AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Need help buying a new LCD
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Need help buying a new LCD

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
So I'm looking at these:

Sony KDL40S5100 and V5100
Samsung LN40B530 and 630
LG 37LH30 and 40

What do you guys think? I still can't decide on the 60hz vs 120hz. I saw a display today showing a 60hz LG and a 240hz LG with a slow moving mountain scene, obviously chosen specifically for this purpose, but the 240hz was noticeably smoother. Is this something I would even notice on normal cable TV viewing? If the TV is capable of displaying 1080/24p, is 120hz even necessary?
Also, call me crazy, but I thought the Sony and Samsung had a noticeably sharper picture than the LG, but I can get the LG's a lot cheaper.

I would like to spend $800 or less, but of course the 120hz Sony and Samsung are both a little more than that.
I'm open to other brands too, but I still thought the Sony and Samsung had better pictures than all others.

Any help would be great.
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkohn1 View Post

So I'm looking at these:

Sony KDL40S5100 and V5100
Samsung LN40B530 and 630
LG 37LH30 and 40

What do you guys think? I still can't decide on the 60hz vs 120hz. I saw a display today showing a 60hz LG and a 240hz LG with a slow moving mountain scene, obviously chosen specifically for this purpose, but the 240hz was noticeably smoother. Is this something I would even notice on normal cable TV viewing? If the TV is capable of displaying 1080/24p, is 120hz even necessary?
Also, call me crazy, but I thought the Sony and Samsung had a noticeably sharper picture than the LG, but I can get the LG's a lot cheaper.

I would like to spend $800 or less, but of course the 120hz Sony and Samsung are both a little more than that.
I'm open to other brands too, but I still thought the Sony and Samsung had better pictures than all others.

Any help would be great.

I would recommend the Samsung LN40B630 or the LG 37LH40. Some people have reported a red flashing issue with the two Sony models you have listed, so I'd be a bit leery of buying them. If you get lucky and could get a V5100 without the red flashing, then I'd rank it between the Samsung and the LG.

In any case, all of the 120hz models you have listed would be very fine TVs. Good luck in your decision.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
The red flashing does concern me, but I've also read about some voice to pictue lag on the Samsungs.
Any comments on 60hz vs 120hz? Is it really worth an extra $150 or so for watching mostly cable and some regular DVD's? I can get the LG 120hz for about $700 or the Sony or Samsung 60hz for the same, but I still thought the others had a sharper picture than the LG. I just can't decide.
post #4 of 25
I'd buy the 60hz for normal TV viewing. I'll bet the "comparison" you saw was an internally generated "split screen" on the same TV. This is simply used to sell high end sets.
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

I'd buy the 60hz for normal TV viewing. I'll bet the "comparison" you saw was an internally generated "split screen" on the same TV. This is simply used to sell high end sets.


I don't know if you saw an internally generated "comparison", but there are people who see a difference with higher frame rates. The hierarchy goes like this:

1) True 240 Hz
2) Quasi 240 Hz (120 hz with a scanning back-light)
3) 120 Hz
4) 60 Hz

People who know what to look for can see a difference with sports and action movies.
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm gonna go for the Sony. I will be using the built in speakers and I keep reading that the Samsung speakers are pretty bad. I figure if I get a Sony with any of the problems I'm reading about, maybe I'll exchange it for the Samsung. One more question. The Sony claims a dynamic CR of 30,000:1 and the Samsung claims 60,000:1. I know the dynamic doesn't mean much, but is this something I should consider more?
post #7 of 25
Forget Dynamic contrast ratio, it's meaningless.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

I don't know if you saw an internally generated "comparison", but there are people who see a difference with higher frame rates. The hierarchy goes like this:

1) True 240 Hz
2) Quasi 240 Hz (120 hz with a scanning back-light)
3) 120 Hz
4) 60 Hz

People who know what to look for can see a difference with sports and action movies.

i beg to differ major websites like cnet claim different
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10243372-82.html


1) True 240 Hz
pretty much useless without a test pattern on screen and a lesser 120hz model next to it to really see the diff between the 2

2) Quasi 240 Hz (120 hz with a scanning back-light)

same as above and maybe even harded to see a diff than a 120hz

3) 120 Hz

useful to have if you like to tweak your TV depending on what your watching at a given time but most people will set it one way and leave it

4) 60 Hz

perfectly acceptable to 90% of TV users, you can't miss 120hz if you never had it and/or never knew how to use it correctly


I too have also seen that bogus split screen video shown in stores that servicetech is talking about and its almost as ridiculous as samsung marketing TV's as LED TV's without even mentioning its still an LCD TV and most of the uninformed general public truly think its a TV made up of LED's, i've herd it from many people from co-workers to people in stores
post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
Well, I brought the Sony home about 3 hours ago. So far, it's fantastic. Granted, it's my first HD TV, but still awesome. I am getting some black horizontal lines that come down from the top of the screen a few inches and then immediately go away on some channels. It happens quite a bit on some and not at all on others. Also, have not seen it yet on a DVD. I'm thinking it might be my cable box.
post #10 of 25
Your TV is picking up the vertical blanking pulses on SD stations. You can expand the picture to hide this but will loose resolution on HD channels.
post #11 of 25
I also see it on a some HD broadcasts that are upconverts. On your Sony you'll want to disable full pixel which will get rid of it.
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
I don't know how to tell if the HD broadcasts are upconverts, but I get it some HD channels also. I'll try the full pixel setting. Thanks.
post #13 of 25
It will be under MENU, SETTINGS, SCREEN, DISPLAY AREA.
While only a few upconverts will have the lines, every time I see the lines it's obviously a upconvert. I keep my Sony on full pixel because I don't like overscan and just try and ignore the lines when they show. You won't lose much by disabling full pixel though.
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok, mine is under MENU, SCREEN, WIDE MODE. My options are WIDE ZOOM, NORMAL, FULL, ZOOM AND FULL PIXEL. The default is FULL and it is having this problem on that setting. FULL seems to be the one that gives the correct size, but it's hard to tell. Also, NORMAL is greyed out. Why would that be? I would really like to make this go away, it's pretty annoying. It's happening a lot on some channels. I am getting it on DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, ABC, CBS, Fox, etc. Standard and HD. I hooked the cable from the wall straight into the TV bypassing the cable box and I did not see the problem. Only tried it for about 10 minutes, but some channels it happens every few seconds, so I think that was long enough.
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
So of the options I listed above, the one that is greyed out changes depending on the channel (input signal?) I am on. It also automatically changes which on is selected depending on channel. I am seeing these lines on all of the modes listed. Also, I was flipping back and forth between Discover and DiscoveryHD and I only saw the lines on DiscoveryHD.
Please help, I want this to be fixed. Thanks.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Sorry I keep posting more stuff, but I keep finding new things. I tried another channel that has a standard and an HD version and again it seemed to only happen on the HD channel.
Also, one time so far, I changed channels and got popping and cracking in the audio, then I lost audio and picture completely. I switched channels and everything was fine. I have also had slight, intermittent losses in audio a couple of other times. What the heck is going on?
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkohn1 View Post

Sorry I keep posting more stuff, but I keep finding new things. I tried another channel that has a standard and an HD version and again it seemed to only happen on the HD channel.
Also, one time so far, I changed channels and got popping and cracking in the audio, then I lost audio and picture completely. I switched channels and everything was fine. I have also had slight, intermittent losses in audio a couple of other times. What the heck is going on?

Try connecting the cable directly to the set and doing a channel scan. This will lose all the encrypted HD channels but the local broadcast HD channels should still be there (though not with the same channel numbers as on the box--try the actual broadcast channel number, adding a -1 after the number.

This will allow you to isolate the problem as being in your HD cable box or in your tv. Digital broadcast is still a bit glitchy at times--occasional audio dropouts and pixelization is normal.
post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Steve, I have tried that and I didn't see the problem with that setup, but I will try again for a longer time just to be sure. I seem to be narrowing it down a little more. It seems to be only on HD channels. I even had a show recorded on DVR that was SD and the same show, different episode, recorded on the HD version of the same channel and it still only happened on the HD recording.
So does this mean my cable box is bad or is this a setting in my TV like other people have suggested above?
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok, so I've tried all the different settings on the TV, I tried a different cable box and a different HDMI cable and it's still not fixed. It does seem to do it a little less with the new cable, but nothing makes it go away. It's only on HD channels, but not all of them and plugging the cable straight into the TV, bypassing the cable box fixes it. I've tried all of the HDMI inputs on the TV, still does it. It looks like a bad TV. Maybe a problem when using the HDMI inputs? I'm gonna call Sony one more time, then the TV's is going back.
Any other suggestions?
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkohn1 View Post

Ok, so I've tried all the different settings on the TV, I tried a different cable box and a different HDMI cable and it's still not fixed. It does seem to do it a little less with the new cable, but nothing makes it go away. It's only on HD channels, but not all of them and plugging the cable straight into the TV, bypassing the cable box fixes it. I've tried all of the HDMI inputs on the TV, still does it. It looks like a bad TV. Maybe a problem when using the HDMI inputs? I'm gonna call Sony one more time, then the TV's is going back.
Any other suggestions?

Please excuse me, I'm not trying to insult you, but your logic is all wrong.

If a problem exists using one source device (in this case the cable box), but not the tv's own tuner, then the problem cannot be in the tv itself unless there's something wrong with the tv's hdmi input. If the problem is in the HDMI input it would show up on all HD channels tuned by the cable box. You've stated that it does not occur on all HD channels tuned by the cable box, only some of them, thus eliminating the HDMI connector on the tv as a possible source of the problem.

You've further stated that the problem does not occur when using a DVD player.

So the problem does not occur using the tv's tuner or a dvd player, and only occurs on some but not all channels when using the cable box. Logic would argue that there's no way this problem's source is your tv. If it were the tv, then it would show up when using the tv's tuner and/or also when using a dvd player. Since you've already swapped out cable boxes and HDMI cables the problem is in the cable company's handling of the incoming signal from the station at the head-end, or in how the software used by your companie's cable boxes handles channel changes.

You've stated that the problem is only momentary immediately after changing channels and clears up quickly. It may be caused by the box shifting from one incoming scanrate to another when changing channels. HD channels can be broadcast in either 1080i or 720p and sometimes picture disturbances will occur momentarily when the box has to switch between the two. Some tv tuners, cable boxes, and satellite boxes handle this better than others--many just show a blank screen until the box adapts resulting in slow channel changing, others let some of the wonkiness actually show on the screen momentarily so the prolonged dark screen doesn't scare the customers (lol).
post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 
Don't worry, you're not insulting me. I'm totally confused about this.
First let me clarify. The problem does not only occur after a channel change. If I am on a channel that does it, the problem continues, randomly, all the time. It even happens on the boot screen on the cable box. Also, my DVD player is not using the HDMI input. So the only time this problem happens is when I am using one of the HDMI inputs. The signal from the cable company without the cable box, is fine. So, the only things that make any sense to me are either the HDMI circuitry in the TV is bad/intermittent only when using an HD signal or this TV and 8300HD cable box from Time Warner are just not compatible. Honestly, both of these seem unlikely to me, but everything else has been eliminated. Sony doesn't know and Time Warner doesn't know. Neither of them has ever heard of this problem. Is there any way this could be because of a cheap HDMI cable. I got it from my local Time Warner.
I attached a picture of the problem.
LL
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok, I finally got something figured out. I was trying to figure out why ESPNHD works fine but other HD channels don't and I noticed the resolution indicator on the cable box says 720p on ESPNHD and 1080i on others. The only time I have this problem is when the cable box is outputting 1080i. If I go into the cable box settings and deselect 1080i as an option, and force 720p for all HD channels, everything works fine.
Now, does this mean my TV is bad and has trouble with 1080i signals or do both of the cable boxes I tried just suck.
If I leave it this way for now, and eventually get a blu ray player, I'm concerned that I will have the same problem.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkohn1 View Post

Ok, I finally got something figured out. I was trying to figure out why ESPNHD works fine but other HD channels don't and I noticed the resolution indicator on the cable box says 720p on ESPNHD and 1080i on others. The only time I have this problem is when the cable box is outputting 1080i. If I go into the cable box settings and deselect 1080i as an option, and force 720p for all HD channels, everything works fine.
Now, does this mean my TV is bad and has trouble with 1080i signals or do both of the cable boxes I tried just suck.
If I leave it this way for now, and eventually get a blu ray player, I'm concerned that I will have the same problem.

I gotta be totally honest with you and say that imho this problem is most likely not your tv. Most HDMI problems that are faults in the tv itself involve failure of the HDMI handshake, not problems with accepting different HD scanrates. Some sets won't accept 480i over HDMI but I've never heard of one that has any problem with 1080i vs 720p.

The only way to verify would be to connect a source device other than the cable box that lets you select 720p, 1080i, and 1080p output and experiment.
Blu Ray players do offer this option, maybe it's time to go ahead and get one now--they are the best HD source available now anyway due to much higher bandwidth than broadcast or cable, and prices for decent players have dropped out of the stratosphere. C'mon, ya know you want one! LOL.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
You're right Steve, I do want a Blu Ray player, but then I'm afraid we won't use the projector in the basement for movies anymore since it's only 480.
I have to agree with you, I don't think it's the TV either. I may borrow a Blu Ray player from a friend, just to be sure. I thought maybe the TV was having a problem with an interlaced signal, but it seems to work fine with 480i as well.
Time Warner is coming out Monday to check everything out. They thought it might be weak signal. Don't know if I believe it, since it works straight from the wall, but we'll see. At least I can watch TV without lines now though!
If you want, I'll post what finally fixes it.
Thanks for all the help.
post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 
So the cable guy came today and couldn't find anything wrong. He even tried a third box and a component cable. No luck. So I exchanged the TV, and so far so good. I never would have thought. I owe a guy at work lunch now because of it.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: LCD Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Need help buying a new LCD