"the upgrade company" <component mods> - Page 13  

Wow - this moron (Dave S.) actually said this!? David, you should be ashamed of yourself. Of course, given a man with all your 'credentials', I can certainly understand why you spent all that money in getting an education in the mental health field would choose a field in electronic modification. From the work I've seen you do, you obviously have more talent in modding electronics then you do you in your first chosen profession, and that's not a compliment.

We have to be somewhat careful, of course, in that this is second hand information from the forum admin vs. Mr. S speaking to us directly. I will opine, however, that what is described is not inconsistent with the sort of behavior Mr. S actually exhibited in the now-sequestered thread.

I must admitt that rno63's posts are about the most immature postings that I have ever read. They reek of a bitter, offensive, and self centered individual. I cannot help but to notice the same characteristics in Mr. S's posts. They could very well be the same person or maybe just a brain washed or weak -willed individual. I see no credibility in his statements, his claims are ridiculous and his misplaced enthusiasum obivious, he's either the owner (of The Upgrade Co.) or is working with the owner. One last question, what is a $80,000 player?

Probably referring to the dCS Scarlatti stack.

I was just over at the TUC site and found this interesting ditty.

The Upgrade Company continues to constantly improve upon today's so called "State of the Art". For every 6 month period over the past 2 years our upgrades have improved by about 50% over the previous 6 month period. This says that our upgrades are more then twice as good in now in December 2009 over December 2007. For every $1,000 invested into our upgrades, we guarantee that you will receive a minimum of $10,000 dollars back in performance in terms of retail dollars. For every $1,500 invested you will receive a minimum of $20,000 in performance back in terms of retail dollars. We also guarantee that any one of our Signature Edition upgraded players will best any "modified" player from anywhere in the world, and do so with the utmost in reliability and serviceablity.

All I can say is Wow and let me get my CC out.

Here is another gem.

The Upgrade Company is just starting to scratch the surface on educating the public about this. We could expose manufacturers dirty tactics with photographs which show the 10 cent parts and a total lack of any wire shielding. This is especially wrong in models that retail for $5,000, $10,000 and up.

Yet another one.

For year 2008 The Upgrade Company chose not to lug an entire demo system 3/4's of the way across the United States of America to put on a show for a bunch of window shoppers....we're keeping very busy.

Bill

Shoot, Bill, why waste time dragging systems cross country when you can stay home and get rich?


http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/dig...14/147622.html

Wow, stunning claims indeed! In order to get away with that, a company would have to have:

a) some kind of objectively verifiable evidence that suport those claims (like list of parts, measured performance etc.)

and/or

b) customers that don't give a rats ass about that kind of evidence (iow people who prefer to drink the audiophile kool aid)

So far we have only seen b). Maybe we'll see a) some time in the future, but I don't think I'll be holding my breath.



This is just too ironic comming from a company that refuses to reveal anything about the stuff they put in the units they "uppgrade".

Since this company is making such a big fuss about "exposing" the "dirty tactics" of big manufacturers, one would think that they would make an effort to be transparent about how those units are "upgraded", if only to show that they are more honest and caring about their customers than the "big guys", but no...

RUR, pretty addicting thread! It is hard to get of this merry-go-round. We both have said we were leaving this thread but here we are. That being said, there is another thread started on another forum regarding a review of TUC's Oppo 83. Great review too. This guys is comparing the Oppo to Zanden. It is on the audiogon site.

Right, another review comparing the TUC Oppo to a DAC and other players, which tells us nothing about the upgrade itself.

Maybe it would be more credible if he mentioned burn-in a couple dozen more times.

What I'd like to know is what exactly does 600 hours of burn in do to the sound? There's another myth I'd love to debunk. Never mind difference in amps (how they sound) or difference in upgraded vs non-upgraded component. I've done this with speakers and I did a blind test on it and I could not tell the difference - the speakers sounded EXACTLY the same.

Maybe my hearing isn't acute enough - but for crissakes, if your listening to a player or amp or speaker or whatever for 600 hours and go on a forum and state it sounds much better than it did originally when it's been proven that our audio memory is so short then even a 1 minute lapse between hearing something causes the 'test' to be rendered 'useless' really boggles my freaking mind. There is so much contradiction and snake oil out there it makes my head spin.

600 hours for burn in - I'd really like to hear a TUC upgraded Oppo with 600 hours on it vs a freshly minted upgraded Oppo vs. a Stock Oppo, blind all within 10 seconds.

600 hours for what exactly, just what exactly happens that causes the sound to change - and I got more, tell me what the difference is between 600 hours and 599 hours, or 598 hours, or 550 hours, or 500 hours, or whatever.

600 hours - wanna come join me in a Saskatchewan Seal hunt on the ice flows of the Saskatchewan sea? 600 hours

This has been an interesting day - I've spent much of it speed reading this thread - among other things I've had to get done. Riveting stuff for sure - and a soap opera to boot.

I kept coming back to this comparison of a 'low-fi' vs a 'hi-fi' setup as I read this. Comparing such items must be embarrasing to those who subscribe to the idea/myth that more $$s = better sound - and especially as it pertains to mods. And to a point they are right. Seems like that point is in the neighborhood of $700 - according to that comparison test anyway.

I think that article says it all.

So you are saying you started an other thread with an other nick name on an other forum?

Especially when it appears to be one's raison d'être, no?

KH,

Excellent link! I read that awhile ago and it is still interesting to see the outcome of that DBT. TUC mentions DBTs being done but no results or any hard facts as to how (or if) they were done. It is so obvious that TUC is all smoke and mirrors. But by looking on the TUC site business is booming, which is another statement that is unproven.

Bill

The Zanden is a royal POS.

Fair point; difficult to argue with that, but there are reasons to explain ...

When I first posted in this thread I was reluctant to participate because of the likely scepticism and hostility, and I expect that would apply to many of Schulte's other customers. I think its somewhat inevitable because of his unusual business model, and I can understand part of that - I nearly stayed away myself.

I haven't had much time to finish my story due to pressure of work. That's over, but it looks like I might be too late to overcome the momentum of this thread. I think that would be a shame though, as the story is worth finishing, and I'll give it another go. It seems like credibility is important, and I might be able to do something about that.

My ambition is to have an AV system that plays music like a stereo, but that seems a tall order, and I've been trying to figure the best way to achieve it for a year. I started in this thread by comparing lots of players and processors.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/audio...ml#post8654537

I went to great lengths to understand what players and processors could do in a system, and found good ingredients but poor implementation with the Onkyo processor. I heard good things about what Schulte could do with the Onkyo, but needed more confidence than just a bunch of extravagant claims and testimonials on the TUC web-site. That didn't count for anything to me, so I tried to validate the testimonials by contacting TUC customers directly. Their recommendations were unsurprisingly a bit more qualified than what you see on the website, but they did broadly back-up the claims.

With a lot of apprehension I took the plunge and bought an upgraded Onkyo. To check out the claims, I bought and borrowed all the best processors I could get my hands on, and stacked them up against the upgraded Onkyo. I don't want to repeat everything I wrote, as I described this here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/audio...kyo-sc885.html

Hopefully you can spare the time to read some of the threads that I listed, and appreciate that I take this subject more seriously than is good for me. Its been quite an obsession, and in hindsight I wish I could have simply known the answer and gone straight to the end result. It would have saved a great deal of time, effort and money, but its done now, and I think other people might like to benefit from what I've done this year. It has been self-serving, but I think a lot of people want the same information about what works and what doesn't. (I've been auditioning about a half-dozen power amps as well, but that must wait for another thread.)

Therefore I have a lot of relevant experience of comparing high quality processors, and how the TUC upgrades fit in with the market. (I have much less experience of assessing the improvement to disc players, so I leave that to others). To my mind, the upgrades take the Onkyo 885 from the bottom of the heap to the very top, which is a remarkable achievement considering the cost of the upgrade. I had a good look at the inside of the modded unit, and though I won't comment on what I saw, I dont' suppose anyone here would be too surprised if I posted pictures of it here.

The most important point though, is that whatever they are, the upgrades actually work. Although much of my review kit this year has been sent to its original or new owners, I still have an Arcam AV9 sat next to my Onkyo 885 SE, and I can demonstrate them together to anyone who would like to hear. Not much use to Americans I know, but although the Arcam is near the top of the pile in some ways, the Onkyo beats it at everything. I've done my utmost with a variety of revealling systems (which have shown up the shortcomings of some well-regarded power amps) to find fault with the Onkyo, and I really can't.

On the basis of my experience with the Onkyo, I bought an upgraded Denon 3800 from TUC. I've since sold that (could have sold it three times over) and since had a Pioneer BDP-09 upgraded. Based on my experience I have a lot of subjective and qualitative comments to make about TUC, but this post is long enough already.

Believe me its not easy, so that is appreciated.

regards, Nick

1. Just wondering how you thought the 3800 sounded prior to being "Upgraded"?

Not uncommon, I recently replaced my front speaker wire which I bought a roll of 100ft for $15, with a pair of really nice preterminated 15 ft locking to bi locking cable that cost me $125....I'd like to say that they've made a world of difference, but ummmmmm they look really nice !!!!!

So you're right, it's not easy..but I can do it. Then again if I were getting good deals from said cable maker I just might rant all day as to the night & day difference it made

I thought it was very nice, actually.

In many systems, the 3800 may not be the bottle-neck on quality. Its pretty transparent, refined, lush and big-sounding. Its not neutral; its rather laid-back, and not the most dynamic, but it is very listenable. I think you would achieve just as good results from a 3800 plus a good legacy processor with 5.1 analogue pass-throughs, as you would with a bitstreaming player plus an expensive HD processor. At the price they are selling for at the moment, it would be daft not to.

The upgrade adds incisiveness, transparency and more neutrality to the sound, though its still recognisably a 3800. A good stock player, though, doesn't necessarily make the best modded player.....

Nick

The reason I asked is because you stated the following;

"I bought an upgraded Denon 3800 from TUC"

So I was wondering if you even had an idea as to what it sounded like prior, now your giving me a pre-mod full review like you owned it prior the modification.

I had already spent two months with a friends' stock 3800, and I described my experience of it here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/audio...ml#post8654537

It was largely my positive experience with the stock unit (plus the Onkyo upgrade) that convinced me to get an upgraded 3800. I was subsequently able to do a blind comparison between the stock and upgraded units, and could reliably and confidently tell the difference between them (level-matched and unsighted).

Nick

I have no problem with people being skeptical of TUC's work........ it's the manner in which it is done that may dissuade others who have actually owned a modded product from TUC and as a result of the withering condescension and name calling refuse to come forward and relay their thoughts, good or bad. The back benchers who delight in speculation and mindless critiques without having a modded product in their possession to examine technically or listen to harm the process, not help. As I said before, I think the forum participants are more than capable of drawing their own conclusions from first person testimonials, and the more that come forward (good and bad), the more light that gets shed on this subject.

I see,
I also noticed that when you went to sell the 3800 to "cableman", the deal fell through last minute due to an issue with a verifiable difference in PQ when comparing a Modded vs non-modded 3800. Just wondering how that came to light, did you tell him or did he get the 3800 to give it a test run?

I find it odd that the one thing anybody can do or verify (without a bunch of equipment and knowledge), which is look at PQ, is the one thing that doesn't work on TUC upgrades???

I can personally vouche for TUCs mods




me too...

Another review comparing a TUC upgraded piece to other brands. Again, this tells us nothing about the upgrade. Why not compare the TUC 885 to a stock 885? Blind if you want any credibility.

Is Schulte capable of repairing anything?

Probably not his reputation or public image, both of which look pretty much unserviceable.

No, this is just more of the usual BS with no real proof of anything. Yeah you have all these praises for what he did with the Onkyo 885, but they are worthless as far as any information at all, as far as if he actually made it any better or not. And in fact! In a prior post you said this........

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=144




You flat out admitted that you NEVER even compared it to a stock un-modified Onkyo 855. And what is even WORSE! You even try to imply that there would be no purpose in even doing so.


With that, I see absolutely no credibility at all in your opinions/reviews, with all the praising and gushing about the quality of his mod work.

Answer is NO. He use the company below to do his dirty laundry which he recommended but I questioned and refused.

Blackies Radio and TV
6147 28th Street S.E.
Grand Rapids, MI 49546
(616) 949-5120

E-mail exchanged between myself and TUC

Hi David,

Do you know blackies radio on a personal level because I have read some online feedbacks on them only repairing TV's and not with great results nor customer service. what is the chance they can repair my player?.

Reply from Dave @ TUC: They have repaired everything we have ever sent them just fine with GREAT parts.

Well said. I'm not exactly a great wordsmith or typist, but that's the sort of thing I'd like to say.

Good questions. I've always said that I didn't think TUC modifications made any difference to video quality, knowing full well that Schulte and various customers have claimed the contrary. I think Dave "thezacks" has now clarified this one here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post17731908

The PQ improvement applies to analogue component output, not HDMI. I don't see how any modifications could improve on what the 3800 outputs over HDMI - its as good as it gets (sharing that honor with the BDP-09) to my mind. Cableman seemed to expect the upgrade to improve the HDMI output. I told him that I had neither seen nor expected to see any improvement in HDMI video quality, and that I thought the improvements came only from analogue and digital audio outputs. Cableman thanked me for my honesty and we agreed not to trade.

I've spent far too much time for own health and wealth comparing players and processors this year. It takes a lot of time, effort and money, and I've run out. I've proved the performance of the upgraded Onkyo to my satisfaction and more, and I've never felt the need to prove it to anyone else. Having said that, I have some close AV-phile friends with stock Lexicon, Onkyo and Arcam processors, and lent then my Onkyo to compare. They never even it got it out of the box, which was disappointing. I found processor reviewing difficult and time-consuming, and I can understand other people's reluctance to dive in there. However, I HAVE done that, and the results are night-and-day obvious.

No, I CLAIM never to have compared stock and modded together, but the difference is so great as for that to be trivial. I directly A/B'd the stock Onkyo and Lexicon MC12, and found the Onkyo fine with HD audio, but poor with stereo / analogue / SD audio sources. The difference was large, even when the Lexicon was digitising the analogue inputs, and the Onkyo on analogue pass-through. With the upgraded Onkyo, HD audio was better than before, but with direct, level-matched A/B comnparion, the Onkyo was now better than the Lexicon with ALL sources and formats, even when the Lex was on analogue pass-through. This time I thought the difference was small - not like the difference between the stock Onkyo and Lex. Considering the price and quality of the Lex though, I thought this was a good result. I'll come back to the stock/modified comparison in another post.

No, its not BS.

And I never gush.

Nick