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Im about to return my new plasma, somebody please talk me out of it!

post #1 of 27
12/24/09 at 7:39pm
Thread Starter 
Ok everyone here is the story. I bought a samsung PN50b530 50" 1080p plasma from Sears on black friday. it was 899, plus like 10% back from bing with taxes it ended up being about 900.

My problem is not about the price.

My problem is image retention. Yes. I know there are a lot of threads about this, and I think iv practically read all of them. I hope there are more people that have this problem, some knowledgeable insight will be appreciated.

I want this TV as an all purpose TV. Sports, Console games, movies, and some regualr tv. Iv ran the set for about 40 hours and the IR has not gotten any better.

What am I experiencing?

Console Play

IR like a nobodys biz. I played COD MW2 for one round and the little image on the bottom left began ghosting, as well the rest of the HUD. It has not improved over the last 40 hours. The ghosting goes away after about 10 min of regular tv.

Movies

No problem here, except most of the movies I seem to come across have black bars on the top and bottom. I havent sat through a whole movie with it, but doesnt this pose the same problem as the 4:3 aspect ratio bars? After 100 hours of break in, whats going to happen? Like i said I havent really watched it this way so I havent had the opportunity to experience any IR or anything when it comes to this.

TV

This is the worst. I dont get clear image retention but definitely get IR in the form of a blurry blob where the logo was. Tickers easily leave marks. Again, nothing that normal tv watching cant clear up.



I hate the idea that Im not able to watch what I want to watch when I want to watch it. I havent really played COD except to test it and its ghosting characteristics. I havent really watched tv because its leaving ghosting images. All iv done is put on a dvd for 6 hours a day for the days Iv been home, so thats what most of the hrs have come from.

I dont know what answer I am looking for. Maybe somebody pointing out something iv overlooked, but I dont know what to do except just return it for a LCD where I can play without worry. On that note I was looking at a 46" samsung at best buy.

For those of you with many hours on their plasma, what happens with the black bars on top and bottom when uv been watching a movie for 2 or 3 hours? any IR?

Also, my settings have been under 50 for contrast, brightness and cell lite is 5.
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post #2 of 27
12/24/09 at 8:27pm
I have a samsung pn50a510 I bought in february from best buy. It also got horrible image retention at first. I hated it but just stuck it out. Now I play xbox and ps3 on it quite a bit and watch lots of blu ray with black bars. I do get slight image retention after a few hours of any of it but it goes away very quickly now. Like once I switch sources and hit full screen it is basically gone. I think it is more of a residual charge than ir. Now a couple of times in the first couple months I got bad ir that took like a full day to go away. I say just try not to leave anything like black bars on the screen for like the first 250 hours and u should be good
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post #3 of 27
12/24/09 at 9:29pm
I have had a 58A650 and now a 58B860.

I have never had an issue with IR at all on both.

JMTC
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post #4 of 27
12/24/09 at 9:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolanski View Post

I have had a 58A650 and now a 58B860.

I have never had an issue with IR at all on both.

JMTC

thats very strange because I definitely have IR issues. Is it possible that my set is defective? How can I determine this? is IR a symptom of some sort of defect? (I ruled this out because it happened all over the set, not just in one part of the panel)
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post #5 of 27
12/24/09 at 9:52pm
I think IR is fairly normal with plasmas, though it has lessened over the years. I don't even notice it with my Pioneer. As you've seen, it goes away. Burn in was the thing people used to worry about, but extensive tests have been done to show that it is pretty dang hard to get an image burned into the plasma, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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post #6 of 27
12/24/09 at 10:45pm
^^ this is pretty much my view on it as well. I have the Samsung B550 and experience IR (more so at first) but it always goes away. I do find it hard to believe that someone has a plasma (Samsung especially) and has never had IR.
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post #7 of 27
12/24/09 at 11:25pm
Turn down the Contrast. It's at about 90. Turn it down to 60.

Maybe switch on the energy saver settings too. Your TV will not be as bright but you'll get used to it. After you hit 100 hrs slowly turn it back up.
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post #8 of 27
12/25/09 at 2:16am
Thread Starter 
i keep the contrast and brightness below 50. I guess the question is if it is normal that I am experiencing IR like this.

I realize that burn in is nearly impossible with proper care. I dont think its possible to experience burn in as i probably will never watch anything for more than a couple hours.

I have begun using the colored slides to break this tv in. I have about another month before my time is up to return this. I hope this panel becomes much more resilient against IR after about 100 hours.

Any possibility that this set could be defective?
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post #9 of 27
12/25/09 at 3:21am
I had a little IR when I first bought my set, Sammy 58B560. I think it has been around 8 months that it has been in lite usage and there are no issues with IR now. My grandson was down playing with the Nintendo last weekend, and we watched some movies, and there were no problems like when we first got the set. And even then, I figured it was normal to have a bit of IR until the set broke in.

And I wouldn't really call it IR, as the image was more residual, and gone in short order. If it still does it, I don't even notice it, so it is a non issue for us.
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post #10 of 27
12/25/09 at 4:00am
Do you see this image retention on a black screen immediately afterwards or is it present during moving content?

If it's the first, it's normal.
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post #11 of 27
12/25/09 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slv300e View Post

i keep the contrast and brightness below 50. I guess the question is if it is normal that I am experiencing IR like this.

I realize that burn in is nearly impossible with proper care. I dont think its possible to experience burn in as i probably will never watch anything for more than a couple hours.

I have begun using the colored slides to break this tv in. I have about another month before my time is up to return this. I hope this panel becomes much more resilient against IR after about 100 hours.

Any possibility that this set could be defective?

I have an sammy 50A450 the IR was bad under 300 hrs once I got past that point it was much better. I let my son and his friend play Halo on the 360 for 3 hours straight yesterday with the contrast at 75. I was really nervous, but to my surprise the next morning there was very little IR and a hour of normal watching not a sign of anything. From my understanding the more hours it get on the plasma the less you will get IR.
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post #12 of 27
12/25/09 at 5:54am
I wouldnt put up with it. Bad image retention is NOT normal unless the TV has a design flaw or something. Slight IR with constant static images is one thing but if you are seeing this consistently in al situations then it doesnt bode well for the longevity of the TV, IMO.

Do as you see fit, but I wouldnt accept behavior like that. Plasmas have been around for a while now and theres no excuse for bad IR anymore.
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post #13 of 27
12/25/09 at 7:58am
I also have the 50B530, I probably have about 200 hours on it so far. When watching a channel like Fox News with the ticker for a couple hours I get IR which dissapears shortly after moving to another channel with no ticker, 5 minutes of scrolling also gets rid of any images. To me it's more annoying than anything, I had a Panny 50X1 before returning it for the 50B530 and had no IR at all. It's a trade off, the 50B530 gives me better PQ but I have to deal with the IR, hopefully it will settle down after a 100 or so more hours.
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post #14 of 27
12/25/09 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slv300e View Post

Maybe somebody pointing out something iv overlooked, but I dont know what to do except just return it for a LCD where I can play without worry. On that note I was looking at a 46" samsung at best buy.

Don't do that! The first thing to try would be exchanging it for a Panasonic S1; you can get a 50" for less than what it would cost you to get a 46" LCD, and the picture will be far better (especially motion resolution). Panasonics are much less prone to image retention than Samsungs. But you need to get over 100 hours on the set before you have a good idea of how it's going to behave and look the rest of it's life. Run the break-in slides on loop (you can find instructions elsewhere on this forum) while you are asleep and away from home.
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post #15 of 27
12/25/09 at 9:23am
I have a slight IR problem with my 63B590 for the first couple of weeks. I ran the burn in DVD overnight one night and just used the set.

Now, after 500+ hours on the panel there is no IR noticeable at all including items like a static Dish DVR updating screen which produced it earlier. When your cells are brand new they age quickly. That causes some IR. The trick is to get them to age to their normal state.

So if you're getting IR, use the Screen Wash feature of the TV to clear it off, then lower the contrast a little and just watch different items. Be careful not to pause a DVR / Apple TV / etc. too long.

But, I think you'll regret returning it.
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post #16 of 27
12/25/09 at 12:30pm
Panny vs Samsung is a trade-off. The Sammy will have more IR, especially from new, but better color reproduction imho.

I think Sears extended the return period from 30 days to 60 for electronics purchased from about thanksgiving until Dec 16th, when it reverted to 30 days. I'm not sure about the start date for this extension but do know it expired on 12-16. If you can, keep the set as long as possible, use it a lot to break it in, and see if the IR gets better.

I do know of a very few instances where people returned Samsung plasmas after only a week or so for "burn in" that was actually temporary IR.
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post #17 of 27
12/25/09 at 1:08pm
For the first 300 hours, it's a good idea to do your normal viewing with lower contrast. To get the long-term results the quickest, run the break-in dvd during the times you're not using the tv (and do so in a vivid aka high contrast mode) to age the phosphors. I ran a constant 150 hours of break-in with my Pioneer and don't see an ounce of IR at any time, but I've got about 1,700 hours on the panel at this point and has held true since I put about 800 hours on the set. The white wash someone already mentioned is a quick fix, but doesn't serve any benefit outside the few seconds you watch your tv as your walk away after turning it off.

Plasma technology isn't perfect, but being cautious in the beginning will lead to a panel that'll serve you well for years to come, and with a more accurate PQ than lcd's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philtubes View Post

I also have the 50B530, I probably have about 200 hours on it so far. When watching a channel like Fox News with the ticker for a couple hours I get IR which dissapears shortly after moving to another channel with no ticker, 5 minutes of scrolling also gets rid of any images. To me it's more annoying than anything, I had a Panny 50X1 before returning it for the 50B530 and had no IR at all. It's a trade off, the 50B530 gives me better PQ but I have to deal with the IR, hopefully it will settle down after a 100 or so more hours.

This passed weekend I was watching football with some buddies at an acquaintance's house; he had a Samsung plasma (I didn't bother to look at the model number, but it looked like one of last years' models) which clearly gets lots of abuse. The viewing experience was painful since the score and game clock left IR clearly visible on the screen throughout all the commercials and during the game. I wish I could say it went away during halftime at least, but not even that happened.

On the other hand, my parents have a Panasonic 42X1 with roughly 300-400 hours (no break-in procedure used) on the set and regularly watch 4:3 pillar-boxed programs. Never seen IR on their panel.

I wonder if Samsung's panels are just overall more prone to IR than Panasonic. Samsung's have better color accuracy out of the box than Panasonic, but is there a compromise?
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post #18 of 27
12/25/09 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you for everyones replies. Im starting to get the idea that Im just being impatient. Im just going to be running the slides for the next couple days until i get to about 150 hours, and see how it is. Unless my set is defective, I think it should get better.

The IR I get goes away, I know its not burn in, Im just worried that it could be bad for the set. For example I would love to watch the Laker vs Cavs game today, but Im scared that 3 hours of a sports ticker will not be a responsible thing to do at this point.

Iv been using my ps3 to play the looped slides, I think Im going to upgrade my set in the service menu so that I can do it off the memory stick.

I will post back next week when I achieve well over 100 hours of viewing.
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post #19 of 27
12/25/09 at 1:45pm
WOW, the IR issues with a Samsung!!!! I hear it time after time after time. Which is why I didn't buy a Samsung Plasma when I went looking for a new HDTV. Even NOW is seems to be a issue and I just don't get it.

I've had my Panasonic Plasma for a year and a half now and not ONCE have I seen any IR on my screen!!! NONE, so I just don't get this issue. I have a large Movie collection and so top and bottom Black bars all the time and yet ZERO IR. I watch my old Classics with Left and Right Bars, and again, ZERO IR. I game on mine with my Xbox 360 all the time, and NO IR. I've been playing some MW2 on it also and ZERO IR. I've left my DVR, or now currently my Blu-Ray on PAUSE for a few hours, and even after that, NO IR.

So when I hear yet another IR issue, mainly with Samsungs, and it seems to happen so easily, it's just weird to me. I wouldn't put up with it. Samsung make some great LCD displays, but once again their Plasma's seem to have IR problems all the time. My brother has the same Plasma as I do with no IR problems, and my Dad has the Costco version with no IR problems. Having gotten them the same year. I don't even think about or worry about IR. I didn't do the so call Plasma Break in either. I just watched it normally. I switched from my old CRT Rear Projection HDTV to the new Plasma. When it comes to Plasma, PANASONIC these days are #1. Pioneer is GONE. Samsung Plasma's get great reviews, usually higher then Panasonic for picture quality, BUT things like IR aren't rated. Not really used in the Real World where these issues crop up.

One thing for sure. No matter what one you get, it NEEDS to be adjusted, not just taken out of the box and watched. It needs to be adjusted!!!
Myself, I used the Spyder3TV by datacolor. Using the software and the Camera you stick on the screen along with a DVD you run though a bunch of test and then done you set the tv's settings to what it wants. It was about $100. It's a good start. A Professional Calibrator would actually get into the other settings to far better fine tune your HDTV, and it can be worth it, but your looking into $400+ maybe. Plasma or LCD, they need to be adjusted for the best results.
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post #20 of 27
12/25/09 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slv300e View Post

Thank you for everyones replies. Im starting to get the idea that Im just being impatient. Im just going to be running the slides for the next couple days until i get to about 150 hours, and see how it is. Unless my set is defective, I think it should get better.

The IR I get goes away, I know its not burn in, Im just worried that it could be bad for the set. For example I would love to watch the Laker vs Cavs game today, but Im scared that 3 hours of a sports ticker will not be a responsible thing to do at this point.

Iv been using my ps3 to play the looped slides, I think Im going to upgrade my set in the service menu so that I can do it off the memory stick.

I will post back next week when I achieve well over 100 hours of viewing.

It should get better. Despite some of the fanboy rhetoric, based on actual reports here and the manufacturers own warnings, all these plasma sets are as likely to get IR. Sure, LCD is less prone but the PQ in my opinion just isn't as real as plasma.

Enjoy your TV and know like fine wine, the more time it has, the better it gets.
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post #21 of 27
12/25/09 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBDragon View Post

WOW, the IR issues with a Samsung!!!! I hear it time after time after time. Which is why I didn't buy a Samsung Plasma when I went looking for a new HDTV. Even NOW is seems to be a issue and I just don't get it.

I've had my Panasonic Plasma for a year and a half now and not ONCE have I seen any IR on my screen!!! NONE, so I just don't get this issue. I have a large Movie collection and so top and bottom Black bars all the time and yet ZERO IR. I watch my old Classics with Left and Right Bars, and again, ZERO IR. I game on mine with my Xbox 360 all the time, and NO IR. I've been playing some MW2 on it also and ZERO IR. I've left my DVR, or now currently my Blu-Ray on PAUSE for a few hours, and even after that, NO IR.

So when I hear yet another IR issue, mainly with Samsungs, and it seems to happen so easily, it's just weird to me. I wouldn't put up with it. Samsung make some great LCD displays, but once again their Plasma's seem to have IR problems all the time. My brother has the same Plasma as I do with no IR problems, and my Dad has the Costco version with no IR problems. Having gotten them the same year. I don't even think about or worry about IR. I didn't do the so call Plasma Break in either. I just watched it normally. I switched from my old CRT Rear Projection HDTV to the new Plasma. When it comes to Plasma, PANASONIC these days are #1. Pioneer is GONE. Samsung Plasma's get great reviews, usually higher then Panasonic for picture quality, BUT things like IR aren't rated. Not really used in the Real World where these issues crop up.

One thing for sure. No matter what one you get, it NEEDS to be adjusted, not just taken out of the box and watched. It needs to be adjusted!!!
Myself, I used the Spyder3TV by datacolor. Using the software and the Camera you stick on the screen along with a DVD you run though a bunch of test and then done you set the tv's settings to what it wants. It was about $100. It's a good start. A Professional Calibrator would actually get into the other settings to far better fine tune your HDTV, and it can be worth it, but your looking into $400+ maybe. Plasma or LCD, they need to be adjusted for the best results.

Gee I haven't seen any IR on both of my Samsungs....go figure....
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post #22 of 27
12/25/09 at 7:31pm
I experienced the same thing with a Samsung 5054. I returned it and got a Pioneer, and with the 2 different Pioneer models I've owned I've never had any IR at all. The Samsung I had was just like yours, it couldn't be avoided and happened in minutes.
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post #23 of 27
12/25/09 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolanski View Post

Gee I haven't seen any IR on both of my Samsungs....go figure....

Same here. Year old 42a450...never any IR issues. Just got a 50b450 a month ago...no IR issues. I don't game, but both have/are seeing plenty of sports and widescreen (black bars) content.
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post #24 of 27
12/27/09 at 2:50am
Thread Starter 
-a little bit of an update-

So I got my bloody valentine on blu ray tonight. I watched it the whole way through and it completely filled the screen (no bars whatsoever). I watched it in movie mode with a contrast of 75.

With about 15 min left in the film I put the subtitles on. By the time the film was over, i could see what looked like 3 blurry white bars in the middle of the screen where the subtitles would appear. I never paused it or anything. There was no legible text, just some white areas.

This IR was only visible in a dark or black scene. I did not notice it when I began watching normal television. Im VERY dissapointed that this happened. I cant believe there was noticeable IR even when there was moving text!!

I havent checked in the service menu yet but Im probably at about 50 or so hours. At this point, I feel like I want to package this thing up and return it to the store first thing in the morning. If anybody can help me get out of the 15% restocking fee Ill really appreciate it.
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post #25 of 27
12/27/09 at 10:55pm
I just got a 50 in sammy plasma, and have been playing forza for hours on end. Im seeing nothing, but nor am i getting up on top of the tv and searching. I bought this TV to use, if i fall asleep with a video game on i expect not to have burn in.

Im just not going to sweat it, its a mass produced appliance, not a one off prototype. And if i forget to set my sleep timer and it stay on a static image all night so be it.

Your going to keep it, but try real hard to remember what you bought it for, to watch and to keep you company at night.
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post #26 of 27
1/1/10 at 9:22am
I picked up the PN50B530 last week and have it running at fairly high contrast levels (95) and have only run it one night with the Break in slides DVD, I do get image retention from menus on black backgrounds but during movies it is not visible. Widescreen bars are starting to show during movies though so I'm going to run the break in disk for a 100-150 hours in torch settings which I did with my previous Samsung Plasma (PN42B540) to get rid of most IR. That process worked wonders with my 42". Based on my experience with that model I don't believe it is necessary to run at 50% settings with the current gen of Samsungs. Burn it in at max settings and you'll do it in half the time with great results.
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post #27 of 27
1/1/10 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slv300e View Post

-a little bit of an update-

So I got my bloody valentine on blu ray tonight. I watched it the whole way through and it completely filled the screen (no bars whatsoever). I watched it in movie mode with a contrast of 75.

With about 15 min left in the film I put the subtitles on. By the time the film was over, i could see what looked like 3 blurry white bars in the middle of the screen where the subtitles would appear. I never paused it or anything. There was no legible text, just some white areas.

This IR was only visible in a dark or black scene. I did not notice it when I began watching normal television. Im VERY dissapointed that this happened. I cant believe there was noticeable IR even when there was moving text!!

I havent checked in the service menu yet but Im probably at about 50 or so hours. At this point, I feel like I want to package this thing up and return it to the store first thing in the morning. If anybody can help me get out of the 15% restocking fee Ill really appreciate it.

to me that is absolutely absurd. The quiet scenes with no subtitles should have washed away any image retention from the previous subtitles. Although the fact you're getting IR at all from subtitles is absolutely staggering imo.

my new panny g15 takes a long time to get any IR, even from health meters on games and then it washes away in mere seconds when I watch full screen content. I can see the black borders after I watch a non-full screen movie (only on pure black screens though), but again it washes away in seconds on full screen content. I certainly never got any IR from where the subtitles were either.

I wouldn't put up with that tv any longer if I was you, you can't enjoy a tv if you're getting that much visible IR.
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