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The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

This actually transitions nicely into a sound proofing / decoupling question. When I frame the door it obviously will need to be attached between the double stud walls that I have an inch space in. By doing this I assume I'm coupling the two walls together. Is this just par for the course and I shouldn't worry about it?

There have been some discussions about this. If I recall correctly, you will want to build the door frame in two sections -- so instead of having a single door frame that's (for example) 8" wide, you might have two frames that are each 4" wide. The frame on the theater side is screwed into the theater-side framing, and the frame on the outside is screwed or nailed into the outer framing. Leave a small gap between the frames and fill it with acoustical sealant. Cover the caulk seam with the door stop moulding, which is nailed in place only on the theater-side frame and floats over the outer frame.

Is that understandable? Translating the picture in my head into words is hard.
post #1502 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

That is correct.

I've got a detailed photos and step-by-step instructions of how I did it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21463004

Awesome that helps a ton. So when finished does this just give you a 3/4" lip on the underside? I was hoping to do something similar but have an inch or more gap.
post #1503 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

There have been some discussions about this. If I recall correctly, you will want to build the door frame in two sections...

This precludes a pre-hung door entirely, doesn't it?

And, at least to me, your explanation was good; though I'm not sure where exactly the seam between the halves of the frame will end up.

Fred
post #1504 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

This precludes a pre-hung door entirely, doesn't it?

Pre-hung is still possible, but you have to remove the standard stop moulding and replace it with a piece that is wide enough to cover the seam between the pre-hung frame and the frame trimming out the remainder of the opening.



It might be a bit hard to see in this picture, but this is a standard pre-hung door for a 2x4 wall in an opening that is a 2x6 wall with 2 layers of 1/2" drywall on 1 side. The piece of wood that is the stop moulding in this picture is actually baseboard.
post #1505 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

Awesome that helps a ton. So when finished does this just give you a 3/4" lip on the underside? I was hoping to do something similar but have an inch or more gap.

Here's an illustration to show the dimensions that may prove helpful.
I initially was trying to rip Oak down to 3/4" x 3/4" after routing it with the 1/2" rounder over. But was unsuccessful in getting a straight cut. I'm so glad I went the base shoe route since it saved a ton of time. If you need to and want more height on the front edge, you could attach a small 3/4" stock board first, then attach the 1/2" side to the underside of the step.

post #1506 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp View Post

There have been some discussions about this. If I recall correctly, you will want to build the door frame in two sections -- so instead of having a single door frame that's (for example) 8" wide, you might have two frames that are each 4" wide. The frame on the theater side is screwed into the theater-side framing, and the frame on the outside is screwed or nailed into the outer framing. Leave a small gap between the frames and fill it with acoustical sealant. Cover the caulk seam with the door stop moulding, which is nailed in place only on the theater-side frame and floats over the outer frame.

Is that understandable? Translating the picture in my head into words is hard.

It makes sense, but I would think it would be pretty difficult to get the separate sections to be aligned nicely given they would be attached to different 2x4's. I guess that's where shimming comes in.

In my case, I'm using the Sound Proofing Company door seals. So I'd have to lay this out in 3D to see where the door seam lands and the door seals.

Do any threads or links come to mind where someone has done this? I just don't remember this being done or even talked about.

Hopefully Ted from the Sound Proofing Company can chime in.
post #1507 of 3008
Mario, In a double wall scenario, you'll mount the door jamb to one of the two stud walls, as per normal. The rest of your door jamb is essentially an extension jamb, Which is attached to the second set of studs. As Dwight said, there is a small 1/4" gap between the actual door jamb and the extension jamb. Seal with sealant. This sealant bead can also be covered with a small piece of trim molding attached to either the actual jamb or the extension, but preferably not both

This keeps everything decoupled. Is this what you were looking for?
post #1508 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ted.

Yeah - I just though I'd seen so many theater threads building bigger jambs when really you are just building a second one separate from the door. This actually makes it easier in some respects.
post #1509 of 3008
Mario, if you build what Ted just described, please post lots of pictures, as I am very interested and kinda inept.
post #1510 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Mario, if you build what Ted just described, please post lots of pictures, as I am very interested and kinda inept.

You bet.
post #1511 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Went back and cleaned up my cuts using the Bosch. What a difference!

Thanks for the info on the sanding sealer and process. I'll be giving it a go soon. The edges do look like they will absorb like a sponge.

BigmouthinDC,
Have you tried the thinned drywall compound method? Just curious if one is better/easier than the other. How 'bout you Bryan? Any experience with both methods?

TheaterChad,
Thanks for chiming in. Moral support is always welcome.


Just thought I'd post some plans for the column in case it benefits anyone down the road.

These are the short column dimensions? What about the tall ones?
post #1512 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdika17 View Post

These are the short column dimensions? What about the tall ones?

Here are the dimensions of the taller columns I made.

post #1513 of 3008
Mario, did you say you used a 1/2" roundover bit on the stair step?

And where did you get your bits? I cant see paying $32 for the ones @ Lowes.
post #1514 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

Mario, did you say you used a 1/2" roundover bit on the stair step?

And where did you get your bits? I cant see paying $32 for the ones @ Lowes.

That is correct.

I think I bought a set of 4 round over bits at Menards. Not sure what I paid, but I think it was about $12-15 for the set. It was their Tool Shop brand.
post #1515 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

That is correct.

I think I bought a set of 4 round over bits at Menards. Not sure what I paid, but I think it was about $12-15 for the set. It was their Tool Shop brand.

Any reason it needs to be a 1/2" bit? Would a 1/4" work or would that not be enough "roundover"?
post #1516 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post


Any reason it needs to be a 1/2" bit? Would a 1/4" work or would that not be enough "roundover"?

I think a 1/2" would be better on your feet. Plus it matches the roundover on the factory base shoe.
post #1517 of 3008
I was considering using a 1" x 2" and thought about using the roundover bit on both the top and bottom in place of the base shoe, do you think that would work or no?
post #1518 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

I was considering using a 1" x 2" and thought about using the roundover bit on both the top and bottom in place of the base shoe, do you think that would work or no?

The downside is the you could see the seam on top. It probably wouldn't be as strong as having the solid piece of wood on top since most of the weight is on the very edge as people step. I think I considered that idea too but opted not to.
post #1519 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

Mario, did you say you used a 1/2" roundover bit on the stair step?

And where did you get your bits? I cant see paying $32 for the ones @ Lowes.


I get my router bits from MLCS Woodworking. Good quality and much cheaper than Lowes or Home Depot.
post #1520 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

I get my router bits from MLCS Woodworking. Good quality and much cheaper than Lowes or Home Depot.

I've seen these on Amazon.

They seem to get good reviews
post #1521 of 3008
Thread Starter 
I went on a weekend crown moulding bender. I have about 95% of it done aside from the foyer. I went with miter's in the corners rather than coping given the complexity of the crown. Maybe I just haven't had enough practice, but I couldn't seem to produce a good cope. Although I will have to cope one piece.

I used 18 gauge 1 1/4" brad nails for securing the bottom edge of the crown to the columns and furring strips. Then I used 16 gauge 2 1/2" finish nails to secure the top of the crown to the ceiling. Elmer's Wood Glue Max was used in all the inside and outside corner miters.

I'm hoping the chair rail comes in today.

I started by marking my lines on the ceiling and columns. The 1x2 I mounted to the wall marks the bottom of my crown.










post #1522 of 3008
Thread Starter 
So I'm thinking I may be going with the BM Flat black on everything. There doesn't appear to be much of a difference between the Matte and the Flat.

I was initially worried about burnishing with the Flat black but based on my samples, I don't see any of that happening. In fact, I even took a wet rag and wiped it down without any issues...which completely surprised me.

My theory is that the Zinsser BIN primer may be the magic ingredient here. Or maybe it's just that it's on MDF. In either case, I'm pretty happy.
post #1523 of 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I went on a weekend crown moulding bender. I have about 95% of it done aside from the foyer.

Wow, that looks fantastic and obviously represents a TON of work. I've done my share of crown and it never seems to be easy. I continue to be blown away by the quality of the work you are putting out, Mario...

Bryan
post #1524 of 3008
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Wow, that looks fantastic and obviously represents a TON of work. I've done my share of crown and it never seems to be easy. I continue to be blown away by the quality of the work you are putting out, Mario...

Bryan

Thanks Bryan,

The crown was definitely challenging...especially for my first time doing it. There are so many moving parts and things out of square. You've got to manage fluctuations in the walls, ceiling, angles and the wood. I did get better by the end...but it still felt like I wasn't always sure of myself. I did pick up the CutNCrown system which was a huge help in allowing me to make all my cuts on one side. The diagram they provided with their system was took some of the thought process out of trying to figure out where to position the moulding before cutting.

My columns were pretty much square but may have been a 1/16" one way or another after mounting to the wall. One thing I found worked well was just cutting the outsides as 45's and then using shims underneath the bottom of the crown moulding to accomodate that difference. That made the outside corner joints tight and allowed me to come back at another 45.

I also found some of the moulding that I felt was unusuable and made some templates at various cut angles like: Inside/Outside/Left/Rights in various comabines of 45, 44 1/2, 44, 43 1/2. Then I could take the template and see how played on the wall before actually making my finish cut.

It was a TON of work. I think I was up until 3am last night during my final push. I only had a few sections left...but I knew it was time to quit before I started making expensive fire wood.



Are there any techniques to keeping my joints tight over time? My theory was the Wood Glue would hold over time...but I don't want to find out later that I should've...
I nailed close to the corners when I felt it was where I wanted it. But I didn't brad nail the outside corners to each other.

For the inside corners where I had furring strips, I cut the strips just short of the corner so I could jam the two pieces together as tight as possible. But I'm wondering if having that furring strip behind it, may actually prevent it from from moving back to the wall and separating.
post #1525 of 3008
If you are going to paint the trim I would use paintable caulking. It is your friend!
post #1526 of 3008
The crown molding looks great! That must have been a TON of work over a single weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post


Are there any techniques to keeping my joints tight over time? My theory was the Wood Glue would hold over time...but I don't want to find out later that I should've...
I nailed close to the corners when I felt it was where I wanted it. But I didn't brad nail the outside corners to each other.

For the inside corners where I had furring strips, I cut the strips just short of the corner so I could jam the two pieces together as tight as possible. But I'm wondering if having that furring strip behind it, may actually prevent it from from moving back to the wall and separating.

As I understand it, inside corners tend to open up over time because of wood shrinkage. If you had good wood-to-wood contact on the miters, and you used enough glue, and the joints stayed tight while the glue dried, you ought to be fine.

If you have any more to do, you might think about using PL construction adhesive on the inside miter joints (instead of regular wood glue). The PL can bridge a small gap and still yield a strong joint, which would be very helpful with crown moulding.
post #1527 of 3008
Great job on the crown, like the rest of your theater the craftsmanship is top notch.
post #1528 of 3008
i wouldnt worry about shrinkage if you cut them all long and really jammed/popped them in.....always cut crown and base long by about 1/16th.


coping helps because you can really get those longer pieces jammed in tight and they will NEVER open....sometimes its tough with the inside miters because the piece you are jamming will slide along the other 45 and the joint wont be perfect.

If you cut the lengths exact and didnt have to rely on the nails to bring the crown into the wall, then you may or may not get shrinkage.....if the wood is very dry right now, you are probably ok, if it is not, then it you may see some.

but yeah, caulk with a paintable silicone if you are painting it (Big Stretch is a trade brand sold at real hardware stores that is very good).

if you are staining, then you need to learn coping...to practice, quickly prime white one end of your crown. now cut an inside 45 angle on it (so you see white crown, then the new raw inside 45 cut when looking at the face of the molding)...now just cope away everthing that looks like wood and is not primed....and when you cut it, back cut it at an angle (sometimes you only have a paper thin sliver of face wood at some points depending on the profile). use a metal file to grind down any areas that need it. priming it white helps you see what needs to be cut away (raw wood) for coping....easier to visualize the line. its very easy.
post #1529 of 3008
I'm not very good at coping especially when it is a hardwood like Maple (OMG I wanted to punch myself in the face when I tried)

So instead of using the little saw the entire time I used a dremel with a sanding wheel and it came out perfect.
post #1530 of 3008
Oh yeah Mario

1) I hate your thread
2) MDF moulding is usually a bit cheaper if you plan on painting
3) I'm still framing, almost done with the bathroom...I can't wait till I get to crown
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