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Gigabit network for upcoming Uverse install

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I am converting from Roadrunner to Uverse. My Roadrunner cable modem is located upstairs in my office. It is served by the coax cable. I have three computers in the office running on a gigabit network. Best I can determine the 2wire Residential Gateway (RG) doesn't yet support gigabit. If true this means I will have to install my own gigabit switch, and I believe this means the RG will have to be physically located in my office. I have two questions:

1. Will the installer be able to feed the RG from my existing coax cable?

2. How will I connect my gigabit switch to the RG?
post #2 of 16
If you have your 3 computers connected to a gigabit switch now, just leave them as-is, and connect the uplink from that switch to the RG. Even if the RG is located in another room, and/or only has a 10/100 port, your computers will still talk to each other at 1Gb. You don't really need the RG to be gigabit anyway, as its connection speed is limited by your Internet bandwidth, anyway.

Uverse is a high speed DSL, so the RG will connect to the incoming DSL (phone) line. It should have one or more Ethernet jacks to connect to your existing network.

Jeff
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks Jeff, that was exactly the information I needed.
post #4 of 16
Just a point of clarification. GigE switches typically don't have dedicated uplink ports. Especially consumer grade switches. Uplink ports on switches are either a faster port than the rest of the ports on the switches or are fiber ports. Since the next fastest speed for GigE switches would be 10Gb, this eliminates many GigE switches from having a faster uplink port.

With modern switches, you can use any available port on the switch to connect to other switches and routers. But out of pure convention so you can keep track of what connection is what, people tend to either use the first port or the last port on the switch.
post #5 of 16
I have a similar setup that Im having trouble with I think. I just bought a Gigabit Switch to connect to my Wireless G router since I didn't want to upgrade to a wireless N+ router with Gig ports. So here is what I have Cable Modem connected to Wireless Router/ Router connected to Gig Switch / Gig switch connected to Gig port on PC and Gig port on NAS Hard drive. The lights on my switch so my 2 green lights where my Gig equipment is located and one orange light were my DVD player is hooked up. Seems correct to me. Problem is when I try to copy a 2.5 Gig file of pictures from my PC to my NAS the transfer speed shows 20MB/sec. That should be much higher shouldn't it???

Do I Need to go from my modem to the switch first and then to the router? I tried that first and was unable to get both my wireless and the wired internet working at the same time. hooking it up the way I have now seems to allow both to work together. Help
post #6 of 16
You're probably running the NAS disk as fast as it can go... Your network is probably fine, and by your description it is wired correctly. Just to be sure, check that your PC is actually reporting (Control Panel) that your connection speed is 1Gb, and that your NAS is truly a 1Gb connection.

Jeff
post #7 of 16
There's more to getting Gig performance than just the network. You have to look at the associated hardware. Even though the hardware has a Gig port, it doesn't mean the device can actually keep up with the performance available from a Gig network. One of the biggest factor of I/O performance is the hard drive sub system.

As a data point, I have a custom built fileserver which transfers at about 40-50 MB/s. It could be higher due to the limitation of my client box doing the other end of the transfer.
post #8 of 16
Thanks you for the reply, So what your saying is the speed of my drive in my NAS is only good for 20MB/S ? what was the point of spending the money on a Gig network then. I get nearly those speeds when I copy large files from one external hard drive to another through USB. Right now I have been copying my movie files ( over 800GB ) from a 1 TB hard drive hooked up to my computer through USB to my NAS, is it possible the speed is determined by the 1TB drive and not the NAS? Woud it be faster if it was coming directly off the Computer which is Gigabit to the NAS which is Gigabit?
post #9 of 16
I guess I wasn't clear with my explanation. To get ultimate performance out of a Gig network, you have to look at both ends of the communication. In your case, it would mean your NAS and your client computer. Your NAS may be fast enough to utilize the Gig throughput, but your client computer may not. There are so many variables to doing performance testing such as at the time you were transfering files, was your computer doing something which was consuming I/O from the hard drive, PCI/PCIe bus, CPU cycles, etc, etc. If you want to determine if your NAS is bottlenecking, get another computer and do another transfer. You shouldn't see a huge dip in performance when you calculate throughput. If you do, then you have your answer that your NAS isn't keeping up. Also, you want to transfer a large file because multiple small files will not saturate any fast link.
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallhometheater View Post

Thanks you for the reply, So what your saying is the speed of my drive in my NAS is only good for 20MB/S ? what was the point of spending the money on a Gig network then. I get nearly those speeds when I copy large files from one external hard drive to another through USB. Right now I have been copying my movie files ( over 800GB ) from a 1 TB hard drive hooked up to my computer through USB to my NAS, is it possible the speed is determined by the 1TB drive and not the NAS? Woud it be faster if it was coming directly off the Computer which is Gigabit to the NAS which is Gigabit?

I am no networking expert by any means, but I have always thought thinking about bandwith in these situations is helpful. Wiring a network with cat5e means that the cable (per spec) has enough bandwith to handle transfers at a gigabit per second. Note that there is a difference between bits and bytes. A byte contains 8 bits, and it due to the need for header and footer references it is generally expected that it takes 10 bits to make up a byte. That means that before any other factors are considered, the maximum theoretical transfer speed you can get is 100 megabytes per second.

Now you have to consider the components that are interfacing with that network cable. Gigabit rated network switches are supposed to have enough bandwith for 1 Gbits/s, as are gigabit networking cards. There shouldn't be too much loss in transfer speed if you are using gigabit components, but when you consider all the negotiating that goes on at each device some degradation in transfer speeds should be expected. The final component in this is the devices receiving and sending the data (typically two computers or a computer and a server). Within these devices, ram and processor speed make a slight difference, but the primary factor is the hard drive bus and the hard drive itself. Per wikipedia, the first SATA spec (SATA-150) is capable of 1.2 Gbit/s and SATA2 (SATA-300) is capable of twice that at 2.4 Gbit/s. Again consider that this is the maximum transfer rate possible (in bits, not bytes) assuming no other limiting factors. You can search around for the components that effect real world transfers the most and see if you can upgrade those to improve your speeds, but its good to know the theoretical bandwith of all of your components before you start thinking about real world transfer speeds.

Also, per wikipedia a usb 2.0 device is specd to be capable of 480 Mbit/s, which means you should theoretically expect a transfer rate of around 48 megabytes per second assuming no other bottlenecks. The fact that you get around 20 megabytes in the real world with two devices directly connected through usb shows the impact that real world factors can have. Also, if you are going to compare transfer speeds while adding in a peripheral device, you have to consider that transfer times are essentially doubled as you have to first write to the peripheral, and then write that peripheral to the server or computer. Direct network connections are superior because they only need to transfer the files once, which effectively doubles your transfer speed right there.
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by antiinf View Post

I am no networking expert by any means, but I have always thought thinking about bandwith in these situations is helpful. Wiring a network with cat5e means that the cable (per spec) has enough bandwith to handle transfers at a gigabit per second. Note that there is a difference between bits and bytes. A byte contains 8 bits, and it due to the need for header and footer references it is generally expected that it takes 10 bits to make up a byte. That means that before any other factors are considered, the maximum theoretical transfer speed you can get is 100 megabytes per second.

Now you have to consider the components that are interfacing with that network cable. Gigabit rated network switches are supposed to have enough bandwith for 1 Gbits/s, as are gigabit networking cards. There shouldn't be too much loss in transfer speed if you are using gigabit components, but when you consider all the negotiating that goes on at each device some degradation in transfer speeds should be expected. The final component in this is the devices receiving and sending the data (typically two computers or a computer and a server). Within these devices, ram and processor speed make a slight difference, but the primary factor is the hard drive bus and the hard drive itself. Per wikipedia, the first SATA spec (SATA-150) is capable of 1.2 Gbit/s and SATA2 (SATA-300) is capable of twice that at 2.4 Gbit/s. Again consider that this is the maximum transfer rate possible (in bits, not bytes) assuming no other limiting factors. You can search around for the components that effect real world transfers the most and see if you can upgrade those to improve your speeds, but its good to know the theoretical bandwith of all of your components before you start thinking about real world transfer speeds.

Also, per wikipedia a usb 2.0 device is specd to be capable of 480 Mbit/s, which means you should theoretically expect a transfer rate of around 48 megabytes per second assuming no other bottlenecks. The fact that you get around 20 megabytes in the real world with two devices directly connected through usb shows the impact that real world factors can have. Also, if you are going to compare transfer speeds while adding in a peripheral device, you have to consider that transfer times are essentially doubled as you have to first write to the peripheral, and then write that peripheral to the server or computer. Direct network connections are superior because they only need to transfer the files once, which effectively doubles your transfer speed right there.

I don't know what you mean by "all the negotiating" going on in a network. While the network protocol (I assume TCP/IP) will had some overhead, it's not going to knock down the performance of a Gig network by the margins we're talking about here. The file sharing protocol can add some overhead depending on the type you use. NFS tends to be the most efficient while CIFS is very chatty. Again, these protocols will add something to the overhead but again not by the margin we're talking about here. The only time I can see a LAN connection suffer from anything the network is doing is due to frame sizing issues where the frames are fragmented in such a way the sending and receiving ends have to spend CPU cycles chopping up the data and reassembling it. But again, this situation shouldn't occur if everything is the default settings.

The advertised throughput of the SATA drives is the potential I/O of the bus. Whether the drive can actually utilize that through put is another story. What determines the real world I/O are things like cache, density of the data on the platter, the number of platters, where the data is located on the platters, and the spindle speed. This is why enterprise storage solutions have multiple physical drives grouped together in a logical unit. The more spindles you throw at a storage system, the faster your performance is going to be and is captured in a benchmark called IOPS.

As for USB, USB is a shared bus architecture. Assuming ideal theoretical situations, the 480 Mbit/s throughput drops as you add USB devices to the bus.
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallhometheater View Post

Thanks you for the reply, So what your saying is the speed of my drive in my NAS is only good for 20MB/S ? what was the point of spending the money on a Gig network then.

Yes, it's very possible you've reached the max throughput of the NAS.

Quote:


I get nearly those speeds when I copy large files from one external hard drive to another through USB. Right now I have been copying my movie files ( over 800GB ) from a 1 TB hard drive hooked up to my computer through USB to my NAS, is it possible the speed is determined by the 1TB drive and not the NAS? Woud it be faster if it was coming directly off the Computer which is Gigabit to the NAS which is Gigabit?

Yes, the throughput of the NAS is very likely limited by the speed of a single SATA hard drive. Since the bandwidth of both USB and gigabit Ethernet are both higher than a single SATA drive can consume, you probably won't see a performance difference between the two methods.

Jeff
post #13 of 16
I appreciate all the information you guys have given me. I know my equipment isn't top dollar, I'm using a Dell Studio hybrid computer ( basically a laptop in desktop clothing ) with a 5400 rpm drive. I've connected that computer to my Gig switch and then directly connected my Seagate Black Armor NAS 1TB to the switch as well. I have a Toshiba 1TB external USB drive connected to my computer that was holding all my ripped movies (868 GB worth of data ) I've done two transfers since buying this Gigabit equipment. The first transfer was taking all 868 GB of movies from USB drive to Network drive which took 11 hours overnight to complete getting approx 21.5 MB/s speed. The next transfer I tried was C drive of computer to USB external of approx 5 GB movie and this was giving me only 10 MB/s speed so I was wrong when i said I was getting nearly 20 MB/s from USB. My switch has some 10/100 connections like my Blu-ray could that be slowing it down? I'm pretty sure the ports act independently from each other since I see green lights for the Gig connections and Amber for the 10/100. I guess I have to deal with the speed until I upgrade my router to the N+ with Gig ports and see if that has any effect what so ever. Perhaps my switch just isn't that good. Thanks again
post #14 of 16
No, all links on a switch operate independently, you won't be affecting a gigabit link by having another link at 10/100. But all of this still points to you just reaching the limits of the single-disk inexpensive NAS box's throughput. Spending more money on networking gear won't help that. Note that copying a terabyte is still going to take a long time - do you think you're going to be copying that much data very often? If you're making a backup or trying to synchronize the drives, take a look at a better file copy approach that will do a sync instead of a blind re-copy. Same for backup software...

Jeff
post #15 of 16
Great question, and to give you an answer, NO I won't be copying that much data very often, usually only when I get a larger Hard drive as money allows I copy what I used to have on one drive to the larger drive. I guess the next time I look to buy another NAS drive I'll check into what drive would be better equiped to take advantage of the Gig network. Any input on what single or multi drive NAS works well.
post #16 of 16
Multi-disk arrays won't necessarily increase write performance (copy to), but will increase read performance. Bigger jump comes from moving to SAS (Serial SCSI) rather than SATA - it's a matter of "enterprise class" drives, not so much the interface, but they tend to go together. They can be 2-4 times the throughput of a consumer-class SATA drive... But you get what you pay for, here, as they will be considerably more expensive, and so will the NAS infrastructure to use them. But even at 4x the performance, copying a 1 or 2TB disk will take quite a while - so if it's not frequent, just set it on its way and come back in the morning (whether it takes 4 or 8 or 12 hours probably doesn't matter for most of our purposes). Meaning - it's not like you're going to stand there waiting for it, so having it finish at 3am instead of 8am probably isn't worth paying extra for...

Jeff
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