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DIY Waveguide - With questions

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
A couple of months ago, I built some midbasses:



So I have 2 of those..

Each midbass is using a JBL 2226H driver, net volume is approx. 85 litres, and they are tuned to around 50hz. They are both run by a Behringer EP2500, getting around ~600watt each.


Im always lurking around on this forum.. and always end up with some urge to upgrade SOMETHING.This time I decided that I wanted new front speakers (My current front speakers are some Klipsch RF5s). One thing lead to another - and I decided I wanted to make myself some 2-way speakers, using horns/waveguides.

I got some tips from some forum members here, and started researching a bit about waveguides, and what they recommended.

This is what I have decided on:

- Use my midbasses as the "bottom", approx from ~50-1100hz
- BMS 4555s as tweeter/midrange, approx from ~1100-20khz
- Use my Behringer DCX2496 as an active crossover
- Power the BMS 4555s with my Emotiva XPA-3 (Approx 200watt each)
- Power the bottom end with a Behringer EP2500 (Approx 600watt each)
- Use an appropriate horn / waveguide !


I was originally going for a JBL Horn (PT-F95HF, JBL Pro part# 338650-001).
The US price is approx 100dollars.. That would be around 180$ getting it shipped to Norway (incl. taxes). But according to JBL, I should contact my closest JBL Pro-dealer (Which is located here in Norway)... Well, I did. They want 320$ for just ONE horn..

For the price I sell my RF5s for, I can cover all the costs for both the BMS compression drivers AND the JBL horns. So it's not a big deal for me to pay that much for the JBL Horns.

BUT.

This $20 dollar horn from QSC:
http://www.qscstore.com/hpr152hfhorn.html

Will this be much "worse" than the JBL horn?

Im just trying to "justify" buying the JBL horn.. opinions?
post #2 of 81
Quote:


This $20 dollar horn from QSC:
http://www.qscstore.com/hpr152hfhorn.html

Will this be much "worse" than the JBL horn?

Im just trying to "justify" buying the JBL horn.. opinions?

The QSC horn measured very, very well. Probably the best $$$ performance horn period.

The JBL horn will not measure better (IMO).

$20 now? Wow!! They have doubled the price, use to be $7

I have the QSC Horn/BMS 4550 drivers and Im currently building my speakers.
post #3 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

The QSC horn measured very, very well. Probably the best $$$ performance horn period.

The JBL horn will not measure better (IMO).

$20 now? Wow!! They have doubled the price, use to be $7

My bad. The QSC horn is 12.50 $.

I would save a lot of money buying the QSC Horn then. Will the BMS fit just as easily in the QSC Horn?

Im going to send QSC an email, hope they can ship to Norway
post #4 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

My bad. The QSC horn is 12.50 $.

I would save a lot of money buying the QSC Horn then. Will the BMS fit just as easily in the QSC Horn?

Im going to send QSC an email, hope they can ship to Norway

Yes the Bolt On BMS 4550 fits easily.

Read about Augerpro No Quaters (They use the QSC waveguide)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...816&highlight=

Augerpro did lots of great measurements too...found here.

http://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/Home
post #5 of 81
The QSC waveguides had been backordered but appear to be back in stock as I received my second order of them last week.
post #6 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by amik View Post

The QSC waveguides had been backordered but appear to be back in stock as I received my second order of them last week.

I better order maybe 10 more just in case
post #7 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I better order maybe 10 more just in case

Big plans, huh?

I've got 6, 4 from back when they were around $7, and 2 in the latest order. I figure that's two L-C-R sets.
post #8 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by amik View Post

Big plans, huh?

I've got 6, 4 from back when they were around $7, and 2 in the latest order. I figure that's two L-C-R sets.

I just like to have them just in case.
post #9 of 81
Yes, 4550.

I am currently working with the QSC HPR152 waveguide and B&C DE250 in the AK EconoWave thread.

As Augerpro found, mated with a 12" woofer, the usable (-6 dB) forward lobe is ~20° tall, and the forward axis must be appropriately aimed to avoid the vertical nulls in the crossover region....
post #10 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

- BMS 4555s as tweeter/midrange, approx from ~1100-20khz

This $20 dollar horn from QSC:
http://www.qscstore.com/hpr152hfhorn.html

The 4555 has a 1.5" exit. The QSC horn has a 1" throat. You'd need the 4550 to match the QSC.
post #11 of 81
Thread Starter 
My order has not been shipped yet, so I can switch from BMS 4555 to BMS4550.

I got a reply from QSC today, and I can't buy horns from them unless I contact my "local dealer where I bought the QSC speaker from, and tell them the serial number"...


So now im stuck with the expensive JBL horn, unless..

I don't like to ask about this, but I'll do it anyway. If anyone wouldn't mind buying some horns from QSC @ USA and ship to me (Norway), I would appreciate it. I will of course transfer money to you to handle everything + a little extra for the effort. Please shoot me a PM if you wouldn't mind doing that.
post #12 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

My order has not been shipped yet, so I can switch from BMS 4555 to BMS4550.

I got a reply from QSC today, and I can't buy horns from them unless I contact my "local dealer where I bought the QSC speaker from, and tell them the serial number"...


So now im stuck with the expensive JBL horn, unless..

I don't like to ask about this, but I'll do it anyway. If anyone wouldn't mind buying some horns from QSC @ USA and ship to me (Norway), I would appreciate it. I will of course transfer money to you to handle everything + a little extra for the effort. Please shoot me a PM if you wouldn't mind doing that.

I wonder if QSC is stopping us from purchasing now?

The QSC waveguides are really spare parts and a QSC rep has posted here saying that as long as we do not order too many they will not change anything.

Asking for the serial # is something new.

btw, I will order several today and if they do ship I will PM you. Although the shipping my be too much anyways???
post #13 of 81
Thread Starter 
320$ for just one JBL horn.

12.50$ for one QSC horn (excl. shipping)


As long as the shipping don't exceed ~150$ from USA - Norway (which I doubt), shipping cost shouldn't be an issue..


I contacted my local QSC dealer as well, he said he was going to try and get me the horns - but he wasn't very optimistic when I told him about the serial numbers they wanted. I will hear from him in 1-2 days.

My best bet is probably getting it from someone @ USA.
post #14 of 81
Quote:


My best bet is probably getting it from someone @ USA.


PM me!
post #15 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

PM me!

Done!



Btw, I assume it is the 8ohm version I want of the BMS 4550 ?
post #16 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

Done!



Btw, I assume it is the 8ohm version I want of the BMS 4550 ?

Thats your choice. I have the 8ohm versions myself.
post #17 of 81
helping myg out is very cool of you penn, very cool.
post #18 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Asking for the serial # is something new.

I was asked for it here too long before the QSC guy made his comments. I ended up getting them thru an Aussie company that has a US agent and address to on-ship for a small fee. IIRC, shipping to Oz for 4 was $US40 or so.
post #19 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I wonder if QSC is stopping us from purchasing now?

The QSC waveguides are really spare parts and a QSC rep has posted here saying that as long as we do not order too many they will not change anything.

Asking for the serial # is something new.

btw, I will order several today and if they do ship I will PM you. Although the shipping my be too much anyways???

They can't stop me from buying since I work for an AV integrating company and TAG (supplier of QSC Australia) is one of our main suppliers and I can just order them through work.
post #20 of 81
Thread Starter 
Tiny update:

Today I received my QSC horns from penngray!! Thanks again!!

Seeing that the QSC horns are out of stock until mid-march - I feel lucky staring at my QSC horns right now..


Here are some pictures:


Horns + BMS 4550s. Bluray cover as "size reference".


Some pictures of the BMS 4550s



A closer look



A capacitator I need for the 4550s.



For those wondering what the capacitator is good for:

When running active, it's always a good safety measure to put a blocking capacitor in series with the compression driver to suppress any system turn-on/turn-off thumps or DC from the amp, and operator errors. 33uF should work. -Zilch

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...150939&page=29



Hoping to start on this project rather soon, maybe in the weekend now.

I do plan on building a "box" to put the horn/compression driver in, and put it on top of my JBL 2226Hs. Looking forward trying to make it look like a decent looking speaker
post #21 of 81
Awesome!! I happy it all worked out!

I look forward to what crossovers you build for that waveguide/4550 combo since I have the same combo.
post #22 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

Tiny update:

Today I received my QSC horns from penngray!! Thanks again!!

Seeing that the QSC horns are out of stock until mid-march - I feel lucky staring at my QSC horns right now..

Awesome! I'm totally jealous!
post #23 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Awesome!! I happy it all worked out!

I look forward to what crossovers you build for that waveguide/4550 combo since I have the same combo.

I will be using an active crossover (DCX2496) - if that doesn't work out, I might build a passive crossover.
post #24 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

I will be using an active crossover (DCX2496) - if that doesn't work out, I might build a passive crossover.

Right, I remember that.

DCX is fine, I still would love to know all the settings because I will be intially using the DCX also.
post #25 of 81
Thread Starter 
My plan is to use a Behringer EP2500 for the bass, and an Emotiva XPA-3 for the tweeters. The tweeters will then have ~250watt each, and the bass ~600watt each. The reason I want to do it like this is because I can then boost the midbass to my own preference with the DCX2496, and I want as much headroom available as I can possibly have (I like to play loud!).

Is this a bad idea ? Will the 2 amps be so completely different sounding that I will just mess up the sound ? Any opinions about this ?
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

Is this a bad idea ? Will the 2 amps be so completely different sounding that I will just mess up the sound ? Any opinions about this ?

It will be fine. The differences between well designed SS amps are truly trivial.
post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

My plan is to use a Behringer EP2500 for the bass, and an Emotiva XPA-3 for the tweeters. The tweeters will then have ~250watt each, and the bass ~600watt each. The reason I want to do it like this is because I can then boost the midbass to my own preference with the DCX2496, and I want as much headroom available as I can possibly have (I like to play loud!).

Is this a bad idea ? Will the 2 amps be so completely different sounding that I will just mess up the sound ? Any opinions about this ?

I have run pro amps with my bass bins for years and outlaw monoblock amps with my Mid/tweeters. Like you, I like the extra power pro amps have for my bass bins and it allows me to increase the output to my bassbin so I do not need to Lpad my tweeters.

btw, I would not change the gain on the DCX though, I would use amps with volume controls or external volume controls.
post #28 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I have run pro amps with my bass bins for years and outlaw monoblock amps with my Mid/tweeters. Like you, I like the extra power pro amps have for my bass bins and it allows me to increase the output to my bassbin so I do not need to Lpad my tweeters.

btw, I would not change the gain on the DCX though, I would use amps with volume controls or external volume controls.

How come you wouldn't use the gain on the DCX ?


I also got some 33uF capacitators that needs to be wired up. Is it just to run a wire from the "+" from one tweeter to the capacitator, and run the wire from the capacitator -> amp ?
post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myggpower View Post

I also got some 33uF capacitators that needs to be wired up. Is it just to run a wire from the "+" from one tweeter to the capacitator, and run the wire from the capacitator -> amp ?

yes. a protective capacitor is wired in series with the driver.

example: amp (-) to driver (-) driver (+) through capacitor to amp (+).
post #30 of 81
I bought 47uF capacitors to protect my beyma CP380m cd's. Would this value be too high? or should I step down to the 33uF values like everyone else here?
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