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Interpreting REW Chart

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I recently purchased a Martin Logan Dynamo and ran REW to find the best place for it. I moved it around to a few places and this is the best chart I got:



I don't have much experience interpreting these charts and I wonder if someone can shed some light on the following questions:

1) This subwoofer is not supposed to have much output below 25Hz. However, I calibrated the mic at 75db and the graphic shows around 72db at around 19Hz. Am I reading the chart right? If so, is the subwoofer itself generating those frequencies or is it the room?

2) Since I already played around with subwoofer placement, what other options do I have for dealing with the dip at around 50Hz. Because of the room layout and WAF, corner bass traps are not an option. Would something like GIK 244 bass traps mounted on the ceiling or front wall help there? Or should I just ask Santa for a Behringer Feedback Destroyer?

In general, I'm pleased with this subwoofer. It replaced an AudioSource SW-15, and even though it lacks the slam effect, the new subwoofer is miles ahead in terms of definition. Music sounds so much better than it did with my previous subwoofer.

TIA.
post #2 of 12
1) It's most likely the room playing a roll in the measurements showing some room gain down low, if they were taken at the listening position. To get a better reading of what the sub is doing you can place the sub away from any boundaries and then do a near field measurement.

2) Someone with more experience in room treatments will need to chime in on what effect they could have but overall the raw graph doesn't look that bad. If that's your best spot for placement using the BFD to bring the 20-30hz range down a little and then playing with crossover, phase and possibly a cut in the 60-70hz range should get you a pretty level response with a natural house curve going.
post #3 of 12
Presuming that you have REW set up correctly, the better chart would be the one that appears flattest.
post #4 of 12
Where is your XO set? You may want to play around with the phase setting on the sub (or the distance setting on your AVR). That's a pretty nasty dip from 35-60hz, hopefully some of that is phase cancellation with the mains and tweaking the phase will help out... A BFD (or some other EQ) would definitely help.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

1) It's most likely the room playing a roll in the measurements showing some room gain down low, if they were taken at the listening position. To get a better reading of what the sub is doing you can place the sub away from any boundaries and then do a near field measurement.

Yes, the measurements were taken with a RadioShack SPL meter, attached to a tripod, in the primary listening position at ear level. When you say a near field measurement, how near should it be? One meter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

2) Someone with more experience in room treatments will need to chime in on what effect they could have but overall the raw graph doesn't look that bad. If that's your best spot for placement using the BFD to bring the 20-30hz range down a little and then playing with crossover, phase and possibly a cut in the 60-70hz range should get you a pretty level response with a natural house curve going.

Thank you for the insight. I learned a few new things from your post and it looks like I have some reading to do, especially around what is a house curve and the role phase plays in the FR curve. I didn't know there was a relationship between phase and frequency response.
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Presuming that you have REW set up correctly, the better chart would be the one that appears flattest.

Thanks, JimP. I tried different places and the chart I posted was the flattest one. I followed the diagrams in the REW forum and I applied the correction data for the RS SPL meter so I think I set up REW correctly; my only doubt is the sound card since I'm using the on-board sound card.
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

Where is your XO set? You may want to play around with the phase setting on the sub (or the distance setting on your AVR). That's a pretty nasty dip from 35-60hz, hopefully some of that is phase cancellation with the mains and tweaking the phase will help out... A BFD (or some other EQ) would definitely help.

Thanks, lennon_68. The XO is set at 80Hz in the AVR, and the chart I posted was taken with Audyssey Dynamic EQ enabled (the AVR has MultEQ XT).

I think I'll go for the BFD. I know I shouldn't expect any miracle with that subwoofer but it sounds like it'd be fun to play with it and it'll help me to learn a thing or two.
post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

Yes, the measurements were taken with a RadioShack SPL meter, attached to a tripod, in the primary listening position at ear level. When you say a near field measurement, how near should it be? One meter?

If you want to get an idea on what the sub itself is doing without interaction from the room then place mic at the speaker or within an inch in distance from the surround and position the mic so it's centered. You could also do 1 meter but that's going to start getting more room interaction involved again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

Thank you for the insight. I learned a few new things from your post and it looks like I have some reading to do, especially around what is a house curve and the role phase plays in the FR curve. I didn't know there was a relationship between phase and frequency response.

A house curve is a roll off from bottom to the top in the FR. Many prefer it due to our perception, as the FR goes down our perception of the level decreases. In your graph for example start with a straight line at your response at 20hz and draw it straight through your 35-55hz response until you reach the crossover point. That's a very simplistic description and there are a zillion variations and degrees of it but that gives you the idea.

Phase changes the subs firing to get the smoothest response with the speakers at and around the crossover point. Unless you're doing sub with speaker measurements don't worry about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

I think I'll go for the BFD. I know I shouldn't expect any miracle with that subwoofer but it sounds like it'd be fun to play with it and it'll help me to learn a thing or two.

I think it will help a great deal with your peaks I know it did mine. BTW what receiver do you have. If you have one or are thinking about getting one, MultEQ should go a long way in leveling out that response along with other features and filters the BFD can't do of course Audysseey isn't as customizable either so its one or the other in that regard.

If you do have a receiver with MultEQ or are thinking about getting one I'd go that route first and then see where you stand. You might and probably will find you don't need external EQ.
post #9 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

..... BTW what receiver do you have.....

I have a Denon AVR-3808CI (with the upgrade package installed), wich comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT.

Thank you for all the great information.
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

...........is the subwoofer itself generating those frequencies or is it the room?

Both, of course. Although what the sub, itself, may be doing on its own may be of interest, it is not so easy to measure this accurately, in-room. And, ultimately, that's not what is important, anyway. What is important is the measurement of the sub and room, together, as measured at your listening position(s). That's why you are running REW, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

I didn't know there was a relationship between phase and frequency response.

The phase setting will affect the interaction of the speakers and sub in the area of output over which they overlap. If you are measuring the sub, alone, as Jakeman02 pointed out, the phase setting should have no effect at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

I have a Denon AVR-3808CI (with the upgrade package installed), wich comes with Audyssey MultEQ XT.

So, are you just running REW out of curiosity? Just to optimize your sub's placement? Phasing? That's fine, and can't hurt, but Audyssey will go a long way toward doing that for you, too. If you are going to fiddle with things like the phasing, do that prior to running Audyssey and, then, don't change it.

Was that graph generated prior to or after running Audyssey?
post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gye View Post

Thanks, lennon_68. The XO is set at 80Hz in the AVR, and the chart I posted was taken with Audyssey Dynamic EQ enabled (the AVR has MultEQ XT).

I think I'll go for the BFD. I know I shouldn't expect any miracle with that subwoofer but it sounds like it'd be fun to play with it and it'll help me to learn a thing or two.

That huge hump between about 18 and 35 hz is probably a result of the bass boost from the Dynamic EQ. Switch off the Dynamic EQ and rerun the sweeps to see the response without that boost.
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys.

The measurements for the chart I posted were taken after running Audyssey, and with Dynamic EQ enabled.

I'll re-measure with and without Dynamic EQ to see what is Audyssey doing.
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