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CRT Projectors for gaming

post #1 of 22
11/24/09 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
How does a 1080p CRT projector compare to a 57" 1080i rear projection CRT HDTV? No overscan issues? Same or greater risk of burn-in? I know nothing about configuring CRT projectors. How often would it need to be worked on?

Would it be a good idea to purchase a 1080p CRT projector and use it 90% - 100% of the time for gaming? I have a 57" inch rear projection 1080i CRT that got burn-in from the taskbar because I use it as my PC monitor. This is after just one year of excessive use as a PC monitor. But it got no burn-in from gaming for over 3 years. Contrast was always between 0% and 25% for both.

I only do 480p gaming, and I know digital 1080p displays do a terrible job of upscaling 480p to 1080p. So CRTs are currently the only way of getting good quality 480p. This is one of my main reasons for preferring CRT. The other would be the lack of input lag in CRTs. If only there were a digital display that could display 480p properly and have absolutely zero input lag.
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post #2 of 22
11/24/09 at 7:07pm
Almost zero risk of burnin- unless you go on holidays and leave some static screen up, as you did with the RP. A taskbar is NOT advised.

You want an EM focusing set, and good convergence. You're right, CRTs have no lag, but keep in mind that 1080p is way overrated. Assuming you're using a Wii (480p is what tipped me off), run 480p into the CRT, or get a good scaler, and upconvert to 720p or 1080p if you want.
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post #3 of 22
11/24/09 at 7:25pm
Thread Starter 
Isn't it best to do as little upscaling as possible regardless of the upscaler? Or is there actually actually some benefit to upscaling 480p to 1080i/p instead? On my 57", I always have it set to 540p instead of 1080i to minimize the upscaling. Also, how does 480p look on a 70" or larger projector screen? I read that 480p is much better on a screen under 45 inches.
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post #4 of 22
11/24/09 at 8:52pm
Here's a video of my kids playing Wii when it came out 3 years ago...




1080P... 9' wide screen from a G90

I'd say maybe 5,000 hrs out of 14,000 hours on my G90 are from my kids and their friends gaming... PS3, Wii, X360
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post #5 of 22
11/25/09 at 8:24am
cool, a bowling alley without the drunken Peckerwoods and clouds of cigarrete smoke
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post #6 of 22
11/25/09 at 8:13pm
I've gamed on a little Barco 708s for years now. No overscan issues (you can tweak these to death, anyway). As for maintenance -- get a solid unit, set it up right, and you barely have to touch the thing. I've only had to swap out a splitter so far on my setup. Very simple, and I'm not even a technical person.

No burn-in. Just use common sense. Keep the contrast reasonable (as you mentioned), blacken the room, and keep the static stuff offscreen as much as possible. You'll get years out of it. Tubes can last a really long time. Heck, I go to 50-60% contrast a lot and it's still vibrant. Wouldn't recommend a full PC setup on a PJ, though, for various reasons.

Yeah, you certainly want to avoid any extra processing to avoid lag if you can. My 708 takes 480p component directly -- instant response, and I think it looks great at ~100"+. Everything from Wii to PC stuff is a real visual blast. I mean it! I save 720p/1080i for movies and HD games.

Side note... a lot of folks seem to dismiss black levels for gaming, but they make the adventure / RPG / action stuff so much more intense and cinematic. It's simply a treat playing stuff like Metroid, Zelda, Resident Evil (or anything else, really) on a huge CRT PJ screen.

Hope I'm not saying stuff you already know...!
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post #7 of 22
11/26/09 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard99 View Post

I've gamed on a little Barco 708s for years now. No overscan issues (you can tweak these to death, anyway). As for maintenance -- get a solid unit, set it up right, and you barely have to touch the thing. I've only had to swap out a splitter so far on my setup. Very simple, and I'm not even a technical person.

Amen! brother Gerard The people on here who are constantly fiddling and tweaking on their machines need to stop putting that white powder up their noses. More often than not those are the machines have continuous problems as well.
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post #8 of 22
11/26/09 at 10:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard99 View Post

I've gamed on a little Barco 708s for years now. No overscan issues (you can tweak these to death, anyway). As for maintenance -- get a solid unit, set it up right, and you barely have to touch the thing. I've only had to swap out a splitter so far on my setup. Very simple, and I'm not even a technical person.

No burn-in. Just use common sense. Keep the contrast reasonable (as you mentioned), blacken the room, and keep the static stuff offscreen as much as possible. You'll get years out of it. Tubes can last a really long time. Heck, I go to 50-60% contrast a lot and it's still vibrant. Wouldn't recommend a full PC setup on a PJ, though, for various reasons.

Yeah, you certainly want to avoid any extra processing to avoid lag if you can. My 708 takes 480p component directly -- instant response, and I think it looks great at ~100"+. Everything from Wii to PC stuff is a real visual blast. I mean it! I save 720p/1080i for movies and HD games.


Side note... a lot of folks seem to dismiss black levels for gaming, but they make the adventure / RPG / action stuff so much more intense and cinematic. It's simply a treat playing stuff like Metroid, Zelda, Resident Evil (or anything else, really) on a huge CRT PJ screen.

Hope I'm not saying stuff you already know...!

How can you blacken a room with a lot of windows? I'm already used to using my RPCRT with low contrast in a non black room and it seems fine. 25% contrast is usually the highest I use it. Also, if its main use is gaming, it's pretty much impossible to keep static stuff off the screen. Almost every game has some kind of static information being displayed that can't be turned off.

Why do people say that 480p looks best on smaller sized screens if it really looks just as good on a 100" screen? And would you recommend a Barco or a Sony G90? I read about the chip problem on the G90 so I suppose Barco would be a better choice?
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post #9 of 22
11/26/09 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darien95 View Post

Why do people say that 480p looks best on smaller sized screens if it really looks just as good on a 100" screen? And would you recommend a Barco or a Sony G90? I read about the chip problem on the G90 so I suppose Barco would be a better choice?

480 on a 100" screen will look fine if your using a 7 inch electrostatic focusing set. Once you got ot 8 or 9 inch EM focus the scan lines will be more sharply resolved (smaller) and quite noticeable. I would go with Barco or MArquee over sony. Use black out cloth as a liner on curtains for light control.
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post #10 of 22
11/26/09 at 1:52pm
Thread Starter 
So 480p isn't good on a 9" 1080p projector? What if I wanted to use 1080p sources in the future? Would 1080p be significantly better on a 9" than 7" or 8"?
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post #11 of 22
11/26/09 at 10:32pm
CRT term i new to me ? can you explain little bit about it?? i will wait for your answer thanks in advance
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post #12 of 22
11/29/09 at 1:07pm
Bit of a read, but it makes it all clear...

http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer_1.shtm
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post #13 of 22
11/29/09 at 10:01pm
Anandtech did an article on lag a couple of months ago. If you are running 60 for refresh then it has no advantage over LCD. If you go to 120 then it has a definite advantage.

I ran 480p for SD programming on an XG135LC. I didn't have any problems with scan lines i.e. they didn't bother me. Where they visible? Yes, but they weren't distracting. Scott has theory that scan lines don't bother most people because we grew up with them. I played an Xbox with 480i into a PG9+ and enjoyed the experience. The scan lines were really visible, but I still enjoyed playing the games.

As for scaling, I thought DVDO and Lumagen had gaming modes on their scalers.
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post #14 of 22
11/30/09 at 12:02pm
Thread Starter 
Are the scanlines more easily seen on a projector than a RPTV? I never notice any on my 57" RPTV at 540p with 480p sources. And I sit less than 6 feet away from it. Are you saying LCDs also have zero lag at a 60 refresh rate? And don't gaming modes always have a negative effect on the overall image quality?
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post #15 of 22
11/30/09 at 12:08pm
Most front projectors are industrial units, and any EM focusing set will run circles around the consumer ES focusing based RP units.
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post #16 of 22
11/30/09 at 4:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

Most front projectors are industrial units, and any EM focusing set will run circles around the consumer ES focusing based RP units.


So which one is more likely to get burn-in? Is it really necessary to have an extremely dark room with a CRT projector? I have no problems seeing my CRT RPTV in my well lit room.
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post #17 of 22
11/30/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darien95 View Post

Are the scanlines more easily seen on a projector than a RPTV? I never notice any on my 57" RPTV at 540p with 480p sources.

540 vertical lines over 20 inches tall? try spreading them out over 48 inches and they will seperate, gauranteed. My screen is 52 ' tall and I can see 720P scan lines easilly from 4 feet away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darien95 View Post

So which one is more likely to get burn-in? Is it really necessary to have an extremely dark room with a CRT projector? I have no problems seeing my CRT RPTV in my well lit room.

Forget about RPTV. FP is shooting light 9 feet across the room. If the room isn't dark neither will the screen be. You can't project black, it's the absence of light. It's easy to not make light come out of a cabinet
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post #18 of 22
12/1/09 at 2:32pm
i have a Sony CRT HD playing in 1080i (xbox 360) for over 5 years

no lag at all

With over 5,000 hours of gaming.
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post #19 of 22
12/1/09 at 6:00pm
We all love our CRTs. I blow how good they are all out of proportion. But I had a customer for my 1271 today (The one I already sold) and he wanted to use it for
gaming on his Playstation 3. And being straight with him I told him its a cool
experience but I find I prefer to play on my much smaller flat screen. Its clear, its
bright and I think part of what it is is you just want to play games in a room with either
natural light or at least some light. Also I like being able to see my snacks and drinks.
So I suggested if he is a pure gamer he should consider an oversized monitor like mine...which is just 37"...or go larger. Or go with a digital so you can better keep the lights on. Now that I shielded the overhead lights in my theater with half cups, I do find watching shows with the lights on the quite tolerable.

Granted, I think the Wii might be the one exception where the big big screen would be highly desirable. Definitely seems fun. And its okay if you accidentally throw the nunchuck at my screen. No harm done.
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post #20 of 22
12/1/09 at 6:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ismik300 View Post

i have a Sony CRT HD playing in 1080i (xbox 360) for over 5 years

no lag at all

With over 5,000 hours of gaming.

What about burn-in? And what is the highest total number of hours you've spent playing the same game out of those 5,000 hours? I'm just wondering if you were to spend several hundred hours playing the same game over the life of the projector if you'd have burn-in from that game's static images. Not that it would be the only one you played on the projector, but if you clocked several hundred hours total with that game. And have you tried any 480i/p games?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomiccow View Post

We all love our CRTs. I blow how good they are all out of proportion. But I had a customer for my 1271 today (The one I already sold) and he wanted to use it for
gaming on his Playstation 3. And being straight with him I told him its a cool
experience but I find I prefer to play on my much smaller flat screen. Its clear, its
bright and I think part of what it is is you just want to play games in a room with either
natural light or at least some light. Also I like being able to see my snacks and drinks.
So I suggested if he is a pure gamer he should consider an oversized monitor like mine...which is just 37"...or go larger. Or go with a digital so you can better keep the lights on. Now that I shielded the overhead lights in my theater with half cups, I do find watching shows with the lights on the quite tolerable.

Why would you prefer playing games on a digital? (Or did you mean a 37" CRT?) Digitals will have some input lag and worse black levels. Are the games really more clear on your digital monitor than your CRT projector? As far as a digital monitor helping to see with the lights on, I have no problem seeing my CRT RPTV's screen in my somewhat bright room. It's only if a door is open and the sun shines in that it really becomes an issue. Was burn-in at all a part of your reason for not recommending a gaming projector?
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post #21 of 22
12/2/09 at 3:20am
No, not burn in. I just don't enjoy the experience as much playing on a big projected screen. Somehow its not as crisp. Bear in mind my projector until recently was a Sony 1271. I might have a higher opinion of gaming on my G70. My monitor is an LCD and I don't have any unpleasant lag or other issues. As I play with the lights on with the LCD I don't fret over black levels. With the CRT I play in the dark. My keyboard isnt illuminated, and my previous mouse wasn't as responsive as my Microsoft Blu Track.
So that may have factored. It just doesn't feel as easy to play.
I'd like to say, "Wow, you haven't gamed your game until you have played on a huge screen!" But I am happier playing in the bedroom.

The reason I suggested he might be happier with a digital is because I think its better to play with some light in the room. Digitals being brighter they aren't as affected by ambient light.
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post #22 of 22
12/2/09 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darien95 View Post

As far as a digital monitor helping to see with the lights on, I have no problem seeing my CRT RPTV's screen in my somewhat bright room. It's only if a door is open and the sun shines in that it really becomes an issue. Was burn-in at all a part of your reason for not recommending a gaming projector?

With front projection your viewing experience will improve the darker you can get the room. If you can have it pitch black you will have the best picture experience, as mentioned a few posts up by dranganm you can't compare the darkeness required in the room to rear projection tv's as a front projection CRT has no cabinet to help achieve black levels. While both are projection units the darkness required in the room varies substantially between front projection and rear projection.
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