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Sweetwood 11.1 Theater destroy and rebuild - Page 2

post #31 of 840
Squeeks are caused by rubbing (nail to wood or wood to wood) and causes the boards to resonate. That's what you hear. Certainly screwing the floorboards from underneath is better, etc, but the application of drywall and damping material to the underside of the subfloor will damp the wood resonance dramatically.

However it's always best to treat the actual problem, rather than the symptom. So I would not omit screwing and shimming.

The decoupling of the drywall from the joists will help with the PJ vibrating with footfall.
post #32 of 840
Thread Starter 
How much will the drywall and gg effect sound transfer. Meaning will this help in reducing the sound leakage to the rest of the house noticeably?

I understand about what you are saying with taking care of the squeks first.. I will plan on going the gg drywall for the time being and if more is needed then I will address it from the topside since I will have it encapsulated from underside. I have these screws that your supposed to be able to screw through carpet and then tighten the subfloor but I am very nervous about messing up the carpet I have as it is very expensive carpet.

Did you have any opinions on the soffit questions?
post #33 of 840
Do you have our articles regarding Soffits and Ventilation? PM me with your email and I'll send them if you don't have already.

Not sure about your question re: GG and drywall. The combo impedes sound waves. Yes. The results will depend on installation accuracy and flanking paths that have not been addressed.
post #34 of 840
Thread Starter 
John actually sent me a copy yesterday. Thank you. I think I am getting close to what I may need. If I was using clips on the ceiling and the dc04 on the side walls would I be able to mount the bottom of the soffit to the wall using the dc04 rather than using more clips on the wall with the same effect?

Also, this may be a simple answer but if I were to make the side wall decoupled using the dc04 clips and you should use a gap 1-2" minimum how do you make a seal behind the drywall. It would seem that sound would go in between that gap along with behind the wall since I am mounting to cement and then up to the rafters. Maybe not. Maybe the drywall is what is doing the work but I am having a hard time envisioning how I would go about sealing the back and top of this "floating" wall.

On another question. If I have a load bearing wall that cannot use the dc04 clips should I use the whisperclips?
post #35 of 840
Thread Starter 
I fogot to mention that I want to fully encase my room before dealing with soffits if at all possible as I want to use them as bass traps and lighting and I dont want to deal with having to seal the lighting also.
post #36 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

If I was using clips on the ceiling and the dc04 on the side walls would I be able to mount the bottom of the soffit to the wall using the dc04 rather than using more clips on the wall with the same effect?

If the wall in question is the inner theater wall (1 of 2 walls to create the double wall system) then that stud wall is decoupled and you can safely attach the bottom of the soffit to wall without clips of any kind.

Also, this may be a simple answer but if I were to make the side wall decoupled using the dc04 clips and you should use a gap 1-2" minimum how do you make a seal behind the drywall. It would seem that sound would go in between that gap along with behind the wall since I am mounting to cement and then up to the rafters. Maybe not. Maybe the drywall is what is doing the work but I am having a hard time envisioning how I would go about sealing the back and top of this "floating" wall.

Are you referring to an inner or outer wall? Generally we're using DC-04 clips on the inner stud wall.

On another question. If I have a load bearing wall that cannot use the dc04 clips should I use the whisperclips?


Gererally you would build an inner wall inside of that load bearing wall. I'm getting the feeling you are not planning to use double walls all around?
post #37 of 840
Thread Starter 
I wasnt planning on doing double wall anywhere. I guess I could leave up the existing wall studs that are there and then build ones in front of it but there are just 1x1. Due to room restrictions and me being able to do 2 rows of seats with a 12' wide screen I need the room as deep as I can get it. The only load bearing wall I have in that room is the rear wall. The others are just for drywall.

My plan was to do clips and rails on the ceiling and then isolated walls on the other 3 sides. If I would understand how to do a double wall I would need to remove the current drywall to eliminate the triple leaf effect but that still leaves the area behind the new wall to go straight up to the floor joists without any barrier. I will try to draw what I am thinking on paper and post it soon.
post #38 of 840
You really need to have 4 decoupled walls and a decoupled ceiling.

You don't put a "lid" on the wall cavity between the double studs.
post #39 of 840
Thread Starter 
I forgot a step in my plan. I plan to do clips and rails on the ceiling and the rear wall that is load bearing and then do the dc04 clips to isolate the remaining 3 walls. Sorry for the confusion.

Do you have plans that show how to cap the ends of the clips and rails when there is a door. i.e. the gap between the drywall and the studs.

I'll post what I am talking about later tonight when I get some more time to do it.

Thanks
post #40 of 840
Time to clarify terms:

When a wall is decoupled, the inner and outer drywall layers do not share a common stud.

When a wall is disconnected, the top plate of the wall is attached to the old joists via a DC-04 clip.

Having a single stud wall attached to the joist via a DC-04 clip does not mean it's decoupled. A single stud wall by definition is not decoupled.
post #41 of 840
Thread Starter 
I got ya. So I guess my plan would be to have 3 disconnected walls and one with clips and rails and the ceiling with clips and rails. Would it be any different if I added another wall in front of the existing walls once I remove the drywall or will it be similar effect if I eliminate the 1x1s and just do the disconnected walls?

If I do a decoupled wall or the clips and rails how do I finish the ends without comprimising what I just did by filling the gap with wood trim? I would think with the doorways I might be able to extent the door frame so the drywall butts up to it and use some sound sealant caulk to join them together but I'm not sure on the decoupled wall ends.
post #42 of 840
Thread Starter 
I'm sorry for so many questions. This is very confusing to determine what is right. By your websites info it is better to have a wall within a wall than a stagger studded wall. Better for a stagger wall than rails and whisperclips and then for a coupled wall at the bottom. This would seem true if you are trying to keep sound from the other side but I have cement from my basement on 3 sides of this room. It would seem that making a wall that mounts with the dc04 clips would reduce the sound transmission up the best where a stagger wall will still be attached to the ceiling and transfer sound up.

Do you have any experience turning a regular wall with 2x4s and adding a stagger stud array to it in between the 2x4s. If it is feasible and according to your website this would be better than to add channels and clips to it.

Below are the pics of what I was thinking originally and my concerns for sound leaking up. The cement walls are not flat and would almost be impossible to seal off the backside to the joists above. I hope I am making sense and these pics help out.



post #43 of 840
Sound doesn't travel that way. It is not leaking up in that manner. This is why we build the walls as I've described.

Article on converting a single stud wall to staggered: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/..._construction/

In front of a foundation wall you come in an inch (per your drawings) and build a single stud frame. Combined with the foundation, this comprises a double wall system. Decoupled. No need to build a staggered frame here.
post #44 of 840
Thread Starter 
"No need to build a staggered frame here."

So as long as those walls are mounted with the DC04 clips that would be my best option and then to convert my load bearing wall into a stagger studded wall and use the rails and whisperclips on the ceiling I will be set. My last concern would be with the load bearing wall. If I made that a stagger wall it would still be attached to the joists above and transfer sound that way. In this case is it better to make a stagger studded wall or use the rails and clips on the back load bearing wall.

Also does it make a difference on the ceiling rails and clips if I mount them with the method in your manual that has them recessed mounted to cross 2x4s to reduce the drop of it. Only 1/2" rather than inch or so regular.

Is the soffit installation correct also?



On the decoupled walls I would make should I do 24oc? I seem to think I read somewhere that 24 is better than 16.
post #45 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

In front of a foundation wall you come in an inch (per your drawings) and build a single stud frame. Combined with the foundation, this comprises a double wall system. Decoupled. No need to build a staggered frame here.

How then do you attach the wall so that it stands on it's own? Using the DC04 clips and joining the top plate with the floor joist?
post #46 of 840
Thread Starter 
That's my assumption from what he has said. What is the best way to then mount the bottom of the wall and should I put something between the framing and the concrete floors?
post #47 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

My last concern would be with the load bearing wall. If I made that a stagger wall it would still be attached to the joists above and transfer sound that way. In this case is it better to make a stagger studded wall or use the rails and clips on the back load bearing wall.

Either is fine. In either case you have a common top and bottom plate.

Also does it make a difference on the ceiling rails and clips if I mount them with the method in your manual that has them recessed mounted to cross 2x4s to reduce the drop of it. Only 1/2" rather than inch or so regular.

There's no performance difference, per say. Technically attaching the clips + channel to the bottom of the joists makes a deeper cavity = better LF isolation. It's just more difficult to do the recessed route.

Is the soffit installation correct also?



On the decoupled walls I would make should I do 24oc? I seem to think I read somewhere that 24 is better than 16.

That soffit installation looks like those in the manual so you're good to go. Spacing of studs in a decoupled assembly does not matter. 12", 16", 24". Pick any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PakZX3 View Post

How then do you attach the wall so that it stands on it's own? Using the DC04 clips and joining the top plate with the floor joist?

Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

That's my assumption from what he has said. What is the best way to then mount the bottom of the wall and should I put something between the framing and the concrete floors?

Nothing between bottom plate and concrete other than sealant. You can attach to slab with Tapcon screws or power-actuated nailers.
post #48 of 840
Thread Starter 
Ted,
Your the man

I'll but away some of the drywall to make sure if there is anything else I need. I also sent an email to John aobut some other pdfs. Some of them look really interesting and I cant wait to read them. Maybe theyll give me some neat ideas.

Thanks,
Adam
post #49 of 840
You ask good questions. Keep 'em comin'
post #50 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

... to be able to listen to it at a higher level without my wife growing horns and verbally abusing me. LOL

Think of it as foreplay
post #51 of 840
Thread Starter 
You ask I deliver. LOL I'm sure I'll have many more for you. I hope these questions help out alot of people as well.

I have one I was thinking of. You sent a link for converting to a stagger wall. Would it be just as effective if the top extension stud did not go all the way to the top of the wall. I have a feeling that the HVAC ducts butt up against the wall and therefore I would not be able to bring it in another 2".
post #52 of 840
Thread Starter 
I was there Ghost. That was definitely not foreplay.
post #53 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

I hope these questions help out alot of people as well.

A few may reply to these threads but hundreds read anonymously.

You sent a link for converting to a stagger wall. Would it be just as effective if the top extension stud did not go all the way to the top of the wall. I have a feeling that the HVAC ducts butt up against the wall and therefore I would not be able to bring it in another 2".

What is a "top extension stud?" Are you meaning the horizontal piece that is the top plate?
post #54 of 840
Thread Starter 
I guess you would call that the top plate. The 2" piece that extends the outer 2x4s into 2x6s for the staggered effect.

Also did you have a view on whether or not there is a noticeable difference between putting the clips and rails on the bottom of the joists or doing the 2x4s to connect them and to raise the clips and rails a bit so there is only 1/2" between the joists and the first layer of drywall?
post #55 of 840
Thread Starter 
After all of this I wish there was more things I could buy from you.
post #56 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

I guess you would call that the top plate. The 2" piece that extends the outer 2x4s into 2x6s for the staggered effect.

Top and bottom plates are horizontal. Other than that there are new vertical studs inserted.

Also did you have a view on whether or not there is a noticeable difference between putting the clips and rails on the bottom of the joists or doing the 2x4s to connect them and to raise the clips and rails a bit so there is only 1/2" between the joists and the first layer of drywall?

See post #47 above
post #57 of 840
Thread Starter 
With the whisper clips and rails about how thick is that? I think I read 7/8 of an inch. Is that correct?

And do you suggest a staggered wall over rails and clips on the rear wall that is load bearing. I ask because it would seem that the staggered wall still is attached directly to the joists above but maybe thats what makes a staggered wall so good.
post #58 of 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

With the whisper clips and rails about how thick is that? I think I read 7/8 of an inch. Is that correct?

Clips+ Drywall Furring Channel is 1 5/8"

And do you suggest a staggered wall over rails and clips on the rear wall that is load bearing. I ask because it would seem that the staggered wall still is attached directly to the joists above but maybe thats what makes a staggered wall so good.

See post #47 above
post #59 of 840
Good luck with your changes.
Your theatre is quite nice as it is.
post #60 of 840
Thread Starter 
Gelinas,

That is what is taking me so long because it does look and perform nice. Unfortunately I didnt do my research beforehand about sound isolation. I hope I'm doing the right thing.
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