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Spears & Munsil Calibration Advice - Page 4

post #91 of 162
1/23/11 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

If you are using the new Edge FW that claims to fix the color space, I would set contrast back to 0 in the Edge.

We continue to learn as well. The clipping pattern on our disc was designed for one specific test and has since exposed other issues we were unaware of the time.

Is there a summary of these issues somewhere? This test alone causes me to reduce contrast significantly on my Samsung LCD.
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post #92 of 162
1/23/11 at 8:52am
Quote:
Is there a summary of these issues somewhere?

Are you asking for a summary of what the pattern can be used for? If so:

-White Clipped, RGB Not clipped: Clipping occurs in YCbCr space before conversion to RGB. Not great, but still protects majority of image.

-White Clipped, RGB Clipped. Clipping occurs in RGB. Could mean contrast is set too high. Might be using PC levels instead of video levels. Highlights will be lost in the image. Light sources, shiny objects, etc...

-White Not Clipped, RB not clipped, Green Clipped. This means 601 color conversion is being used instead of 709.

Quote:
This test alone causes me to reduce contrast significantly

That is pretty common. Displays default settings are usually to try and produce the brighest image possible, not the best.

I lowered contrast on my Panasonic VT20 down to 42. I think the default was in the 70s for THX mode.
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post #93 of 162
1/23/11 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Are you asking for a summary of what the pattern can be used for? If so:

-White Clipped, RGB Not clipped: Clipping occurs in YCbCr space before conversion to RGB. Not great, but still protects majority of image.

-White Clipped, RGB Clipped. Clipping occurs in RGB. Could mean contrast is set too high. Might be using PC levels instead of video levels. Highlights will be lost in the image. Light sources, shiny objects, etc...

-White Not Clipped, RB not clipped, Green Clipped. This means 601 color conversion is being used instead of 709.



That is pretty common. Displays default settings are usually to try and produce the brighest image possible, not the best.

I lowered contrast on my Panasonic VT20 down to 42. I think the default was in the 70s for THX mode.

Well, while I certainly appreciate the primer (thank you), I was asking about the "issues" (your word) which I took to mean some sort of unexpected glitches or unintended consequences under certain circumstances.

I assume these can be pieced together by going back through the thread; I'm just getting lazy I guess.
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post #94 of 162
1/23/11 at 11:22am
Quote:


I was asking about the "issues" (your word) which I took to mean some sort of unexpected glitches

The original purpose of the pattern was strictly for:
-White Clipped, RGB Not clipped: Clipping occurs in YCbCr space before conversion to RGB. Not great, but still protects majority of image.

When I said other issues, I meant issues exposed by using the pattern. Maybe other uses might have been better. The following are the other uses, outside of original intent, of the pattern:
-White Clipped, RGB Clipped. Clipping occurs in RGB. Could mean contrast is set too high. Might be using PC levels instead of video levels. Highlights will be lost in the image. Light sources, shiny objects, etc...
-White Not Clipped, RB not clipped, Green Clipped. This means 601 color conversion is being used instead of 709.
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post #95 of 162
1/23/11 at 10:07pm
Thanks.

My combo is:
White not clipped and only Red is clipped in RGB. Turning down contrast corrects the clipping issue.
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post #96 of 162
2/1/11 at 4:11pm
just ordered this from crutchfield, will check out the replies some more, but will be back when it gets here...hope i'm not too slow to figure it out, never calibrated anything before..
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post #97 of 162
2/1/11 at 4:13pm
We are here to answer any questions you may have. There are two threads here to look at. This one and one under the Blu-ray software section. You can also send us email.
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post #98 of 162
2/7/11 at 6:59pm
i have a samsung 46b8500.... i understand it's best if i set my sharpness to 0... is that correct??? Help would be appreciated... thanx
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post #99 of 162
2/7/11 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deelow537 View Post

i have a samsung 46b8500.... i understand it's best if i set my sharpness to 0... is that correct??? Help would be appreciated... thanx

sharpness belongs where it doesn't effect the image, essentially the off position.

But the location of off is not necessarily 0 (it may be, I don't know).

To find out put up a sharpness pattern and adjust it till the image doesn't ring (artificial "halos" around the lines) and doesn't blur.
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post #100 of 162
2/7/11 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deelow537 View Post

i have a samsung 46b8500.... i understand it's best if i set my sharpness to 0... is that correct??? Help would be appreciated... thanx

That's the correct setting on mine: UN46B8500.

-Bill
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post #101 of 162
2/7/11 at 8:19pm
Thanx guys.... I keep it on 0...
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post #102 of 162
2/8/11 at 12:32am
Hi,

I've been playing with your disk for a while, but I'm afraid that I could use some help. My HTPC setup:

DVD Player - LG GGC-H20L
Video Card - nVidia 8400
TV - JVC 46FN97
DVD Software - TotalMedia Theater 3

Problems:
1) Regardless of the TV's brightness setting, the Pluge Low screen stays black. No bars on left or right. Pluge High shows the white border, but the inside box stays black.

2) On the Contrast screen, with "Picture" (eg. Contrast) at the lowest setting, I can only see the first two or three numbered white bars on the left side, and none of the black bars. Changing the brightness settings has no effect on this.

I've tried changing the nVidia settings from RGB to YCC, but this had no effect.

Any ideas??
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post #103 of 162
2/8/11 at 5:39am
The levels are being clipped by either by your graphics driver or by TotalMedia3.

NVIDIA was pretty good about not clipping, so it is possible that TM3 is asking for PC levels.

I can send mail to ArcSoft and see if they can anwer. I know someone there.
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post #104 of 162
2/8/11 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post


I can send mail to ArcSoft and see if they can anwer. I know someone there.

That would be great! The other equipment that I forgot to mention is the AV receiver between the HTPC and the TV. It's an Onkyo TX-SR606, and the signal is passed via HDMI from: HTPC --> Onkyo --> JVC.

Thanks for the help!
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post #105 of 162
2/8/11 at 8:54am
You should try bypassing the Onkyo to find out if it is causing any of the problems. Also, the JVC needs to go into expanded mode. By default it clips as well. I think it is in the HDMI menu.
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post #106 of 162
2/14/11 at 12:17pm
Hi, used the new S&M Blue Ray disc yesterday on a 42S2 Panasonic, that had D-Nice's SM offsets and UM applied. I took the TV and Blue Ray player in the laundry room (no windows), shut the door and proceeded to go through each screen. Is this the correct way to do it, or should the disc be used in a lighted room? By the way, the D-Nice settings were virtually right on, thanks,...Tom
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post #107 of 162
2/14/11 at 8:11pm
Quote:


Is this the correct way to do it, or should the disc be used in a lighted room?

Most controls can be calibrated in the dark. The brightness control should be calibrated under the viewing conditions. If you view in a dark room, calibrate it that way. You may need multiple brightness settings for different viewing enviroments. e.g. day vs. night.
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post #108 of 162
2/19/11 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

You should try bypassing the Onkyo to find out if it is causing any of the problems. Also, the JVC needs to go into expanded mode. By default it clips as well. I think it is in the HDMI menu.

Ok, I tried hooking the PC directly to the JVC, but it didn't make any difference. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "expanded mode". I don't see that option under any JVC menu setting.

Thanks!
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post #109 of 162
3/21/11 at 11:35am
Bought your disk and have used it to calibrate my 50" GT25. Contrast comes out very low compared to some of the other settings I have seen. Around a ""36" to get all the white bars except the last one at the bottom. I am using a Sony Bluray player to play the disk. Any idea why my contrast setting would be so low ?

Definitely a novice so I appreciate your patience in answering my questions.
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post #110 of 162
3/21/11 at 11:51am
Quote:


Any idea why my contrast setting would be so low ?

Because that is what the display is probably really capable of. Some people clip in order to get more contrast out of the display. The question is, is the display bright enough for you? Where did you end up setting brightness? These two controls interact with each other.

I have the VT20 and have contrast set to 42 and brightness set to 73. I am sending in 4:2:2 from the Panasonic BDT300.
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post #111 of 162
3/21/11 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Because that is what the display is probably really capable of. Some people clip in order to get more contrast out of the display. The question is, is the display bright enough for you? Where did you end up setting brightness? These two controls interact with each other.

I have the VT20 and have contrast set to 42 and brightness set to 73. I am sending in 4:2:2 from the Panasonic BDT300.

Brightness at 59. Display seems too dark for me. I'll take another stab at it see if it comes out any different. I read some of the supplemental articles on your website so have a little greater insight now. The main thing I am trying to improve is shadow detail although I realize that may require a full calibration to make a difference. Appreciate the quick response, thank you Stacey
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post #112 of 162
3/21/11 at 12:01pm
On the VT20, I used the THX picture mode as the starting point. Cinema/movie should be similar, if the GT25 does not have THX mode.
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post #113 of 162
3/21/11 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

On the VT20, I used the THX picture mode as the starting point. Cinema/movie should be similar, if the GT25 does not have THX mode.

Yes my set does have the THX mode and that is definitely the one I prefer.
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post #114 of 162
3/21/11 at 12:09pm
Shadow detail is a combination of gamma and brightness settings as well as artistic intent.
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post #115 of 162
3/21/11 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Shadow detail is a combination of gamma and brightness settings as well as artistic intent.

So shadow detail in the THX mode may be negatively impacted by the gamma ? Maybe I'd be better off calibrating and using custom for my TV viewing. The gamma is adjustable in the custom mode.
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post #116 of 162
3/21/11 at 1:05pm
THX does not use the proper gamma, but it will actually result in more shadow detail being seen than should be.
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post #117 of 162
3/21/11 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

THX does not use the proper gamma, but it will actually result in more shadow detail being seen than should be.

THX mode on the GT25 (post calibration) averages 2.19. If you consider 2.2 "proper" than I would say THX does meet that. If you don't consider 2.2 proper than of course it doesn't lol. I am not saying one is and one isnt Just stating data.
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post #118 of 162
3/21/11 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

So shadow detail in the THX mode may be negatively impacted by the gamma ? Maybe I'd be better off calibrating and using custom for my TV viewing. The gamma is adjustable in the custom mode.

Don't use Custom for critical viewing. Even with the Gamma being selectable in custom it is very very wonky. Also the gamut is fairly off from Rec. 709. What Custom is decent for is a "daytime mode". It can get very bright.

The GT25 (similar to the VT) does clip WTW at a pretty low light output level. Most of us in the GT20/25 thread generally set it in the 50 range. 55 gives me a ftL of 32, which is fine for dim/dark viewing.
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post #119 of 162
3/21/11 at 2:57pm
Quote:


I am not saying one is and one isnt

Understood. For the record, we consider 2.35 or 2.4 to be the correct display gamma for viewing movies in a light controlled room. If you watch sports, news, or your room is not light controlled, then 2.2. is a good gamma.
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post #120 of 162
3/21/11 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post
Understood. For the record, we consider 2.35 or 2.4 to be the correct display gamma for viewing movies in a light controlled room. If you watch sports, news, or your room is not light controlled, then 2.2. is a good gamma.
I concur lol.
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