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"the upgrade company" <component mods> - Page 46  

post #1351 of 2187
This smear campaign just goes on and on and on.....

How come you never show up for A-B comparisons that are scheduled and publicized?
Afraid you will be proven wrong?

How come you never email or call me directly as I have offered publicly?
Not really interested in the furtherance of high-end audio are you?
Only interested in protecting the sham industry of "reviewing"?

Interesting you remain fully satisfied with your "For Profit Built" average performance.

Your track record is simply to stir up trouble and attempt to smear TUC's excellent name.
You make up phony problems that never exist. We have an A+ BBB rating and not one chargeback. Upgrade Company is the real deal.

Why would someone take time out of his or her day to come on this thread day after day with the smear campaign? What would motivate someone to expend all that time and energy time and time again?

Many readers I've spoken with feel that perhaps some of you hiding behind your online monikers are related to the retail high end audio racket: reviewers, manufacturers, and salespeople who continue to feel threatened by TUC's success. Perhaps worried we'll franchise out??

The public will lean more and more toward upgrading the gear they aready own rather then fork over thousands and thousands of their hard earned dollars for lower performance out of stock "For Profit Built" supposed "Latest and Greatest" models.

We're educating customers and obviously that scares the heck out of you.

Word is some are worried TUC will franchise out and really put a dent in all the crap manufacturer's are selling customers for huge profits. 5-10 cent capacitors have no business all over the inside of $5,000 - $80,000 units. Yet that's exactly what we find inside all over the place.

You can say anything you want on this forum and try like heck to make Upgade Company "go away".

Just isn't happening.

Your phony efforts are backfiring big time.
post #1352 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

This smear campaign just goes on and on and on.....

How come you never show up for A-B comparisons that are scheduled and publicized?
Afraid you will be proven wrong?

How come you never email or call me directly as I have offered publicly?
Not really interested in the furtherance of high-end audio are you?
Only interested in protecting the sham industry of "reviewing"?

Interesting you remain fully satisfied with your "For Profit Built" average performance.

Your track record is simply to stir up trouble and attempt to smear TUC's excellent name.
You make up phony problems that never exist. We have an A+ BBB rating and not one chargeback. Upgrade Company is the real deal.

Why would someone take time out of his or her day to come on this thread day after day with the smear campaign? What would motivate someone to expend all that time and energy time and time again?

Many readers I've spoken with feel that perhaps some of you hiding behind your online monikers are related to the retail high end audio racket: reviewers, manufacturers, and salespeople who continue to feel threatened by TUC's success. Perhaps worried we'll franchise out??

The public will lean more and more toward upgrading the gear they aready own rather then fork over thousands and thousands of their hard earned dollars for lower performance out of stock "For Profit Built" supposed "Latest and Greatest" models.

We're educating customers and obviously that scares the heck out of you.

Word is some are worried TUC will franchise out and really put a dent in all the crap manufacturer's are selling customers for huge profits. 5-10 cent capacitors have no business all over the inside of $5,000 - $80,000 units. Yet that's exactly what we find inside all over the place.

You can say anything you want on this forum and try like heck to make Upgade Company "go away".

Just isn't happening.

Your phony efforts are backfiring big time.

I have been asked to keep this thread open

you have been asked to limit your posts to technical issues
post #1353 of 2187
Several times I have asked you to post ONE part number of any item you deem needs replacing from ANY model of ANY brand and post what part you replace it with.

I have promised repeatedly and now again, to post all the specs of BOTH devices and you refuse or want a private email. WHY? Why can't you provide this information on the board because even if you answered a PM from me I would post my entire question and your answer(?) here.

You claim people are attacking you and your operation for making false and misleading performance claims.

Here is your chance AGAIN to prove them wrong.

You are obviously reading all these so you have no excuse not to answer me specifically and PUBLICLY.
post #1354 of 2187
who on TUS's staff is the experienced engineer who decides what mods to perform?
after doing so, I'm sure he has baseline and modded test data to confirm 'success' or if it's back to the drawing board...let's see that data...

things like noise, EFM strength, vibration, phase shift, data read error rate, etc. are easly measureable, put this all to rest and show us...

you obviously do what you do for a reason:
measured noise, it was high, so shielded something, re-measured, it was less

if you reduce S/N to 101 dB from 100, is that 'improvement' if it's not audible?

this sounds more like marketing with phrases like 'customer testimonial' and 'franchising'
show us some numbers, we're not stupid, more than a few engineers lurking about this place...
post #1355 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

MCLSOUND sent in a stolen player per his own admission. LOVED our Signature Edition upgrade. Decided he wanted Upgrade Co to SE upgrade his Denon 3930Ci but we had to drive 4 hours to meet him halfway because his player was stolen and he said he did not want it going through customs! MCLSOUND we have all of this on tape. How convenient of you to change the facts around and make bogus caims that something went wrong with you Marantz. Baloney. You would have sent it into Marantz Factory Service when we madre arrangements for you to do that. When you stated on tape that your Marantz was also hot and you did not want to risk that either, I gave the repair center of your choice in Canada, a place your buddy works at, our coroporate credit card to bill all charges to. Lo and behold not a penny was ever charged for over 6months time, no charges ever appeared, because the truth is there is nothing wrong with your player at all. Your statements are nothing more then trouble making and you have lost any credibility you had with conflicting reports.

Technically speaking,you may call Ontario Audio on whether or not the player is still there,they are a authorized Marantz factory service dept. and Krell and 95 more.

My question is whether or not covering up all the vents in the lids of these players with your super mat creates alot of internal heat,IS this good for a player?

Player is not hot my friend.
post #1356 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I have been asked to keep this thread open

you have been asked to limit your posts to technical issues

Mark, thank you for keeping this discussion open.

It would be nice if we could take up Zak on his offer. Certainly there has to be someone near TheZak with who is capable of putting together a proper blind ABX test between his "modded" and stock player.

You said you have a BD-05, no? If that is so, I would be more than happy to ship mine for the comparison if the attendee did not have one of his own.
post #1357 of 2187
If your "modded" unit really does sound better for the thousands of dollars it costs to upgrade, have you been provided factual evidence that "imaging, sound field, blah, blah, blah" has been improved by the magnitude which TUC has claimed?

If it "sounds" better to you, could it just be that some portions of the frequency range between 20Hz-22kHz have been augmented or attenuated sufficiently by the "mods" to cause you to discern subtle differences from stock that your ears perceive to be so sweet-sounding?

In that case, would it not be simple to take stock measurements across the range prior to the mods and then re-take them afterwards to evidence these subtleties?

Or better yet, should it not be an expectation that TUC with all it's lab-grade measurement equipment provide this along with the thousand dollar invoices?

Even if you're not inclined to read the documentation, wouldn't you expect it to be there for you should you ever have any questions or concerns?

I highly doubt you buy any other product without ensuring it has: directions, a complete users guide or manual, technical/troubleshooting section, and ingredients.

Even if you never read it.

But yet TUC "audiophiles" are willing to spend hard-earned money on blue-glued, tin-foil wrapped upgrades on your already costly units, without proper documentation?

Would you ever think to use/buy Ex-Lax without first reading the documentation and checking the ingredients?

What if they didn't provide it, citing trademark and proprietary issues?

Would you still buy it?

How about Preparation H?

And would you not then measure their "performance" by how quickly you achieved relief?

These are rather inexpensive products in comparison, but would you take the same blind risk as you did with your TUC mod?

The idea is simply to ensure your buying methods are grounded in common sense and logic that does not lead you to feeling "cheated" or "ripped off", whether it be $1 or $1000.
post #1358 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclsound View Post

Technically speaking,you may call Ontario Audio on whether or not the player is still there,they are a authorized Marantz factory service dept. and Krell and 95 more.

My question is whether or not covering up all the vents in the lids of these players with your super mat creates alot of internal heat,IS this good for a player?

Player is not hot my friend.

This portion of the discussion (whether it is stolen or not) has been beaten to death. It also has no relevance as to the mods performed, and the questions still remain, does tin foil and blue paint (which is much less than the "over 100 parts" claimed here by TUC and their site) make a difference. Attempts to discredit particular posters on this basis alone which is not verifiable is irrelevant.

Much like the discussion about a particular customer who is used to promote sales on TUC webpage, that aspect should be kept to PM.
post #1359 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

How come you never email or call me directly as I have offered publicly?

How come you make claims on a public forum and then repeatedly refuse to respond, within the context of that forum, to fundamental questions regarding those claims? Specifically, discussion of the measured data and DBT protocols which you claim, on your website, to use during product development.

Quote:


We're educating customers....

Then we share the same goal.
post #1360 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

You can say anything you want on this forum.

Obviously so can you.
post #1361 of 2187
At the very least, I would want something detailed in writing about the 7 day guarantee policy (the two sentences on the TUC website are a bit vague).

And if TUC does test each modded unit against some standard reference (as they claim on their website), I'd want that too when the unit is shipped to me.
post #1362 of 2187
[quote=MrHiEndAudio;18122473]

Quote:


This smear campaign just goes on and on and on.....

Not a smear campaign in my book. Just members here asking honest questions on your "mods" which you refuse to answer.

Quote:


How come you never show up for A-B comparisons that are scheduled and publicized?
Afraid you will be proven wrong?

Where and when were these A-B comparisons scheduled and publicized? Why not have one in the near future I'm sure there are members here from MI that would attend.

Quote:


How come you never email or call me directly as I have offered publicly?
Not really interested in the furtherance of high-end audio are you?
Only interested in protecting the sham industry of "reviewing"?

Why not answer the questions here? You took the time out for this post so why not answer the questions.

Quote:


Interesting you remain fully satisfied with your "For Profit Built" average performance.

So TUC is a non-profit company? You have bragged on several sites that you are making a boatload of money. So how is your company any different than the "For Profit Built" companies?

Quote:


Your track record is simply to stir up trouble and attempt to smear TUC's excellent name.
You make up phony problems that never exist. We have an A+ BBB rating and not one chargeback. Upgrade Company is the real deal.

Who are you referring to? Same old story about the BBB.

Quote:


Why would someone take time out of his or her day to come on this thread day after day with the smear campaign? What would motivate someone to expend all that time and energy time and time again?

Again this thread is not a smear campaign.

Quote:


Many readers I've spoken with feel that perhaps some of you hiding behind your online monikers are related to the retail high end audio racket: reviewers, manufacturers, and salespeople who continue to feel threatened by TUC's success. Perhaps worried we'll franchise out??

I'm sure they have. Worried you will franchise out, are you serious. If you do I'm going to buy all the available AVM Fluid and Tinfoil and resell it to TUC at a tidy profit.

Quote:


The public will lean more and more toward upgrading the gear they aready own rather then fork over thousands and thousands of their hard earned dollars for lower performance out of stock "For Profit Built" supposed "Latest and Greatest" models.

Huh.

Quote:


We're educating customers and obviously that scares the heck out of you.

Doesn't scare me in the least. You are right you are educating customers on which Mod company NOT to use

Quote:


Word is some are worried TUC will franchise out and really put a dent in all the crap manufacturer's are selling customers for huge profits. 5-10 cent capacitors have no business all over the inside of $5,000 - $80,000 units. Yet that's exactly what we find inside all over the place.

You mean like Dunkin' Donuts and McDonalds? Will you have drive thru service? I can see it now AVM Fluid in big dispensers like soft serve ice cream. Tinfoil by the trailer load.

Quote:


You can say anything you want on this forum and try like heck to make Upgade Company "go away". Just isn't happening. Your phony efforts are backfiring big time.

I hope you do not go away as this thread is just too entertaining to look away. What is backfiring is your futile attempts to make TUC look like a reputable company. "Just isn't happening"

Bill
post #1363 of 2187
Guys,

Although it was always risking an upset to the the applecart, this thread was slowly starting to head in the right direction - away from the negative stuff, and towards more reasoned discussion of the issues, rather than the opinions and personalities.

Its clearly obvious that we're pushing the boundaries for a popular forum, and there's no more stretch available. Before any more inflammatory posts go up, can we all sit on it overnight before going that one adjective too far, and risking throwing it all away.

My previous post was cut in half before posting in case it was too strong, and I still rubbed mclsound up the wrong way, which wasn't my intention. I really dont want to do that. From my own experience, I have very strong opinions indeed about this subject matter, opinions that I only expand on when talking to people face-to-face.

In this environment, I sit on my hands sometimes and accept this isn't some war that I or anyone else can win overnight, and trying to land some sort of winning punch isn't going to happen.

Thanks all,

Nick
post #1364 of 2187
One other thing -

I probably CAN organise a proper blind stock-vs-upgraded comparison next week if you're interested.

Nick
post #1365 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

Guys,

Although it was always risking an upset to the the applecart, this thread was slowly starting to head in the right direction - away from the negative stuff, and towards more reasoned discussion of the issues, rather than the opinions and personalities.

Its clearly obvious that we're pushing the boundaries for a popular forum, and there's no more stretch available. Before any more inflammatory posts go up, can we all sit on it overnight before going that one adjective too far, and risking throwing it all away.

My previous post was cut in half before posting in case it was too strong, and I still rubbed mclsound up the wrong way, which wasn't my intention. I really dont want to do that. From my own experience, I have very strong opinions indeed about this subject matter, opinions that I only expand on when talking to people face-to-face.

In this environment, I sit on my hands sometimes and accept this isn't some war that I or anyone else can win overnight, and trying to land some sort of winning punch isn't going to happen.

Thanks all,

Nick

Nick,

I think you make a good point. I also give you much credit for being a gentleman and answering many questions very patiently. But I think most of the negative posts here could be almost eliminated if DS would just answer a few basic questions and stop making ridiculous accusations. I mean this thread is about TUC and its owner's posts here are really one of the biggest issues.

Bill
post #1366 of 2187
+1 Bill on your last 2 posts. And it all could have been avoided except for one man and his paranoia.
post #1367 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclsound View Post

My question is whether or not covering up all the vents in the lids of these players with your super mat creates alot of internal heat,IS this good for a player?

Are you saying TUC covers up vent holes and slots? If so that is the most absurd tweak I ever heard.

Of course it will cause heat buildup and long term damage. No manufacture cuts holes in covers unless they absolutly have to.

1) This means hard steel dies must be made versus simple sheet metal bending. The "for profit" evil audio manufactures aren't going to do that if they can avoid it. Laser cutting? Sure! that's even more expensive per unit so nobody uses that for high volume production.

2) Consumer marketed equipment must pass FCC part 15. In Europe it must pass the CE directive which is even stricter for EMI/RFI emmisions. Any hole or slot has a negative influence on this criteria. Again they aren't going to cut holes or slots unless they are really needed to avoid heat buildup.

So covering them is a pretty stupid idea!
post #1368 of 2187
MCLSOUND, nothing was ever wrong with your player. I have your buddy Bruno on tape saying they found nothing wrong with it. Guess that explains why they did not charge TUC's credit card right? I certainly do not appreciate all of your continued lies.

You asked me to meet you halfway in Frankenmeuth MI after your Marantz upgrade return was held up in customs and "you got worried they had found out it was stolen".

I refused to upgrade your 3930Ci because you told me that both of you units were hot, and you did not want to risk sending the 3930Ci through customs.

Your own voice is on the telephone recording loud and clear. Along with your threats.

Instead of doing the right thing, you choose to engage in a public forum with outright lies over and over again.
post #1369 of 2187
I have nearly 30 years of personal experience modifying, upgrading, designing and building high end audio equipment.

The Upgrade Company LLC's long track record, genuine customer testimonials and "A+" Better Business Bureau rating speak volumes about our effectiveness, our credibility, and our customer satisfaction.

If you were truly interested in our products you'd try at least one out for yourself as so many others are doing. Take all the measurements you want.

We have upgraded hundreds of models to 100% customer satisfaction.

Showing up on a public forum in repeated attempts to smear our great name instead of emailing, calling or scheduling an appointment for an audition has exposed your agenda as nothing more then trying to cause trouble where none extists.
post #1370 of 2187
MR. HEA:

When are you going to do the right thing? The moderator has already asked to keep talk of things such as hot players out of the conversation. Yet you persist. That's a matter between you and mclsound. Couldn't you just say nothing was wrong with the player, nothing was found wrong by his buddy's shop instead of throwing these accusations of hot players, people being thieves, doing things illegal, reviewers, audio manufacturers, other mod companies coming here incognito conspiring to rid TUC off the face of the earth? And again not one shred of evidence on that. The talk of these companies shaking in their boots because TUC might franchise and soon you will be ruling the audio world and everyone will be bowing at your feet. Please, check your ego man. Don't you think you could help your cause better by using some tact? Do you honestly think you are portraying a positive public image? Why can't you do the right thing and just answer the questions asked here and provide the proof you say you have instead of making these ridiculous accusations, giving doubletalk and contradicting yourself all over the place? It's become obvious that you haven't because you can't.
post #1371 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

I have nearly 30 years of personal experience modifying, upgrading, designing and building high end audio equipment.

Please tells us about one and show us one (preferably in multiple picture form) of your "high end" audio equipment pieces that you have built from the ground up. Maybe even bring forward a mere single customer who possesses one of the these units.

That would certainly be a good start in demonstrating the expertise you claim for yourself with respect to the modification work you do. Or easier still, list a single part you have upgraded in any of your modifications work, as has been repeatedly been asked of you and which should be very easy to do with little fear of "trade secret" revelation on your part. Unless, you think that competitor "reverse engineering" can be accomplished by the listing of a single part?
post #1372 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

MCLSOUND, nothing was ever wrong with your player. I have your buddy Bruno on tape saying they found nothing wrong with it. Guess that explains why they did not charge TUC's credit card right? I certainly do not appreciate all of your continued lies.

You asked me to meet you halfway in Frankenmeuth MI after your Marantz upgrade return was held up in customs and "you got worried they had found out it was stolen".

I refused to upgrade your 3930Ci because you told me that both of you units were hot, and you did not want to risk sending the 3930Ci through customs.

Your own voice is on the telephone recording loud and clear. Along with your threats.

Instead of doing the right thing, you choose to engage in a public forum with outright lies over and over again.

You were just involved in having this thread "locked" and the first post you make is about stolen merchandise again. Are trying to get this thread "closed". Also, do we need to make an appointment with you to get measurements? You are becoming more and more ridiculous.
post #1373 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHiEndAudio View Post

I have nearly 30 years of personal experience modifying, upgrading, designing and building high end audio equipment.

The Upgrade Company LLC's long track record, genuine customer testimonials and "A+" Better Business Bureau rating speak volumes about our effectiveness, our credibility, and our customer satisfaction.

If you were truly interested in our products you'd try at least one out for yourself as so many others are doing. Take all the measurements you want.

We have upgraded hundreds of models to 100% customer satisfaction.

Showing up on a public forum in repeated attempts to smear our great name instead of emailing, calling or scheduling an appointment for an audition has exposed your agenda as nothing more then trying to cause trouble where none extists.

If you did not engage in the soap operas & simply provide real answers to the technical questions many have asked, this thread would not get out of hand. Rise above all the nonsense and stop with all the silly accusations. Unless it's your strategy to get this thread locked and swept under the rug ASAP. I personally don't feel bad for any customers who have purchased your services & are now upset, stop looking for the fabled audio unicorn. What I don't understand is why it is so difficult for you to answer honest & sincere questions regarding your own work. "You" stated that you do take measurements before and after. Now people want to find out more about your services, measurements & testing procedures, should be no big deal for you or anyone else. There is also concerns about your workmanship and that it tends to look unprofessional & sloppy. Since you have no formal training/education, naturally concerns arise about a lot of things.

It is only natural that so many people are suspicious of you, your work, and your customers. You have no degree in this field, are un-necessarily secretive when a person, especially in your position, should be as transparent as possible to gain trust from the public and potential customers. Add the fact that you make some "big claims" and refuse to offer any verifiable proof. You bare the burden of proof regarding your claims & services, not anyone else. It's only natural to assume that something is not right once you start adding things up.

So, how about you kindly check the ego and unwarranted accusations at the door, and get down to business. There is no conspiracy here. People should not have to call or email you on a "one on one" basis. Why not inform the entire public and get it over with already. The only person that can ruin your business is you. Perhaps it's time you changed your business model to prevent situations like this from happening. What did you seriously expect would happen when you decided to go into business? If someone really wanted your valuable trade secrets they would have had them long by now and there isn't one thing you could do to prevent that. It's called reality
post #1374 of 2187
[quote=MrHiEndAudio;18128838]
Quote:


I have your buddy Bruno on tape... Your own voice is on the telephone recording loud and clear.

The above says it all in the fact that TUC records customers phone calls. I know many big companies record phone calls for "training purposes". But TUC is a one man operation so why does TUC have the need to record customers phone conversations? Does TUC inform customers when they call that they are being recorded? I would hope so.

Quote:


Instead of doing the right thing, you choose to engage in a public forum with outright lies over and over again.

Hmmm.... aren't you doing the same thing DS?

Bill
post #1375 of 2187
after hearing from many members, we would like to keep this thread open and get to the bottom of this

still it is best members don't pile on...
post #1376 of 2187
Of course he wants this thread closed.

"You can say anything you want on this forum and try like heck to make Upgade Company "go away". "

It's not our efforts that are trying to make TUC go away. It's yours. And not just from this forum.
post #1377 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by shake and bake View Post

If you did not engage in the soap operas & simply provide real answers to the technical questions many have asked, this thread would not get out of hand. Rise above all the nonsense and stop with all the silly accusations. Unless it's your strategy to get this thread locked and swept under the rug ASAP. I personally don't feel bad for any customers who have purchased your services & are now upset, stop looking for the fabled audio unicorn. What I don't understand is why it is so difficult for you to answer honest & sincere questions regarding your own work. "You" stated that you do take measurements before and after. Now people want to find out more about your services, measurements & testing procedures, should be no big deal for you or anyone else. There is also concerns about your workmanship and that it tends to look unprofessional & sloppy. Since you have no formal training/education, naturally concerns arise about a lot of things.

It is only natural that so many people are suspicious of you, your work, and your customers. You have no degree in this field, are un-necessarily secretive when a person, especially in your position, should be as transparent as possible to gain trust from the public and potential customers. Add the fact that you make some "big claims" and refuse to offer any verifiable proof. You bare the burden of proof regarding your claims & services, not anyone else. It's only natural to assume that something is not right once you start adding things up.

So, how about you kindly check the ego and unwarranted accusations at the door, and get down to business. There is no conspiracy here. People should not have to call or email you on a "one on one" basis. Why not inform the entire public and get it over with already. The only person that can ruin your business is you. Perhaps it's time you changed your business model to prevent situations like this from happening. What did you seriously expect would happen when you decided to go into business? If someone really wanted your valuable trade secrets they would have had them long by now and there isn't one thing you could do to prevent that. It's called reality

Excellent post! You pretty much summed everything up, very factual. Everything that you asked of DS are very common queries about most typical business's. All the questions are very basic and not out of line at all. The way you refuse to answer simple questions and instead you try changing the subject and throw accusations at anyone you can think of really says alot about you. You are purposely avoiding these very pertinent questions, that's a singnal that something is definitely not right. People don't intentionally avoid certain questions without having something to hide. Why do you get so upset when people ask you to back up your claims? You only state opinions and very, very few facts. Do you honestly expect people to do business based on opinions? I bet you don't make purchases strictly based opinions and no facts. That would not be a very effective way to seek out the best products to purchase. Come back and be a man, answer the questions or at very least you could post the sheet of data that you didn't have a printer for? You must have that printer now. Looking forward to it!
post #1378 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWG707 View Post

People don't intentionally avoid certain questions without having something to hide. Why do you get so upset when people ask you to back up your claims? You only state opinions and very, very few facts. Do you honestly expect people to do business based on opinions?

Fair questions for sure, but I don't go along with the rhetoric that suggests people in fact won't do business based on opinions. In practice, they will, and they do. Now that might not be everybody's idea of how to chose equipment, but I think the more objective measures have largely failed us. I long ago stopped using specs, tests and even pro-reviews to chose gear, as that approach led to buying a string of duffers. I found that once I started using credible and informed opinions, I was more likely to get what I wanted. The internet helps, of course, though there are always opinions out there that will endorse anything you like if you look hard enough. Of course it means being able to qualify the opinions that you use, and thats a very human thing that takes time. Try to find someone else's review of something that you're familiar with, and see if there is some common ground. Listent to the language that people use and see if they are novice or experienced, dogmatic or enquiring, overly influenced by brand or price, etc. Hang around AVS and the like and after a while you get to know who to trust and who to ignore. I bought my Sony amp purely on the basis of a few user-reviews by people who convinced me they knew what they were talking about - I had never even seen one before I bought it, but it was a great buy. My first venture with TUC was much the same. Was I impressed with what I saw inside? Nope. Did I buy it on specs or measurements? Nope. Was it a great buy? You bet. And I dont know that my approach has been that different to all the other customers who do business based on opinions. Now that wont' suit everyone, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean its the wrong approach for everyone.

BR, Nick
post #1379 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

Fair questions for sure, but I don't go along with the rhetoric that suggests people in fact won't do business based on opinions. In practice, they will, and they do. Now that might not be everybody's idea of how to chose equipment, but I think the more objective measures have largely failed us. I long ago stopped using specs, tests and even pro-reviews to chose gear, as that approach led to buying a string of duffers. I found that once I started using credible and informed opinions, I was more likely to get what I wanted. The internet helps, of course, though there are always opinions out there that will endorse anything you like if you look hard enough. Of course it means being able to qualify the opinions that you use, and thats a very human thing that takes time. Try to find someone else's review of something that you're familiar with, and see if there is some common ground. Listent to the language that people use and see if they are novice or experienced, dogmatic or enquiring, overly influenced by brand or price, etc. Hang around AVS and the like and after a while you get to know who to trust and who to ignore. I bought my Sony amp purely on the basis of a few user-reviews by people who convinced me they knew what they were talking about - I had never even seen one before I bought it, but it was a great buy. My first venture with TUC was much the same. Was I impressed with what I saw inside? Nope. Did I buy it on specs or measurements? Nope. Was it a great buy? You bet. And I dont know that my approach has been that different to all the other customers who do business based on opinions. Now that wont' suit everyone, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean its the wrong approach for everyone.

BR, Nick

I definitely understand what you are saying but in this example concerning this particular business I don't understand how people would make decisions based upon opinion only. Some pretty extraordinary claims have been made, almost to point of being completely unbelieveble, so in this situation I don't see how anyone could or would make a decision without some (any) kind of facts, i.e. measurements and some kind idea what and why things were done. As I said before extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Not once has DS provided us (prospective customers) with any suppoeting evidence at all. It's always his typical double talk, contradictions, accusations, and insults; nice way to conduct business. We would simply like to hear him back up his claims. He said he's already done the testing, let's see the results. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
post #1380 of 2187
I can relate this to high performance automobiles...
every test has 2 components:
-objective: timed speeds, braking distance, laps, skid pad, etc.
-subjective: steering 'feel', ride comfort, practicality, brake pedal 'feel', looks, etc.

it's up to the observer to weight/prioritize the data, but it seems in the case of hi fi, we only get 1/2 of the data in some cases...why not both sets? can't the customer be trusted to be fair and objective?

with cars many times the objective stuff is similar (0-60 mph may vary by a few thenths, etc.), so the decison becomes subjective...

re: hi fi, wouldn't it be more honest just to say there is no measurable difference, so you must decide on subjective terms alone, ie, 'ear'?
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