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"the upgrade company" <component mods> - Page 17  

post #481 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Unless you are referring to the philanderer, you probably mean John Edward. However, both are worthy candidates of South Park's "Biggest Douche in the Universe" award.

Yes, you are right, my bad. What that one s can do or not.
post #482 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Nick, you're a sincere guy. The thing is, is Schulte? Me, I'm a prick. I put my wallet in the front pocket and put a rubber band around it. When someone says something, like Schulte saying the FR is flatter and more extended, and the overall noise floor is 8 dB lower, I can't help but wonder if that bump in the crowd was accidental or intentional, so I stick my hand in the pocket.

If he said it, then he measured it with something. So, me, I'd like to see the measurements. Show me the graphs. Tell me about the equipment and better yet, how's about a pic of him standing next to the equipment with today's newspaper? Now, you can accept that his word or not. That's up to you. But my next question to him after his reply would've been what I said above.

I don't think we're so far apart. My view is that if someone wants my money, they will say anything to get it (witness the CE manufacturers quotes in my post on Dec 30). Think about buying a used car - how much trust can you put into what the seller says to you? By the same logic, I attached no value to what TUC told me prior to sale, nor to the testimonials on the website. I exchanged a lot of emails with existing customers, and they were the ones who gave me the confidence to buy the Onkyo.

This still seemed like a risk to me, and I took a lot of persuading. What I was most worried about was TUC running off with my money, and not whether the upgrades would improve SQ or not. Once I got my Onkyo I was able to prove to myself that Schulte's claims were largely met. I haven't put the Onkyo up against a $10k stereo pre-amp, but I think its fair to say that Schulte and I now share eachothers confidence - when I said my 3800 didn't sound very good, he offered several times to send a replacement without asking me to pay for it. That sort of confidence has to be earned, and we've both worked at it. I want to do business with him again, and if he rang me up with a recommendation for new product, that would be good enough for me to make the buying decision. Of course this is very, very different to where I was a year ago, but I think I'm in a similar place to many other customers.

When he told me about the measurements, it wasn't part of the selling process. I bought my Onkyo on July 13, and asked the question on Oct 12, when I already knew how the Onkyo sounded. I don't think either Schulte or I see good measurements as either an indicator or an objective for good products or upgrades. Within reason, good sounding gear can measure bad, and bad-sounding gear can measure good; I don't think there's much correlation. I asked the question out of interest, and he happened to have a few results, which were probably the sort of things I was expecting. I found the email exchange, which I copy here:
Quote:


HI Nick,

Just measurements taken here, I do not have a printer to print them out however. The SE upgraded 885 has 10 fold increase in rejection of RFI interference, 8dB higher signal to noise ratio on all boards, more extended HF and LF response, flatter freq. response in pure direct, not rolled off at the HF and LF extremes like the stock unit.

Did the Pioneer 09 arrive yet?

David

In a message dated 10/12/2009 10:06:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, **********@********.com writes:
Hi David,

Someone just asked me this question (about the Onkyo 885 upgrade):

β€œIs there any objective measurement data available that highlights the performance difference between stock and TUC modified unit?”

I seem to recall you saying that a reduction in the noise floor had been measured – is that so, and do you have any measurements?

Thanks & regards, Nick

BR, Nick
post #483 of 2187
I love how DBT is laughed at herein The tell all of inaudible but measured differences goes a long way. The " any publicity is good publicity" seems rampant. For the 5 or 6 clones (or clone) if you are truly in belief of the MODS that have been done, why in the world would you waste time trying to champion them? Trolls and hacks. Ill upgrade any piece of gear you have and provide measurable documentation and for all effective purpose have ZERO audible affect.
post #484 of 2187
He doesn't have a printer? He could'nt copy and paste from the document he was going to print? Or just forward it as an attachment? Uh-huh...
post #485 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post

Another rookie in the audiophile world. Run into a lot of them here.

If by "audiophile" you mean someone who forks over upwards of a thousand dollars for ten bucks worth of parts that supposedly deliver some unsubstantiated sonic benefit, then you're right. I am a rookie...
post #486 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by welwynnick View Post

If it was garbage, nobody would recommend it.

That's the beauty of do-nothing modifications. The component was not garbage before the mod, and since the mod did nothing, the component still isn't garbage.

The perfect mod then would make only cosmetic changes, perhaps changes that satisifed some common intuitive notion about what things should look like, ideally. Things like all capacitors umm say larger then the originals, and all lined up in rows and struttin their leads and nomenclature like ca, 1935 Nazi soldiers, right? ;-)
post #487 of 2187
I just went for a full upgrade of my office

post #488 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandphan View Post

I love how DBT is laughed at herein The tell all of inaudible but measured differences goes a long way. The " any publicity is good publicity" seems rampant. For the 5 or 6 clones (or clone) if you are truly in belief of the MODS that have been done, why in the world would you waste time trying to champion them? Trolls and hacks. Ill upgrade any piece of gear you have and provide measurable documentation and for all effective purpose have ZERO audible affect.

Ah yes, the "trolls and hacks". Thank goodness those who worship at the altar of the great god DBT rise above such inane banter and bring the level of discourse in this thread up to a new standard of civility and intellectual honesty. Impressive....... Most impressive.
post #489 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouack View Post

I just went for a full upgrade of my office


Is that you bending over? LOL
post #490 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdferguson View Post

If by "audiophile" you mean someone who forks over upwards of a thousand dollars for ten bucks worth of parts that supposedly deliver some unsubstantiated sonic benefit, then you're right. I am a rookie...

Do you know what you are looking for? Have you heard any of their units?
Didn't think so!
post #491 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post

Is that you bending over? LOL

No probably you defending your upgrade
post #492 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by par4 View Post

Ah yes, the "trolls and hacks". Thank goodness those who worship at the altar of the great god DBT rise above such inane banter and bring the level of discourse in this thread up to a new standard of civility and intellectual honesty. Impressive....... Most impressive.

you know what they say

post #493 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by kouack View Post

I just went for a full upgrade of my office


Looks like the Signature Edition Office upgrade. I'm surprised you were able to get pictures without being sued.

Bill
post #494 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Looks like the Signature Edition Office upgrade. I'm surprised you were able to get pictures without being sued.

Bill

Worse yet, the warranty was voided the moment he opened the door to the room.
post #495 of 2187
If TUC or anyone else was actually capable of doing anything sonically substantial by replacing components (let us not forget the magical power cables) in a well designed and factory warrantied device, why would they not simply manufacture such a spectacular device from the ground up?

More money, more prestige, and no doubt as to the quality of the product.

Anyone can replace caps etc and claim there is a tremendous improvement BUT without documentation and lab testing / calibration is is no more than Dr. John's Heal Elixir. (turpentine)

In my early days of stereo repair, McIntosh, HK, Teac, Nakamichi, Ampex, Sony etc, we did make a few changes such as increasing the wattage rating of certain resistors as the current draw was close to the max for the original selected parts. This did not in any way alter the audio response, it simply increased the expected life of the part. A few other parts were replaced with heavier duty components during a repair session but only to toughen up the unit- not to alter the response.

One thing most states require of electronic repair facilities. All replaced parts must be returned to the client upon request except those with a possible core/ factory return requirement. Will TUC give you all the original parts with the upgraded unit?

How on earth can anyone have a month between listening sessions on a given piece of gear and expect to accurately detect supposed minute changes with no reference. There is nothing scientific about that.

How did TUC develop their "upgrades"? Did they do a DBT and side by side comparison with 2 identical devices and use the appropriate test /calibration equipment to document the before/after effects?

There seems to be no end to the level of hyperbole susceptibility in the stereo world. Amazing.
post #496 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

If TUC or anyone else was actually capable of doing anything sonically substantial by replacing components (let us not forget the magical power cables) in a well designed and factory warrantied device, why would they not simply manufacture such a spectacular device from the ground up?

More money, more prestige, and no doubt as to the quality of the product.

Anyone can replace caps etc and claim there is a tremendous improvement BUT without documentation and lab testing / calibration is is no more than Dr. John's Heal Elixir. (turpentine)

In my early days of stereo repair, McIntosh, HK, Teac, Nakamichi, Ampex, Sony etc, we did make a few changes such as increasing the wattage rating of certain resistors as the current draw was close to the max for the original selected parts. This did not in any way alter the audio response, it simply increased the expected life of the part. A few other parts were replaced with heavier duty components during a repair session but only to toughen up the unit- not to alter the response.

One thing most states require of electronic repair facilities. All replaced parts must be returned to the client upon request except those with a possible core/ factory return requirement. Will TUC give you all the original parts with the upgraded unit?

How on earth can anyone have a month between listening sessions on a given piece of gear and expect to accurately detect supposed minute changes with no reference. There is nothing scientific about that.

How did TUC develop their "upgrades"? Did they do a DBT and side by side comparison with 2 identical devices and use the appropriate test /calibration equipment to document the before/after effects?

There seems to be no end to the level of hyperbole susceptibility in the stereo world. Amazing.

Fascinating questions. No doubt with this level of interest you'll be calling TUC first thing Monday morning and get all this sorted out.
Hopefully you'll report back to this thread with your findings...........
post #497 of 2187
Sometimes the obvious needs to be put into words and no, I don't think it's worth wasting a LD call on. (I do like your sarcasm.)

The same mods cane be achieved by standing in a graveyard at midnight and waving a beheaded chicken over the equipment. Same results.
post #498 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post

Do you know what you are looking for? Have you heard any of their units? Didn't think so!

It really boils down to one simple principle: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and what is asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. Consequently, I don't need to hear "their" units to dismiss TUC's claims; their refusal to provide a shred of documentation or other information makes their claims valueless. The information and photos posted by others on this thread (including, like yourself, the handful of suspiciously brand new members gushing about their upgrade experiences) do nothing but confirm my suspicions about TUC's claims as well as their business ethics.

While I may be a rookie when it comes to high end audio mods, I have more than six decades studying human nature. If you are in fact David Schulte or someone associated with TUC (which I notice you didn't deny earlier in this thread), your deceptiveness and arrogance comes through clearer than any component mod could ever hope to achieve.
post #499 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

If TUC or anyone else was actually capable of doing anything sonically substantial by replacing components (let us not forget the magical power cables) in a well designed and factory warrantied device, why would they not simply manufacture such a spectacular device from the ground up?

More money, more prestige, and no doubt as to the quality of the product.

Dan Wright of Modwright did exactly that. His preamps are wonderful.
post #500 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdferguson View Post

It really boils down to one simple principle: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and what is asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. Consequently, I don't need to hear "their" units to dismiss TUC's claims; their refusal to provide a shred of documentation or other information makes their claims valueless. The information and photos posted by others on this thread (including, like yourself, the handful of suspiciously brand new members gushing about their upgrade experiences) do nothing but confirm my suspicions about TUC's claims as well as their business ethics.

While I may be a rookie when it comes to high end audio mods, I have more than six decades studying human nature. If you are in fact David Schulte or someone associated with TUC (which I notice you didn't deny earlier in this thread), your deceptiveness and arrogance comes through clearer than any component mod could ever hope to achieve.

All this tells me is that you won't be buying any audio equipment then. There is not a shred of evidence of how a unit is going to sound to you regardless of what you read. You must dismiss every reviewer out there then. What documentation does a reviewer give you and if they give you something how do you know it is the truth? Everything in audio is word of mouth until you have actually experienced the sound yourself. I have experienced stock versions and upgraded versions and I am just telling you what I hear. Even the mad customer has heard it. He was really happy with the sound when it was in his system. Now he is not happy and it has nothing to do with the way the unit sounded to him. All I see are good reviews and testimonials. No different than a reviewer writing a good review. Most will take the review with a grain of salt but may buy something after reading a good review.

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure.

- Albert Einstein

Also, I am not Dave and I don't have an affiliation with his company.
post #501 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post

There is not a shred of evidence of how a unit is going to sound to you regardless of what you read.

Most members on this site prefer to audition audio equipment prior to making a purchase. I don't trust what I read unless I know the source of the writing.
post #502 of 2187
rno63, Dave or whoever you are: "All this tells me is that you won't be buying any audio equipment then". How do you come to this conclusion or some of the others you've made here like if you read a good review don't we want to go out and buy it? As Kshep just replied, most members on this site prefer to audition equipment before we make a purchase. After 17 pages I have to wonder why you're still posting here trying to convince us to to give TUC a try, and failing miserably at it. You obviously have something to gain from this, be it a free or reduced cost "mod"
Why can't you just flip the lid and post some pics? I know pics mean nothing to you because it just sounds better but to us, who you're trying to convince it would go a long way. I know you're sworn to the secret society of TUC but Jeez man, it is your equipment.
And why would you even reference classba when he calls the guy a dame thief (or a damn thief, or a dame who's a thief, I don't know, whatever he meant). And whoever provided the link to AudioKarma I think it was and to Vincent, the guy with all the MacIntosh equip, reading thru the entire post he states he only noticed a slight improvement and wishes he never had it done. Great endorsement!
To you comparing a stock unit to an upgraded one, seeing measurements or doing blind tests are meaningless. Yet TUC "maintains a wide variety of ultra high end models" which I would have to assume they use to compare to the mod unit. Why else have them? But I know, the mod just sounds better so you don't have to do it.
Measurements? "We measure, record and quantify the performance of the stock unit...We employ both measurement equipment and recording equipment to record and quantify (he likes that word) each units stock performance prior to any work being done". With an advanced recording system no less. "We quantify the units performance both in its stock oem condition and just prior to shipping it back to the customer". "The measured and perceived performance of a digital component goes up in most cases well over $40,000 in terms of retail pricing'. Why isn't the customer provided with a copy of these measured improvements? Do they really exist? I know measurements are worthless because after all, it just sounds better. Just show us!
Blind tests? Well TUC believes in them as "TUC employs double blind multi partcipant AB listening sessions". But I know, the standard answer, it just sounds better.
What's up with the recorded phone calls? Unless you're afraid of future litigation theres no purpose in doing this. I hope he's letting the party know he's recording the conversation as in my state and in others both parties have to consent. And asking for details of the upgrade is essentially stealing. What?? Are we to blindly send him $1000-$1500 and have no accounting of what is to be done or even after it is done? Child please!
He also states that "wiring comprised of highly advanced high purity tightly wound silver/copper teflon and only available by advanced military contractors" is used. So how did he acquire this. Is he a military contractor then? Or is a military contractor supplying this wiring to him? Is he or a contractor using parts paid for by the military for personal gain? Should the government be notified?
My highlight and hopefully I got the quotes correct. I've been watching football all day (the Bucs, ugh) and obviously that involves lots of liquor.
And whats up with the only picture of a customer on the website is that of a father? (no offense father). I presume he was ordained in the traditional sense but this is strictly an attempt to add legitimacy. I mean how can we not trust the word of a religious man.
If a thread was started polling forum members asking yes or no:
a) Would you have a piece of equipment modified by TUC or
b) No thank you, I don't feel like getting TUCed
I think we both know what the overwhelming response would be.
post #503 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Dan Wright of Modwright did exactly that. His preamps are wonderful.

Now there is a person of integrity in the Mod business. Dan discloses all of what he does and is quick to answer any questions personally. I had a question on one of his preamps and he responded several days later. He apologized for not contacting me sooner as he was traveling overseas.

I did not buy the 9.0 preamp but when I have the funds in the future I will be buying a Modwright preamp for sure. Ole' Davey could learn a lesson or two from Dan Wright.

Bill
post #504 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronesp View Post

He also states that "wiring comprised of highly advanced high purity tightly wound silver/copper teflon and only available by advanced military contractors" is used. So how did he acquire this. Is he a military contractor then? Or is a military contractor supplying this wiring to him? Is he or a contractor using parts paid for by the military for personal gain? Should the government be notified?

Did he honestly say advanced military contractors? What in heck is an advanced military contractor?

Mil-spec wire is available to anyone, and Mil-specs are generally wrapped around configuration/process/test/QC controls which add reliability in harsh environments (and cost), but not any intrinsic performance benefits unavailable commercially.

This sounds an awful lot like marketing BS, but maybe rno63 can help us out here. Hope he doesn't tell us it's cryo'd.
post #505 of 2187
[quote=ronesp;17842842]
Quote:


And whats up with the only picture of a customer on the website is that of a father? (no offense father). I presume he was ordained in the traditional sense but this is strictly an attempt to add legitimacy. I mean how can we not trust the word of a religious man.

I almost commented earlier on the fact that TUC has picture of a priest (religion?) on their website supposedly to show that he must be trustworthy but I did not. I mean no ill will towards the priest in that picture but I grew up in Boston and there was quite scandal involving the Catholic church that went on for decades. I know any form of religion discussion is frowned upon here and I do not want to offend anyone. But after what I saw happening in Boston my trust level was changed forever.

Quote:


If a thread was started polling forum members asking yes or no:
a) Would you have a piece of equipment modified by TUC or
b) No thank you, I don't feel like getting TUCed
I think we both know what the overwhelming response would be.

Put me down for a NO.

Bill
post #506 of 2187
[quote=Bill Mac;17844769]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronesp View Post



I almost commented earlier on the fact that TUC has picture of a priest (religion?) on their website supposedly to show that he must be trustworthy but I did not. I mean no ill will towards the priest in that picture but I grew up in Boston and there was quite scandal involving the Catholic church that went on for decades. I know any form of religion discussion is frowned upon here and I do not want to offend anyone. But after what I saw happening in Boston my trust level was changed forever.



Put me down for a NO.

Bill

The power of Shulte compels you. Keep repeating in order to exorcise the demons in your equipment!
post #507 of 2187
[quote=Chu Gai;17844809]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The power of Shulte compels you. Keep repeating in order to exorcise the demons in your equipment!

And yet more non-stop humor from the endless repertoire of the great man....... will the laughter ever subside from the Forum participants?
post #508 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rno63 View Post

Is that you bending over? LOL

And here you are rno63...you mention highjacking, yet your are insulting a member asking if he is bending over LOL. Please explain how your participation here benefits me and other members. I find the above post insulting and down right vulgar!
post #509 of 2187
it seems the same group is here insulting each other here too: disgraceful: several members banned from thread

if you want back and can learn to follow AVS rules, PM me
post #510 of 2187
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronesp View Post

rno63, Dave or whoever you are: "All this tells me is that you won't be buying any audio equipment then". How do you come to this conclusion or some of the others you've made here like if you read a good review don't we want to go out and buy it? As Kshep just replied, most members on this site prefer to audition equipment before we make a purchase. After 17 pages I have to wonder why you're still posting here trying to convince us to to give TUC a try, and failing miserably at it. You obviously have something to gain from this, be it a free or reduced cost "mod"
Why can't you just flip the lid and post some pics? I know pics mean nothing to you because it just sounds better but to us, who you're trying to convince it would go a long way. I know you're sworn to the secret society of TUC but Jeez man, it is your equipment.
And why would you even reference classba when he calls the guy a dame thief (or a damn thief, or a dame who's a thief, I don't know, whatever he meant). And whoever provided the link to AudioKarma I think it was and to Vincent, the guy with all the MacIntosh equip, reading thru the entire post he states he only noticed a slight improvement and wishes he never had it done. Great endorsement!
To you comparing a stock unit to an upgraded one, seeing measurements or doing blind tests are meaningless. Yet TUC "maintains a wide variety of ultra high end models" which I would have to assume they use to compare to the mod unit. Why else have them? But I know, the mod just sounds better so you don't have to do it.
Measurements? "We measure, record and quantify the performance of the stock unit...We employ both measurement equipment and recording equipment to record and quantify (he likes that word) each units stock performance prior to any work being done". With an advanced recording system no less. "We quantify the units performance both in its stock oem condition and just prior to shipping it back to the customer". "The measured and perceived performance of a digital component goes up in most cases well over $40,000 in terms of retail pricing'. Why isn't the customer provided with a copy of these measured improvements? Do they really exist? I know measurements are worthless because after all, it just sounds better. Just show us!
Blind tests? Well TUC believes in them as "TUC employs double blind multi partcipant AB listening sessions". But I know, the standard answer, it just sounds better.
What's up with the recorded phone calls? Unless you're afraid of future litigation theres no purpose in doing this. I hope he's letting the party know he's recording the conversation as in my state and in others both parties have to consent. And asking for details of the upgrade is essentially stealing. What?? Are we to blindly send him $1000-$1500 and have no accounting of what is to be done or even after it is done? Child please!
He also states that "wiring comprised of highly advanced high purity tightly wound silver/copper teflon and only available by advanced military contractors" is used. So how did he acquire this. Is he a military contractor then? Or is a military contractor supplying this wiring to him? Is he or a contractor using parts paid for by the military for personal gain? Should the government be notified?
My highlight and hopefully I got the quotes correct. I've been watching football all day (the Bucs, ugh) and obviously that involves lots of liquor.
And whats up with the only picture of a customer on the website is that of a father? (no offense father). I presume he was ordained in the traditional sense but this is strictly an attempt to add legitimacy. I mean how can we not trust the word of a religious man.
If a thread was started polling forum members asking yes or no:
a) Would you have a piece of equipment modified by TUC or
b) No thank you, I don't feel like getting TUCed
I think we both know what the overwhelming response would be.

Very well put. You have summed this up very accurately and I agree with you completely. I also noticed the father (priest?) giving his testimony. That was just way over the top. I could not believe that someone would actually "use" something like that to promote sales. Nothing is sacred to this guy.
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