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Have HD picture qualities improved at all?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I recently moved from Orlando to Miami. In Orlando I had brighthouse digital cable and was really happy with it other than the HD lineup. It was slowly catching up to satelite's HD lineup but it was still pretty far. The quality on the other hand was (I know now) really good. There was a little bit of loss in quality during fast movements, but all in all it was close to OTA quality and I was always wowed by HD programs.

Fast forward to now, in Miami, in a high rise condo downtown, and the only service available in the building is called primecast and in my area they use Dish network. Finally got it installed last week and I'm not too happy. At first I was loving it, only because I had gone 4 months without HD, but I started to notice how bad the quality gets when there's even the slightest movement. When the image is still and close up the detail is amazing, everything you'd expect from HD. But when there's fast movement, flashing lights, lots of stuff going on, the quality goes to crap. Pixelation, blocks whatever you want to call it, completely ruin the picture.

I remember watching HD concerts on brighthouse and being blown away by the picture, then watching them on dish now and seeing a blocky pixelated mess. So after searching on the Internet I learned how Dish and DirecTV have compressed HD in order to get more channels, and HD lite.

The thing is, a lot of these articles and forum posts I found are pretty dated so I wanted to get the scoop on how things are now. I know fios has the best HD PQ for sure, but in South Florida there's no chance in hell of getting fios. So other than that, which HD programming service has the best PQ? What bitrates are the major cable/sat companies broadcasting their HD channels in today? Have any of them improved at all? Are there any signs of future improvements in HD quality? And finally, would it be possible to get, for example, comcast to serve my building, how would I go about trying to do that?

Thanks!
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ88 View Post

Are there any signs of future improvements in HD quality?

Not a chance. Broadcast HD will only get worse, not better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ88 View Post

And finally, would it be possible to get, for example, comcast to serve my building, how would I go about trying to do that?

Your building has contracted with their current provider. Any attempts to get that to change are most likely a waste of your time.
post #3 of 11
Directv no longer uses HDLite and they use MPEG4 compression which allows a tighter compression to get the same PQ with less bandwidth. In the past when they had limited bandwidth they did things like that to get more channels on but PQ did suffer.

Dish should be doing something similar, are you sure you're getting HD? Resolution outputs set right, etc...
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjones73 View Post

Directv no longer uses HDLite and they use MPEG4 compression which allows a tighter compression to get the same PQ with less bandwidth. In the past when they had limited bandwidth they did things like that to get more channels on but PQ did suffer.

Dish should be doing something similar, are you sure you're getting HD? Resolution outputs set right, etc...

Yup, deifinitely have everything set up right. Using HDMI have 1080i selected in HDTV setup, running on a Kuro Elite with calibrated isf modes, and got a 80-88 signal level.

I also read about directv's mpeg4 compression and was wondering if it would get PQ closer to what I was seeing with cable, but I'm not sure if dish uses it on all it's HD channels or how they have it set up exactly.
post #5 of 11
Have you tried to get OTA signals!!

If that is possible you will have a good source to compare!!
post #6 of 11
Of the channels you get via satellite, is the problem worse on satellite/cable networks or local channels? Or are they equally bad?
post #7 of 11
i had this same problem a few years ago with an apartment complex i was living in. they were contracted with dish network, but only offered 30 channels, no HD. i spent days trying to get them to let me have a cable company come to my apartment, but they wouldn't allow it. so all i can say is good luck... maybe get on the management and call and bother them every day, maybe that will get them to change.
post #8 of 11
Recall some posts a few years back from someone on the Orlando Brighthouse cable system. They mentioned someone measured nearly ~1920X1080 (resolvable) from HDNet's Saturday am test pattern . Most AVSers have reported only about 1300--1400 lines maximum horizontal resolution per HD picture width. One poster doesn't make a survey, but the Brighthouse measurement suggests it was piping out exceptionally good video in Orlando at least. (Of course, a head end could maximize just one channel.)

Frequent blocking artifacts with motion suggest the signal source has a minimized bit rate. Dish's MPEG4, AFAIK, isn't getting that kind of criticism from direct DBS users, so perhaps Primecast is tinkering with signals. [Edit: Obviously, with the right window or balcony site, you could run your own E*/D* dish.]

Here, in NYC, I rarely see motion (or static) blocking artifacts from TWC (and briefly RCN) for a decade on either a CRT RPTV or now a Panasonic 1080p plasma. BTW, using an old DVR-captured HDNet test pattern, I found that YPbPr to my plasma from a 8300HD STB delivered slightly better horiz. rez than HDMI, so I use the HDMI only for a Blu-ray hookup.

Overall, while both pro and consumer gear has steadily improved, it seems PQ to the home has grown worse as more channels (or subchannels) are squeezed into limited bandwidths. Verizon's FIOS (fiber to the home) may be the exception. Production with new equipment can fuzz up PQ, too, as the switch from 35mm capture for CIS:Miami to the Red One digital camera shows. This week's episode was so heavily filtered at the camera (or DI processing) that I decided not to watch the series any more. Theoretically, digital capture, with one less intermediate processing stage, could have made CSI Miami look better. -- John
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCbridge View Post

Have you tried to get OTA signals!!

If that is possible you will have a good source to compare!!

Yes, I do get OTA signals and those channels look great, no complaints on those channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Of the channels you get via satellite, is the problem worse on satellite/cable networks or local channels? Or are they equally bad?

All the channels have the same problem, some look a little better than others, but they all have the blocks/pixelation problems during movement. Even the local channels that have the HD logo on the info bar, but go up a channel to the OTA version and it's perfect.
post #10 of 11
I'm having the exact same problem with my TV. I have a Panny 50PZ800U. I live in downtown Miami in a high rise that has a contract with Dish. My HD channels are very noisy and it's almost unbearable at this point.

Check out my last post and pictures of my HD TV with regards to my situation here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17714274
post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ88 View Post

But when there's fast movement, flashing lights, lots of stuff going on, the quality goes to crap. Pixelation, blocks whatever you want to call it, completely ruin the picture.

Other than maybe sports on CBS, everything is exactly the way you describe it here OTA.

If your OTA doesn't look that bad yet, it most likely will in time.
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