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PS3 Surround Sound help

post #1 of 27
12/29/09 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 
I'm not like super knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff so sorry if I don't have a lot of information on the setup my dad bought. He has a YAMAHA receiver and I have an optical cable going from my ps3 to the receiver and the hdmi cable from the ps3 to the hdtv.

The problem I'm facing is that I need to turn the volume crazy high when watching movies but I'm just getting louder sound...there are things that I'm not really hearing in the rear speakers that I think should be heard (like a helicopter in the background/offscreen).

I googled this for hours just reading various posts and nothing seemed to help. Most of the time people were talking about LPCM vs Bitstream but the entire topic confused the hell out of me...I went to my PS3 settings and they were defaulted but the topics I read kept saying to change the setting to bitstream for optical cable but it already was set that way...

I don't know what could be said to help me out here..I don't know if it's the subwoofer or if it's the receiver or what...I'm just not really getting a 5.1 surround sound experience...but then the thing is my dad has had this for years so I'm not sure exactly what a true 5.1 surround sound experience is like.
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post #2 of 27
12/29/09 at 9:03pm
Post your question here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=650544
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post #3 of 27
12/29/09 at 9:48pm
Audio setups can be daunting. Did your Dad have a DVD player connected to that receiver before the PS3? How did it sound?
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post #4 of 27
12/30/09 at 12:09pm
Thread Starter 
the link redirects me to a thread...I wish to have my own thread not post in someone's thread

and when he had the DVD player hooked up it was slightly better...like I could feel more of the surround sound but I felt it the best back when he had the VHS player back in the day...but then again I can't remember when exactly he got this receiver.
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post #5 of 27
12/30/09 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenb. View Post

the link redirects me to a thread...I wish to have my own thread not post in someone's thread

and when he had the DVD player hooked up it was slightly better...like I could feel more of the surround sound but I felt it the best back when he had the VHS player back in the day...but then again I can't remember when exactly he got this receiver.

Yes. The link directs you to the Official PS3 thread where the people who own and actually know all about the PS3 and its proper operation post. So, instead of posting where you have the best chance of getting an answer, you want to be special and create your own little thread where most of the people will just be guessing because we don't own PS3s. Well, good luck getting your question answered.
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post #6 of 27
12/30/09 at 3:04pm
I think there are two pieces of equipment involved here. So, what is the model number of the AVR and what audio settings are you using for both the AVR and the PS3? I'm sure we can help you get the PS3 sounding at least as good as a VHS.
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post #7 of 27
12/30/09 at 3:05pm
I had a Yamaha receiver in the past. Don't remember what model, and I also had a good Home Theater setup but when watching movies the surround speakers were not that loud. I played with the settings but they never would get that loud. So I replaced with a Pioneer receiver and what a difference. Finally had surround sound. I concluded the Yamaha receiver was going bad. This might be the case for you also.
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post #8 of 27
12/30/09 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Wow blue you don't need to be an ass. This was my first post/thread and I thought I was posting this in the right section so I wasn't trying to be "special and create [my] own little thread".

As for the model number on the AVR it's RX-V459 and on both the ps3 and the avr it's all default settings. Like on the PS3 I have it set on "optical cable" because that's what I have going from the PS3 to the AVR. I have the optical cable going into the " optical-in" on the AVR. Not sure what else info I could supply you with.
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post #9 of 27
12/30/09 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenb. View Post

As for the model number on the AVR it's RX-V459 and on both the ps3 and the avr it's all default settings. Like on the PS3 I have it set on "optical cable" because that's what I have going from the PS3 to the AVR. I have the optical cable going into the " optical-in" on the AVR. Not sure what else info I could supply you with.

That's an excellent AVR. So, the problem is most likely how you have the player and/or receiver configured.

It's not enough to simply plug in a cable and select the appropriate output on the PS3 and input on the receiver. You need to give some instructions to the player and the AVR. That's what I meant when I asked what settings you are using. The most important setting - is the PS3 set to bitstream or PCM? Bitstream tells the player to output the encoded 5.1 soundtrack. The receiver, when properly configured, will decode the track and send sound to all six speakers. But, if you set the PS3 to PCM, it will decode the track itself and downmix it from six channels to stereo, which won't sound nearly as good.
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post #10 of 27
12/30/09 at 7:01pm
I have had a PS3 for a while now. Not the new slim. Since the older PS3 cannot bitstream the new blu ray lossless codecs. It is very true that it has to decode them into PCM and send that to your receiver. But not just to stereo. I have no problem getting 5.1 and 7.1 PCM sent to my receiver. If he has the new slim he can let his receiver do the decoding if he chooses. I think he needs to carefully check his PS3 settings. Maybe someone else can chime in on him using the optical cable causing issues. I use HDMI from the PS3 to my receiver and a single HDMI to my TV and am able to obtain the results that I posted. I have never had a lack of volume with DVD's or Blu rays. There is a screen that can be pulled up while watching a movie with a volume icon. Click on the icon and a bar graph comes up. Make sure it is in the middle or the neutral position. If it is in the negative side, this could be causing a lack of volume. Just an idea. May not be the problem.
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post #11 of 27
12/30/09 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post

I have had a PS3 for a while now. Not the new slim. Since the older PS3 cannot bitstream the new blu ray lossless codecs. It is very true that it has to decode them into PCM and send that to your receiver. But not just to stereo. I have no problem getting 5.1 and 7.1 PCM sent to my receiver. If he has the new slim he can let his receiver do the decoding if he chooses. I think he needs to carefully check his PS3 settings. Maybe someone else can chime in on him using the optical cable causing issues. I use HDMI from the PS3 to my receiver and a single HDMI to my TV and am able to obtain the results that I posted.

His receiver doesn't have HDMI. He's using optical, which is limited to two channels of PCM. That's why the player downmixes to stereo with an optical output. HDMI is a while different ballgame and nothing in the first half of your post applies to his situation.

Quote:
I have never had a lack of volume with DVD's or Blu rays. There is a screen that can be pulled up while watching a movie with a volume icon. Click on the icon and a bar graph comes up. Make sure it is in the middle or the neutral position. If it is in the negative side, this could be causing a lack of volume. Just an idea. May not be the problem.

With optical, he needs to be set to bitstream. And, when set to bitstream, the player has no effect on volume.
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post #12 of 27
12/30/09 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

His receiver doesn't have HDMI. He's using optical, which is limited to two channels of PCM. That's why the player downmixes to stereo with an optical output. HDMI is a while different ballgame and nothing in the first half of your post applies to his situation.

With optical, he needs to be set to bitstream. And, when set to bitstream, the player has no effect on volume.

Im pretty sure if that volume tab was set low it would effect the total volume no matter what type of connection. It was just a suggestion. Sorry for not realizing his receiver did not have HDMI.
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post #13 of 27
12/30/09 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post

Im pretty sure if that volume tab was set low it would effect the total volume no matter what type of connection.

I'm not sure how that's possible with bitstream. But, I don't own a PS3. You can test that idea easily enough by changing the output of your PS3 to bitstream and then seeing whether PS3 volume adjustments have any effect.
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post #14 of 27
12/30/09 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

I'm not sure how that's possible with bitstream. But, I don't own a PS3. You can test that idea easily enough by changing the output of your PS3 to bitstream and then seeing whether PS3 volume adjustments have any effect.

Yes, I can tell you don't own a PS3. This volume tab is in another menu on the PS3. It is totally separate from the audio settings in the main menu It can usually be opened by the green triangle button while watching a movie. The menu has about 20 other icons in there. Many people with PS3's may not even know about it. I have always left my volume bar in the middle default setting which is zero. They usually come set that way. This has nothing to do with how you are connected or are using bitstream or pcm. I don't think you are understanding what I am talking about. No matter what the volume is on your receiver, you can cut or boost the volume that the PS3 outputs with this tab. If this has accidentally been lowered it could cause a lack of volume going to the receiver. This is not a setting that most people ever have to mess with. This is probably getting off track, but it would not hurt to check.
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post #15 of 27
12/30/09 at 9:05pm
Allow me to ask how any device can control the volume of a bitstream output, which is really just a type of zip file. What does the PS3 do?

While I don't own a PS3, I am familiar with many of its features, including the volume triangle. It is often used to produce louder PCM output. But, that's a whole different animal.

Meanwhile, have you tried the test I suggested on bitstream output?
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post #16 of 27
12/30/09 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Allow me to ask how any device can control the volume of a bitstream output, which is really just a type of zip file. What does the PS3 do?

While I don't own a PS3, I am familiar with many of its features, including the volume triangle. It is often used to produce louder PCM output. But, that's a whole different animal.

Meanwhile, have you tried the test I suggested on bitstream output?

On the PS3 remote the green triangle is labeled as options. On the actual controllers it is not labeled. Just so we are clear. The button has many functions depending if you are gaming or watching a movie. No, I have not done any other tests because I am not the one having the problem and all my gear is shut off for the night. Why are you so fixed on this bitstream thing? This volume is a gain for the entire system. It does not care if you are bitstreaming or not. Its a gain. I don't know how else to explain it to you. I did not even know it existed until I read about it on a blog. It is there.
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post #17 of 27
12/30/09 at 9:41pm
Enough. You don't understand much about audio, it would appear. The OP needs to use bitstream from his PS3 because he has an optical connection. And, to the best of my knowledge, it is not possible to adjust the volume of an encoded audio file until it has been decoded, turning it back into PCM. With bitstream the decoding happens in the receiver, not in the PS3. But, just leave it for now. Give it a try the next time you turn on your system.
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post #18 of 27
12/30/09 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Enough. You don't understand much about audio, it would appear. The OP needs to use bitstream from his PS3 because he has an optical connection. And, to the best of my knowledge, it is not possible to adjust the volume of an encoded audio file until it has been decoded, turning it back into PCM. With bitstream the decoding happens in the receiver, not in the PS3. But, just leave it for now. Give it a try the next time you turn on your system.

Yes, Your are right. Enough. The question really has to do with decoding and bitstreaming. I don't appreciate you telling me how much I don't know about audio. I have been into audio for more than twenty years. I never claimed to know everything. You may have the fix here. Im not 100% sure. I don't know who peed in your coffee this morning, but it wasn't me. You may wan't to look for them and make them aware that they are stupid.
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post #19 of 27
12/30/09 at 10:34pm
Uh, how come nobody has asked whether the OP has calibrated his system properly? Seems like that would be square one, no?

OP: have you set the speaker levels in the receiver properly with an SPL meter?
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post #20 of 27
12/31/09 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenb. View Post

I googled this for hours just reading various posts and nothing seemed to help. Most of the time people were talking about LPCM vs Bitstream but the entire topic confused the hell out of me...I went to my PS3 settings and they were defaulted but the topics I read kept saying to change the setting to bitstream for optical cable but it already was set that way...

So, when you play a disc on your PS3, what does your receiver report about the audio format and the number of channels? If the PS3 is set to bitstream, the DD and DTS lights on the left side of the display should be lit. The PCM light should be off. The channel indicators at the far right of the display should show indicators for all six speaker channels.

The display should also show you what the AVR is doing with the sound. You want to set the digital input you are using to Auto and turn off any surround field modes. You want the receiver to simply decode the DD 5.1 or DTS track and play each channel without alteration.

ChrisWiggles is quite correct about doing a system calibration. While it's best to use an SPL meter, running the speaker set up tones and adjusting each speaker by ear so that they all sound the same should get you in the ballpark. Perhaps some of the speaker channels have been turned down at some point over the years.
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post #21 of 27
1/2/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Uh, how come nobody has asked whether the OP has calibrated his system properly? Seems like that would be square one, no?

OP: have you set the speaker levels in the receiver properly with an SPL meter?

This needed to be said again so it doesn't get lost in all the other fluff. Calibrate the AVR.
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post #22 of 27
1/2/10 at 10:24am
Its been 5 days. I doubt the OP is even listening anymore.
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post #23 of 27
1/9/10 at 8:14pm
Thread Starter 
my bad guys my computer got screwed up somehow when the power went out..it was in repair. I read everything and there's a lot of lingo used I don't understand haha. As for calibrating the AVR how do I do that?

Thanks for the amount of responses given.
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post #24 of 27
1/9/10 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenb. View Post

As for calibrating the AVR how do I do that?

p27 of the manual, Basic Setup. And, p78 Sound Menu.

It's even better if you get an SPL meter and a calibration disc and set the loudness of all channels to the same level. But, doing the basic setup and measuring by ear should get you in the ballpark.

Meanwhile, have you checked your AVR per the suggestions in my previous post?
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post #25 of 27
1/9/10 at 9:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

p27 of the manual, Basic Setup. And, p78 Sound Menu.

It's even better if you get an SPL meter and a calibration disc and set the loudness of all channels to the same level. But, doing the basic setup and measuring by ear should get you in the ballpark.

Meanwhile, have you checked your AVR per the suggestions in my previous post?

K I'll check the manual. I don't know what a SPL meter is or calibration disc. As for this display stuff your looking at lol...I'll see if I can understand. Are you talking about what is shown on the AVR when it's on? It says "Surround Enhanced".
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post #26 of 27
1/9/10 at 9:31pm
SPL = Sound Pressure Level (how loud it is). An SPL meter will let you adjust the loudness of each speaker to the same level at your listening position. Some AVR's also have time delay settings that are used to adjust the distance the speaker is to your seating position.

A calibration disc usually includes test tones for setting the sound and images for setting the picture quality.

If your AVR includes a microphone, and built-in EQ software (ex. Yamaha's YPAO) then you can use it instead. Audio purists will get a disc and SPL meter so they can double check the settings and/or set everything themselves.
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post #27 of 27
1/9/10 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenb. View Post

K I'll check the manual. I don't know what a SPL meter is or calibration disc. As for this display stuff your looking at lol...I'll see if I can understand. Are you talking about what is shown on the AVR when it's on? It says "Surround Enhanced".

Here's what I wrote: "So, when you play a disc on your PS3, what does your receiver report about the audio format and the number of channels? If the PS3 is set to bitstream, the DD and DTS lights on the left side of the display should be lit. The PCM light should be off. The channel indicators at the far right of the display should show indicators for all six speaker channels."

Any of that match up to what your AVR front panel display shows? The front panel is shown on p9 of the manual. I'm talking about the parts of the dsiplay labelled as 1, 13, 23, and 24 in the manual.

http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receive.../RXV459_en.pdf

But, if you are seeing Surround Enhanced in the text area of the display, that almost certainly means the PS3 is sending a stereo signal, not DD 5.1 or DTS. In other words, it looks like the PS3 is not set to bitstream. You'll never get decent sound that way.

A Sound Pressure Level meter measures loudness. You want all speakers set to the same loudness. A calibration disc has test tones that you play when using an SPL meter for measurement. Your receiver also has test tones you can use instead of playing a disc.
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