"the upgrade company" <component mods> - Page 70  

Originally Posted by thezaks

Why would I want to read about something that I don't care about? If you have a point, make it. Otherwise, skip it.

Originally Posted by thezaks

You guys speak of snake oil, but you've actually created somewhat of a snake pit. In that sense, I would not blame Dave if he didn't step in.

Actually, I have. I expected my Pioneer to be better than the Arcam. I determined that it wasn't. That's just one of many examples of how I determined/confirmed that placebo does not apply for me.

Actually, I don't need to communicate more precisely. I'm not trying to convey my personal perception as fact for you or anyone else, it's only fact for me.

Originally Posted by thezaks

Thanks for confirming your lack of understanding of my points.

Dave

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Well, you get points for consistency and tenacity.

Originally Posted by geekhd

It's not whether you care for it or not, it's what you need to do when making a judgment on someone or some company. vvv





No you have not. That's not the process for confirming such thing. It is becoming obvious that you are not informed in scientific methods of comparing. More reason for you to read up on DBT.


But you have done so inadvertently and I am trying to get you to understand that.

Originally Posted by Gizmologist

It seems that all we can do is shake our heads in disbelief. Logic, facts, physics, measurements, pictures, and probably a hundred+ years of combined experience between us and we still can't get through to these folks.

So, can we get you a refill on that koolaid? Would you like dry ice with that? We heard it lasts longer and is just as safe as the water based ice.

Originally Posted by thezaks

Hi Kal,

My apology - I suspect that you may have a point, and in all honesty, I'm not sure what it is. If we can get away from generalities and discuss something specific, I might be able to provide a better response.

Thanks,
Dave

Originally Posted by thezaks

* I agree, I may not be informed in scientific methods of comparing. I'm only referring to placebo as it has been mentioned by the experts in this thread. The gist of what's been said is that if I was told that something was better, then in my mind I will be convinced that it's better. I was trying to show, in my example, that this did not apply to me.

* Regarding DBT, what have I missed, other than what I have stated?

* How have I tried to present my experience as fact for you inadvertently? Please explain.

Originally Posted by thezaks

While it's true that I didn't use any test equipment (so I cannot present anything to you as fact), it's also true that I used my Arcam DV27A as my measuring stick.

Originally Posted by thezaks

From my perspective, yes, I received a truly improved product from TUC.

Originally Posted by thezaks

I admit, I've had a great experience with Dave - he's answered all of my questions, he's been extremely generous with his concerns and his time, and I feel like I've received an improved product.



You guys speak of snake oil, but you've actually created somewhat of a snake pit. In that sense, I would not blame Dave if he didn't step in.

Originally Posted by thezaks

Hi BWG707,

I'm not intending to dance, so continue to let me know if there's more I need to address.

* I do not mess with tone levels - they are always set to zero.
* I'm not sure if you caught what I mentioned in my previous post. When I refer to looks or what I see, I'm talking about video quality, not the external appearance of the component. If you are referring to video quality in your post, then I apologize.
* Measurements and tests - it's not that it's hard for me to admit. It's just that I don't evaluate equipment based upon measurements and compression tests. I evaluate on the subjective performance. That means that the wiring inside could be a mess and the blue goop could look sloppy, but all of that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is how audio sounds or video looks.
* Now, with regards to the longevity of the product, I suppose time will tell. Your research might demand certain tests and build quality, in order to feel more assured about the longevity. My research has to do with what the owners of these products are saying or not saying. Aside from the two folks who have been fairly vocal in this forum about their negative experience, I have not seen much of anything about issues with longevity of TUC upgraded products.
* I understand your option 3, but let me ask you this: if you are looking at two products and product A sounds and/or looks better than product B, but product B measures/tests better than product A, which one will you choose? For you, the measurements/tests is the investigation you require beyond sound/looks. For me, I research what customers say - good and bad.

Dave

thezaks Hi shake and bake,

I disagree, shopping for this type of equipment "should" be based upon personal preferences. Your using your sense of sight and sound to use and enjoy the equipment, following the purchase, so why not use it to evaluate the purchase?

I do think that if someone has trouble with their imagination or the placebo effect, then they should do DBT (or at least SBT). I've done SBT with my wife on many occasions.

Dave

Originally Posted by shake and bake

I also can't help but think you are having fun messing with people.

Originally Posted by CruelInventions

Nah, I really don't think so. His sincere cheerful obstinacy is equal parts fascinating, depressing and perplexing to me, but I don't believe (customer) Dave is engaging in any sort of willfully snarky behavior. I can understand how someone else might be a bit suspicious though.

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Well, here's a quote that I stole: According to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition, perception is "physical sensation interpreted in the light of experience."
In other words, you cannot perceive the physical sensations directly but only through the filter of your experience and mental state. This process is unconscious and undefeatable despite conscious effort and/or denial. So, to trumpet that you are not influenced by imagination or placebo is to profess the impossible.

I have no problem with you or anyone else saying that you make distinctions based on subjective personal experience without any reference or controls and that these choices personal are significant and relevant to you. I do have a problem when someone does such and offers it a evidence of a real and/or objective distinction.

Originally Posted by mclsound

dave,just admit it...you are happy with YOUR choice.YOUR experience was good.
But TUC did not imply to you or anyone that they were authorized?
But your sound is a happy sound.And you are a HAPPY person.
But TUC did not threaten to sue you or anyone because he got ......ANGRY.
But YOUR full of flowers happy,even though,golly gosh,your pioneer lost to the darn Arcam.
You have a very happy handfull of olives and placeboooo when you get your next upgrade from your honest,curtious emotional experience.
I personally am the gladest person for you that your imagination is finely tuned in at 82.5db.

Originally Posted by BWG707

I was referring to DS changing the tone levels to change the sound of the modded units, I believe you understood this to begin with and your just yanking my chain. And can you explain why in every small claims court case I've ever listened to concerning buying used cars the judge always states that everyone should have their mechanic check the car out? Mechanics check the cars using measurements and data. Judges always say thay's it's the fool who only looks, listens , and drives to make their decision. And to answer your last question about product A and B, I would pass on both and continue researching. But if I saw tin foil and blue goop smeared all over the interior I would definitely be asking questions and it would put me on alert. In the end I would more than likely pass on the smeared up unit just because of the unprofessional, shotty workmanship. If someone can not take more pride in their work than that I would rather not buy from them, and I don't think I'm in the minority about this.

Originally Posted by shake and bake

We are not even talking about the same thing. You must be completely misunderstanding what I am (and many, many others) trying to get at.



Please just watch some of the video I linked. It certainly won't hurt you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ


Other than that, I can only come to the conclusion that you are answering the question you wish you were asked, not the ones that were actually asked. I also can't help but think you are having fun messing with people. If not you are missing the point big time.

Originally Posted by ronesp

Dave,

Changing topics here momentarily, to one who doesn't think measurements are important, why did you have your display calibrated? I'm sure that when you were shopping you compared several different brands and then bought the one you liked. You probably said to yourself "well this one has the best picture so I'll buy it". But then you had it calibrated. Why not just play with the settings to get the picture more to your liking? The calibration involved taking measurements and having adjustments made to it to get it as close to the standard as possible. So why feel differently about your audio gear? That's all we (make that I) want to see with DS's measurements. I want to see what changed, what improved, what measured worse or does everything measure the same to provide the apparent increase in performance.

Not sure if I'm making my point. It's been a long day running around with a 2 year old.

Originally Posted by Johnla

Was doing the blue flashes, and sometimes shutdowns? If so, sounds like someone may have had the chronic Pioneer x10 RPTV series, power supply board solder failure.

Originally Posted by CruelInventions

His sincere cheerful obstinacy is equal parts fascinating, depressing and perplexing to me,....

Originally Posted by thezaks

Hi Kal,

I have a different interpretation. I noticed you added "...and mental state", which was not part of the definition. Here's the definition I found for perception (from www.dictionary.com): "the act or faculty of comprehending by means of the senses or of the mind".

And, here's the definition for imagination: "the faculty of imagining, or of forming mental images or concepts of what is not actually present to the senses".

This is why I say that a person can acknowledge what is present to the senses, or, they can form something in their mind that is not actually present to the senses. In the area of audio/video, I acknowledge what is present to my sense of sight and hearing. I perceive by comprehending by means of the senses.

So, although we are all subject to imagination, we don't always have to imagine.

Dave

Originally Posted by thezaks

Hi Johnla - you're exactly right. We had the blue flashes.

Originally Posted by Johnla

You were lucky that Pioneer agreed to cover 1/2 the cost. For some people they refused and would not acknowledge that it was a known problem, yet for others like you they did.

But, I hate to tell you this, if the repair tech only replaced the power supply board with one of Pioneers exchange replacement boards. You could still likely have it happen again in the future, even with the replacement board. Pioneer never really fixed the cold solder joint problem, not even with their replacement boards. The only sure fix, is to actually resolder about 99% of the solder joints that are on the board you have.


This issue with the x10 and some early x20 series power supply boards is a well known problem, it's very widespread, and it's also well documented.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=402397

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Well, you can find a lot of quotes but I selected the one I posted because it is more correct and more critical than most and certainly more than the ones you posted. I selected it based, not on its source, but on my knowledge and understanding of the operation of the nervous system. Despite my signature here, by day, I am a professor of physiology and neuroscience.

Originally Posted by thezaks

Your post kind of sounds like - my definition is better than yours, and it is better, because I'm more qualified. However, you put it very nicely, and I very much appreciate that.