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The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 46

post #1351 of 2757
2/17/12 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
I stacked the top and bottom of the front wall cabinet so I could rough mark where the 1x2 dividers will go. That will hopefully help keep me square and give me some to eye as I align the top and bottom.



Then I installed some corner supports. I wished I wouldn't have used the soft pine, but I had sitting there. I added some cleats to help keep the vertical 3/4" mdf supports square.


I used the Kreg drill bit to make these recessed screw holes.


Finally, I attached the top to the corner supports to get the two pieces aligned properly. The 4x4's are just temporary. I need to install the 1x2's first before I can add the 3/4" MDF supports behind them.
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post #1352 of 2757
2/17/12 at 7:25am
Thread Starter 
Regarding the not so straight 1x2's. I had an idea to move to 1x3's which seem to be a little more straighter. But I reviewed my 1x2 stock and picked up a couple more. I think I can stick with the 1x2's and just have a little more scrap. I was able to get two straight pieces from an 8' length. I moved a 2' straight along the length until I found the best area to cut from.

I'll be screwing into the maple, so I'll clamp some straight edges on each side of them as well before screwing them in to ensure they are straight.

Just for kicks though, I'm going to try running the crooked piece through the planar just to see how it turns out and use it as a learning experience.

Here's the table saw I borrowed from my brother. It's definitely on the lower end.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_167737-46922...7C1&facetInfo=

It seems like I can wiggle the blade a bit. Should the blade sit tight?
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post #1353 of 2757
2/17/12 at 7:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

FWIW, I have previously used the services of a professional furnituremaker to make rips in my stock material on their super-expensive table saw. All I did was provide a cut list and they ran it through for $30 for about a 1/2 hour of work on their part. Everything was done perfectly and I didn't have to invest in a very expensive saw blade. I know you are trying to do this all yourself, but if you don't foresee using the blade ever again for another project, the total investment becomes pretty steep. Just a thought.

That's a great idea too. With the basement finished and the theater the last "big" project I'll be taking on, I'm not too anxious to buy many new expensive tools with limited use.
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post #1354 of 2757
2/17/12 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Question for the pro's on the cabinet.

As you know, I'm using 1x2's in between the cabinet doors. I've noticed on the first board, there is a slight bend to it to the side. Can I clamp two boards on it before mounting and then screw it in to make sure it's straight? Or will the board return to it's normal bend after removing the clamps?

I'm only leaving 1/8" gap around the cabinets. So it doesn't take much to notice if something is off. I'm wondering if this is what a jointer would fix. It seems like you'd need to start with 1" material though and then you'd end up with a perfectly straight 3/4" piece?

If I understand your design and your question correctly, these 1x2's will be fastened at the top and bottom but will be unsupported along their vertical length. If that's the case, the bend will come back as soon as the clamps are removed.

There are several ways to put a straight, flat face on a bowed board, but you are correct that all of them result in a thinner board. Woodworkers usually buy wood that starts out thicker. 4/4 wood from a specialty wood store is usually around 7/8" thick.

The easiest way to execute your design without worrying about the dividers staying straight, would be to make the entire divider out of plywood or MDF with a 1/8" strip of hardwood glued to the edge facing the room. A lot of euro-style cabinets are made this way.

Quote:


Here's the table saw I borrowed from my brother. It's definitely on the lower end.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_167737-46922...7C1&facetInfo=

I can see why you might have problems with that saw. A sharp blade might help (a 10" Freud Diablo 24-tooth ripping blade is $30 from Amazon). Otherwise, I'm not sure what to suggest. You might need to consider using pine instead of maple for pieces that you're going to need to rip. Or, as TMcG suggested, pay a cabinet shop for a half-hour of time to make your cuts for you.

Oh, before I forget: Before you fasten the dividers in place, think about how you're going to mount the hinges. If you're going to mortise the hinges into the dividers (which is the traditional and preferred method), you might want to cut those mortises before you fasten the dividers in position.
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post #1355 of 2757
2/17/12 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
Thanks dwightp.

That's correct. I plan to screw the 1x2 divider notched section straight into the back of the 1x2 that I added to the front of the cabinets. Am I at risk of straight maple boards warping over time? I thought maple made sense because it was hard and would match the entire face of the front cabinet wall. I like your idea of using MDF but veered away because of it not matching the maple cabinet doors. It sounds like the 1/8" strip glued solves that.

If you guys think the 1x2 will warp over time, I could mount that to another 1x2 essentially making a T. But maybe that just introduces another board that can warp.

I'm using these hinges on the doors:
http://www.knobs4less.com/ame3180tbfb.html

So no mortising. My plan was to start building from the center cabinet out. Build the center cabinet and center. Then I'll attach the dividers with an 1/8" of spacing all around and at the same angle as the cabinet so the hinges are aligned with the door.
Next I plan to mount the hinges to the door, position with the appropriate gap, and attach the hinge to the divider.

Rinse, wash and repeat for the remaing doors. I figure by adding the dividers as I build the doors, I can space them to the door rather than trying to build the door in to the frame.

I'll order one of those better blades to see if that helps.
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post #1356 of 2757
2/17/12 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Am I at risk of straight maple boards warping over time?

The risk is not zero, but if the maple is straight when you install it and it is finished properly, it will very likely stay straight (unless it gets wet, of course). In this context, "finished properly" means applying the same finish in the same way to all surfaces. If you put two coats of paint on one surface, the opposite surface should also get two coats of paint. This ensures that all parts of the board absorb moisture at the same rate, which helps keep the board flat and straight.

Quote:


My plan was to start building from the center cabinet out. Build the center cabinet and center. Then I'll attach the dividers with an 1/8" of spacing all around and at the same angle as the cabinet so the hinges are aligned with the door.
Next I plan to mount the hinges to the door, position with the appropriate gap, and attach the hinge to the divider.

Rinse, wash and repeat for the remaing doors. I figure by adding the dividers as I build the doors, I can space them to the door rather than trying to build the door in to the frame.

This is an interesting idea. You might still need to trim the doors just to get them square -- in my experience, doors rarely go together perfectly square. And I guess you will still have to fit the last two doors on each side to their openings. But yeah, it sounds like this might save you a bunch of time and effort.
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post #1357 of 2757
2/17/12 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Here's the table saw I borrowed from my brother. It's definitely on the lower end.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_167737-46922...7C1&facetInfo=

It seems like I can wiggle the blade a bit. Should the blade sit tight?


Yeah, on a decent table saw (or any type of saw) you really should not have any "wiggle" to the blade, with that saw, it's likely also a unwelcome part of it being a low cost saw. Probably due to the use of bushings somewhere in it's design/construction instead of bearings. And yes, that saw is definitely on the low end, and it's also one that is power challenged.

Harder to cut species of wood could very likely be a issue with that saw. Blade selection and having a sharp thin kerf blade could probably help somewhat, but only to a certain extent.
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post #1358 of 2757
2/17/12 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Yeah, on a decent table saw (or any type of saw) you really should not have any "wiggle" to the blade, with that saw, it's likely also a unwelcome part of it being a low cost saw. Probably due to the use of bushings somewhere in it's design/construction instead of bearings. And yes, that saw is definitely on the low end, and it's also one that is power challenged.

Harder to cut species of wood could very likely be a issue with that saw. Blade selection and having a sharp thin kerf blade could probably help somewhat, but only to a certain extent.

What is a good table saw?

My coworker sent me one that was like $2k and ran off 240v. Just a full head of hair above my budget
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post #1359 of 2757
2/18/12 at 6:37am
Thread Starter 
Last night I started on the front wall cabinets.

I started by mounting the first divider. I used the Kreg drill bit to screw through the notched area. Then screwed and glued it to upper and lower shelves.


Here's a snapshot of the cabinet construction:


I mounted the hinges 2.5" from each edge. The same height as the railes and stiles. Then attached it to the divider. A bit tricky to do while balancing it. But you get a little play with the holes in the hinges as long as you get close.


The door swings all the way open which will be nice when moving the sub into the cabinet.




Here's the moulding I'll be using on the inside frame. Only the 3/4" edge and 1/4" lip of the moulding touches the cabinet. I'm wondering if that's enough surface to attach the moulding or do I need to build something behind as well?






I still need to use the 1/8" round over bit on all the cabinet edges. I guess I'll have to dis-assemble the doors/hinges in order to paint them anyways.
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post #1360 of 2757
2/18/12 at 6:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

What is a good table saw?

My coworker sent me one that was like $2k and ran off 240v. Just a full head of hair above my budget

Hi Larry.

I don't have any experience with track saws. But they look like they might be a good alternative to a table saw. Especially if you need to rip down 4x8 sheets of MDF like I did by myself. I bought a $100 rulered/clamping straight edge anyways. If I was at the beginning of my project, I probably would have sprung for something like this:
http://www.dewalt.com/tools/saws-tra...dws520skh.aspx
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post #1361 of 2757
2/18/12 at 6:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

The risk is not zero, but if the maple is straight when you install it and it is finished properly, it will very likely stay straight (unless it gets wet, of course). In this context, "finished properly" means applying the same finish in the same way to all surfaces. If you put two coats of paint on one surface, the opposite surface should also get two coats of paint. This ensures that all parts of the board absorb moisture at the same rate, which helps keep the board flat and straight.



This is an interesting idea. You might still need to trim the doors just to get them square -- in my experience, doors rarely go together perfectly square. And I guess you will still have to fit the last two doors on each side to their openings. But yeah, it sounds like this might save you a bunch of time and effort.

Right dwightp. I'm learning to make sure all my wood is square before assembly now which helps. But the first door seemed to go together well square with the square edge clamp I bought a while back.

Only having to really worry about the last two doors should save me a ton of time. Although, my marks that I made based on measurements from the computer have been almost spot on anyways. I won't have to flush trim any edges if they are off by a 1/16".

The first door seemed pretty well square with my dividers and top / bottom shelf. I hope the remaining doors are as easy.
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post #1362 of 2757
2/18/12 at 6:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Yeah, on a decent table saw (or any type of saw) you really should not have any "wiggle" to the blade, with that saw, it's likely also a unwelcome part of it being a low cost saw. Probably due to the use of bushings somewhere in it's design/construction instead of bearings. And yes, that saw is definitely on the low end, and it's also one that is power challenged.

Harder to cut species of wood could very likely be a issue with that saw. Blade selection and having a sharp thin kerf blade could probably help somewhat, but only to a certain extent.

There's definitely some give in that saw. I may try tightening it up but I don't foresee that helping. I think it's just the low cost saw. Fortunately I don't think I'll be needing it much more though to finish the project since I went with the stock 2.5" stiles/rails.
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post #1363 of 2757
2/18/12 at 6:55am
Thread Starter 
Anyone know of a source for black magnet catches? The big box stores seem to only carry brown.

Also looking for an inexpensive discrete black finger pull. I'd rather not put knobs on the cabinet doors.
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post #1364 of 2757
2/18/12 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Also looking for an inexpensive discrete black finger pull. I'd rather not put knobs on the cabinet doors.

I was hoping you would route a finger catch of some kind on the side, so there would be no visible hardware at all.

(Sorry I don't have any tips on finding the hardware you need, but Google images and shopping can probably combine to find you almost anything.)
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post #1365 of 2757
2/18/12 at 7:30am
http://www.lovehandles.uk.com/fingertip-design-ftd3015-hidden-finger-pull-handle.html


I've seen these on this side of the ocean. (Home Depot or Lowes?) You could route a slot on top of the door and install. Be pretty discrete under the lip mounted that way. If they're not available in black, they could be sanded and spray painted black.

Richelieu has black magnetic catches. Home Depot Stores in Canada have them.
LL
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post #1366 of 2757
2/18/12 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Anyone know of a source for black magnet catches? The big box stores seem to only carry brown.

Also looking for an inexpensive discrete black finger pull. I'd rather not put knobs on the cabinet doors.

Mario - you don't need a black magnetic catch AND a finger pull. Just use a push-button magnetic latch. If the door is closed all you have to do is push on the door frame, release and the door will pop right open. To close all you have to do is shut it against the latch until it clicks. Simple, elegant, easy and completely hidden.

Before you get too far on the hinges . . . .why not use a European style hidden hinge. They have inexpensive plastic jigs that make precision install easy and you won't even have the 1950s style door hinge exposed. Not only do they swing fully wide open, but also have a quick release where you can completely remove the door front in seconds and reinstall in seconds as fell.

You will just need to buy a forstner bit to install the European hinges.

And here is just one of many, many different examples of push-lock magnetic latches: http://www.sugatsune.com/products/Pr...ODUCTID=PKL-07

and the preferred latch: http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalo...p?p_ref=259857

As an fyi - you mount the magnetic latch to the cabinet and only the metal plate to your door.
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post #1367 of 2757
2/18/12 at 8:31am
A couple more links for you of black magnetic latches:
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CIoBEPMCMAA

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-13615-Ma.../dp/B000FKF1RC

http://woodworkers-hardware.amazonwe...source=froogle

This European hinge allows the door to swing a full 170 degrees: http://www.amazon.com/Blum-Degree-Fa...d_sim_sbs_hi_2

And a standard European hinge. No need to paint because it will be completely hidden: http://www.amazon.com/Laury-Laurey-O.../dp/B0011WEIT0

Here is the cheap drilling jig: http://www.amazon.com/DrillRite-35mm...9582540&sr=1-1

And a more expensive one that will work with your router: http://www.amazon.com/Rockler-Concea...9582540&sr=1-6

And a bit pricier complete kit: http://www.amazon.com/Rockler-Multi-...9582540&sr=1-8

Good luck!
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post #1368 of 2757
2/18/12 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys for all the great links and feedback. Gotta love this forum.

TMcG,

I would have gone with the European hinges, but I didn't want to deal with the mortising. It doesn't look that difficult with the jigs you linked to though.
I already have in hand all the hinges so I think I'm going to just continue rolling down the planned path. That way I don't loose time to either ordering or running around just to find all the items I'll need. I actually don't mind the hinges showing. Given they are pretty low profile and black. They'll pretty much blend in once everything is painted.

I love the push magnet idea to prevent having a finger pull like Tedd posted. Although thanks Tedd. That's what I had in mind. I was going to put them at the top of the cabinet where the shadows will prevent anyone from even knowing they exist.
The only problem with the push magnet catch is I don't have enough space on my 1x2 dividers to mount then. So I'd have to get a bit creative and length the area where it mounts to. I could also just mount it on the top and add a 1.5" board to meet up with the door. So it's doable. Any chance these will rattle though compared to my current method?
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post #1369 of 2757
2/18/12 at 11:13am
All kinds of black latches here:
http://www.usfutaba.com/Product-Rang...c-Push-Latches

Some latches have shallow mounting and extend without support.
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post #1370 of 2757
2/18/12 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Thanks guys for all the great links and feedback. Gotta love this forum.

TMcG,

I would have gone with the European hinges, but I didn't want to deal with the mortising. It doesn't look that difficult with the jigs you linked to though.
I already have in hand all the hinges so I think I'm going to just continue rolling down the planned path. That way I don't loose time to either ordering or running around just to find all the items I'll need. I actually don't mind the hinges showing. Given they are pretty low profile and black. They'll pretty much blend in once everything is painted.

I love the push magnet idea to prevent having a finger pull like Tedd posted. Although thanks Tedd. That's what I had in mind. I was going to put them at the top of the cabinet where the shadows will prevent anyone from even knowing they exist.
The only problem with the push magnet catch is I don't have enough space on my 1x2 dividers to mount then. So I'd have to get a bit creative and length the area where it mounts to. I could also just mount it on the top and add a 1.5" board to meet up with the door. So it's doable. Any chance these will rattle though compared to my current method?

Hey Mario. I have never experienced any rattles with these magnetic latches. I would have two suggestions for you - 1. Go with the double magnetic latch as in Ted's link - this will immediately double your holding power to about 7 pounds - which is quite a bit for rock solid closure. 2. Mount the magnetic latch on the underside of the top and not your thin side stiles. From your photographs it seems fairly easy to pack out the underside of your horizontal top shelf with some simple blocking to give you a hidden and fixed mounting point for the magnetic latch.

Keep up the great work - I always enjoy seeing the fantastic progress and great documentation on your build thread. I'll definitely be hitting YOU up for some tips finish carpentry tips when I get to that stage myself.
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post #1371 of 2757
2/18/12 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

What is a good table saw?

My coworker sent me one that was like $2k and ran off 240v. Just a full head of hair above my budget

How much you looking to spend? $100 is not going to do it, $400-$500 is probably the starting point for something on a decent entry level contractor type table saw, like this Ridgid R4512 from Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardw...&storeId=10051

Move up to $1000, and that should get into the start of some really good affordable saws. There is a lot of brands that make good saws, even some of the imports from places like Grizzly have some decent saws. For example Grizzly has this 110/220v 2hp "Hybrid" with cast iron table & wings for $795 plus $99 for shipping.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-H...Series-/G0715P

These "Hybrid" saws are something that quite a few manufacturers are offering now, they are a cross between a contractor and a cabinet table saw.


Also, consider something like a used Delta saw. And some of the upper end of the Sears Craftsman table saws are pretty good also.


Although these reviews are old, and some of the saws are no longer available. You still may find them helpful.

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/indus...01503&artnum=1

http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/01...s-jet-and-more
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post #1372 of 2757
2/19/12 at 9:37pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys for the links. I'm going to check them out.

I finished constructing all the center cabinet doors today. All my divider marks that I pulled from the 3D model I built before hand was pretty much spot-on.

Here are some pics:






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post #1373 of 2757
2/20/12 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I finished constructing all the center cabinet doors today.

Wow! Just wow... : )
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post #1374 of 2757
2/20/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I finished constructing all the center cabinet doors today. All my divider marks that I pulled from the 3D model I built before hand was pretty much spot-on.

OMG, That is looking so AWESOME!!!!!
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post #1375 of 2757
2/20/12 at 4:35pm
I think Mario is tricking us using his renders again!!!


Nice looking wood work!
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post #1376 of 2757
2/20/12 at 6:06pm
Ordering a Bosch 1617 router tomorrow.

Might as well keep ordering tools while I wait for the town to approve my plans...going on 3 weeks tomorrow
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post #1377 of 2757
2/20/12 at 6:50pm
"The Theater That Kreg Built"

You are making some nice progress and it looks awesome. Are you sure you don't have "woodworker" somewhere on your business card?
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post #1378 of 2757
2/20/12 at 8:55pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys. It turned out much better than I could have ever hoped.
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post #1379 of 2757
2/20/12 at 8:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

I think Mario is tricking us using his renders again!!!


Nice looking wood work!

That would be funny if after all of this I revealed it was all just 3D and Photoshop. But that reminded me to try to blend the worlds together again to see how they looked. Here's another composition at this stage of the game.

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post #1380 of 2757
2/20/12 at 8:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

Ordering a Bosch 1617 router tomorrow.

Might as well keep ordering tools while I wait for the town to approve my plans...going on 3 weeks tomorrow

Larry. You are going to have some nice new toys to play with!
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