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Best VP for Anime processing and scaling (i.e. non_standard aspect ratios)

post #1 of 16
11/26/09 at 8:37pm
Thread Starter 
So... its been a while since I last threaded here - at the time I bought the Vision HDQ and have been happy with it together with my Kuro 4280.

Now I am finally moving to a bigger space and am doing a large screen upgrade to a Kuro pro141 and am now weighing options on how best to feed it video signals. The old tv/HDQ is going into my second setup.

As far as Blu Ray is concerned it will be a direct feed, but on the dvd upscaling I am starting to think about the best setup.

Since I do watch a lot of anime.. I absolutely need a scaler with manual "over-ride" for custom screen stretching and something that will effectively deal with macroblocking and various framerates....

My first plasma was a Panasonic business plasma that had the manual scaler... but the kuros are sooooo much better pic wise IMO.

I don't think that any Blu-Ray DVD player (including Oppo and Denon) offer manual screen stretching nor does the pro141 so I beleive i need to get a new VP..... so the question to all you experts (bcs only the biggest image quality freaks will sit on this board ) is the following.. i guess (please correct me if I am wrong):

Lumagen Radiance XS, DVDO Edge or something else.........

Thanks in Advance to all and Happy Holidays

grrrrr double post..sorry
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post #2 of 16
11/27/09 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
Guys......nobody here deals with anime-related content?
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post #3 of 16
11/27/09 at 7:37pm
The Focus Enhancements CenterStage 1 (CS-1) and the CenterStage 2 (CS-2) will allow you to customize the video to stretch it anyway you see fit. I replaced my CS-1 with a Faroudja NRS recently, which has a much better comb filter than the CS-1 (which is definitely needed for LaserDisc), but the Faroudja doesn't allow customized stretching of the picture. See below for my problem with the Faroudja:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1197422

Anyway, if you are going to feed the CS-1 with s-video (so as to bypass the not-so-great comb filter on it), you can have mine for cheap.

TLK
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post #4 of 16
11/28/09 at 4:18am
jarac,

you'll find the best any-cadence detection for anime material with a DVDO processor like the Edge. While I don't watch very much anime, I have a few hundred japanese anime DVDs and the DVDO deinterlacing does a great a job on them. On the other hand DVDOs "hard" scaling engine tends to create slight halos around subtitles which I guess are standard when viewing anime material - here the Lumagen units are superior. Given the price difference between a Radiance XS and the Edge, I'd still recommend the later one - especially for anime.
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post #5 of 16
11/28/09 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

jarac,

you'll find the best any-cadence detection for anime material with a DVDO processor like the Edge. While I don't watch very much anime, I have a few hundred japanese anime DVDs and the DVDO deinterlacing does a great a job on them. On the other hand DVDOs "hard" scaling engine tends to create slight halos around subtitles which I guess are standard when viewing anime material - here the Lumagen units are superior. Given the price difference between a Radiance XS and the Edge, I'd still recommend the later one - especially for anime.


does DVDO advertise cadences for Anime movies?

wasn't the Realta the only one that advertised for those?

btw, how are those cadences transfereed to 24P / 60 Hz ?


Michael
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post #6 of 16
11/28/09 at 5:29am
Quote:


does DVDO advertise cadences for Anime movies?

they do: Arbitrary cadence detection (any-to-any) to detect non-standard cadences

Quote:


btw, how are those cadences transfereed to 24P / 60 Hz ?

some can be converted to 24p, some can't, but that won't chance with any other processor.
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post #7 of 16
11/28/09 at 9:32am
Is the problem here really aspect ratio control or deinterlacing? Why would anime shows be drawn in any aspect ratios other than 4:3 or 16:9? I don't understand why you would need custom stretching.

The bigger problem with anime is that it often uses non-standard cadences, which are difficult to deinterlace. But that has nothing to do with stretching the picture.
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post #8 of 16
11/29/09 at 12:29am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the feedback all.

The reason I want to stretch images is that I buy a lot of "bootleg" disk where the screen size is not standard and with a plasma I would like to try and avoid burn-in since sometime I watch a series as long as 8 hours at a time (don't ask me why...).

Also, I have a PS3, XBOX 360 and the Oppo blue ray player... so I would like to have each input ISF calibrated..... which I currently have on the Lumagen Vision HDQ... and I guess I trust the product....

That said..... I do think I can get a radiance XD for 2.5 on the market which is much cheaper than buying the new XS.... in my mind paying the extra or x3-4 times is OK for getting the best unit out there - which is what most people think the radiance series is.

Any views... not money related... why I should opt for the Edge or some other DVDO product.

thanks again
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post #9 of 16
11/29/09 at 12:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

jarac,

you'll find the best any-cadence detection for anime material with a DVDO processor like the Edge. While I don't watch very much anime, I have a few hundred japanese anime DVDs and the DVDO deinterlacing does a great a job on them. On the other hand DVDOs "hard" scaling engine tends to create slight halos around subtitles which I guess are standard when viewing anime material - here the Lumagen units are superior. Given the price difference between a Radiance XS and the Edge, I'd still recommend the later one - especially for anime.

Fudoh.. few hundred is not "a few" and I have probably double that

...can you explain why the is better "especially for anime"? thanks
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post #10 of 16
11/29/09 at 4:42am
Quote:


...can you explain why the is better "especially for anime"?

because - as said - if you watch a lot of anime, you ran into a lot of weird cadences. Realta and ABT have great recognition for those cadences. If you use a processor which can only successfully on certain cadences you might get combing errors on other cadences as those.
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post #11 of 16
11/30/09 at 6:20pm
Thread Starter 
Fudoh,

visited your site and its quite impressive.

I was wondering if you had a chance to use/test Lumagen equipment at all?
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post #12 of 16
12/1/09 at 12:19am
Quote:


I was wondering if you had a chance to use/test Lumagen equipment at all?

I'm doing a Radiance review right now. Will be finished this week, but will take a little while until an english version will be ready.
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post #13 of 16
12/1/09 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 
Fudoh... so any hints?
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post #14 of 16
12/5/09 at 9:23am
Thread Starter 
So I ended up ordering the Radiance XS from Sencore (other option was Edge because of size) - mostly due to Lumagen's better scaling and excellent customer support - once I have the system setup and calibrate I will post my comments - I am no expert but will post my "intuitive" opinions.

thanks all for comments
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post #15 of 16
2/7/11 at 2:13pm
Necroposting here, but I've had the same question recently. jarac, any report on your XS?

Or any thoughts in general on how a Radiance (XD) handles anime/animated content? How well does it "retain" edges?
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post #16 of 16
11/21/11 at 12:37am
I'm in the same boat as the original poster. I have stacks of anime DVDs and a new 1080p plasma (Panasonic VT30).

It would be great if someone could post some direct experience with a recent scalers. However, what would perhaps be more useful is to know whether I should prioritize cadence detection or video deinterlacing, in a scaler.

In other words, how is anime (particularly that produced between mid 90's and early 2000's) photographed? Do they ever move the cells or background plates between photographing individual fields?

Another issue is noise. The way a lot of DVDs were mastered unfortunately involved composite video somewhere in the signal path (hence the dot crawl and color fringe artifacts). Between this and crude DVD mastering (often single-layer), good noise reduction performance is a priority.

Finally, there's the issue of the actual scaling and detail enhancement. Ringing is going to be a lot more noticeable than on natural images.

My inclination is to go towards a Realta-based solution. However, the question of video deinterlacing remains the final obstacle to going down this path.
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