AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Klipsch VF36 v Infinity Primus P362
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Klipsch VF36 v Infinity Primus P362

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
I'm finally upgrading my theater room from my old HTIB Onkyo's to decent fronts and centers. I went out to Best Buy yesterday and listened to the Klipsch VF36 and it sounded very nice with its matching center. However, at $475 a speaker its a little more than I had anticipated. I have a $400 BB gift card though so I can offset that some.

I see that Fry's is offering the Infinity Primus P362's for $150 each, so I can buy a set for less than one Klipsch. I'm seeing good reviews for them, but am wondering if there sound compares at all to the Klipsch? The price is right, but I lose the ability to use the BB gift card to buy them. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with both of these speakers?
post #2 of 42
Thread Starter 
I'm probably not going to be upgrading my sub for some time, so I'm still using the "okay" one from the Onkyo HTIB and will be for a while. Not sure if that makes a difference in the selection of these speakers or not.
post #3 of 42
I have owned a couple Infinity speakers. To me they sound neutral. Klipsch to me are harsh. I really don't like horn speakers, at least not the ones I can afford. The Infinitys you are looking at are nice speakers. Sound much more expensive than they are.

If you LOVE the Klipsch get them. If you only just like them I would continue looking. Everyone will like different speakers.
post #4 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

I see that Fry's is offering the Infinity Primus P362's for $150 each, so I can buy a set for less than one Klipsch. I'm seeing good reviews for them, but am wondering if there sound compares at all to the Klipsch?

The question is the other way around. Check the Primus owner's thread for details. I've written a lot there about the logic behind why the Primus 360 is the least risky way to spend $1k on speakers today. Take advantage of Infinity's stellar engineering and poor marketing.

Check out these articles. Better information than typical "expert" reviews.

http://www.tmworld.com/article/323681-Sound_science.php
http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...D=White papers
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/0...-listener.html
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/0...tions-are.html
post #5 of 42
Thread Starter 
Thanks Mark thats good information! There seems to be a fairly general consensus that the Infinity's offer enormous bang for the buck in the very least. Sounds like its worth saving $500 on the set to go with them over the Klipsch VS36.

What center should I match these with? Fry's doesn't have any Infinity centers for me to listen to, but lots of Polk. Would these match well with a Klipsch VC-25?
post #6 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Thanks Mark thats good information! There seems to be a fairly general consensus that the Infinity's offer enormous bang for the buck in the very least. Sounds like its worth saving $500 on the set to go with them over the Klipsch VS36.

What center should I match these with? Fry's doesn't have any Infinity centers for me to listen to, but lots of Polk. Would these match well with a Klipsch VC-25?


Another P362 would be best. But if you need a more conventional center, look at the Infinity PC350.
post #7 of 42
Thread Starter 
Yeah another PC362 wouldn't work as this is going into a theater room and there's no room on the floor beneath the screen for a standing speaker. Would be nice thought given the $150 price I can get at Fry's.

Fry's doesn't seem to sell the 350. I've got this Best Buy gift certificate I'd like to use for the center unless its going to sound horrible with the Infinity speakers. Looks like my only options there are Klipsch, Polk, and Sony.
post #8 of 42
You can get that center at theaudiovideosource.com for $150. I don't know about the shipping costs though. They say they are b-stock or refurbished. That is the only place I know to get that center or ebay.
post #9 of 42
Thread Starter 
Crtchfield seems to have the C350 for $199 but I'll check the other for a cheaper price.

I guess the other question is do I even really need floorstanding speakers? My room is 10 x 18 and sitting area is about 16 feet from screen. Would bookshelves work just as well and save money?
post #10 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Yeah another PC362 wouldn't work as this is going into a theater room and there's no room on the floor beneath the screen for a standing speaker. Would be nice thought given the $150 price I can get at Fry's.

Fry's doesn't seem to sell the 350. I've got this Best Buy gift certificate I'd like to use for the center unless its going to sound horrible with the Infinity speakers. Looks like my only options there are Klipsch, Polk, and Sony.

The best place to get the center is on E-bay from the Harman store. That's also the best place to get surrounds (in-wall, in-ceiling or bookshelf). The Audioholics store sells Infinity but their prices are not super competitive.
post #11 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Crtchfield seems to have the C350 for $199 but I'll check the other for a cheaper price.

I guess the other question is do I even really need floorstanding speakers? My room is 10 x 18 and sitting area is about 16 feet from screen. Would bookshelves work just as well and save money?

Floorstanding speakers prevent the need to buy stands which allows you to put the money towards speakers and not stands.

The P362's with a PC350 are perfectly matched for your fronts and are terrific speakers under $500. I don't think you could match the sound/speaker quality in that price range.

Google "Retail me not" and search crutchfield.com and you'll get the price down a few dollars on the center.
post #12 of 42
I would defintiely go with the Infinity's and put the savings towards a good subwoofer from eD, SVS, HSU, etc. The subwoofer is an essential component of home theater. Plan on spending $350-600.
post #13 of 42
The Klipsch sound is unique, with the horn-loaded design. Seeing as you liked that sound, you may want to look into BIC Acoustech. They are very similar in sound and design to the Klipsch, without paying for the Klipsch name. They are comparable in price to the P362, so while you would not be able to utilize your gift card at BB, you would be saving money regardless.

I would recommend either the PL-89 or PL-76, depending on how much you want to spend.

PL-89: http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...3/product.html

PL-76: http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...1/product.html

If you went with the PL-89, the matching center is the PL-28: http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...0/product.html

And the matching center to the PL-76 is the PL-26: http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...9/product.html
post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I would defintiely go with the Infinity's and put the savings towards a good subwoofer from eD, SVS, HSU, etc. The subwoofer is an essential component of home theater. Plan on spending $350-600.

This is almost exactly what I am doing. With a HSU sub. They are a hsu in! LOL.
post #15 of 42
I am testing out TST1, TC2 and TSBL's form The Speaker Company. I don't feel I 'm getting the crispness I wanted so I am considering returning them and getting the P362 and PC350 center...and maybe keeping the TSBL's as my surrounds. I have a BIC F12 due here on 12/29. My avr is a Denon 1910.

Does anyone have any comparisons to the P362 and TST1's?

Would it be okay to keep the TSBL as surrounds?

Are the P362's good for music, i.e. 2.1? I will be using 70/30, HT/Music

I cant seem to find somewhere in San Antonio to get a listen to the P362's.

Thanks.
post #16 of 42
Thread Starter 
Wrench in the works. I went out to Fry's to listen to the P362's. There wasn't a center to listen to, but something about the sound just wasn't right. He played some music and the snare drum had a tinny quality to it at the top of the "hit" that wasn't quite right.

After looking at that the guy at Fry's had me check out the Polk RTi A1 bookshelves with a Polk CSi A4 center channel. They sounded really good to me and was definitely a better musical sound.

Fry's has the set of the RTi A1's for $329, the CSi A4 for $279, and they're running a promo to give me a PSW111 sub for free if I buy both. So for $600 I could have these and a sub (given, a small one). It seems like a pretty good deal to me, and while I couldn't fully compare them to the Klipsch (which are at Best Buy) or the Inifinity (which were in another sound room) they seem like great speakers for the price. I'm all about being talked out of the Polk's though if there's something I'm missing. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks for helping the noob guys!
post #17 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Wrench in the works. I went out to Fry's to listen to the P362's. There wasn't a center to listen to, but something about the sound just wasn't right. He played some music and the snare drum had a tinny quality to it at the top of the "hit" that wasn't quite right.

After looking at that the guy at Fry's had me check out the Polk RTi A1 bookshelves with a Polk CSi A4 center channel. They sounded really good to me and was definitely a better musical sound.

Fry's has the set of the RTi A1's for $329, the CSi A4 for $279, and they're running a promo to give me a PSW111 sub for free if I buy both. So for $600 I could have these and a sub (given, a small one). It seems like a pretty good deal to me, and while I couldn't fully compare them to the Klipsch (which are at Best Buy) or the Inifinity (which were in another sound room) they seem like great speakers for the price. I'm all about being talked out of the Polk's though if there's something I'm missing. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks for helping the noob guys!


Several thoughts:
1) Keep in mind that a speaker is creating sound waves and those sound waves are being modified by the room. So, you're hearing a lot of room when you hear the demo.

2) Was the receiver you were using to do the demo in plain old stereo mode, or was there some eq or other setting that was messing with the sound in some subtle way?

3) Were you listening to music with which you are very familiar? That's also one of the better pieces of advice when it comes to demoing with music. It helps to know what that snare sounds like if you've listened to it a gazillion times on many different systems.

4) High fidelity listening is something of a learned skill. In properly conducted double blind tests, you'd most likely prefer the better speaker if your hearing is unimpaired. However, as a noob it will take you longer to develop that preference and to hear the flaws in other speakers.

5) Sighted evaluations are inherently inaccurate. Sean Olive writes of a study in which several speakers were tested blind at the lab which he runs for Harman (the guys who make the Primus 362's):

"the sighted and blind loudspeaker listening tests in this study produced significantly different sound quality ratings. The psychological biases in the sighted tests were sufficiently strong that listeners were largely unresponsive to real changes in sound quality caused by acoustical interactions between the loudspeaker, its position in the room, and the program material. In other words, if you want to obtain an accurate and reliable measure of how the audio product truly sounds, the listening test must be done blind."

Here's the full post at his blog.

And one more that's interesting.

Unfortunately we all don't have double blind testing labs, huh? The bottom line is that you should buy what you enjoy most. However, if you are interested in buying the better product, the P362 is that product. Think of it in terms of many other things we buy: sometimes what is immediately gratifying is not that which will be gratifying in the long term. Most people don't start out liking expensive wines, coffee, beer, cars or clothes. They learn what "good" is over time. Most of us liked jam boxes and chest-thumping car stereos when we started out. We 'trusted our ears' but then we heard something better and realized that our ears could learn. The same thing happened to many of us with graphic equalizers. When I started out in this hobby several decades ago, it was cool to have a graphic equalizer and boost the bass and treble and cut the midrange. That sounded "good" to this listener for a long time. Then I heard some Energy speakers playing in a local shop and heard real stereo imaging for the first time, and from then on I was on a quest for what 'good' sound was.

Hope this helps.
post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Wrench in the works. I went out to Fry's to listen to the P362's. There wasn't a center to listen to, but something about the sound just wasn't right. He played some music and the snare drum had a tinny quality to it at the top of the "hit" that wasn't quite right.

After looking at that the guy at Fry's had me check out the Polk RTi A1 bookshelves with a Polk CSi A4 center channel. They sounded really good to me and was definitely a better musical sound.

Fry's has the set of the RTi A1's for $329, the CSi A4 for $279, and they're running a promo to give me a PSW111 sub for free if I buy both. So for $600 I could have these and a sub (given, a small one). It seems like a pretty good deal to me, and while I couldn't fully compare them to the Klipsch (which are at Best Buy) or the Inifinity (which were in another sound room) they seem like great speakers for the price. I'm all about being talked out of the Polk's though if there's something I'm missing. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks for helping the noob guys!

That's a crazy price for entry level speakers. I would do some more listening with your own music. The Rtis are known to be bright and the polk subs don't get good reviews on here.

Rtis: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17712246

PSW: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post17715439
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Wrench in the works. I went out to Fry's to listen to the P362's. There wasn't a center to listen to, but something about the sound just wasn't right. He played some music and the snare drum had a tinny quality to it at the top of the "hit" that wasn't quite right.

After looking at that the guy at Fry's had me check out the Polk RTi A1 bookshelves with a Polk CSi A4 center channel. They sounded really good to me and was definitely a better musical sound.

Fry's has the set of the RTi A1's for $329, the CSi A4 for $279, and they're running a promo to give me a PSW111 sub for free if I buy both. So for $600 I could have these and a sub (given, a small one). It seems like a pretty good deal to me, and while I couldn't fully compare them to the Klipsch (which are at Best Buy) or the Inifinity (which were in another sound room) they seem like great speakers for the price. I'm all about being talked out of the Polk's though if there's something I'm missing. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thanks for helping the noob guys!

I recently went from a pair of Polk rti series towers and matching center to SVS SCS-01 fronts and center. It set me back about $629 shipped. The SVS speakers are, IMHO, much better speakers than the Polk towers and center (which I paid more for than the SVS speakers).

You really should consider internet direct speaker companies in the mix (HSU, SVS, Ascend, Emotiva, etc).

As for the Polk subwoofer, stay away. Again, this is coming from somebody who purchased not one, but two. I simply bought into the Polk name from a big box retailer, and did not understand subwoofers at the time. If you want a subwoofer, consider internet direct from a company like SVS, HSU, Epik, Elemental Designs, etc. It is, literally, a night and day difference between my Polk sub and my Elemental Designs sub that I own now.
post #20 of 42
Thread Starter 
Yikes, I think it was easier deciding a career path, wife, and political/religious philosophy than it is to choose speakers!!! LOL.

The online speakers sound intriguing, but I hate that I can't hear them in advance. Can I get a good idea of how they compare by just looking at the specs? If so, what specs are important and how should I compare them? Getting some thoughts on that would be a good learning experience for me. I'm an EE (though more of a digital expert than analog) so getting down to brass tacks on the science would make me more comfortable.

I really appreciate markwriter's passion for Infinity, and I probably should go back and listen with music I know (they were playing Radiohead songs I was unfamiliar with, and not particularly my style). A movie would be even better but Fry's didn't have one for me to watch. They did have a movie in the room with the Polk's and showed me a scene from KungFu Panda with the Jaguar escaping. The sound of the arrows and spears slamming into concrete along with the Jaguar claws really did impress me and sold me on the validity of the RTi A1 speakers.

If I do go with a lower cost sub (something under $300) where should I look, and again what specs are important to note?
post #21 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Yikes, I think it was easier deciding a career path, wife, and political/religious philosophy than it is to choose speakers!!! LOL.

The online speakers sound intriguing, but I hate that I can't hear them in advance. Can I get a good idea of how they compare by just looking at the specs? If so, what specs are important and how should I compare them? Getting some thoughts on that would be a good learning experience for me. I'm an EE (though more of a digital expert than analog) so getting down to brass tacks on the science would make me more comfortable.

I really appreciate markwriter's passion for Infinity, and I probably should go back and listen with music I know (they were playing Radiohead songs I was unfamiliar with, and not particularly my style). A movie would be even better but Fry's didn't have one for me to watch. They did have a movie in the room with the Polk's and showed me a scene from KungFu Panda with the Jaguar escaping. The sound of the arrows and spears slamming into concrete along with the Jaguar claws really did impress me and sold me on the validity of the RTi A1 speakers.

If I do go with a lower cost sub (something under $300) where should I look, and again what specs are important to note?

Yes, you really should go with music you are familiar with, through similarly powered receivers, and NO TO MOVIES. Movies are a valid way to test a subwoofer IMO they are relatively worthless for testing speakers.

BTW, If I sold speakers, I would put the higher margin ones in the better room.

Ron

Ron
post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

Yes, you really should go with music you are familiar with, through similarly powered receivers, and NO TO MOVIES. Movies are a valid way to test a subwoofer IMO they are relatively worthless for testing speakers.

BTW, If I sold speakers, I would put the higher margin ones in the better room.

Ron

Those are both very good points.

It's also interesting to note that at Harman they double-blind test speakers in mono and in groups of four because differences stand out more that way. That's pretty far removed from what we're able to do as customers in a showroom.
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Yikes, I think it was easier deciding a career path, wife, and political/religious philosophy than it is to choose speakers!!! LOL.

The online speakers sound intriguing, but I hate that I can't hear them in advance. Can I get a good idea of how they compare by just looking at the specs? If so, what specs are important and how should I compare them? Getting some thoughts on that would be a good learning experience for me. I'm an EE (though more of a digital expert than analog) so getting down to brass tacks on the science would make me more comfortable.

I really appreciate markwriter's passion for Infinity, and I probably should go back and listen with music I know (they were playing Radiohead songs I was unfamiliar with, and not particularly my style). A movie would be even better but Fry's didn't have one for me to watch. They did have a movie in the room with the Polk's and showed me a scene from KungFu Panda with the Jaguar escaping. The sound of the arrows and spears slamming into concrete along with the Jaguar claws really did impress me and sold me on the validity of the RTi A1 speakers.

If I do go with a lower cost sub (something under $300) where should I look, and again what specs are important to note?

Buying internet direct speakers can seem a little scary, but most of these companies have been around for years and years. They are not fly-by-night. There are tons of reviews out there and almost all of them offer you a money back guarantee if you are not satisfied. Worse case you pay back the return shipping.

I would also stress to be very careful how a speaker sounds in a store/showroom. Chances are that store environment will be vastly different from your environment at home and speakers can sound very different based on space and acoustics and the receiver/amp driving them. If you do buy a speaker at a local store make sure you are aware of their return policy and restocking fees.

As for subwoofers on the spec side you should be looking for frequency ranges and SPL (ie how low a frequency can the sub play at what SPL and when does the sub drop off?). If you are into movies, more and more soundtracks seem to be hitting in the lower frequency ranges. I personally would not buy a sub that could not extend in the 20hz range with authority. You just won't find that with most big box stores and subs from companies like Polk and Klipsch in your range. Internet direct will be your best bet. $325 shipped would get you this sub:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=406

Another $25 would get you the A2-300.
post #24 of 42
Thread Starter 
Sounds like the consensus is that I need to give the Infinity's another shot and get a center for them online. That sound about right? I can get two Infinity P362s at Fry's for $300, and then a center online for ~$200 so thats already a savings of $120 over the Polk, though I don't get a sub like I would with the Polks. I realize the Polk sub is junk, but hey its something.

I think I'm going to go to Best Buy and listen to Klipsch VF-15s against the Polk RTI A1's and see how those sound as well.
post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Sounds like the consensus is that I need to give the Infinity's another shot and get a center for them online. That sound about right? I can get two Infinity P362s at Fry's for $300, and then a center online for ~$200 so thats already a savings of $120 over the Polk, though I don't get a sub like I would with the Polks. I realize the Polk sub is junk, but hey its something.

I think I'm going to go to Best Buy and listen to Klipsch VF-15s against the Polk RTI A1's and see how those sound as well.

One good thing about Fry's is that you can return for any reason in 30 days (confirm this before you try it!). So it would be pretty easy to take them home and live with them for a while.
post #26 of 42
Thread Starter 
True, but they don't have the center for sale there. Would have to get that online and wouldn't be able to live/not live with that.
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

True, but they don't have the center for sale there. Would have to get that online and wouldn't be able to live/not live with that.

Good point. I'm not a fan of center channels. Unless you're sitting way off to the side, they don't do much.
post #28 of 42
Thread Starter 
Not a fan of center channels?? Aren't those one of the most important components???
post #29 of 42
Thread Starter 
Speaking of which, they do have the Infinity V C3 at Frys for 239. Would that match these fronts?
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiemundo View Post

Not a fan of center channels?? Aren't those one of the most important components???

In a way they are, in a way the aren't. If you or other folks are sitting way off to the side, the center channel is important for anchoring the sound in the center. That is truly important. But if no one is sitting far to the side, then the benefit of having a center channel is negligible at best, and in many cases (in this price range) it's worse. I've tried about a dozen center setups, and in no case did the center ever outperform two stereo speakers when I was sitting in the sweet spot. A center sounds a little different, but definitely not better.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Klipsch VF36 v Infinity Primus P362