie.

Most media players allow you to select what output device (soundcard) to send the output to. In the past I have directed output from different players to different soundcards, however I've never tried doing multiple at the same time - I don't think it would be a problem, but again I haven't tried it firsthand.
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post #12 of 42
11/17/09 at 9:17am
I'm sure I didn't read your post as carefully as I should to really get your requirements, but here's what I've done and you can probably extend or change to suit your needs.

Built a HTPC with HDMI out, added an e-mu 1212m soundcard. Output from onboard HDMI goes to TV. Analog output from e-mu goes to my pre-amp. Using squeezecenter on a NAS as my music server going through "squeezeslave-asio" command line app. set up as a windows service with an ipod touch to control the music. Ipod touch has ipeng app on it ($10) which controls through my wireless network. Since the music is through the asio driver on the e-mu it automatically goes to pre-amp. Sound from Netflix on demand, etc (windows 7 media center) goes through HDMI. No manual switching needed

Hope this helps...
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post #13 of 42
11/17/09 at 11:19am
Hi friesepferd,

I do something very similar to what you are outlining, only use a touchscreen in my kitchen to control the media instead of remote access, though I do occasionally use the latter.

For general remote access, I love the simplicity and dependability of UltraVNC. I have it on all my machines and use it constantly.

I don't know of many soundcards that can simultaneously use two different outputs for two different media streams, but you can achieve what you want fairly easily by installing two separate soundcards (you can use USB if you don't have any free PCI slots) and using software that allows you to individually configure what kind of media goes to which card. I have an HTPC in my basement that is connected to my projector via HDMI which also serves whole house audio via a second soundcard. So Zoomplayer plays the movies and outputs audio to Soundcard A and Winamp plays the music and outputs to Soundcard B, which in turn is connected to a multizone amp, which feeds various rooms.

Make sense?
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post #14 of 42
11/17/09 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensibull View Post

Hi friesepferd,

I do something very similar to what you are outlining, only use a touchscreen in my kitchen to control the media instead of remote access, though I do occasionally use the latter.

For general remote access, I love the simplicity and dependability of UltraVNC. I have it on all my machines and use it constantly.

I don't know of many soundcards that can simultaneously use two different outputs for two different media streams, but you can achieve what you want fairly easily by installing two separate soundcards (you can use USB if you don't have any free PCI slots) and using software that allows you to individually configure what kind of media goes to which card. I have an HTPC in my basement that is connected to my projector via HDMI which also serves whole house audio via a second soundcard. So Zoomplayer plays the movies and outputs audio to Soundcard A and Winamp plays the music and outputs to Soundcard B, which in turn is connected to a multizone amp, which feeds various rooms.

Make sense?

With this config, are you able to change the whole house audio (start it, stop it, load a new playlist) without disrupting a movie that is playing? Is the projector configured as a secondary monitor and only active when Zoomplayer is launched?
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post #15 of 42
11/17/09 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianley View Post

With this config, are you able to change the whole house audio (start it, stop it, load a new playlist) without disrupting a movie that is playing? Is the projector configured as a secondary monitor and only active when Zoomplayer is launched?

Yes, exactly. The primary display on the HTPC outputs VGA to a VGA switch that feeds touchscreens in the basement and the kitchen. Xlobby runs on the touchscreens, allowing me full and separate (non conflicting) control of both video and audio content.
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post #16 of 42
11/17/09 at 11:32am
Quote:


I don't know of many soundcards that can simultaneously use two different outputs for two different media streams

You can use certain creative labs cards along with the KX drivers. If you get the right Audigy card, then you have a very basic 4 source/4 zone card. I've done a pretty elaborate multi source/7 zone setup in my house using two Audigy Value's with the KX drivers, using xlobby as the frontend.

Sensibul has the right idea, direct each media source to a different sound output, and each can be individually controlled.
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post #17 of 42
11/17/09 at 11:42am
I'd just like to add that many A/V receivers are now network-enabled. I can use my laptop (or even my cell phone!) to control the receiver through a web interface (for switching to the proper input and volume control, for example) and use a VNC client to control my Media Server PC and stream audio to the receiver from it using the "Play To..." function in Windows.
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post #18 of 42
11/17/09 at 11:48am
Maybe this thread can give you some ideas for controlling the playback software...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...remote+control

Peter
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post #19 of 42
11/18/09 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
- i have a reciever for the HT
- i dont yet have one for the home sound, but plan on getting one
- i plan on getting a new soundcard. i assume the one i have has a cheap or built in one as well though
- if im playing netflix from the pc, for sure want 5.1 sound.
- just realized i can stream netflix thru my ps3. im considering just not hooking video from pc to HT reviever then.. mainly wanted it for netflix. though still would like to keep that as an option. how much of a pain is using the ps3 for netflix streaming? iv never tried it
- the likelyness that i need to output sound to HT speakers from PC and output a different sound from PC to WHA speakers is not high, so not needed, but could be nice.
-sensibull- ok, so if i can have an hdmi output going to HT reciever that gives me audio and video there, and a normal soundcard to my WHA amp and have them play seperately?
- what kinda card do you suggest for the audio video hdmi output?
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post #20 of 42
11/19/09 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
bump?
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post #21 of 42
11/19/09 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
hdmi video card suggestions anyone?
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post #22 of 42
11/20/09 at 6:54am
I modified the link I posted earlier, but basically going to the same place. Renethx has recommendations for all HTPC components including video cards at low, mid and high end price points in that thread.

Quote:


As far as video card recommendations, check out Renethx's excellent guide http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...940972&page=85

In general most any of the ATI models > 4500 and nVidia model > 8500 (except 8800) support hardware acceleration, but if you want to bitstream HD codecs, you'll need to look at the newest models.
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post #23 of 42
11/20/09 at 2:09pm
(hope i'm not hijacking thread) -

Under XP, i was using 2 sound cards for a couple of reasons:

1. I have a high end DAC which converts 44.1 to stereo analog but anything encoded (DTS) of course just produces noise - good for music though.
2. I used multiple login remote desktop patch so i could tunnel in the back door and play music into another room from the media center, which the kids were still watching TV in the living room.

in XP, all i did was set WMP to once card and MCE to another - works well - music from one card, TV, DTS etc. from the other.

Windows 7 only seems to use one device - default device, so i cannot get this setup working. Anyone have any suggestions?
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post #24 of 42
11/20/09 at 2:18pm
(hope i'm not hijacking thread) -

Under XP, i was using 2 sound cards for a couple of reasons:

1. I have a high end DAC which converts 44.1 to stereo analog but anything encoded (DTS) of course just produces noise - good for music though.
2. I used multiple login remote desktop patch so i could tunnel in the back door and play music into another room from the media center, which the kids were still watching TV in the living room.

in XP, all i did was set WMP to once card and MCE to another - works well - music from one card, TV, DTS etc. from the other.

Windows 7 only seems to use one device - default device, so i cannot get this setup working. Anyone have any suggestions?
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post #25 of 42
11/20/09 at 4:22pm
I'm using two cards (onboard and pci) in windows 7. The pci card uses asio drivers which I use to output for 2 channel stereo. If your card doesn't have asio drivers, maybe asio4all?
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post #26 of 42
11/21/09 at 5:27am
Can you automatically divert music to one card and DTS to another without manually switching?
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post #27 of 42
11/21/09 at 10:49am
Yes, but it may be because of the asio part.
There are app's (previously used winamp) that will let you direct to a particular soundcard that will not affect default windows settings, so you direct winamp to the soundcard for stereo and leave the rest defaulted to the other card used for MCE.
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post #28 of 42
11/23/09 at 4:27am
Thread Starter 
ok its official: im confused.

an HDMI cable can carry audio and video, but there are sound cards with hdmi output that only output sound and video cards with hdmi output that only output video.
What card outputs both hdmi sound and video?

Also there has been plenty of discussion about telling one program to output to one soundcard and the rest output to the other soundcard. That would be helpful for me to do but not necessary. what I NEED to be able to do is output the same sound out of both outputs at the same time.

If I have one card that is audio/video hdmi output (if that exists) and one audio card, can i output the same sound out of both one time and the next output media player (or something) out of the audio and something else out the hdmi?
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post #29 of 42
11/23/09 at 11:34am
I believe Any AMD card from the HD3xxx up will output HDMI video and audio limited to the same audio as a SPDIF can carry. I believe the AMD HD5xxx cards will do any HD audio format such as DTS-HD or whatever it's called.

I don't think any cards will output just HDMI audio - the HDMI connection relies on the video device to be there to negotiate the connection. Some receivers and cards may allow it though depending on how lucky you are.

I don't think you can output audio on the HDMI and another sound card at the same time. I might be wrong though, maybe some programs allow multiple devices to be selected.

You can easily use video playback software to output video and sound over HDMI and a different music program to output audio only on a different sound card.

Peter
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post #30 of 42
11/24/09 at 3:41am
Thread Starter 
ok, well I NEED to be able to send auto+video to one reviever and the same auto to another reciever at the same time.
Unless I am mistaken, nobody has yet to post a solution for this other than buying a two-zone reciever for the HA, sending the sound to it, and having the 2nd zone go to my other reviever, which my video goes to seperatly.
I find that to be a not optimum solution.
I can send my video using hdmi out, but unless i read it wrong two sound cards doesnt seem to be my solution

note: my HT reciever i already have and is one zone, so i couldnt send hdmi to it and have a 2nd zone set up as my HA reciever.

Any thoughts?
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