Official BIC Venturi Thread - Page 4

It's true. I did tinker around with the DV62si crossovers forever. It bothered me that I had an otherwise clear sounding speaker but the tonal balance wasn't correct. I knew I could do better. Ed had one point correct that BIC configured the speaker to impress with it's tweeter's high output for home theater purposes. Unfortunately I was using them not for HT but for critical 2 channel music listening. The high frequency output simply made the speakers painful to listen to for any extended period.

The tinkering is over and I now have a speaker that is musical in every aspect. This is what Ed attempted to do. BIC could have done the same. It would have added to the total cost as my mod uses higher quality components, not the price point junk BIC installs. The results are definitely worth it IMO.

While it's true that speakers sound different in different rooms one fact can't be denied. Better sounding speakers always sound better no matter what room you have. This is why higher end speakers are what they are and cost what they cost.

Also about the graphs I posted. I clearly stated those graphs are NOT the actual response of the speakers and that they are affected by microphone and sound card response. The comparison is still valid though. To tell you the truth, the graphs don't really tell the story. The actual difference in tonal balance and sound quality during listening is night and day. Much more drastic than those graphs show. I was surprised when they didn't show a whole lot of difference.

Tonal balance can be fine tuned and corrected with an EQ far more quickly and likely with a better result. Take the MCACC EQ in my Pioneer receiver. I managed to not only get a marvelous sound out of the BIC Venturi speakers but also managed to sound-match them to a pair of Optimus LX-5 II speakers.

The pans from around the room are fantastic. The most recent awesome experience with panning was with the movie "Drag Me To Hell" in the "seance" scene where the camera spins around to the different faces at the table. The VOICES spin around the different speakers! It's a fantastic surround demo to test how well your system's speakers are matched. If the voice were to pan from the rear right to the front right and sound "different", you would spot it right away, mostly because it's the human voice where human hearing is mostly sensitively tuned.

After successfully matching different brands of speakers, I'm of the opinion that speakers should be matched up based on the material the drivers are made of. The BIC Venturi's and Optimus LX-5 II's are all polypropylene drivers. Yes, there was some EQ work that needed to be done but afterwards the results were very well blended.

I'm beyond satisfied with the results and I'm convinced that (unless I'm upgrading to a high powered amp), the Ed Frias passive crossover wasn't going to add anything to the sound quality.

Now, "IF" I were to consider a strong amplifier of 125-watts+ of clean power, then I would consider the Ed Frias crossover ONLY if the inductors are of superior quality to the BIC inductors. That is the ONLY reason to change out crossover components. Additional wattage causes inductors to drift off of their intended frequency as well as distort the sound.

As higher power amps are used, you will have better sound and less distortion from having used superior parts in passive crossovers. Now, I'm not saying Ed Frias' crossover is without use! But we need to remember, for most standard A/V receivers using 50-watt amps (or less) for each channel, it's simply not making an audible difference to use the Ed Frias crossover over the stock EQ when applying the digital equalizer for taste.

So, please, don't take my posts personally. I very nearly bought speakers from Ed Frias but then after doing additional research and realizing my amplifier of choice simply wasn't using much wattage, I realized that the crossover wasn't going to be an issue for me. Right now these speakers are sounding spectacular for me and I have no complaints at all.

For $99 each, these are beyond a great buy. And to think this speaker and it's design have gone unchanged for 10 YEARS! That tells you that BIC knows it has a speaker of such quality that it's virtually impossible to re-engineer a new design that tops it for the money. The reason these can sound so great yet cost so little is probably because it's a design that's been unchanged for 10 years. BIC likely has widdled the production costs of these down to the point where they can produce them as designed for next to nothing, but to our gain, they are cheap and sound great. Most other manufacturers keep changing designs, altering parts to skirt costs and end up producing WORSE speakers today than 10 years ago, (see Infinity & Polk who cut quality to reduce costs) while the BIC Venturi lineup are the same quality as the time they were heralded by many reviewers 10 years ago.

I highly recommend people risk the tiny $99 cost for the DV62CLR-S and $150 for a pair of DV62si bookshelves. They are fantastic.

My 3 vertically mounted DV62CLR-S speakers setup in an MTM array to limit vertical tweeter dispersion along with my choice of Optimus LX-5 II's with their dipole tweeter for the rears have ended up FAR surpassing anything I hear at the local theater or on sale at the local Frys electronics store.

One thing we both can agree on is the BICs aren't perfect (what speaker is). You are happy with using your EQ. I don't have a fancy digital EQ. I do have a 10 band analog EQ (and a high powered amp and preamp) . Once I finished my mod I disconnected the EQ and it packed away. It sounds so nice I don't even use the tone controls on the preamp. It's a great feeling knowing you don't need an EQ.

Each sound system, no matter which kind, even the most expensive, is producing sound in a 'distorted' manner which is not sound made from a true source. you follow the chain of how most recordings are handled, you quickly figure out that there is no way anything coming from speakers is true to life.

Look at a recording from the original sources, fed thru a mixer and then post-produced and balanced, then finally is pressed to playback on your system. Then follow the tortured path it makes to the final sound waves your speakers make. Even if you actually did have a high-end digital active crossover-based speaker system, only the truest, best handled sources will sound audibly 'better' but you STILL have distortion, no matter how well things are handled from the recording to the playback.

The lowest distortion sound you can get is a binaural recording that goes straight from a dummyhead's ears to the microphone to the A/D converter. Then you play it back with earbud headphones. No other recording sounds as 'real life'.

I originally posted this question over at the parts-express forum (new to forums), threw searching i found this thread here and figured i would post the same here. Nothing wrong with the PE forum, very helpful and knowledgeable group, especially for DIY.



--Below is copied directly rather than re-typing--
Hello,

New to this forum, and wanted to introduce myself and ask a couple questions. My name is Cole James, nice to meet you all.

I do realize this forum is more orientated toward the DIY aspect of speaker building, but i am currently not in a position to build anything (lack of tools). From what i have seen this forum seems to be the most civil to new members, and also seems to have the most knowledge. I have been reading and lurking for a couple months, on this forum and some others, ultimately I landed here to ask some basic questions; so here goes.

Room info; roughly 15' wide x 18' long, listening position is about 15'. Will be used primarily for movies (DVD) and secondary for music (CD) note: all over the place on music, I am not particular.

Equipment info: older kenwood 5.1 receiver, older Sony DLP 42"? TV and older Sony up-converting DVD player.

As not in a position to currently build anything, I was looking for some recommendations for a fairly budget $300 - $500, Left/Center/Right/2 subs.
I was looking at the 3x BiC America DV62CLR-S PE part # 303-412 and 2x Dayton SUB-80 PE part # 300-631. or 4x (they come in pairs) Polk Audio Monitor 40's from another Internet retailer on sale and 2x Dayton SUB-80. I would just use a 40 turned horizontal for the Center and have an extra. I am particular to the front 3 speakers matching and only have room for a 8" tall center.

The reason for the 2 subs is to double as stands for the Left/Right speakers, and are limited to 12" wide max, the Dayton's are 11" which are ideal.

From what I have seen and read on this forum, I am definitely not anywhere close to even being able to understand less than 1/4 of all the info, but feel comfortable enough to post some very basic questions and not get run out of here.

Of course over time I would expect all my equipment, knowledge and the ability to build (and enjoy) some members designs. At the moment i just want to be able to watch and listen to a DVD from something just a tad better than the TV speakers.

I appreciate all feedback (positive or negative), suggestions and any general knowledge.

Thank You
CJ

note: I have read some information on the BiC's crossovers being altered/modified by EFE with mixed reviews.

using subs as speaker stands? not the best idea if you also plan to use them as subs

I guess this seems to be the general feeling toward this. I would not just set speakers on top of them and hope for the best, they would be attached.

Unfortunately I am limited to only 12" max width on either side, so I took a wild guess and figured 2 was better than none.

I've been a BIC owner for probably 15 years, so i thought i'd chime in here.

My current 5.1 setup is as follows (and yes, some of these are pretty long in the tooth, but they still look/sound good to me):

center: DV52 (the old school center, pretty big too)
front: DV736 towers
surround: Optimus Pro LX5
subs: BIC V1000 (amp died earlier this year) and an old KLH 10" sub with yet another dead amp, both powered by an Alesis RA-100 2-channel amp, and they sound pretty darn good

i actually had 2 pair of the Adatto DV52si that i was using for 7.1, but there's so little out there that was actually IN 7.1, i ended up giving one pair to my dad for his hobby room, and another pair to my sister to replace her surround speakers.

i also had the DV52CLRB for a center for awhile, but it lacked the "oomph" (to me) of its predecessor, so i gave that to my sister, too (yeah, she benefits a lot from my constant gadget shopping adventures).

i use a Denon AVR-1610 receiver, and i'm really happy with the way it all sounds, despite the age of some of my speakers.

i don't have a dedicated H/T, my setup is in my living room, and i have a couple of challenges in that regard. there's a window a/c in the room, so the receiver has to be turned up pretty loud to mitigate the effects of that. also, i have hardwood floors.

despite those obstacles, i'm still very happy with the sound, and eager for cold weather to return so i can turn off that noisy window a/c!

Did you find after break In an improvement in the bass? I have been running these for only about 2 hours now, and I find the bass somewhat constricted.
I have the DV62's, and I must say, these speakers really have blown me away with there sound. I hope the bass will open up after some time. I don't have a large room..12x18, so I opted for the stand mounts instead of the DV64's
I know what you mean by these being bright, but yet soft sounding. They are so detailed and Airy, yet they don't give me listening fatigue like my Paradigms did.

Has anyone here compared these to the Acoustech line?

I just discovered this thread and though I would post here for some suggestions. im looking at getting a BIC set in the following config:




For the center
-BIC America FH6-LCR Dual 6.5-Inch 175-Watt

For the fronts and rears
-BIC America DV62si Bookshelf type

For the Sub
-BIC America F12 12-Inch 475-Watt




The sub is still a question becuase pricing is a little out of wack right now. amazon has the F12 for 350 (was 258 a couple days ago), but the Acoustech Platinum Series PL-200 Sub is only $330 and thats a much better sub from the specs and warranty.

Ill be pairing these with either a pioneer 1120 or onkyo 708

Anyone have any opinion on this setup?

If you can wait for a the Bic F12this site sells them for $182
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...er_id=!ORDERID

I just bought some DV64's to go in as my mains which were DV62si's and they sound nice but are too small for my room... the DV62si's will go in my office or the bedroom or something... my hope is with the DV64's I'll fill in the tight mid-bass my system is lacking.. so filling in the hole in my sound... I thought maybe my sub was a little too small for my space and it might be, but this should help a bit.. they will be the mains in a 7.1 system which is being driven currently by a Yamaha rx-v1400 but soon to be an Onkyo HT-RC270..

funny.. my friend back in the 80s had a set of BIC venturi's.. good to see they're still around making affordable and great sounding speakers.

edit: I will likely replace my Paradigm cc-270 center with a DV62CLR-S to keep the front mains all BIC... I am guessing that will also help in keeping the sound feel balanced.. my surround speakers are Wharfedale WH2's..

The problem with the stock config of the DV62si is the way BIC has the crossover set up. The woofer circuit has a slope to it that reduces the midbass too much. They made it even worse by letting the way too efficient tweeter go almost uncontrolled. My mod fixes those things. You should have contacted me. I could have saved you the cost of those DV64s.

well... hindsight is often 20/20... but I still need to find a spot in my house for these DV62si's so maybe I will get them modded and use them in the bedroom or office system.. I'll pm you once I have the others installed and can get the 62's boxed up..

No need to box them up.

Ahh.. so I can do it myself? cool if so... I'll PM you when I am ready... I was going to get another set of DV62si's minimally for my office system so this getting the DV64's wasn't a waste really.. for the price all these BIC speakers are such a steal.. anyways, thanks for chiming in!

I'm wondering if anyone here has the DV52CLR center and if so how do you like it?
I'm considering picking that up and pairing it with the DV62si bookshelves.
Will this be a good voice match?
I can't find the "non Adatto" DV52si bookshelves anywhere otherwise I'd just go with those.

Another question, Is the DV52CLR rear ported, and does it use binding posts or spring clips?

I'd love to get the DV62CLR but just don't have the room for it. It would have to be right up against the wall.

Thanks

E

How do you feel about the formula series? I just switched to a new but less powerful receiver and was thinking about switching to the formula with the horns due to their efficiency.

How big is your room? I've found more power really only gains you maybe a few more db's of headroom max. High efficiency speakers I've found tend to give off a "screech" type sound when pushed to loud levels. In my car audio system, I can barely stand vocal range sound at average levels (above bass frequencies) at 104db SPL. Generally, most speakers in average sized living rooms with 50-watts and speakers set near the wall, will do 95db-98db SPL averages which is as loud as you'll ever need to go. The only speaker unit you'll need for louder output is your subwoofer, that's it. Generally the non-bass speakers don't need much of any power to get plenty loud in small to medium sized rooms (15x15 or 20x20).

I'd advise you to buy the speakers you find pleasing to listen to and buy a receiver with a great auto-tune like Pioneer's MCACC. I rate Pioneer's auto-tune as the very best I've heard when put up against Harman's auto-tune and a Denon's Audessey auto-tune. Hands DOWN the MCACC of Pioneer CRUSHED the others in terms of clarity, musicality, audibility of voice within a busy mix and naturalness of common sounds in movie mixes as well as very accurate speaker pans (when a sound rotates around the different speakers and the depth/distance/tone/character remaining intact during the panning around the stage).

I still recommend some small fine-tuning, but still, out of the box, when speakers are properly staged in the room and the auto tune is run labelling the speakers as "THX speaker", the results were beyond all expectations I had.

Let me put it this way. I have two brothers. My older brother owns a Denon model receiver with the Audissey auto-tune and I got to hear the movie HULK (the Ed Norton Hulk movie) on his system first. Then, a week later my younger brother tried a Harman Kardon AVR-254 at his home, both comparably priced. I got to hear two action packed movies (Transformers & Watchmen) on the Harman Kardon AVR-254. My younger brother wasn't really satisfied, so he bought the Pioneer VSX-919AH-K and ran the auto-tune and we popped in Inglorious Bastards and then watched Zombieland. The quality of the Pioneer receiver's MCACC auto tune was so good, I immediately decided that is the receiver I wanted, period. And this was a damn budget receiver VSX-919AH-K model! The quality difference was so obviously better and it's no exaggeration.

So, keep that in mind even after you buy your speakers. I've found that the quality of the auto-tune built-into these newer receivers these days is just as important as the speaker system you pick.

The room is 12x22. I have pioneer 5 series so no auto tune form me. The Venturi center plays well but sometimes dialogue is hard to hear. Also sounds like there's a lot of "air". Maybe should be crossed over differently or maybe the actual audio track.

I have the fronts set to small because you can't adjust them individually on mine and in using older kenwoods. Phase is on and DAC and surround is standard mode.
Maybe it's a receiver issue and not the speakers. I want to replace the rest of the kenwoods but to make sure I'm getting the bettert version, Venturi or formula series.

I already have the f-12 and really enjoy it.

I just ditched my old yamaha rx-v1400 which did have some room calibration setup built in.. but my new pioneer vsx-1020-k blows the doors of that thing with the MCACC calibration.. my system sounds so much better with this new receiver after running the calibration.. Thanks for your note about that.. I was in the midst of shopping receivers and took what I saw in your post as a "sign" to give the pioneer a whirl.. I am very happy with it! not only does it sound great but the internet radio rocks and iphone app is a pretty fun and actually useful toy..

I haven't hooked my DV64's to the system yet.. wanted to hear how the system I had listened to so much sounded with the new receiver.. I'll drop the 64's into the mix this week and let them break in before the weekend.

What is the comparison between the Venturis and the Platinum series. Which series sounds better musically? I am looking closely at the DV-64 vs the PL-76. I am also considering the Formula line of speakers, what is the word on these? I've looked all over and all I hear are good things about Bic speakers, but little in the form of a comparison among bic speakers.

I have had the DV64s on my system now for a while and I am extremely happy with them.. they definitely took a while to break in, about a week for me, but I didn't play them around the clock, just a few hours in the evenings.. They sound more powerful than the 62si's on the low end and the highs feel a bit warmer and are so amazingly clear.. the sound stage with these in the mix with my new vsx-1020-k receiver blows me away when playing blu-rays with good surround audio... which reminds me I should run the MCACC calibration again now that the speakers are well broken in.

Anyone using the DV5-B as surrounds? In a non-multi-channel-music environment, I would think the dispersion might be better, over a DV62si.

Glad to see someone talking about the MCACC calibration. It does a great job. Sounds clean, great imaging improvement and the biggest difference for me was just how many different sounds I could hear in the mix. After calibration the audible depth of the sound mix improves dramatically. Outdoor nature sounds are really convincing for me out of the surrounds too.

This is wonderful, I found a forum for my speakers!

I recently purchased a Denon 3311 receiver to replace my 10+ year old Technics 5.1 receiver. It's on the way and I got the speaker replacement urge, but maybe it's not necessary. I have BIC DV62si front speakers, DV62CLR center, Sony 12" sub, and Radio Shack Optimus Pro 7 Indoor/Outdoor speakers for surrounds. Room is about 20 wide' x 15' deep, with 8.5' ceiling. Left wall cover in brick fireplace, rear wall is almost all window, right is open to kitchen.

Had a suggestion when I was asking about MultEq XT benefits, that my current speakers might be limiting my ability to really appreciate the XT benefits. But now I'm wondering how much of a speaker upgrade I really need.

1. So I'm wondering first of upgrading Optimus Pro 7 subs, they are pretty weak, have 50 watt max, and 120-20,000 freq response. I was thinking of DV32 or the Adatto DV52si Indoor/Outdoor. (I also saw the DV-5 , which looked like it should work well, but it costs more, is larger, and has less frequency response than the Adatto DV52si.) Any suggestions here about surround replacement?

2. The DV62si bookshelf speakers for front are about 6 inches higher than the top level of the TV. The DV62-CLR center is directly above the TV, about a foot above it. Any thoughts on these speakers placement?

3. Any other thoughts about my HT (speakers and sub) set-up are certainly welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Jeff

Only you know what sounds good to you. I bought the formula f-12 as an upgrade from my angstrom sub. Very pleased.

You might be best suited to match up two more dv-62clr up front and more your dv62si as surrounds.

The closer to ear level your speakers are the better they'll sound. Good luck. And if you decide to sell I'ld be interested in buying.

Thanks for posting. Thanks too for your suggestion about getting the speakers at ear level. The fronts and centers are definitely above that level now, because of the way they fit in the entertainment cabinets. (Maybe it might help if I tilted them down?)

Wasn't thinking of new sub, but who knows, I just might "need" a BIC sub!

And while I realize only I know what sounds good to me, I was looking for others experiences with surrounds, especially the Adatto DV52si. But that reminded me maybe there is somewhere where I could hear BIC speakers, I've in the past just purchased them online. Unfortunately, BIC dealer referral is down now.

PM'ed you to see what interests you.