or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Samsung 8500 Series Calibration/Settings
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung 8500 Series Calibration/Settings - Page 2

post #31 of 632
Thread Starter 
Hi cool2562,

If your PC DVI supports analog DVI output then you can use an DVI-RGB adapter and then connect to TV using RGB cable. You have to check if it does first though. Wikipedia might help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool2562 View Post

What cable do I need to connect my PC to the TV because dvi to dvi need not fit in TV
post #32 of 632
I have the 8500 series 46 inch
post #33 of 632
Yahoo: I tried both sets of your settings. Not close for my 46" 8500. Chad B made a comment about using calibration settings from one 8500 on another 8500.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1449
post #34 of 632
Ok Yahoo, I got the video to work but how can I get audio from my PC to play from the TV? I have Nvidia 8800 GTX and the 8500 samsung series. Thanks
post #35 of 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

Yahoo: I tried both sets of your settings. Not close for my 46" 8500. Chad B made a comment about using calibration settings from one 8500 on another 8500.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1449

Yes, that is very true. If you truly want good calibration settings, you need to have it calibrated. For what these sets cost, why not do it right?

You'll be better off with default settings than sharing settings.
post #36 of 632
I made a couple of tweaks using the optimizer from the "Ratatouille" blu-ray. Really, that was all that was needed for me. Picture looks fantastic. I put in "Apocalypto" and watched the end scene (with the rain, on the beach) and pretty much just gasped
post #37 of 632
Thread Starter 
Yes, Bill, sorry to hear that.

I did read Chad's review before but nevertheless hoped at least a few of you may benefit from the experience of others without having to pay for ISF calibration.

This is also why I choose to calibrate using the existing factory BASE hoping that this would allow more people to benefit from sharing than touching the service menus. When you need as close to perfection as possible, ISF calibration in the Service Menu is the only way to do it.

The sharing is slow in building and perhaps as more people own the 8500 you will see settings that are appropriate for your set.

Even though there was no actual settings to try, Chad's original review was very informative and technical and I have added that link in POST #1 for all others to see.

P.S. You probably tried the ORIGINAL CNET settings as well then since that was the result from their 46" set? How did that go for you - was it better than the other two in post #1? The ORIGINAL CNET setttings don't work for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ball View Post

Yahoo: I tried both sets of your settings. Not close for my 46" 8500. Chad B made a comment about using calibration settings from one 8500 on another 8500.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1449
post #38 of 632
Thread Starter 
If you are using RGB port the only way to get the audio to work is using the PC/DVI AUDIO IN port via an audio cable directly connecting to your computer's audio OUT port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cool2562 View Post

Ok Yahoo, I got the video to work but how can I get audio from my PC to play from the TV? I have Nvidia 8800 GTX and the 8500 samsung series. Thanks
post #39 of 632
Yahoo, I tried the setting you recommended and have to say it is a huge improvement from the default movie view. I am going to tweak the color settings a bit, but overall there is a huge quality jump, especially on blue ray.

However, my HDMI Setting is greyed out just like CNET said in their review. Does anyone know how to get around this. I have all my components going into my Yamaha RX-V2700 with 1 HDMI out to the Sammy.
post #40 of 632
Thread Starter 
zhorn,

What is your firmware and display size? I think it may play a part in this.
post #41 of 632
Thread Starter 
nicholc2,

You are right but for those that are still on the fence (30 day return period), trying out a "shared" setting and then maybe fine tuning it to their taste by eye from there or using a THX/AVI optimizer from there may be okay for a few while they wait for a burn-in period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

Yes, that is very true. If you truly want good calibration settings, you need to have it calibrated. For what these sets cost, why not do it right?

You'll be better off with default settings than sharing settings.
post #42 of 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post

zhorn,

What is your firmware and display size? I think it may play a part in this.

55 in. 2009/12/02_002008
post #43 of 632
Just thought I would post another list of settings from TweakTV. However, I think Yahoo's are better...

Picture Modes
◦Picture Mode : Movie
◦Color Temperature : Warm 2
◦Aspect Ratio : 16:9
Picture Settings
◦Backlight : 3
◦Contrast : 90
◦Brightness : 46
◦Sharpness : 0
◦Color : 47
◦Tint : G46/R54
Advanced Settings
◦Black Tone : Off
◦Dynamic Contrast : Off
◦Gamma : -1
◦Color Space : Auto
◦White Balance : Factory Default
◦Fleshtone : 0
◦Edge Enhancement : Off
◦XVYCC Color : Off
Picture Options
◦Color Tone : Warm 2
◦Size : 16:9
◦Digital NR : Off
◦HDMI Black Level : Low
◦Film Mode : Auto 1
◦Blue Only Mode : Off
◦Auto Motion Plus : Off
post #44 of 632
OK, so sorry to add confusion by posting numerous setting options- however, just dialed these in and the Cotton Bowl looks AWESOME. I turned the antiblur up to 10 and antijudder up to 8 (since it is football - otherwise I would not go above 2 on the antijudder).

Found these in a post on **************.com from davidjschenk. Apparently he has some calibration tools. Here is what he says:

"In order to flatten the gamma, I had to give up some accuracy in the grayscale, especially with that nasty, nasty blue dip at 20 IRE, but visually I really didn't see much trouble in the grayscale, and gamma is now at least reasonably well-ordered. Color accuracy under Auto is surprisingly good, especially with Gamma -1. The secondaries are just spot on and the primaries, while a bit off, are much closer than I expected.

This thing is PHENOMENAL. My minimum light level came in (get this) at 0.0000. That is not an error; that really is the result my C5 delivered. The backlight, of course, did not turn all the way off because I worked very, very hard to stop it from doing so (it wanted to--believe me), but I managed to get it so dark that the probe couldn't catch the emitted light. Hah! Peak light was around 38.5, which I know is a bit high for some folks, but really, it worked fine. And this way my gamma is at least fairly flat."


Movie mode
Warm2
Backlight 5
Contrast 86 (going higher turned my high-end grayscale VERY RED)
Brightness 47
Color 50
Tint 50/50
^^ these two were ridiculously accurate
Screen Fit
Digital NR Off
AMP Antiblur 4 (but all the way up to 10 works fine with no discernible artifacts)
Antijudder 0
Local Dimming On
Color Space Auto (grrrr...)
Gamma -1 (This was hugely important for flattening the gamma and (sort of) controlling the blue hump.)

White Space
R Off: 24
G Off: 25
B Of: 18
R Gain: 49
G Gain: 25
B Gain: 43
post #45 of 632
I tried the settings in the previous posts and there are still some things off. I am thinking that every 8500 is a bit different as Chad said.
I am getting some muddy colors and darker highlights than I would like with the movie mode and settings suggested here.

On Dynamic and Normal I am noticing a big bleed from credits on the end of movies, the leds come through and bleed out pretty bad.

Actually BDwise seems the best with my sammy Blu-ray player.
post #46 of 632
HDMI black level, and xvYCC do not function with my 3600 sammy player.

Is everyone noticing that the picture options menu stays the same no matter what mode or source you pick? I thought that the settings would be customized for each mode and each source. Is it just contrast, brightness etc, or other settings that are customizable?
post #47 of 632
Thread Starter 
zhorn,

Thanks for posting the settings and I was able to run some tests just a while ago today before the regular week starts tomorrow.

The HDMI setting is not shown in your post but I assume it had to be LOW since normal looked even worse, and so I dialed in everything else as is and here is what the Sencore reported. IRE-30 +13% Red and -12% Blue, IRE-80 +16% Red and -4% Blue, which is overly RED, all number should be within +/- 5%.

I can definitely see the RED PUSH when contrast is turned up that perhaps account for why in my first calibration I had to turn down the RED GAIN.

Since Gamma -1 seems to be a preference across some of the other calibrators, I decided to leave that alone and use this set of settings as BASE and tried to bring the screen back to my standard requirements and here are the "updated settings" that works for my set. I will leave the screen at these settings for the next few weeks and see how it works out. The nice thing about this set of numbers is that you can dial up and down on the backlight and/or LMP and still stay in range of the requirement -- though turning up the backlight does produce more BLUE on the higher IRE. This fits nicely my needs to sometimes turn backlight up/down LMP on/off for day/night viewing needs without worrying too much about deviations (though of course it does move within the acceptable range.

The settings are posted in POST #1 as RECALIBRATED davidjschenk's settings.

If more people prefer his original settings, I will post it in POST #1 as well for reference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zhorn View Post

OK, so sorry to add confusion by posting numerous setting options- however, just dialed these in and the Cotton Bowl looks AWESOME. I turned the antiblur up to 10 and antijudder up to 8 (since it is football - otherwise I would not go above 2 on the antijudder).

Found these in a post on **************.com from davidjschenk. Apparently he has some calibration tools. Here is what he says:

"In order to flatten the gamma, I had to give up some accuracy in the grayscale, especially with that nasty, nasty blue dip at 20 IRE, but visually I really didn't see much trouble in the grayscale, and gamma is now at least reasonably well-ordered. Color accuracy under Auto is surprisingly good, especially with Gamma -1. The secondaries are just spot on and the primaries, while a bit off, are much closer than I expected.

This thing is PHENOMENAL. My minimum light level came in (get this) at 0.0000. That is not an error; that really is the result my C5 delivered. The backlight, of course, did not turn all the way off because I worked very, very hard to stop it from doing so (it wanted to--believe me), but I managed to get it so dark that the probe couldn't catch the emitted light. Hah! Peak light was around 38.5, which I know is a bit high for some folks, but really, it worked fine. And this way my gamma is at least fairly flat."


Movie mode
Warm2
Backlight 5
Contrast 86 (going higher turned my high-end grayscale VERY RED)
Brightness 47
Color 50
Tint 50/50
^^ these two were ridiculously accurate
Screen Fit
Digital NR Off
AMP Antiblur 4 (but all the way up to 10 works fine with no discernible artifacts)
Antijudder 0
Local Dimming On
Color Space Auto (grrrr...)
Gamma -1 (This was hugely important for flattening the gamma and (sort of) controlling the blue hump.)

White Space
R Off: 24
G Off: 25
B Of: 18
R Gain: 49
G Gain: 25
B Gain: 43
post #48 of 632
No problem...

I did not post HDMI settings because when I am in Movie mode the HDMI setting option (along with "Film") is still grayed out... I can't figure out why. Standard mode (via Game mode) allows me to adjust HDMI, however.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I have 2008 firmware.

Also, I have had some trouble with "Screen fit" for the aspect ratio on some cable channels (Time Warner), so I am going to stick with 16:9.
post #49 of 632
BTW... I am noticing some serious lag on few cable channels as well as when playing games - XBox 360 (I do not want to have to turn game mode on due to picture loss). Does anyone know how to combat the lag?
post #50 of 632
Thread Starter 
How bad is the lag and why would it bother you when you are not using your set for real-time purposes (like action games)? For playing games you should turn on game mode. Either that or turn off all secondary processing like Judder/Blur/AutoMotion/Dynamic Contrast, etc. I use component input for games to keep it separate so the "game mode" is always engaged for games. But if you absolutely must use HDMI then maybe have it go in with a separate HDMI port instead of a centralized one.
post #51 of 632
Thread Starter 
zhorn,

After doing some research, it appears irrelevant what HDMI mode you are in AS LONG AS IT IS NOT MISMATCHED between the OUTPUT DEVICE and the TV. If it is greyed out that means it is auto-matched and there is no need to worry. If it is not greyed out, then the user is responsible to make sure it is MATCHED for proper calibration. For this reason I have taken out HDMI parameter in POST #1 and going forward, since I cannot be sure the user's output device is properly set I should not advocate HDMI-Low. Mismatched HDMI setting will create all kinds of color issues. Even if I calibrated at HDMI-Low the result is still the same for HDMI-Normal if the device is correctly matched.

Most RGB devices either cannot negotiate HDMI level or has options to change it within their settings menu, and that is why you are able to access the HDMI menu in game mode when feeding the 8500 RGB game signals.

Update:
My media player has the ability to set RGB levels and I bumped the settings to HDMI-NORMAL and RGB-FULL and the result was less than acceptable. The THX contrast/brightness calibrations were both reduced in definition, so I am forced to change them back to HDMI-LOW and RGB-LIMITED to pass all calibration tests. It may be that my media player is at fault, but until I can confirm that I will notate my calibrations are performed under those circumstances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zhorn View Post

No problem...

I did not post HDMI settings because when I am in Movie mode the HDMI setting option (along with "Film") is still grayed out... I can't figure out why. Standard mode (via Game mode) allows me to adjust HDMI, however.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I have 2008 firmware.

Also, I have had some trouble with "Screen fit" for the aspect ratio on some cable channels (Time Warner), so I am going to stick with 16:9.
post #52 of 632
Interesting... thanks for the info. Now I do not have to be upset I cannot adjust the HDMI level when NOT in game mode. However, my gaming system (XBox 360) is connected via HDMI... does that throw the theory off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post

zhorn,

After doing some research, it appears irrelevant what HDMI mode you are in AS LONG AS IT IS NOT MISMATCHED between the OUTPUT DEVICE and the TV. If it is greyed out that means it is auto-matched and there is no need to worry. If it is not greyed out, then the user is responsible to make sure it is MATCHED for proper calibration. For this reason I have taken out HDMI parameter in POST #1 and going forward, since I cannot be sure the user's output device is properly set I should not advocate HDMI-Low. Mismatched HDMI setting will create all kinds of color issues. Even if I calibrated at HDMI-Low the result is still the same for HDMI-Normal if the device is correctly matched.

Most RGB devices either cannot negotiate HDMI level or has options to change it within their settings menu, and that is why you are able to access the HDMI menu in game mode when feeding the 8500 RGB game signals.

Update:
My media player has the ability to set RGB levels and I bumped the settings to HDMI-NORMAL and RGB-FULL and the result was less than acceptable. The THX contrast/brightness calibrations were both reduced in definition, so I am forced to change them back to HDMI-LOW and RGB-LIMITED to pass all calibration tests. It may be that my media player is at fault, but until I can confirm that I will notate my calibrations are performed under those circumstances.
post #53 of 632
Good suggestion... Playing action games is the only issue I run into. Since I have all my components going into my Yamaha via HDMI (with 1 HDMI out to the Sammy), perhaps I will rewire with the XBox going straight to the Sammy HDMI 2 with an audio out to the receiver. I assuming this would prevent me from having to switch my movie viewing settings back and forth from game mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post

How bad is the lag and why would it bother you when you are not using your set for real-time purposes (like action games)? For playing games you should turn on game mode. Either that or turn off all secondary processing like Judder/Blur/AutoMotion/Dynamic Contrast, etc. I use component input for games to keep it separate so the "game mode" is always engaged for games. But if you absolutely must use HDMI then maybe have it go in with a separate HDMI port instead of a centralized one.
post #54 of 632
Thread Starter 
Well, I have bad news to report.

This morning when I fired up the TV I saw the crop circle effect immediately. My TV is plugged in directly to the outlet so it is ALWAYS POWERED during all this time of ownership (about 60 days now) and this is the first time I've seen this. Firmware was internet updated to 1008 over a month ago.

I have a photo of it but have to find a place to post it. By now most everyone on this forum knows about it so I doubt I would go through the effort to post it, other than to send a copy to Samsung when I report my incident.

Since this is a RARE bug, I decided to test all the other mode options that "may" have to do with the bug -- i.e. BACKLIGHT, GAMMA, etc. As a result of this experimentation, I have also detected a "DRYING-UP EFFECT" that happens now. The effect is basically like watching water pool drying up using a time-lapsed video and is most pronounced when you switch SCREEN SIZE mode from Wide-Fit to 4:3 or to Screen-Fit. It seems to surface during RESCALING of the image only, so just make sure you have a image displayed during your own testing. For my test I had a largely blue/white image.

I also have taken a video of it as I switched modes so you can clearly see the effect, but will need to post it on youtube or somewhere if anyone's interested.

If any of you come across the Crop Circle effect please test for the DRYING-UP EFFECT to help confirm both effects show up for you in the same incident. It does not make sense that the Smart-LED feature would have any relation to screen scaling, but perhaps this will help Samsung to fix it permanently -- if it is not already -- when we can confirm they always occur together.

Power-cycling did fix both problems.

I have also updated POST #1 to include these findings.
post #55 of 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post

Power-cycling did fix both problems.

That's at least some good news, thanks for the update Yahoo.

Since the "owner's" thread has turned into the "should I buy this before it's gone!?!?!" thread, I'll post my question here:

Should I calibrate my set with LED Motion Plus on or off? Has anyone found a movie/scene that really shows the benefit of LED Motion Plus? I'm just trying to figure out if I should go with a higher backlight number + LMP on, or a lower backlight number and LMP off...

If I were to get this set professionally calibrated, would they calibrate the set with it on or off?
post #56 of 632
Thread Starter 
Hi embit,

LMP adds additional apparant motion resolution to your viewing experience. Most professionals calibrate with it ON, if memory serves me right.

On my 81F and also the 8500, I tried watching with them on and off and do not seem to notice that much benefit personally -- but then it could just be the kind of programs I watch. On the other hand, turning on LMP on 81F produces a slightly yellow bias on whites. On the 8500 turning up the BACKLIGHT increased the BLUE.

When I do calibration I do it on both modes in such a way that all numbers land within the +/-5% mark of the 6500K. One can argue that it is less perfect than those that calibrate to within 2% but I like the convenience (and being lazy -- haha) of being able to switch LMP ON and OFF anytime and still not have to worry about anything else being adjusted. Of course, in the extreme case, this implies I can be off by a factor of 10% on each color being +/- 5% each way, between my own LMP-ON/LMP-OFF color modes using this policy. So far my variance seems to be about 5% however.

For those reasons, I leave backlight at 10 for daytime viewing and turn on LMP when I feel the need to turn down the brightness at night -- in essence you can say it is best to watch the TV at night to get FULL MOTION RESOLUTION BENEFITS.

This reminds me to add to my WISH LIST in POST #1 for Samsung to have a toggle button on the remote to engage these...
post #57 of 632
Thanks for the info Yahoo, I actually like that system. I noticed with my amateur tweaking the exact same thing (daytime = LMP off, nightime = LMP on) but I didn't think of actually using it like that... brilliant!
post #58 of 632
My 8500 created unbelievable lip sync issues with my old Harman Kardon receiver, and with limited delay correction, I couldn't fix the problem.


Bought a Denon AVR-590 and hooked it up all with HDMI and still had lip sync! Fortunately I knew that the receiver had correction up to 200ms.


The strangest thing is...when I play a BD from the PS3 while it is plugged directly into the tv, there is no sync problem whatsoever. But when I use the receiver to do the audio and send the video, there are sync issues. The entire audio section is greyed out during this time, having automatically switched to "external speaker."


Are there any sound settings within the TV that I perhaps missed?
post #59 of 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by oland View Post

My 8500 created unbelievable lip sync issues with my old Harman Kardon receiver, and with limited delay correction, I couldn't fix the problem.


Bought a Denon AVR-590 and hooked it up all with HDMI and still had lip sync! Fortunately I knew that the receiver had correction up to 200ms.


The strangest thing is...when I play a BD from the PS3 while it is plugged directly into the tv, there is no sync problem whatsoever. But when I use the receiver to do the audio and send the video, there are sync issues. The entire audio section is greyed out during this time, having automatically switched to "external speaker."


Are there any sound settings within the TV that I perhaps missed?

why is that strange? wouldn't it make the most sense to have delay when using a AVR, and no delay without? The 8500 will add a delay to the video that's coming in for its processing features (AMP, etc), and the AVR isn't going to know when to play the audio to match this delay.

I haven't hooked my onkyo up yet (still waiting on speakers) so I can't say from experience. My guess would be that you need to delay the audio in the AVR to match up with whatever delay the 8500 adds to it's inputs.
post #60 of 632
Thread Starter 
oland,

I have mine hooked up a Yamaha Receiver and going from there to the 8500 and there is no delay on the 81F or the 8500, all using HDMI.

I did not disable the internal speaker on the 8500 since I do have a few other things to go directly to the 8500's ports that cannot benefit from the higher quality audio processing of the receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oland View Post

My 8500 created unbelievable lip sync issues with my old Harman Kardon receiver, and with limited delay correction, I couldn't fix the problem.


Bought a Denon AVR-590 and hooked it up all with HDMI and still had lip sync! Fortunately I knew that the receiver had correction up to 200ms.


The strangest thing is...when I play a BD from the PS3 while it is plugged directly into the tv, there is no sync problem whatsoever. But when I use the receiver to do the audio and send the video, there are sync issues. The entire audio section is greyed out during this time, having automatically switched to "external speaker."


Are there any sound settings within the TV that I perhaps missed?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: LCD Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Samsung 8500 Series Calibration/Settings