Radiance & Moome 1080P 72Hz ? - Page 3

I agree on not getting sidetracked here - I will get back to this in another thread.

Just tell him it can be a new feature for his current HDMI cards and Boxes. this way he'll have another upgraded model. I think for him it makes more economic sense for those who want to use the moome card with higher rates than the BD players can put out. and for those who have BD players with only 24p outs it would be perfect.

Athanasios

Could be a solution for me (as a card for the G90 who has currently v1 version of the moome card) as my Radiance XS probably will never support 72Hz.

Lumagen RadianceXE Running 72Hz
Oppo BDP-83 > XE > Moome v2 HDMI > Bone Stock G90

I ran it for about two hours today and had no troubles

craigr

Slow down, this is not a general release. I've only gotten 1080p 72 Hz to work on one unit so far. I will collect more data over the next few weeks and send the info along to Lumagen so they can decide what they want to do with it. Lumagen is not in any way guaranteeing that any of their processors can run digital 1080p 72Hz.

I only posted the photo for you guys to show proof of concept... and I am pretty excited as well. If Lumagen decides that 1080p 72Hz is feasible on existing units, they may even require you to sign something before you are allowed to run a processor at this rate.

In this example, the rig was running 1120x2221 total pixels with a clock of 178922517 Hz. There was some attenuation of high frequencies, but not terrible and real world images look fantastic. I have a very good signal chain in this rig, and most analog systems I have worked on have more attenuation in the signal path compared to what I am seeing at the tubes. To do this right, you will certainly need one of Moome's newest internal IFB's, or at least the newest external.

I'll be back in here as I collect more data. Hopefully none of the XE's will melt down

craigr

Sorry, I missed this post.

There are three Moome products that benefit from the improved filtration; the Sony IFB, the Marquee IFB, and the new v2 External Box. There are subtle differences between the Marquee and Sony filtration, but they are mostly the same.

The filtration was tested by Mike Parker on his 9500 Ultra and by me on my G90. We optimized the filtration for the flagship projectors to be as sharp as possible with almost no attenuation for 1080p 60Hz.

I don't see why the filtration wouldn't be great in lower model projectors too, but the filtration does have to pass more noise in trade for passing more signal. So I suppose on lower projectors one could make the argument that more robust filtration could be better, but that would attenuate the signal more. My belief is that as much of the signal frequency should be maintained on ALL projectors for the best image.

The internal Moome's have outboard triple DAC's and oppamps. The design is very solid and first rate high quality design. The external box is actually the best stand alone transcoder I have seen for 1080p because it has good frequency response and also supports 10-bit color. However, the external box does not use triple DAC's and the response is not as good as the internal boards. Like I said, the external Moome is the best option for an external transcoder, but if you have the option between an internal Moome and the external, take the internal IFB... especially if you think you may try 1080p 72Hz down the road

craigr

Looks good Craig, Congrats ..
You must be in CRT Navana..

Cheers...

Oppo BDP-83 > XS > Moome v1 HDMI > G90

Thanks to the ideas of Craig to cut Vertical unused area, mine is running 817 x 1920 p 72 Hz too :-)

Vtot 860 Vact 817 Htot 2400 Hact 1920 Clock 1484595540

Note: it is an XS and not an XE, and still Moome V1 and not V2. Convergence and Gamut not yet adjusted.

big blue

Did you see an improvement going from 2200 active pixels to 2400?

I guess in the photo you still need to redo geometry

craigr

When are the G90 mods going to be released? Can you give us a general idea as to what the mods entail?

It has been a long a slow process... I recommend starting at the end and going back in time.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8507

The input board is heavily modified and we are still working on the neck cards.

craigr

Just a little update. On my XE test be I was able to run 200 MHz today for thirty minutes with no problems. This is looking good

craigr

Craig your ringing that poor things neck mate (XE I Mean)
Keeper cooking ..

Sorry I could'nt resist..

Cheers mate..

HD versus SD

Fifth Element HD with cropping top & bottom 1929 x 817

Fifth Element SD

Same Picture for DVD 571i to 1080 p

So by the sound of it Craig you are achieving Full Frame 1920x1080 @72Hz (211Mhz) out of your XE which is pretty much the holy Grail...

At least you know 100% that you have an ultra XE ..

Because you normally (at least I think) run 1920x817p for Blu-ray playback
do you think the XE would run this res @72Hz for the length of A feature film without getting to Hot or would you choose to add A little Chipset fan like the VP50pro have?...

Cheers...

Under the guidance of Lumagen, I have gotten to modify several XE's and have been able to make them all run at 180MHz. I spoke to Jim yesterday with my results and he will probably chime back in on this thread.

That being said, it sounded like Jim is going to build the Radiacne XE special addition units. Lumagen might even make an XS special edition. The special addition processors will be guaranteed to support full 1080p 72Hz. Lumagen will likely also offer a special edition upgrade for those of you who want this feature on your existing unit. You will probably have to ship your processor back to Lumagen for the SE upgrade.

None of what I say is official and I do not speak for Lumagen. So all the above is subject to whatever Lumagen actually decides is in their best interest. I think Lumagen is close to making a decision on this soon though.

craigr

I really look forward tho this SE version of the XS.

Hopefully I do not have to ship it back and forth as the import to Switzerland was quite a nightmare with tax declaration and two weeks for shipment. To change a circuit board at my site would not be a problem for me.

We have decided to do a special 1080p72 and 1080p75 version of the RadianceXS and RadianceXE. We are going to charge a $500 US MSRP adder for this. If you have a Radiance already you can send it in for the mod and we will do it for $500 plus shipping. This includes testing your unit at speed and replacing the board if your particular unit is not fast enough for these higher rates.

New units will have our standard 1 year limited warranty. Mods will have a 90 day warranty.

We will handle upgrades in the US and Canada. I am contacting Gordon Fraser in the UK to see if he will handle the mods in Europe.

Please call us if you are interested (503-574-2211)

Jim,

I already asked this over in Curt's forum but I'll ask here for the benefit of everyone - how is this new functionality being implemented? In other words, is it just in firmware, which will result in two sets of firmware differentiating between non-SE and SE units? Or will every single unit require some kind of hardware mod to allow for this feature set? If we're talking about the former, what's to prevent someone from installing the SE firmware on their XE to discover whether or not it's 180Hz/200Hz capable and getting a "free" upgrade?

Nashou

Yes, I understand all that already. My questions are 1) if it's just a crap shoot as to whether the chips on any given XE are 1080p72 capable, and 2) assuming that they are, that only a firmware upgrade is required to enable this functionality...what's to stop the end user from uploading the 72Hz firmware to see if their machine does this or not? Barring the possibility of damage to the unit after trying to run one at 1080p72 when its HDMI chips can't support that framerate, if the firmware for "SE" Radiance units is going to be freely available, what's to stop Joe Schmoe from uploading said firmware to see if his box is capable of supporting this functionality?

I'm not saying that it should work for everyone, only wondering how the difference is going to be handled between units from a firmware accessibility standpoint.

I'm not Jim, but I know the answer.

There is both a hardware and a firmware difference between the SE Radiance processors and the regular XS and XE units. That is why you have to send the processor back to Lumagen for the upgrade.

However, while there is a FW difference between the SE and regular units, the same FW file will be used on a SE as a regular edition XS or XE. The FW will know whether or not your unit is SE and will allow the processor to perform accordingly.

craigr

Jim you got a PM from me

You may want to check with Jim and find out if he would allow you to send just the boards back. That way shipping will be a lot cheaper from Switzerland and customs will probably also be easier.

craigr

You got a PM from me too :-)

I would suggest sending Jim an email through their support page rather than a PM on AVS. I doubt that Jim checks PM's on AVS very often (or ever).

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=support

craigr

thanks craigr, it is done