or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › LG CF181D, New SXRD-projector from LG
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

LG CF181D, New SXRD-projector from LG - Page 3

post #61 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Green72 View Post

Projectorpeople.com went from "ETA Feb 12" to "In stock" today. They don't ship to Canada, though.

It's not even showing up on North American LG sites so I'll try not to hold my breath.

I hope this at least means Art will get one for review soon.

Here it is on LG's site

http://www.lgcommercial.com/product/...ion=&category=
post #62 of 1266
This pj looks like the "one" for the price... Can't wait for the reviews to come out!
post #63 of 1266
Quote:

It looks like neither of the projectors have been calibrated before they video taped them, the 8500ub has a significant yellow shift in that demo, and the LG has blown out contrast resulting in blown out whites.

What am I most interested in is the sharpness of TEXT on this projector, since the one weakness of LCOS has generally been sharpness.
post #64 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

It looks like neither of the projectors have been calibrated before they video taped them, the 8500ub has a significant yellow shift in that demo, and the LG has blown out contrast resulting in blown out whites.

What am I most interested in is the sharpness of TEXT on this projector, since the one weakness of LCOS has generally been sharpness.


The blown out white is most likely due to the camera. Cameras severely lack in dynamic range compared to the human eye. The only way you can really capture a projected mixed contrast image as accurately as the eye sees is to purposely miscalibrate the projector by lowering the contrast/white level WAY down while raising the brightness/black level way up and upping the saturation to compensate. That is the only way to accurately take a picture or video of both highlight and dark detail within the same images. Otherwise you have to choose to expose for highlight detail, crushing the dark detail or expose for the dark detail, blowing out the highlights.

I think those video demos for comparing projectors are pretty much worthless.
post #65 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

Otherwise you have to choose to expose for highlight detail, crushing the dark detail or expose for the dark detail, blowing out the highlights.

Obviously we're not talking about calibrating it in a normal viewing manner, since they first had to process it through a camera. All cameras have differences. The video shown on the projector originally came from a camera. We are talking Camera > PJ > Camera > Viewer. Of course not expecting a perfect image, but it can always be better. The brightness of the LG was too high, they needed to get all the PJ's into a similar brightness, that would have been step 1. This is easy to do with post-processing of the video. You cannot compare (2) projectors of varying brightness over an LCD monitor, well let's be real, you cannot compare 2 projectors over an LCD monitor at all, so it's just for fun...

That said, forget trying to get the maximum contrast, we are all viewing this over a web site on our LCD monitors in ambient light, contrast was not the most important thing in this situation (on/off contrast somewhat, but not ANSI). More importantly was colors and brightness. Still there is a yellow shift and it does not look like they made enough effort. There are ways to at least improve the visible image taken from a camera, regardless of what our perceived contrast is after the processing takes place.
post #66 of 1266
LOL, look at the regular 1080 (not ub) vs the 8500 in that demo, notice Red shift vs Yellow shift, truely looks like they filmed these projectors with out of the box settings.
Even funnier, look at the NEC np901w vs any of the other PJ's, haha nice calibration job they did.

http://www.hometheaterpeople.com/pro...ideo-demos.asp
post #67 of 1266
Hey guys!

Just got done setting up my new LG CF181D and got to spend some (but not nearly enough) time with it. I threw in a Disney Bluray "College Road Trip".

I have to say, I am amazed at the picture. Keep in mind, my only real frame of reference is my old Panny PT-AE700U. This one is so vibrant and sharp I just can't believe it. I really didn;t get a chance to do any tweaking. I do know that LOW lamp mode was the default out of the box, and it is PLENTY bright enough for my 124" screen. I even started off with some low level ambient light and that was not a problem at all.

I also flipped through a little Dish Network HD, which again was the best I have seen it.

One negative that I notes was during a scene on the College Road Trip movie, where the characters are on a bus, looking out the bus windows, it was a quickly panning scene (as the bus was moving)...this must have confused the 120Hz Tru-Motion, because the action in the foreground of the shot seemed unstable...maybe this is an unresolved issue that was pointed out in the Proj. Central review. Tru-Motioin was set to the low setting. The vast majority of the material I watched benefited from the Tru-motion.

I will take a closer look tomorrow and maybe tweak some of the settings, as well as try standard DVD upconverted to 1080p and see how that looks.

I wish I had something more current than the Panny 700 to compare this to, so it would be more apples to apples. I'd love to see it side-by-side with the Panny 4000 & Epson 8500U anad maybe the BenQ W6000.

More thoughts to come soon!!

The pictures I attached show the packaging, the unit (with the Panny 700 below it for size comparison), and a couple of still shots from the movie, which obviously do not do it justice.

Take Care!
Kevro
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #68 of 1266
Thanks for the update Kevro. Ive been pathetically awaiting your post since you mentioned you ordered the LG. I think I am about to pull the trigger on this one as well. I actually bought the BenQ W6000 but returned it after about 2 weeks because I apparently am sensitive to RBE. Based on the PJ Central review it seemed that the LG had comparable brightness (I like to watch sports with some ambient light even though I have a light controlled room). How long is your throw distance?
post #69 of 1266
I'm throwing a 124" image at 19 feet. There is still plenty of zoom in both directions if I ever wanted to resize.

I really like how vibrant this thing is...Granted, brand new lamps always tend to have that "wow" factor, but there is enough brightness here that even as the lamp dims over time, I'm pretty sure I'll be fine.

One thing to note, this LG uses a 220W lamp. My old Panny 700 used a 130W lamp. The Panny 4000 uses 170W, Epson 8500U uses 200W. The BenQ W6000 uses a 280W lamp!!! I'll bet that gets pretty warm!! ...not to mention, it'll use a fair amount mroe electricity.

Take Care!
post #70 of 1266
Really interested in this projector - I have a JVC RS1 right now on a 9' wide Dalite High Power (~ 2.0 gain) with good brightness. I'm looking to go 11-12' wide with an acoustically transparent (no gain) screen. Hoping this will give me the brightness I need because I dont want to switch away from LCOS....

Can you see if you can feed 24Hz material into the projector and see if it syncs to 120Hz? (ie repeat each frame 5 times).

Thanks!
post #71 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevro_86 View Post

I'm throwing a 124" image at 19 feet. There is still plenty of zoom in both directions if I ever wanted to resize.

I really like how vibrant this thing is...Granted, brand new lamps always tend to have that "wow" factor, but there is enough brightness here that even as the lamp dims over time, I'm pretty sure I'll be fine.

One thing to note, this LG uses a 220W lamp. My old Panny 700 used a 130W lamp. The Panny 4000 uses 170W, Epson 8500U uses 200W. The BenQ W6000 uses a 280W lamp!!! I'll bet that gets pretty warm!! ...not to mention, it'll use a fair amount mroe electricity.

Take Care!

I am really torn between this projector and the Panny 4000. For placement in my room this one would be perfect because it could be put behind a false wall instead of hanging from the ceiling. The Panny 4000 I like for the easy changeable 16:9 vs 2.35:1 formats. If I go with the LG my throw distance will be toward the higher end of the range instead of in the middle as Kevro has, I could fix this with a larger screen but for 16:9 the larger screen ends up being really too tall for the seating in the room. The screenshots are interesting and they look like widescreen images, do you have masking for your 124" screen ? I would be interested in seeing a 16:9 sporting event screen shot with a small amount of ambient lights on.

Here is my +/_ for both

LG +
brightness - like to watch sports with a few lights dimmed in the room
throw distance - can keep from mounting from the ceiling
technology - Lcos seems like better way to project an image to me

LG -
cost, $500 more than Panny (some savings may come back with lower cost bulb and longer bulb life ?)
not as flexible for 2.35 constant height setup
not proven, not many units in the field

Panny 4000 +
cost
Zoom preset for 2.35
proven with lots of great reviews and very few issues in the field

Panny 4000 -
Bulb life and cost
have to hang from ceiling for my setup and if using the presets for changing format it will need to hang fairly low (lens must be below the top of the screen)
potential for dust problems


From day to day I change my mind on these two projectors, if anyone can give more insite that will help me decide I would appreciate it.
post #72 of 1266
kromkamp:

In regards to : "Can you see if you can feed 24Hz material into the projector and see if it syncs to 120Hz? (ie repeat each frame 5 times)."

...I'd love to try this for you, but you will have to explain to me exactly how to do this. i.e. is it some setting on the PS3 that I need to change???

groveb:

I don't use any masking. My 124" screen is a home made out of drywall that I framed in wood trim wrapped in black velvet and painted with a concoction from someone on AVSforum Screen DIY forum. It is very white. The screenshots were in a dark room taken without a flash. (The movie is 2.40:1 aspect ratio).

Tonight I plan on watching the Cavs (hopefully beat) the Magic on TNT-HD. I'll get a couple shots of that and a couple from whatever ESPN may have on.
post #73 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevro_86 View Post

kromkamp:

In regards to : "Can you see if you can feed 24Hz material into the projector and see if it syncs to 120Hz? (ie repeat each frame 5 times)."

This is my biggest question as well. I'm less concerned about the frame interpolation feature glitches (I have yet to see a system where this doesn't look awful to me) and more interested in what happens with a 24Hz source.

The PS3 has an option somewhere in the System menu (Disc Playback, or something like that?) where you can set it.

How does the convergence look? Any pixel problems?

Thanks so much for your postings! I had the projector in my cart, but haven't brought myself to click "buy" yet. Soon, I hope
post #74 of 1266
Yeah look in the BluRay/DVD settings on the PS3 - there is a setting that refers to 24Hz or 24p or something like that.

Hopefully the projector has a menu that shows what the video source is that it is refreshing to, including the frame rate, that you can confirm it is syncing to 24Hz.
post #75 of 1266
24Hz is 24fps. On the PS3 it's under the Video Settings/ BD 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI). Turn it to on.
post #76 of 1266
Thanks for the heads up on the 24p/24hz PS3 setting. I will definitely try that out tonight.

Regarding convergence: After focusing this baby, I sat there with my jaw dropped the whole time over the vibrancy and clarity of the picture. I even got a few feet away and while I could then see the pixel structure, I did not notice any misalignment of the panels or any convergence issues, which WAS a slight concern of mine with LCD/LCOS in general. (My Panny was off a tad and it always bugged me, even though at normal viewing distance, it was negligible.)

I also did not see any "dead" pixels, but I honestly wasn't looking too hard. I will scrutinize this much closer tonight and let you know what I find.

By the way, does anyone know why convergence on projectors cannot be adjusted? Hopefully most won't need it, but it sure would be nice to have that option, and could eliminate on of the advantages that single-chip DLP has always had over 3-chip LCD.

~Kevro
post #77 of 1266
Standard DVD playback was faulted by the one professional reviewer who posted a review on a pre-prodction LG. Can someone post their results regarding what standard DVD's look like now, maybe the issue has been fixed on production units?

Thank you.
post #78 of 1266
Also curious how quiet the fan is? With the brightness and the size of the unit I'm guessing its not the quietest.
post #79 of 1266
If anybody in the Seattle area gets one of these and wants to compare it to a Panasonic AE4000, I could provide the Panasonic (and the dark walled room, screen, etc.)

--Darin
post #80 of 1266
1) 24p/24hz: I put in "Blood Diamond" on blu-ray and set the PS3 to force 1080/24p to the LG CF181D. I can say that I saw some, but not many artifacts & picture instability when Tru-Motion was on. It did add some of the live video look, but I did not find it objectionable. When you say "does it sync the 24p to 120hz", I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I know that it will do tru-motion (120hz) with 24p...some may prefer the results, some may not. I will dig deeper on this over the weekend!

2) I have attached 3 screenshots from a not too bright scener from "UP". One is with all lights off, one is with them on, but dimmed, and one is with the lights basically all on, which would not reflect actual viewing situation. The upper left & right corners are washed out due to the lights that are 12" away, but the picture is still watchable. the camera I have used is a Canon SD-870IS on a tripod. Sorry for theeystone effect, as I had to mount the cam low and aim up. While these pics give a rough idea, they really pale in comparison to actually being there! I also bumped up the res of the pics to 2MP.

3) I checked pixel alignment and am happy to report that it is spot on. If I had the ability to tweak it, I wouldn'y!

4) I have not witnessed any dead or otherwise malfunctioning pictures.

5) I tried to do the standard DVD test, playing "Pearl Harbor" upscaled from the PS3...problem is it came thru with the expected letterboxing on the top & bottom, AS WELL AS on the SIDES!!! I tried to figure out what setting on the PS3 or projector would fis this, but I ran out of time and will have to check it tomorrow. I will say, even with the black bars on all 4 sides, the picture itself was quite nice, with no glitches in the limited time I watched. More to follow on this.

6) Fan noise: I am happy to report that the fan noise, while audible, is negligible. I hear it only when the soundtrack is silent for whatever reason, or when changing inputs. It is definitely quieter and at a more easy on the ears frequency than my Panny 700. I am more than happy with the fan on this thing!

7) The basketball game looked great on TNT-HD and the Cavs won!!

8) After spending a few hours total now with this, I am extremely happy. It;s not perfect, but what is??? The Tru-motion can create problems at times, but for the most part, does its job. Sometimes, even when it's doing its job properly, some may not prefer the effect. DVD playback I think will be fine once I figure out how to display it correctly.

Sorry for the long post. I know how these "sight-unseen" purchases can be tough, and want to help out all I can.

More to come!!!
kev
LL
LL
LL
post #81 of 1266
Line 4 should have read no dead or malfunctioning PIXELS.
post #82 of 1266
Here's another screenshot from "Up" blu-ray with lights off.
LL
post #83 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by groveb View Post

I am really torn between this projector and the Panny 4000.

Panny's are good but tend to project a softer image than many projectors. This does not matter as much when watching movies as it does for using an HTPC, and can also matter a little when viewing 1080p scenery. I prefer a sharper image so as of now am only considering the Epson 8500ub vs the LG CF181D.

I currently own the Mitsubishi hc3800 which is EXTREMELY sharp (almost too sharp), but I have a few issues with it. My main issue is with the DLP hc3800 is RBE (rainbow effect), no lens shift (I can workaround this, but stll annoying), a large offset so I cannot use a Da-Lite high power screen with it, and it seems to not handle image noise that well.
post #84 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevro_86 View Post

1) 24p/24hz: I put in "Blood Diamond" on blu-ray and set the PS3 to force 1080/24p to the LG CF181D.

Thanks for the info, we appreciate it greatly because many of us here are in the dark with info for this projector.

Can you take some closeups of the menu text as well as other smaller text that is very crisp (find some real crisp small text), and post those. LCOS is known to have a slightly softer image than LCD, and quite a bit softer than DLP. That said, this projector may be sharper than JVC and Sony LCOS. Even if you take a picture it might be almost impossible to tell, but the softness of LCOS is about the only thing holding me back on this thing.

How about without Trumotion on? Does 24p look as smooth or smoother than 60? Are there any artifacts in regular 24p mode (without tru motion)?
post #85 of 1266
kevro,

When Evan Powell at Projector Central did his review of the LG 181 on a pre-production unit he had this to say about watching standard DVD's: "When switching to standard definition DVDs, the CF181D's limitations in black level become more apparent. In the opening scenes of Get Shorty on DVD, John Travolta's black coat and shirt are not as black as we'd like to see, and dark scenes have some muddiness that is not there in HD material. Shadow detail is lacking.

In most average scenes with HD sources, its picture quality is as good as it gets in this price range, especially in terms of apparent sharpness and three-dimensionality. With HD material, its weakness in black level only shows up when the scene is black or very dark, but for many users this will be a limitation that is easy to overlook. With standard DVDs, the black level limitations are more apparent. So for those who plan to watch a lot of SD DVDs from their library, the CF181D might not be the best choice."

I'm curious to hear if the actual production units have improved on standard DVD rendering and I wonder if Evan's testing was allowing the LG to do the upscaling rather than something like the an Oppo 83 DVD player?

We have a large collection of standard DVD's that we like to watch and continue to get them fom Netflix as well.

Very interested to hear about your experience with standard DVD's, what size screen do yo have?

Thank you.
post #86 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Thanks for the info, we appreciate it greatly because many of us here are in the dark with info for this projector.

How about without Trumotion on? Does 24p look as smooth or smoother than 60? Are there any artifacts in regular 24p mode (without tru motion)?

I'd like to echo the "Thanks" and the request for how things look with the tru motion turned off?

When tru motion is on, you mentioned an "unstable" picture and artifacts. I've seen artifacts in fast moving scenes on my 120Hz LCD sets (Phillips and Samsung) when their frame interpolation settings are active. Could you elaborate on the "unstable" aspect? (not sure how to interpret that). Also, how frequently would you say that you notice this? (1 minute out of a 90 minute movie? every 30 seconds?)

Thanks again. Its great that someone finally has one of these inhand!
post #87 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevro_86 View Post

1) 24p/24hz: I put in "Blood Diamond" on blu-ray and set the PS3 to force 1080/24p to the LG CF181D. I can say that I saw some, but not many artifacts & picture instability when Tru-Motion was on. It did add some of the live video look, but I did not find it objectionable. When you say "does it sync the 24p to 120hz", I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I know that it will do tru-motion (120hz) with 24p...some may prefer the results, some may not. I will dig deeper on this over the weekend!

Thanks for the test. Can you try it with the trumotion off? in this case hopefully it will just show each 24Hz frame 5 times (24*5=120) rather than interpolating 4 new frames.

all i meant with does it sync is does the projector even want to display a 24hz signal and it seems it does, at least with trumotion on.

Thanks again!
post #88 of 1266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Picture View Post

kevro,

When Evan Powell at Projector Central did his review of the LG 181 on a pre-production unit he had this to say about watching standard DVD's: "When switching to standard definition DVDs, the CF181D's limitations in black level become more apparent. In the opening scenes of Get Shorty on DVD, John Travolta's black coat and shirt are not as black as we'd like to see, and dark scenes have some muddiness that is not there in HD material. Shadow detail is lacking.

In most average scenes with HD sources, its picture quality is as good as it gets in this price range, especially in terms of apparent sharpness and three-dimensionality. With HD material, its weakness in black level only shows up when the scene is black or very dark, but for many users this will be a limitation that is easy to overlook. With standard DVDs, the black level limitations are more apparent. So for those who plan to watch a lot of SD DVDs from their library, the CF181D might not be the best choice."

I'm curious to hear if the actual production units have improved on standard DVD rendering and I wonder if Evan's testing was allowing the LG to do the upscaling rather than something like the an Oppo 83 DVD player?

We have a large collection of standard DVD's that we like to watch and continue to get them fom Netflix as well.

Very interested to hear about your experience with standard DVD's, what size screen do yo have?

Thank you.

I think this is nonsense, it either has good black levels or it doesn't. The black levels of the PJ will be the same for HD or SD. Another PC review that must be taken with a grain of salt.
post #89 of 1266
FYI, Art from ProjectorReviews.com posted on his blog on 2/10 that he received the CF181D and will have a review posted by late next week.
post #90 of 1266
That's great that Projector Reviews will be posting a review soon. I'm also anxious for a few people on this forum to pick up a CF181D so we can compare notes.

1080/24P without frame interpolation:
I had a chance to take a closer look at 1080/24p WITHOUT Tru-Motion. Everything was basically perfect except for that one scene in College Road Trip when they are on the moving bus. This is the same area I noticed the biggest problem with the Tru-Motion as well. I don't know if this is a weakness of the projector, the PS3, or the blu-ray disc itself. I didn't see any problems anywhere else.

Regular old DVD:
Spent a little more time with standard DVD. In an earlier post I mentioned that I had letterboxing on all 4 sides when watching a 1.78:1 DVD. I found this problem to be that I had the PS3 set to DOUBLE upconversion (whatever that means). When I changed it to NORMAL, the screen was filled. Black levels appear to be equal to blu-ray. Other than the obvious reduced resolution & clarity, I have no issues with standard DVD, bit it's still pretty early on with few hours logged...so if anything unusual pops up...I'll be sure to post it here.

Text Clarity/Convergence:
I got a close-up look at some of the PS3 menu text. To me it looks crystal clear even when only a few feet away. Now, if you get right up on it...like about a foot or so, and start micro-analyzing it, it is not pixel perfect. I have a couple macro pics of this text that I will post shortly.

Kev
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › LG CF181D, New SXRD-projector from LG