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I've had it up to here with AV123 - Page 14

post #391 of 586
This thread has been quite entertaining. And it's strayed off course. 2 cents worth from a broke ass single dad who run's his own business...
Customer/Employee treatment for me is #1, hard to have success without trust.
Groceries, i hate to buy anything not local, but ya, i have to shop wallyworld too once in awhile.
The Money Pit of the your mind is what i like to call this. The guys/gals on here are always trying to help one way or the other. Whether it's crap you don't want to hear or whatever, they will try to help. Most don't say " Never buy or don't buy ", they say beware or do a little reading first, this company has had problem's...now the frustration a few week's later or month's later and you'll know why they post what they post.
When it's a couple of people i could see why people freak, but when it's thousand's on a small amount of forum' that complain...why would someone even take the chance ?
post #392 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnbs View Post

I'm not the one who drank MLS' cool aid and all pissed at him now. And I wasn't the one who brought up the moral question. Just answering it. Eitherway, I'm bowing out. Life lesson....never drink cool aid or join a cult.

The guy you are quoting and accusing of drinking cool aid and joining a cult was over in Iraq defending our country. Mark promised to send him and the troops a donation, but I am sure by now you can guess what happened with that... You have little idea of who you insult and it is becoming quite obvious by your own admission that you have little respect for anything but money.

I honestly don't care if you want to support Mark because he is the cheapest, but don't come in here throwing around morality lessons about global politics and where we shop for groceries that has nothing to do with what Mark has done to us as a community. I am not saying you don't have a point, but what on earth are you doing in a thread throwing darts at people who were victims of fraud? Seriously, enjoy your sub. Telling others that their concerns are pathetic or that they don't have a life or that they are cult members isn't going to make your sub sound better. Be happy that you are a lucky one and quit antagonizing legitimate victims.
post #393 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

You're the one that brought it up. Unless you or someone has a credible link or specific information to back it up it's just another thing to derail the thread further from the topic. If you do have such information to warrant such a question, would have been nice to include it also.

If I had such info I would gladly share it thats why I asked. The title of this thread tells me I AM ON TOPIC.
post #394 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnbs View Post

So, you are the reason why Jose can't feed his family. If you only paid 10 cents more for that apple, Jose wouldn't have to work 25 hours a day.. I guess I'm also to blame....I shop there too.

What exactly are you implying by using a name of latin american/hispanic decent?
post #395 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWG707 View Post

What a crying shame. People that follow this type of logic is what pollutes our society. Where is your sense of compassion, your dignity, your values? I truely feel sorry for you. That's got to be one of the most selfish posts that I have ever read.

I am surprised you're surprised.

I can continue to quote the deciding factor in 99% of those who purchase av123 products but it would be pointless, and is why I stopped after the second one.

Like many have mentioned here, people can't help but pat themselves on the back for buying something they feel is worth more than what they paid for. The only downside, in the end, is it eventually costs them much more (regardless of form).

You'd be hard pressed to find a thief that felt guilty for something they stole, until they get caught that is.
post #396 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

I am surprised you're surprised.

I can continue to quote the deciding factor in 99% of those who purchase av123 products but it would be pointless, and is why I stopped after the second one.

Like many have mentioned here, people can't help but pat themselves on the back for buying something they feel is worth more than what they paid for. The only downside, in the end, is it eventually costs them much more (regardless of form).

You'd be hard pressed to find a thief that felt guilty for something they stole, until they get caught that is.

lol thats a good point.

In all fairness if you can't use people for your own benefit you will not get anywhere in the world (does not matter how you use them or at what cost), all it comes down to is how low your standards are. For all of you who think your it a good person(cause you dont support this and that because of some moral belief look around your room)...ignorance is bliss in my room alone are more products made by some poor immigrant in a third whole country than I can count on 20 hands. If we ever get to the point of buying with a real people cost value added, things are going to get hella expensive fast...
post #397 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

So, in short, who cares about everyone else, as long you have warranty support? If you ever do need that support, and you end like many others with constant run arounds and in the end no product, would that change your tune? Because if it did, would seem a bit misplaced, no?


I certainly dont care about people who don't own AVS products and are trying to destroy the company.

I have needed support and got it...amps replaced within a week each time it went out, and this time its worked since earlier this year, and seems permanently fixed.

Debby downers hate it when something goes right for an AVS customer.

BTW I noticed noone has offered to repair my MFW should it break, if their efforts to destroy AVS are successful.

GG.
post #398 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobek View Post

Ever check if your high horse comes with a saddle made in China?

I was expressly commenting on your comments concerning the KKK burning crosses, the killing of dolphins and pandas and neglecting starving children. For you to just post something like that says alot concerning your character. I do not claim to be on any "high horse" and have not made any comments dealing with who I buy from or who I don't buy from, you are trying to read between the lines with little success. Your post reeks of selfishness and greed. How hard it must be to find any (true) friends or relationships with an attitude like you portray.
post #399 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

BTW I noticed noone has offered to repair my MFW should it break, if their efforts to destroy AVS are successful.

It is interesting that you don't think AV123/MLS(not AVS) is responsible for anything.

You seem to always overlook the raffles as well.
post #400 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post


BTW I noticed noone has offered to repair my MFW should it break, if their efforts to destroy AVS are successful.

GG.

If AV123 fails, it won't be because of the threads that have popped up on the Internet. That burden will fall on the current owner and president of AV123. These threads didn't tell him to underfund charities, these threads didn't tell him to have users "pre-pay" for some hope of a future item to be designed, built and delivered by AV123.
post #401 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

I certainly dont care about people who don't own AVS products and are trying to destroy the company.

I have needed support and got it...amps replaced within a week each time it went out, and this time its worked since earlier this year, and seems permanently fixed.

Debby downers hate it when something goes right for an AVS customer.

BTW I noticed noone has offered to repair my MFW should it break, if their efforts to destroy AVS are successful.

GG.

Yes, yes. Blame the angry victims if you don't have warranty help.

What you should do is pick up the phone and call Mark and tell him to quit lying, stealing, cheating and breaking laws so you will have a warranty. Tell him if he doesn't get his act together you, me, and a whole lot of people are going to be screwed. It won't work, but at least you will have your anger placed in the right direction.
post #402 of 586
Theelviscerator, what's your take on how the amp issue with 123's ULW-10 subs was recently handled with respect to the customers who'd been waiting for over a year? The sub originally came with a 350 watt amp. When problems developed the replacement amp was 500 watts. When problems continued with the amps, the last solution was to provide an amp that's sold by Parts Express with a power rating of 240 watts. Now, granted, the customers who couldn't use their subs at least now had something, but was that something that they now had a satisfactory solution?
post #403 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed M View Post

Yes, yes. Blame the angry victims if you don't have warranty help.

What you should do is pick up the phone and call Mark and tell him to quit lying, stealing, cheating and breaking laws so you will have a warranty. Tell him if he doesn't get his act together you, me, and a whole lot of people are going to be screwed. It won't work, but at least you will have your anger placed in the right direction.

I had a nice, long, thoughtful reply, but it appears it did not go through when i tried to post.

By all accounts, all of the poeple that were "harmed" by MLS were done so by going through some form of irregular practice. I think it is a little reckless to assume everyone who deals with them is going to get shfated eventually. I have not seen a single case of a warranty not being honered, or when an ordred, existing product has not shipped. It seems completely logical to assume that is going to continue, and that there will be a many satisfied customers.

As far as any moral or ethical dilema goes, I don't believe it is my place to judge. If there was some ill willed issues going on, then I have faith in the universe being able to work the issues out. As far as saying if I would have purchased having known about the other issues before hand, I think that would depend on exactly what was said or promised, as well as all of the other facts. The internet is like a giant game of telephone, and things have a way of losing accuracy in some shape or form. I can only hope that the good intentions are there, and that at some point everyone will be made whole.
post #404 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnbs View Post

So you are telling me, you never ever bought anything made from China? India? Never ate a fruit pick from the hands off cheap labor from Mexico? Where is your moral for these people? When you continue to support and buy from the very companies that exploit them. Please don't sit on your high horse and judge. Don't bother to take the speck of dirt from my eyes before you take it off your's first.

Look into trade practices and economics before flapping your gums, the argument is old, tired and inaccurate.

It is easy to say that all the people who work in overseas factories are tired, dehumanized, overworked and dying to make your trinket.

It is a sad fact though, that for many of the third world countries their labor market is the only commodity they have to try to pull themselves up out of striking poverty and desperate conditions. Go ahead, shut down "3rd world country X's clothing factories and lets see how great life gets for the population who now has NO job, NO income, NO education and NOTHING else to offer. Great. Good job.

Oh, and in case you missed the news for the last 20 years, while many are still desperately poor the standard of living, savings rate, infant mortality rate, life expectancy and civil liberties in China and India have been improving by a considerable margin, due in part to the labor pool and attracting foreign investment.
post #405 of 586
I believe the OP said he got his replacement sub recently.

Should that not have ended all the extra banter of the last few pages?

Lol...

I hope his new sub looks and performs as he expected it to originally.

Let's congratulate him on getting his problem resolved and move on, shall we?
post #406 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by lodit View Post

let's congratulate him on getting his problem resolved and move on, shall we?

+1 :d
post #407 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

Go ahead, shut down "3rd world country X's clothing factories and lets see how great life gets for the population who now has NO job, NO income, NO education and NOTHING else to offer. Great. Good job.

That is so wrong, on so many levels.

If that helps you sleep at night, continue on.
post #408 of 586
Greetings all, rychern here or "DWAYLAND" as I am known elsewhere...

You wanna hear something really sick???

I just got home from work and my daughter, "****," who is using the internet for many of her school assignments told me that, "Just for fun" she did a google search on her name and what she saw at the very top of the results was This Thread. I don't know how much she read, but she started asking questions about the raffles, AV123 and why her name was here in the first place.

I can't tell you just how SAD this all is. Not the fact that you are all discussing it, but the fact that there is a reason in the first place to be discussing it.

A very, very dissapointed father.

Derek
post #409 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobek View Post

That is so wrong, on so many levels.

If that helps you sleep at night, continue on.

Is it wrong, really?

My father and mother had 3rd and 5th grade educations respectively. While born here, they were taken back to the old country while still young but returned to the US during the Great Depression. Not much in the way of jobs. For a time my father worked in the CCC earning $1/day which he had the good sense not to gamble away. They married in the late 40's but things are tough if you don't have an education or skills. Both wound up working in textile mills for peanuts. No health benefits. Don't get sick. Be productive as hell or we'll find someone else who can barely speak english to work. Work wasn't guaranteed, but my mother had saved enough money to buy some land which they did. The house they built, well that was the same house my mother's two sister's built. One blueprint that was turned different ways. Relatives would work on one house and when finished, would move to the other one. By today's standards, the house was a sort of large cottage.

I didn't know I was poor. My clothes came from 1st or 2nd hand me downs. We'd do our shopping at the day old store and freeze stale bread. Meats came from chickens we raised and fruits and vegetables from crops we grew.

After enough layoffs and rehires, my father took the step of clearing all the land, about 4 acres, and growing more and more vegetables which we sold at a roadside stand. They found ways for me and my brother to work even when 4. As I got older, my hours, when it wasn't school, were up at 5 to bed at 10 or 11. And brother, I worked. I'd help with the fertilizing, planting, weeding, picking, irrigation, and working the stand. We rented another 8 acres and we cleared that. Just a family job with the relatives coming on weekends if we were lucky. I'd pick strawberries in the rain and I could do an easy 500 quarts without breaking a sweat. Tomatoes, I picked tons.

So yeah, compared to where we are today, things can be tough in China. But they were tough 40 and 50 years ago.

So, what do you say to the people who bought from us and our slave labor, because really, that's what it was? I don't feel bad for China. That's just life and by the looks of it, they're not doing too bad. They're a damned bit ahead of where my folks were when they worked in the textile mills, which eventually shut down and moved south because the damned $35/week my father got was too much. At least they have jobs.
post #410 of 586
Derek, you tell her we all pull for her and we're out for justice.
post #411 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by rychern View Post

Greetings all, rychern here or "DWAYLAND" as I am known elsewhere...

You wanna hear something really sick???

I just got home from work and my daughter, "Bemi," who is using the internet for many of her school assignments told me that, "Just for fun" she did a google search on her name and what she saw at the very top of the results was This Thread. I don't know how much she read, but she started asking questions about the raffles, AV123 and why her name was here in the first place.

I can't tell you just how SAD this all is. Not the fact that you are all discussing it, but the fact that there is a reason in the first place to be discussing it.

A very, very dissapointed father.

Derek

How did your families personal information get on the web?
post #412 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

How did your families personal information get on the web?

The information was presented within the raffles posted by MLS and then in future discussions regarding the raffles, like the one where all of the other raffles were listed out.

To be honest, it's not like I ever hid my identity or anything and "I" mentioned my daughters name publicly as well.

I'm not upset at our names being out there, I'm just upset at what shows up when a search is run. There is much more to this family than these raffles.
post #413 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobek View Post

That is so wrong, on so many levels.

If that helps you sleep at night, continue on.

Where, exactly, is it wrong to state that trade boosts a nations economy?

Where is the theory of a nation having a comparative advantage incorrect?

Show me how a nations growing wealth, which is increasing the quality of life for its citizens, is wrong.

How is a nation utilizing its assets (such as its labor force) wrong?
post #414 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Sobek, rather than me regurgitate everything for you here. There are a couple of good sources for information.

This one is long...but it is all there:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=53755

Here as well:
http://dontschiftermebro.com/forum/index.php?board=1.0

AWesome. Now people have no excuse for acting like they don't know the guy's shifty. Thanks for the links - same info I found myself but nice to have it all in one place.
post #415 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnbs View Post

Everyone wants to be rightous but no one is willing to pay it with their pocket. So in the end, I too can't be rightous. I rather have money.

Don't speak for me, pal. Believe it or not, some of us do make decisions based on right and wrong, not money or things. My wife can attest (and supports) the fact that we won't buy anything with diamonds anymore for jewelry because of the stuff going on overseas in that industry.

As much as you'd like to think that we "all" do it, and we can't help it - make no mistake, you have made the choice to discard the morality of the issue. All choice, by you alone. No "all of us are doing it" argument saves you on that one. Just embrace your lack of moral code and move on, but don't rationalize by claiming all of us are in the same hole.
post #416 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

I certainly dont care about people who don't own AVS products and are trying to destroy the company.

I have needed support and got it...amps replaced within a week each time it went out, and this time its worked since earlier this year, and seems permanently fixed.

Debby downers hate it when something goes right for an AVS customer.

BTW I noticed noone has offered to repair my MFW should it break, if their efforts to destroy AVS are successful.

GG.

My response was to your post regarding your insensitivity torwards others should they need support, and were not aware of the POSSIBILITY that support may not be there, as long as YOU received the support.

Look, it is no secret that purchasing one of these products is a gamble.

The only thing your post above proves that you have a tendency to take things out of context for your own self serving rationalizations.
post #417 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobek View Post

That is so wrong, on so many levels.

If that helps you sleep at night, continue on.

Just how many of these 3rd world factories have you been to?

I've been to several and have seen how people are able to make more money in one year than their entire family would otherwise have made in their lifetime.

Are they paid low wages by our standards, YES. Do I believe that companies and the American shopping public are taking advantage of this, ABSOLUTELY.

But I also know from first hand experience that we cannot base everything on our standards.
post #418 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely8 View Post

Don't speak for me, pal. Believe it or not, some of us do make decisions based on right and wrong, not money or things. My wife can attest (and supports) the fact that we won't buy anything with diamonds anymore for jewelry because of the stuff going on overseas in that industry.

As much as you'd like to think that we "all" do it, and we can't help it - make no mistake, you have made the choice to discard the morality of the issue. All choice, by you alone. No "all of us are doing it" argument saves you on that one. Just embrace your lack of moral code and move on, but don't rationalize by claiming all of us are in the same hole.


+1. Making those choices is one of the most powerful things you can do as a consumer. I find myself doing this more and more. Of course one needs to have sufficient resources to pick and choose vendors for large purchases, and there's the rub. It seems most of the new 123 customers are attracted by the cheap prices because it's in their price range.

As far as the actual products go, corner cutting is what would concern me most. Not so much in the performance but with the materials used. Nobody ever seems to think about that. What about Chinese toys with lead in the paint? Radioactive gold used to make class rings? I'm not casting aspersions for the hell of it, rather asking a question. The finishing standards in the U.S. are pretty strict nowadays for just this reason, which is another reason I'm glad my speakers are made in the U.S.A.

Chris
post #419 of 586
Wowee, a lot of wasted time here on the old AVS forums lately.

I don't remember a time where people that are incessantly arguing back-and-forth about something on forums changing their minds and saying, 'you're right, I now see it your way'. So what's the point?

People just love to argue.
post #420 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by rychern View Post

The information was presented within the raffles posted by MLS and then in future discussions regarding the raffles, like the one where all of the other raffles were listed out.

To be honest, it's not like I ever hid my identity or anything and "I" mentioned my daughters name publicly as well.

I'm not upset at our names being out there, I'm just upset at what shows up when a search is run. There is much more to this family than these raffles.

Yes there is and I've gone back to my original post which quoted someone else's finding and redacted your family's information.
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