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SIM2 MICO50 LED Has Arrived - Page 19

post #541 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post

hmm. I really want a 14" 2.35 CIH screen.. Fascinated by the MIC050. What would you think about matching this with a silverstar screen that big to compensate for the lumens?

The Silverstar fabric tops out at around 59 to 60 inches in height, so you would not be able to go even 12 feet wide at 2.35 unless you were willing to have the manufacturer sell you a screen with two sections seamed together.
post #542 of 701
Hey Bland - where's your post about the Mico demo?

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts and comparisons to the Lumis.
post #543 of 701
Knowing Jeff he's probably on his third bottle of wine and 8th movie by now!
post #544 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkirby View Post

hmm. I really want a 14" 2.35 CIH screen.. Fascinated by the MIC050. What would you think about matching this with a silverstar screen that big to compensate for the lumens?

My laptop is 14" but not 2.35.
post #545 of 701
Sorry guys. The store was closed yesterday (surprised about that) BUT I'm off of work tomorrow and will go see it. They have it on a 123" (diag) 1.3 gain Firehawk.

Stay tuned!

Not 3 bottles. 3 glasses. The recession has changed my drinking habits. Cabernets instead of Bordeauxs!
post #546 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Is that not exactly what "no big drop" means? It clearly implies there is a small one.

You're feeling slighted... 'I noticed a SLIGHT drop', 10% is slight, our master of words has found a new definition for slight;-)... I provided an example of current performance.
post #547 of 701
Perhaps Runco could take some of the Planar efforts on board, as Planar claims 700 lumens out of the engine in its new 70" cube (actually it claims 700 for the cube). The cube did look brighter than some of the competition, despite its larger size, so I have no reason to believe the quoted figure is wildly exagerated.

The Sim2 doesn't have DCi colourspace yet, does it, Runco or was it DPI claims it does, so that might be a plus for the delta machine(s) to Stephan's colourlab.
post #548 of 701
Stephan, HeimKino on its latest cover refers to the Runco 750 as the best projector in the world. No mention, let alone pitting of the Sim2 against the Runco, but it is better than the Vivitek, previously reviewed.
post #549 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Stephan, HeimKino on its latest cover refers to the Runco 750 as the best projector in the world. No mention, let alone pitting of the Sim2 against the Runco, but it is better than the Vivitek, previously reviewed.

Donald, of course their claim "best projector in the world" is a little over the top, but they sure liked it.

They measured 460 lumens, which is pretty close to Jason's short throw number of around 450. The Ansi CR is a different story as they measured over 600:1 which is confirmed by a video lab. Their number was around 620:1 from what I remember.

Full Heimkino review (in german) is online here.

Again, numbers are interesting to hear, but certainly won't tell the whole story. My dealer should be back in the shop in about one hour or so, so I'll have to ask him then if there's any Sim2 news.
post #550 of 701
I'm going to see it in an hour or two... Anyone have any inquiries?
post #551 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'm going to see it in an hour or two... Anyone have any inquiries?

Sure would be nice to compare this to the Runco Q750!
post #552 of 701
So, the distributor put the review online, good as I would have mailed it to you upon request, but wouldn't have provided it publicly. 613:1 is their figure for ANSI contrast. Not bad, but not top notch, that would require 50% on top of that 600+ figure;-).

The output is 'gemessen im eco-mode', but the line below that 'Bildhelligkeit (bei 6500 Kelvin), indicates the figure is following their calibration, not just using a pre-set. They add that contrast was set to medium.
post #553 of 701
Spent 30 minutes with the MICO. It was uncalibrated per the store owner. I was able to play with the remote. Watched a DTS MA demo disc, Fifth Element, etc. The screen size was 9' wide (Firehawk 1.3 gain Microperf).

1. Huge... Almost the size of my giant Qualia. Big Motha!
2. Very quiet. Fan noise was imperceptible unless up close. It throws out some heat though but nothing worse than any bulb projector and likely less.
3. Picture quality looked very nice. Not better than bulb. I didn't know what to expect but the picture looked like 1 chip DLP
4. The Mico was not enough projector for this screen. Though I wouldn't say it looked dim, it lacked pop and low APL material was crushed. It was clear that the piece lacked lumen horse power.
5. Colors looked great and the picture was sharp (as you'd expect from a single chipper).


Overall, I wasn't that impressed. That said, it was hard to evaluate as it was under powered. It did not look better than all single chip DLPs I have seen (but not worse - except light output). My Qualia looked better. However, it is a first gen product and behaved like one.

What LED gives is convenience. No bulb, a single calibration, and quiet. It is still a DLP. Maybe future generations will give the inky blacks, but not this one. Fades to black were not as dark as my own projector (but I don't know how much calibration may've helped this or how good they are out of the box? I assume the rep tweaked something)??

For the high end, bulbs are still where it is at.
post #554 of 701
9' Wide Microperf IS too much screen for this thing.

However, a 7' wide non-microperfed Studiotek 130 is ideal.

In this case it was better than any bulb I have seen with the exception of the Xenons. It can do really pure white and its edge-to-edge brightness is cleaner than almost anything I have seen. CR is very, very good, allowing for some truly wonderful blacks at that size. So far, I would say it is an amazing unit for the dollar. Has some of the things I truly love about the Qualia which no other projector has come close to as of yet.
post #555 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

9' Wide Microperf IS too much screen for this thing.

However, a 7' wide non-microperfed Studiotek 130 is ideal.

In this case it was better than any bulb I have seen with the exception of the Xenons. It can do really pure white and its edge-to-edge brightness is cleaner than almost anything I have seen. CR is very, very good, allowing for some truly wonderful blacks at that size. So far, I would say it is an amazing unit for the dollar. Has some of the things I truly love about the Qualia which no other projector has come close to as of yet.

I thought different. For $24K, I didn't see value. It looked like a very good 1 chip DLP with the bonus of no bulbs, quiet, and 1 calibration. I thought the Qualia colors were better but the CR was poor (but you may've thought the CR was great on the Mico as your reference is the Qualia 004). Which would make sense for you. Compared to my Lumis (and my 5 years with a Qualia), the CR was poor.

The Mico colors looked a bit 'flouresced' on some clips (to be fair, it was said not to be calibrated). However, it did look very good overall.

I thing the next gen MICO will be much better. No question, this technology will replace bulbs.
post #556 of 701
Definitly sounds like you had a very uncalibrated unit to look at. What material were you looking at as well?

I ran through some animation, Wall-e to check blacks and CR and some test discs, Spears and Munsil to check real-world scenes and some basic test patterns. Had about 90 minutes or so of playing and going through menus etc.

For 9' wide screen, I think you were at the limit of its output. On a 7' wide it was just about right. Now, is it the Lumis? No. But you couldn't really get the Lumis to work on a 7' wide screen either. At that point a 9' wide screen (120" diagonal) would be about the minimum.
post #557 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

The screen size was 9' wide (Firehawk 1.3 gain Microperf).

I assume that was a 9' wide 16:9 screen and not a scope screen with an anamorphic lens?


About the 600:1 of the Runco mentioned earlier. Yes that isn't on the top, but it's way beyond anything we've seen from LCoS based projectors. I think Ekkehart measured the Mico at just over 500:1. I think even higher numbers (>=800:1) will only be found in 3-chip machines. But those come with other issues such as convergence.

I also think Ansi CR is not the only factor that contributes to good image quality, it's a mix of Ansi CR and on/off CR. But that's a discussion for another thread.

Spoke to my dealer, Sim2 apparently called while he was away. He hopes to get a definitive answer from them tomorrow.
post #558 of 701
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Spent 30 minutes with the MICO. It was uncalibrated per the store owner.

If the store was showing you this out of the box without any set up other than sizing and focus, you missed out. At the very least...it should be set to D65 (not the default setting)...the LTI and CTI filters need to be off ...it needs to be set to HDTV and a test disc run to set balance between brightness and contrast so the blacks are not crushed. If the content being viewed is HD, the best aspect setting is Pixel to Pixel. Color and tint adjustments might need to be pushed a few digits up or down on either side of 50 depending on room conditions. If the screen has a granular optical coating -- especially the older variety -- you might need to dial back the detail a few digits.
post #559 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

If the store was showing you this out of the box without any set up other than sizing and focus, you missed out. At the very least...it should be set to D65 (not the default setting)...the LTI and CTI filters need to be off ...it needs to be set to HDTV and a test disc run to set balance between brightness and contrast so the blacks are not crushed. If the content being viewed is HD, the best aspect setting is Pixel to Pixel. Color and tint adjustments might need to be pushed a few digits up or down on either side of 50 depending on room conditions. If the screen has a granular optical coating -- especially the older variety -- you might need to dial back the detail a few digits.

Perhaps. I'm not sure how the rep set it up. I have played with similar calibration settings on my Lumis as you mention above... they have little impact on the overall feel of what the projector shows... they are tweaks.

For me the bottom line was light output was just too low or a projector of this price (regardless of other pluses). Light output and blacks were the Achilles heal here. That said, I am sure it would be very nice calibrated but these two issues would still remain.

Beyond any improvement over bulb DLP, LED is about convenience (no bulb, single calibration, quiet). It was still a single chip DLP. Despite an ideal calibration, I could see what it was about (just like my Qualia, uncalibrated, offered a game changing image). It's a first gen... it'll improve and clearly this is the future.
post #560 of 701
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

The screen size was 9' wide (Firehawk 1.3 gain Microperf).

It would be too dim for a screen this size. Moreover you lose 10% of the light through the perforations, so that makes a bad situation worse. An image height of 54" or less and a screen gain of 1.3 gets lit up pretty well by the MICO.
post #561 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Fades to black were not as dark as my own projector

This is confusing. I was under the impression that the MICO faded all the way to absolute black. How could another projector beat that?
post #562 of 701
It fades to complete black only if the entire image is completely black. It can actually shut off the entire light engine and back on in the space of less than a frame.

Throw - Speed Racer on to the projector for a true sense of how good the image can be.

I agree with Jeff, this is a "game changer". However, I have a Qualia now and I can tell you, on the right size screen, this thing is really outstanding. It truly sounds like the unit you saw was not only calibrated incorrectly, but not shown in the proper environment. Will it light up the screen like the Lums? No. But neither should it. That is not what this is about. It is about:

Sharpness
Contrast
Color Purity
Quiet
Cool
Ability to a watch a full movie once a day for 48 years with no issues regarding light drop, calibration issues, changing a bulb, etc.

Is it the future, yes! Does it do everything the Lumis does now on a 14' wide scope screen - No. But eventually, hell yeah! (and in 3D!) ;-)
post #563 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

No. But eventually, hell yeah! (and in 3D!) ;-)

Please be more specific... do you know something we don't?

Also, why is it Thebland gets the impression that the Lumis is lower contrast? i thought the Mico had dynamic dimming and gamma compensation?
post #564 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

It fades to complete black only if the entire image is completely black.

I'm assuming it is a comparison of the way two projectors handle a fade to black. If the MICO fades to absolute black, I can see how another projector might match it, but I don't see how another projector can manage a fade to black that is darker than absolute black.
post #565 of 701
The rep must have set it up terribly or it is poor out of the box. It sounds like Peter and I saw different projectors.

I have no doubt that it can look great... Lumens are the real handicap here.

It will need a lot of light output for us big screen guys. My 14' wide 2.40 screen provides about 84 sg ft of viewing space for scope films. The 'too large' 9' wide screen provides 34 sq ft. in 2.40... and it was still too dim. They masked out the black bars in this store (horizontal masking - no anamorphic lens).
post #566 of 701
Jeff, was dynamic black turned on in the menu? I agree something was not right with this demo. I measure way over 600 calibrated (and consistent over the life of the projector) lumens from my unit, and while not a light cannon, it is no slouch either. The black level is also on par with my RS35, and naturally better in fades to black.
post #567 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Jeff, was dynamic black turned on in the menu? I agree something was not right with this demo. I measure way over 600 calibrated (and consistent over the life of the projector) lumens from my unit, and while not a light cannon, it is no slouch either. The black level is also on par with my RS35, and naturally better in fades to black.

The MICO50 I demoed on the 10th was so bright on a 100" diagonal 16X9 Firehawk that it seemed as watchable as a plasma screen in low track lighting. I had to ask to have the lights turned off, because the store owner and the SIM2 rep didn't even think of it or find it necessary.

Today, one of the two Runco dealers I talked with insisted the Runco LED was brighter than the MICO50.

I'll have a chance to demo the Runco soon.
post #568 of 701
I know nothing you don't. However, the great bird "Karnak" has whispered (if we are all old enough to get that reference, we are all too old!)
post #569 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

I know nothing you don't. However, the great bird "Karnak" has whispered (if we are all old enough to get that reference, we are all too old!)

Yeah, i don't get it -_-;
post #570 of 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

The rep must have set it up terribly or it is poor out of the box. It sounds like Peter and I saw different projectors.

I have no doubt that it can look great... Lumens are the real handicap here.

It will need a lot of light output for us big screen guys. My 14' wide 2.40 screen provides about 84 sg ft of viewing space for scope films. The 'too large' 9' wide screen provides 34 sq ft. in 2.40... and it was still too dim. They masked out the black bars in this store (horizontal masking - no anamorphic lens).

Jeff,

Your experience seems similar to my demo of the Mico50. It looked dim on an 8ft wide 16:9 screen and although there were positive aspects like those that you mention, IMHO, the example I saw was not worthy of it's £16,000 asking price. It seems that there are better units out there and the one I saw was a poorly set-up beta unit.

I am excited though, since LED is clearly the way of the future and higher lumen output machines will follow.

Sean
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