or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › 2 Channel Audio › "the upgrade company" <component mods>
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"the upgrade company" <component mods> - Page 6  

post #151 of 2187
Quote:


In a sighted test, without level matching, we will never know if the TUC upgrade made a difference.

They expected to hear a difference, and they did. What a shocker.

Are you doing direct A-B comparison or do have to remove one then test one and repeat the process?

If you are A-B testing the Proceed/Lexicon compared to the 885 are you using some type of switch box?

Seeing that you had your 885 modded by TUC did Dave Schulte tell you what the mods were?

He seems to indicate that he will not disclose the mods by phone or e-mail but seeing you had the mods done I assume he would tell you what was done to your 885.

why would anyone spend money to upgrade equipment? If the person isn't satisfied, why not just buy something better?

Could you please clarify this point for me? Is it not worth having the mods done, even though there's an improvement?

This is where I wonder why someone would spend thousands and then 'upgrade' it.

There are quite a few loose ends; nearly all have answers, and some of which I can try to wrap up here.

My view is that the reason for an upgrade is not just to get an improvement in SQ. It is to get a bigger improvement than you’d get by upgrading to better stock equipment. That’s why I think its not worthwhile A-B’ing stock and upgraded kit (even though I have done that, unsighted and level-matched).

When I was comparing processors, I usually swapped connections with players and amps, which obviously did take some time. For some of the comparisons, though, I used a Sony integrated amp with two 7.1 analogue inputs. I was able to switch between processors using that, which was very quick and convenient.

I believe the most worthwhile comparison is between an upgraded Onkyo or Oppo or whatever, and the best stock unit you can get for the cost of the upgraded unit. That’s a fair and meaningful comparison, and gives the information needed to make a buying decision.

Beyond that, TUC make some big claims about their kit, and I was keen to put these to the test a best I could. Had I found that the Onkyo turbo (as I came to call it) was simply as good as the Lexicon or Arcam, I would have been satisfied and considered it a success. It was better than that, though. During the course of this year my system has steadily improved, and the Onkyo turbo continued to deliver better and better performance as the supporting equipment improved.

I think it achieves a level of performance that you would have to spend a great deal more to match. So from the justification point of view, I would say that it more than pays its way. Considering that it has such comprehensive interfacing and processing, the performance seems to be uncompromised (as long as you don’t do something stupid like using a two-pin power lead, or play CDs on a cheap video player).

Regarding the actual mods themselves, TUC won’t disclose them, and I don’t think that’s about to change. Their approach is different to everyone else, but I don’t believe it’s the wrong approach. Other mod-men state they change passives, regulators, clocks, op-amps etc, and give a sort of bill-of-sale. That’s pretty transparent, but how is a customer supposed to know that each mod will actually improve the SQ? I’d like to think I’m pretty well-informed, but I don’t actually know that – I can’t really make any sort of judgement on what modifications I should have to my equipment.

TUC take a different approach which is to guarantee the performance, not the modifications They will take a unit back, refund the upgrade cost and send a stock unit to replace yours. That sort of assurance has to take a lot of confidence, otherwise they would go out of business quickly. Instead, they seem to have all the work they can get – much of it repeat business. And that includes me. On my experience with the Onkyo, I went on to have a Denon 3800 BDCI upgraded by them.

Finally, even as a customer, TUC won’t say what the mods are, though I do have some idea. Yes, of course I’ve taken the lid off, but no, I won’t describe what I saw.

Gotta go, Nick
post #152 of 2187
Nick,

Thanks for your thoughts and answering the many questions asked. But I do not understand why you will not comment on what you saw when you opened up your modded unit. Legal disclosure of some sort?

I still see no reason why TUC will not disclose what the mods are being done to their modded units. It is mentioned in TUC's FAQ something to the effect it is not just the parts being upgraded that makes the improvements. Then what does make the difference? If it is Dave Schulte's expertise in the way he adds these upgraded parts then why not disclose the parts but not disclose his methods.

No offense to Nick or the other TUC customers but I think it will take a known audio reviewer (Kal) or known audio review site/magazine to look at the TUC modded units and compare them to the stock units to see if they are the real deal or not. If Dave Schulte is that confident in his work he would send Kal or known reviewers a modded 885 and BDP-83 so they can do some comparisons.

Bill
post #153 of 2187
Deja vu, Bill.
post #154 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

As far as support is concerned, I did have an issue with an upgrade, and I could describe what happened if people are prepared to listen without prejudice.

Could you expand on what problem you encountered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

The modifications do indeed improve the sound quality, but that is not enough to justify the cost, risk and inconvenience of having the mods done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

That apart, the upgraded Onkyo was better than all of them at everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

I think it achieves a level of performance that you would have to spend a great deal more to match. So from the justification point of view, I would say that it more than pays its way.

The first quote appears to be somewhat inconsistent with the two later quotes. You seem to have gone from stating you've had problems with the company and the modifications aren't worth it to outright praise of the company and value of the mods. These inconsistencies might lead lead one to believe you were you offered a free upgrade after your original post or something of that nature.
post #155 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughman View Post

Could you expand on what problem you encountered?







The first quote appears to be somewhat inconsistent with the two later quotes. You seem to have gone from stating you've had problems with the company and the modifications aren't worth it to outright praise of the company and value of the mods. These inconsistencies might lead lead one to believe you were you offered a free upgrade after your original post or something of that nature.

Hi Nick

Thanks for your follow up post and all of the information that you provided. Seems like you are very satisfied. However, everything in your last post seems inconsistent with your earlier statement:

"The modifications do indeed improve the sound quality, but that is not enough to justify the cost, risk and inconvenience of having the mods done."

I don't think your last post clarified this point. Are you saying that you do not recommend for folks to do the upgrade? If not, what are you trying to say. I apologize if I'm just not getting it.

Also, as I understand it, you made comparisons of the Onkyo Turbo with other processors. The other processors are 4-8 years old, whereas the Onkyo Turbo is a more current processor (couple of years old and new sound formats). Since I have an Arcam AV8, your information was really helpful in giving me a relative comparison of the performance of the Onkyo Turbo vs. an Arcam AV8/AV9. I very much appreciate the info.

But, I just wonder how the Onkyo would do compared to more current processors, like the Anthem D2V, Arcam 888, Cary Cinema 11a, Classe SSP-800, etc. It would be really cool to send an Onkyo Turbo to someone who has listened to the current generation of processors and get their take on it. There's a user named adidino (in New Jersey) that posts a lot about processors in the this forum (not this particular post). He's tried the current processors from Anthem, Lexicon, Arcam, Cary, and Classe. His long road has led him to his preference/reference, the Classe SSP-800 (the Arcam 888 in second place). Too bad we cannot get his take on the Onkyo Turbo.

By the way, I agree with a previous post that it would be cool to have a comparison of a stock Oppo vs. TUC SE Oppo vs. Modwright Oppo vs. any other upgraded Oppos. That would provide a relative comparison of not only the stock to an upgraded Oppo, but also upgraded Oppo vs. another upgraded Oppo.

Thanks again Nick for all the work you did in comparing those processors - your information is very helpful! It's just my curiosity that has me asking for more info...

Dave
post #156 of 2187
when dave finished my dv-9600 and was sending it back,i asked him if he had a comparison to the level of sound quality it now produces....his reply and i quote" it has the performence of a stock 3pc Esoteric P-03,D-03 and G-0RB worth $45,000".
there's what you get for $999USD...if you can believe this well he's your man!
also i was told both audio and video would improve,yet nothing in the digital side was touched($999USD),so there was no video improvements.
As far as modifications go,i learned my lesson and will concur with the gentleman who said that if your not happy,get a better stock player!!
But i would also like to say that we all(as audiophiles) like to try things,whether it is a $10,000 amp or a $2000 amp(all used of course,cannot afford new$$$$$),so we can say ""I TRIED IT""...and then we can draw our own conclusions.....
Well this is my own conclusion:$45,000 for $999,believe it or not???
post #157 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclsound View Post

when dave finished my dv-9600 and was sending it back,i asked him if he had a comparison to the level of sound quality it now produces....his reply and i quote" it has the performence of a stock 3pc Esoteric P-03,D-03 and G-0RB worth $45,000".
there's what you get for $999USD...if you can believe this well he's your man!
also i was told both audio and video would improve,yet nothing in the digital side was touched($999USD),so there was no video improvements.
As far as modifications go,i learned my lesson and will concur with the gentleman who said that if your not happy,get a better stock player!!
But i would also like to say that we all(as audiophiles) like to try things,whether it is a $10,000 amp or a $2000 amp(all used of course,cannot afford new$$$$$),so we can say ""I TRIED IT""...and then we can draw our own conclusions.....
Well this is my own conclusion:$45,000 for $999,believe it or not???

I have to agree that it does seem hard to believe. I also agree that there is a lot of risk involved. Having said that, I had my Pioneer BDP-05FD Blu Ray player upgraded by The Upgrade Company. Based on the negative posts, I was very nervous about this venture. However, after seeing posts by Rich and Nick, I thought I would take a chance.

David is a nice person to deal with - at least, in my experience. He is passionate about his work, and that "can" come across as negative, but I recognized it as passion and never have had an issue with him. I had to send the 05 back at one point, to have David make sure that the mods and sound were to his satisfaction. During that process, I asked him flat out one time if he was upset with me as a customer, and he mentioned that he was not upset at all with me as a customer, he was just upset with a little something that was missed by one of his employees on the upgrade. This made me feel more at ease.

In the next two weeks, I will be comparing the audio (two channel) of the 05 against Arcam and Cary CD players. For me, and this is an objective opinion, the 05 definitely sounds better than it did before. However, I need to do this dedicated test against other players, in order to really see how far it has come. I did do a test of the stock 05 against the Arcam and Cary players, before the upgrade, and the other players were definitely better than the 05.

Regarding video, it's a huge improvement. I use WALL-E on Blu Ray as a sample to compare. Before the upgrade, it looked pretty good. After the upgrade, it is clearer, with better blacks and better color saturation. I now notice that on all of the DVDs and Blu Rays I've been sticking into the player. It took about 150-180 hours for the video to show this improvement. After that first week of running the player continuously, I put in Bee Movie for our 4 year old, and my wife commented on how good the picture looked. She said she liked the color and that it was much clearer than before.

I don't have an original 05 to compare with, but I did compare the video with my Arcam DV27a DVD player. Before the upgrade, DVDs looked better on the Arcam. After the upgrade, the 05 has the color saturation and blacks of the Arcam, along with a more clear picture. It's now better than the Arcam.

This is my experience so far. I hope to have more audio comparisons after the next couple of weeks.

Dave
post #158 of 2187
thats funny because there is nothing in the video section touched according to the authorized(for marantz,denon,krell,sim2,runco,and about 95 more)repair shop it is still at...
post #159 of 2187
Quote:
Regarding video, it's a huge improvement. I use WALL-E on Blu Ray as a sample to compare. Before the upgrade, it looked pretty good. After the upgrade, it is clearer, with better blacks and better color saturation. I now notice that on all of the DVDs and Blu Rays I've been sticking into the player. It took about 150-180 hours for the video to show this improvement.

How could the upgrade possibly improve the video quality with Blu Ray? It just takes the digital stream off the disk and sends it to the TV. The TV is still receiving the same information as before.

After reading of imaginary video improvements, it's quite likely that the audio improvements were imaginary as well.
post #160 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

How could the upgrade possibly improve the video quality with Blu Ray? It just takes the digital stream off the disk and sends it to the TV. The TV is still receiving the same information as before.

After reading of imaginary video improvements, it's quite likely that the audio improvements were imaginary as well.

Hi WilliamZX11,

You may have missed some of my post, where I mentioned comparisons with the Arcam DV27a. I compared before the upgrade, and the Arcam was better. After the upgrade the 05 is better. One thing I did not mention is that I'm going component into my Pioneer Elite Pro-710HD rear projection TV, since that TV does not have a DVI or HDMI input. I used component outputs from both the 05 and the Arcam players. This is not imaginary, when there is something to compare it to, both before and after the upgrade.

Regarding imaginary audio improvements, I also have units that beat my 05 before the upgrade, and I will be comparing those same units with the now upgraded 05 in the next couple of weeks. That comparison will provide a real - not imaginary - assessment of how the 05 now compares with those units.

While I appreciate your comment, it simply does not apply here.

Thanks, Dave
post #161 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

How could the upgrade possibly improve the video quality with Blu Ray? It just takes the digital stream off the disk and sends it to the TV. The TV is still receiving the same information as before.

Without knowing for sure what the upgrades are it is just guessing on my part but there are potential avenues for improving output of digitally transmitted video/audio streams via changed (fr the better) data...improving the optics such that read accuracy improves and there is significantly less errors in the data being sent. This assumes imperfect optics in the base machine.

EDit: on second thought really anything that improves accuracy of the data would help but usually the prime suspect would be the optics in a system like a BD player.
post #162 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

You may have missed some of my post, where I mentioned comparisons with the Arcam DV27a. I compared before the upgrade, and the Arcam was better. After the upgrade the 05 is better.

Now I'm really confused. The Arcam DV27a doesn't play Blu Ray discs. I only commented on the supposed Blu Ray improvements.

Quote:


Regarding video, it's a huge improvement. I use WALL-E on Blu Ray as a sample to compare. Before the upgrade, it looked pretty good. After the upgrade, it is clearer, with better blacks and better color saturation.
post #163 of 2187
Quote:


But I do not understand why you will not comment on what you saw when you opened up your modded unit.

Could you expand on what problem you encountered?

The first quote appears to be somewhat inconsistent with the two later quotes.

However, everything in your last post seems inconsistent with your earlier statement:

"The modifications do indeed improve the sound quality, but that is not enough to justify the cost, risk and inconvenience of having the mods done."

" it has the performence of a stock 3pc Esoteric P-03,D-03 and G-0RB worth $45,000". there's what you get for $999USD...if you can believe this well he's your man!

I used component outputs from both the 05 and the Arcam players.

Without divulging TUC intellectual property, this is how I understand TUC upgrades equipment. There are three main approaches, the first is not to change the core functional components - the decoders, DACs, clocks, etc, not to change the circuit schematics, which are largely "correct". The second is to upgrade the passives, which is familiar and straightforward. This is what TUC says:
Quote:


The parts we upgrade to State of the Art typically include but are not limited to new capacitors, new voltage regulators, new diodes, new op-amps, new transistors, and new resistors.

Other mod-men do this too, but I get the impression that TUC are just thorough and comprehensive. I believe its the third approach that distinguishes TUC. They ensure that every component is working to its best by providing the right environment for it to function - something like the demonstration/sample boards that SOC vendors make for qualification or evaluation. Here, the active device is not corrupted by the adverse environment created by internal and external sources.

A typical DVD player however, is a bad environment for many reasons, and this degrades the installed performance of even high quality silicon. TUC therefore use damping, grounding, shielding and filtering to minimise the effects of the adverse elements of the environment. All the DACs and op-amps that CE makers use can claim superb peformance figures when measured on a perfect test-bed, but that performance is never achieved in real-life, where there are many incompatible signals and technologies that are forced to share a box.

I recall Eric Kingdon of Sony telling me that getting the schematic right was just the start of getting good performance from electronics, and when you listen to what manufacturers say away from the press releases, there's a recurring theme. The real quality comes from tuning the design - selecting the passives, mounting parts and connectors, tightening cables, isolating, damping - I don't know - that sort of thing. It sounds like TUC use the existing schematic, and just finish the tuning job properly.

That's my take on it, and I think David Schulte has learned a lot about how to get the environment right for electronics. That's his know-how, and he really doesn't want to give it away. Having heard the results of this on the Onkyo, its clear to me that he knows what he's doing. I don't know exactly what he has done inside, and even though my background is electronic systems engineering, I don't need or even want to know - its the results that count.

Now, I apologise if I have contradicted myself. There's a simple mesage that I'm failing to convey. My view is that its not enough for a modification (any mod, not just TUC) to improve SQ by some small amount. Its got to be improved by more than you would get by spending the extra cash on better kit instead. And thats what I set out to find. The answer, by the way, is yes.

Next, on the basis of my positive experience with the Onkyo, I bought an upgraded Denon 3800 from TUC. I lent it to a supposed audiophile friend who already had a stock 3800. He told me he couldn't tell much difference. I could, even blind-tested, but I still told Schulte about this ina phone message. He wasn't happy, and immediately called me back and offered to send another 3800 over to me. Completely over-the-top support. It actually turned out that I simply needed to re-wire the 115V mains cable that I had made up for the connection from the step-down transformer. A bit of tuning with cables and fuses helped as well. Regarding what I hinted at earlier though, Schulte could not have done more to support me. He went way out of his way to ensure that I was happy with what I had. I've never come across customer support anything like that, and I can't comprehend what some people must have done to cross him.

A quick mention on video quality. I've always said that I've neither looked for nor seen any improvement to PQ. I can't see that any mods will improve digital video over HDMI, nomatter how I look at it. Component analogue video is another matter, and I can see that cleaning up the things that affect analogue audio may also improve analogue video, so Thezaks's qualification is very important. So I believe component is better, but HDMI is unchanged.

Finally - what was the deal with the Marantz 9600? There was an implicit suggestion that it didn't sound better after the modification - was that the case?

TTFN, Nick
post #164 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

Now I'm really confused. The Arcam DV27a doesn't play Blu Ray discs. I only commented on the supposed Blu Ray improvements.

Hi WilliamZX11,

Yes, you are absolutely right - you did refer to Blu Ray video quality improvements. I apologize for creating some confusion. Hopefully, this helps:

1) Without having a stock 05 on hand, it is true that I am comparing Blu Ray from memory. For me, I have good audio and video memory (it's actually a blessing and a curse), but you (and everyone else on this forum) don't know me, so I understand why you would claim it as imaginary video improvements. Until I get a stock 05 to compare with, I'm sure I won't be able to convince some folks, and I understand that.

2) Like I mentioned, I'm using component, because my TV does not have a DVI or HDMI input. This addresses your digital stream comment.

3) I brought up the Arcam with regards to your comment of imaginary video improvements. Looking back, perhaps you may have meant that comment for Blu Ray, but I wanted to acknowledge the improvements I had seen and could verify. These improvements were not from memory.

Again, my apologies, and I hope this helps.

Dave
post #165 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

I don't know exactly what he has done inside, and even though my background is electronic systems engineering, I don't need or even want to know - its the results that count.
TTFN, Nick

Hi Nick,

I very much agree with this comment. I don't care what's on the inside - it's the performance that counts for me. It's the same when I buy a new piece of equipment - I never care about looking inside, I care about how it performs.

I'm still curious about your comment:

"The modifications do indeed improve the sound quality, but that is not enough to justify the cost, risk and inconvenience of having the mods done."

Based upon all of your other comments, I still do not understand why you would say the above. Can you explain?

Thanks,

Dave
post #166 of 2187
I'll try to.

I mean that the mod isn't justified simply because there is some perceptible improvement - its not enough merely to be able to hear a difference.

I didn't mean that the TUC mods weren't enough to justify themselves, only that a hypothetically very small but perceptible improvement wouldn't be worthwhile.

There needs to be a big improvement, and since there is one, I believe it more than justifies the cost of the mod.

I've dug a right hole for myself, here, haven't I?

Nick
post #167 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

For me, I have good audio and video memory (it's actually a blessing and a curse), but you (and everyone else on this forum) don't know me, so I understand why you would claim it as imaginary video improvements.

Has your audible memory been tested?
post #168 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

I'll try to.

I mean that the mod isn't justified simply because there is some perceptible improvement - its not enough merely to be able to hear a difference.

I didn't mean that the TUC mods weren't enough to justify themselves, only that a hypothetically very small but perceptible improvement wouldn't be worthwhile.

There needs to be a big improvement, and since there is one, I believe it more than justifies the cost of the mod.

I've dug a right hole for myself, here, haven't I?

Nick

Thanks so much Nick! Now it all makes sense with everything else that you've written.

Dave
post #169 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

Has your audible memory been tested?

I understand your question. My audible memory is convincing enough for me, but in posting to this thread, I agree that I need to provide better feedback. That's why I'm going to be doing my comparison against other players to test the 2 channel audio. I did the comparison before the upgrade, and the 05 did not compare. Even though I perceive that the 05 has improved, the real test will be the A/B with other players.

Thanks K Shep,

Dave
post #170 of 2187
I received The Upgrade Company Oppo 83 and it is by far the best digital player I have heard to date. This is not the Oppo 83 (special edition either).
I had the stock Oppo 83 in my system for a month before sending it to them.
I don't know how they could take this stock unit to this level but they did. If I were them I would have the upgraded player professionally reviewed. The player now has the clarity and musical immediacy of vinyl. There is so much grain and hardness in the stock player to where rbcd is unlistenable at higher volumes. Lower volumes become fatiguing in a short period as well. Now the digital glare and hardness is completely gone and the top end sparkles with superb clarity. The bottom is no longer lathargic and loose and bass pitch definition is extremely musical and tight. Midrange just sings with authority and weight and the purity of vocals will make you melt in you listening seat. This is not fair to the high end world at all!
post #171 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post

I had the stock Oppo 83 in my system for a month before sending it to them.

Did you have a stock unit to A/B it with when you got it back, or are you relying upon your recollection of it's sound before it left?
post #172 of 2187
"The Upgrade Company." Really? P.T. Barnum was a genius.

Ron
post #173 of 2187
[quote=rno63;17742189]

Quote:


I don't know how they could take this stock unit to this level but they did. If I were them I would have the upgraded player professionally reviewed.

It would be a good move for TUC to do just that. To have their modded BDP-83 reviewed by someone like Kal or another highly respected reviewer would validate their mods and performance of TUC's modded components. But I feel TUC will not do this and come up with some type of reason not to such as "we are too busy" or "TUC does not feel the need to validate our mods".

If they do decide to pass on any form of professional reviews it says loud and clear that TUC is concerned that their mods are not the real deal. TUC can have all types of customer testimonials on their site and from members here but for TUC to silence all the critics they need to have some reviews and testing done by professional unbiased individuals.

Quote:


The player now has the clarity and musical immediacy of vinyl. There is so much grain and hardness in the stock player to where rbcd is unlistenable at higher volumes. Lower volumes become fatiguing in a short period as well. Now the digital glare and hardness is completely gone and the top end sparkles with superb clarity. The bottom is no longer lathargic and loose and bass pitch definition is extremely musical and tight. Midrange just sings with authority and weight and the purity of vocals will make you melt in you listening seat. This is not fair to the high end world at all!

What was done to your BDP-83 to transcend it to a world class player? Did you open the cover to see what was done? Any chance of some pictures of the inside of your modded player?

I would like to be a believer of the many claims yours included of TUC's modded components. But till it is disclosed what is done, some internal pictures of modded units and some professional reviews I am a non believer of the many claims of TUC products. Maybe yourself or another member here would be willing to do a A-B demo GTG or send their player to someone like Kal for an evaluation if TUC declines. Or would that cause issues between yourself and others with TUC?

Bill
post #174 of 2187
[quote=Bill Mac;17743579]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post




It would be a good move for TUC to do just that. To have their modded BDP-83 reviewed by someone like Kal or another highly respected reviewer would validate their mods and performance of TUC's modded components. But I feel TUC will not do this and come up with some type of reason not to such as "we are too busy" or "TUC does not feel the need to validate our mods".

If they do decide to pass on any form of professional reviews it says loud and clear that TUC is concerned that their mods are not the real deal. TUC can have all types of customer testimonials on their site and from members here but for TUC to silence all the critics they need to have some reviews and testing done by professional unbiased individuals.



What was done to your BDP-83 to transcend it to a world class player? Did you open the cover to see what was done? Any chance of some pictures of the inside of your modded player?

I would like to be a believer of the many claims yours included of TUC's modded components. But till it is disclosed what is done, some internal pictures of modded units and some professional reviews I am a non believer of the many claims of TUC products. Maybe yourself or another member here would be willing to do a A-B demo GTG or send their player to someone like Kal for an evaluation if TUC declines. Or would that cause issues between yourself and others with TUC?

Bill

N.B.: I have not volunteered for this job.
post #175 of 2187
[quote=Kal Rubinson;17743857]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

N.B.: I have not volunteered for this job.

Kal,

I am not volunteering you for this just referencing you in the fact that you are a respected member here and in the audio world. I will refrain from future suggestions. I would have to think you would at least be curious to know if these claims of the TUC modded BDP-83 are real or not.

Bill
post #176 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

It would be a good move on TUC to do just that. To have the modded BDP-83 reviewed by someone like Kal or another highly respected reviewer would validate the mods and performance of TUC's modded components. But I feel TUC will not do this and come up with some type of reason not to such as "we are to busy" or "TUC does not feel the need to validate our mods".

If they do decide to pass on any form of professional reviews it says loud and clear that TUC is concerned that their mods are not the real deal. TUC can have all types of customer testimonials on their site and from members here but for TUC to silence all the critics they need to have some reviews and testing done by professional unbiased individuals.

Earlier this year Naturephoto did get in touch with Kal to arrange for him to listen to the upgraded Onkyo. Kal declined at the time, I think because no information on the mods performed could be made available, though I could be mistaken.

I have also lent my Onkyo to two friends in local AV-phile circles - for two weeks on both occassions. They were both the sort of people who would be interested in a very-good sounding processor, but neither even got them out fo the box. This was very frustrating, as you can imagine.

TUC also arranged for a stock Denon and Onkyo to be sent to Naturephoto, who offered to demonstrate them to anyone who wanted to hear. But no-one turned up.

Granted, doing an audio processor comparison or shoot-out isn't something you can undertake lightly. I did do it, and though enjoyable, it was really hard work, and I rarely miss an opportunity to moan about it. There are lots of ways to stop it working, and many ways to get an unfair comparison, so wrote them down for posterity:

1. Listening mode
2. Digital input
3. Audio select
4. Pure audio
5. Monitor out
6. Input assign
7. Audio TV output
8. TV control enable
9. HDMI control
10. Speaker settings
11. Muting
12. Headphones
13. Zone 2/3 output
14. Record out
15. Bi-amp output
16. Power amp
17. Interconnects
18. LFE output level
19. Auto DRC
20. Analogue pass through
21. Display disable
22. Etc

For example, I initially thought the Arcam had a better analogue pass-through than the Lexicon, but that was only because I hadn't gone deep enough into the Lexicons complex settings to do it right. Once connected through, the Lexicon was shown as being slightly better.

Or: using a two-wire power lead on the Onkyo drops it below the Proceed

Or: conversely using a two-wire power lead on the Denon makes it better - but only when the processor has a three-wire lead.

So, everybody wants to know what processors actually sound like, and which one is worth getting, but getting those answers is difficult. Its valuable information, and most people take it for granted. So when I read gushing reviews about pretty much every new processor that comes out, its clear that the reviewers usually haven't listened to them properly, and based on recent depressing experience it seems like nobody wants to make much effort to find out for themselves.

Nick
post #177 of 2187
[quote=Bill Mac;17743579]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post




It would be a good move for TUC to do just that. To have their modded BDP-83 reviewed by someone like Kal or another highly respected reviewer would validate their mods and performance of TUC's modded components. But I feel TUC will not do this and come up with some type of reason not to such as "we are too busy" or "TUC does not feel the need to validate our mods".

If they do decide to pass on any form of professional reviews it says loud and clear that TUC is concerned that their mods are not the real deal. TUC can have all types of customer testimonials on their site and from members here but for TUC to silence all the critics they need to have some reviews and testing done by professional unbiased individuals.



What was done to your BDP-83 to transcend it to a world class player? Did you open the cover to see what was done? Any chance of some pictures of the inside of your modded player?

I would like to be a believer of the many claims yours included of TUC's modded components. But till it is disclosed what is done, some internal pictures of modded units and some professional reviews I am a non believer of the many claims of TUC products. Maybe yourself or another member here would be willing to do a A-B demo GTG or send their player to someone like Kal for an evaluation if TUC declines. Or would that cause issues between yourself and others with TUC?

Bill

Max Shepherd of Absolute Sound has reviewed some product as well as Ed Momkus of Dagogo. My player is not leaving this shelf until I get an Oppo 83 special edition modded. I have a modded Denon 5910ci on the shelf as well but it does not quite live up to the Oppo. The modded Denon killed the stock Oppo. I have also had the EMM Labs CDSA SE, APL modded Esoteric DV-50, Underwood Ultimate Marantz SA11, Arcam CD92, Arcam CD33t, Sony SCD-1, Marantz SA-1. You really need to hear a modded Oppo and I would suggest jumping to the special edition model and have someone that knows this player do a mod for you. The dacs in the special edition have to bring up another notch but I am not sure how much. A modded special edition and a modded standard Oppo may need to be a/b'd. The standard stock version to modded is so far apart that a/b-ing is a waste of time. I think I still have pictures of these other units sitting on my shelf. I will check it out. I also bought an older JVC reciever from the upgrade company but did not hear it in its stock form. It does sound very nice and it may be better than the Ming DA MC2A3 with two Linn Klouts bi-amped. Way too hard to a/b them so I just have to rely on what I like or don't like. I figured the JVC would have peaky highis and congestive mids but it doesn't. I can run the JVC in a bi-amp mode which is very nice too. I am now looking into the Onkyo 905 or 906 and should be able to listen to one of these in its stock form before having it modded as well.
I really think a reviewer should take a trip over to the upgrade company and actually meet with Schulte to do some comparing for a couple of days. I have seen some pretty impressive pictures of the gear that has been on there shelf for comparisons. I don't know if they still have any of this ultra high end gear there however. A new EMM with the German transport against the upgraded standard Oppo 83 would be one hell of a test. The older EMM CDSA SE would not stand a chance against the modded Oppo. It didn't against the modded Denon 5910ci and the Oppo is now better than the Denon, at least to me anyways.
To answer your question about what is under the hood, I didn't look and I don't really care what is there. I just wanted better sound and got way more than I expected. The stock player like I said is good for $499 but is very peaky, grainy and congested. As a stock unit it may compare to a stock Denon 3930 or something in this range.
I was also very skeptical about modding but that was some time ago. I just had always figured a slight change or different flavor but that has not been the case here.
post #178 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rock_bottom View Post

Here's another thread on the subject from Audio Asylum. You'll see a poster from this thread involved. If you open up that person's Audio Asylum post and click on his moniker, it gives you the option (in "classic view") to see all Audio Asylum posts from that person. You'll find they consist of two posts, both plugging The Upgrade Company.

I really should have done that earlier, rock_bottom. I read all the posts, one by one, and noticed the IP's associated with each poster. Now, is it coincidence that the UGC posted using two IP addresses (both AOL proxies) 64.12.116.16 205.188.116.16

and later a poster by the name of Quint said nice things and his IP address was 205.188.116.16? Don't know. You decide.
post #179 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

and later a poster by the name of Quint said nice things and his IP address was 205.188.116.16? Don't know. You decide.

There's something funky with AOL IP addresses and web forums. You can do a search of postings by IP address at AA by entering the IP address with the "dots" removed in the "text to find" field of the search form. To do the search in all forums, select "All Forums" in the "from forum" combo box. When you do this with an AOL IP address, you get a huge number of hits - basically all the AOL posters on AA. So there's a one-to-many relationship of IP addresses to posters with AOL.

I'm quite sure Quint is on the level, having seen his posts for some time. Not so the poster who appears in this thread and the AA thread though.
post #180 of 2187
You could be right, Andy. I'm sure most of the people who say they're satisfied with TUC are legit. Yet posts like these and elsewhere, where posters appear out of the blue, seem right peculiar and don't speak well towards TUC.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: 2 Channel Audio
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › 2 Channel Audio › "the upgrade company" <component mods>