3d ready dlp projector?

I think you will see a LOT of 3D new products and information introduced at this month's (starts tomorrow) Consumer Electronic Show.

I've read a lot about the wireless shutter glasses but I find it hard to believe that the winning standard will require this extra layer of complication and expense.

The Good News is that the unwashed masses are beginning to clamor for multi-dimensional visual entertainment and that demand will swell with more movies like Avatar 3D so and again I think a lot of questions will be answered at the CES - as least I hope so cause we don't plan to upgrade until and unless the upgrade includes 3D.

Actually there are a quite a few 3D ready projectors out in the market at the moment. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple of BenQ projectors, but they are more focused for Educational/Business, so it depends if that's what you're after or not.

The BenQ MP626 is one of the lower end, reasonable lumen (2,700) and contrast ratio (3,000:1) it also comes prepared with USB port. This is a great performing projector and very reasonable priced projector. Do look into it at projector central for more details

http://www.projectorcentral.com/BenQ-MP626.htm

Well like I said, I wasn't sure your purpose, but if it's for HT 3D purposes, the BenQ might just not be what you're looking for. Instead you may be right about the HD66.

Here's the specs on the HD66:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-HD66.htm

I'm pretty sure the new HD66 incoporates the HDMI 1.4 ver.

3D home cinema is *most likely* to use LCD shutter glasses, which are controlled by signals from your Blu-Ray player using an IR blaster of some sort (this is used today), or possibly bluetooth, regular RF, or Wi-Fi.

XPand already sells optically (infra-red) controlled LCD shutter glasses, and I say these will be the most likely standard for the following reasons:

1. You won't need a silver screen
2. Your project or TV will only need to do 120hz, rather than project polarized images (expensive electromechanical hardware is needed to do this in the projector)
3. The LCD shutter glasses have reached a level of sophistication and shutter speed that there is no longer noticeable flicker

For example, with nothing more than a Sony PS3 with an IR blaster connected to it and a 120hz LCD TV, Plasma, or projector (LCD or DLP), you will be able to do 3D at home that looks exactly the same as what you have probably recently witnessed when watching Avatar at the cinemas.

I, for one, cannot wait. Avatar has to be my favorite movie of all time now, and while I've seen it 4 times at the cinemas the experience is greatly diminished by my fellow movie patrons munching their popcorn.

The HD66 is not compatible with Nvidia's 3D Vision which most of us use to watch 3D content. The problem is that Nvidia has not updated its 3D Vision driver to include the HD66. This will most likely change in the next 6 months but for now the HD66 is an orphan. I returned mine to Amazon for this reason. My suggestion is to wait. I use a Viewsonic PJD6211 projector which works very well with 3D Vision but it is really a business class projector and as such it is really not suitable for home theater. It is fine for games where contrast and smoothness is not much of an issue.

More 3D ready DLP projectors from Optoma for gamers:

GT360 SVGA (800 x 600) - $499
GT720 WXGA (1280 x 800) - $699

Both employ a short-throw lens to create large images in smaller rooms and 2500 lumens to deliver a 3000:1 contrast ratio for startlingly crisp, larger-than-life images. Each projector utilizes a powerful 10-Watt stereo speaker system to deliver in-the-action sound without external speakers.
Both are scheduled for availability in March 2010.

Already on the market:

HD66 it features a 1280×800 WXGA HD resolution, 4000:1 contrast ratio, a 2500 ANSI lumens brightness and the ability to display images from 23-inch to 300-inch diagonal. It comes with built-in 2W speaker and bundled with a AC Power Cord, Composite Cable, Remote Control, Batteries for Remote and Lens Cap for $699.

PRO350W it features a 1280×800 WXGA HD resolution, 3000:1 contrast ratio and a 2800 ANSI Lumens Brightness - -$749

Acer H5360 have no problem with nvidia driver.

Anyone tried the pro350w yet? I've got a pair of ew1610 projectors with filters functioning in 3d right now, and I'm pretty sure I could sell the pair for less than the cost of a pro350w (700-ish). The specs look very close between them (same lens specs, similar looking case, etc), so I'm guessing I wouldn't even have to adjust my screen/mount locations much. My current setup works great right now, but it's not hdmi 1.4, so its about to lose a lot of compatibility...

What worries me, though, is that I can't find any details that seem to come from the manufacturer. No owners manual, nothing on the web site - only mention of specs comes from one of the places I found selling it. Plus, does anyone know what kind of connector is needed for the sync signal?

Found this-
http://marketing.optomausa.com/PDFs/...W_Brochure.pdf
So at least the specs are pretty much confirmed. No indication how the sync signal is sent to shutter glasses; looks like either the rs232 port would double as sync out, OR they rely on whatever generates the source to generate the sync signal. Hopefully the former; if a user has multiple 3d sources, (ie, pc, ps3, x360) arranging them to switch signals to the emitter would be a pain. In any case I suppose it would be possible to use the DLP-sync'd glasses, but those are a lot more expensive...
Oh well, any of the above works, so I'm going to go ahead and order one Wish me luck!

Good luck!!!! Hope you enjoy it

A bit of a warning, I've already started a thread on this, but the latest information about Sony and Playstation 3, is that it's going to "REQUIRE" a 3D display with a HDMI 1.4 input. If you're buying a 3D projector, make sure that it has hdmi 1.4 compliance. Neil Schneider, of mtbs3d.com interviewed Don Mesa, Senior Product Marketing Manager for SCEA about their S3D plans for the Playstation 3, and at the very end of the interview Don Mesa dropped a bombshell on the entire 3D community. He basically says that Sony's 3D solution is going to require a display with hdmi 1.4.

No hdmi 1.4, and you aren't going to benefit from what Sony has up their sleeves in regards to both games and Blu Ray movies via the PS3. Very sobering news, and it has to be pretty horrible news for anybody that has spent any $$$ recently buying a 3D ready display that doesn't have hdmi 1.4 support. There is talk that some manufacturers of 3D ready displays will offer some type of converter box, that will allow 3D ready displays with hdmi 1.3 to work with devices like the PS3 that will require 1.4. I think Mitsubishi has actually gone on record about such a device. I have no idea how much one of these converter boxes will cost, and how effective they will actually be.

Here is some more info about Mitsubishi's device:

http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...apter_for_tvs/

But, PS3 is HDMI 1.3, it does not make too much sense.

From what I can tell, it's about the extra flags in the protocol in 1.4 which tells the device about the 1080p 3d frame information. Now can you use 1.3 but with some sort of protocol that would do the same thing? I don't know...but it would seem like it can be done. Also, bandwidth doesn't seem to be the problem in 1.3 so maybe as long as the display "understands" that the info is 3d then I think it's still possible with 1.3.

Anyway that's why probably should spend too much money on 3d till all these are answered.

Yeah, PS3 is 1.3, but their firmware update this Summer, for the whole 3D thing, is going to update their HDMI port to near 1.4 levels. Now, what does that exactly mean? Well, basically, short of physically altering the HDMI port on the PS3, they are going to update it as much as possible via software. The PS3's HDMI port won't magically turn into a hdmi 1.4 port, but will have increased functionality that will let it communicate with the hdmi 1.4 ports on the back of the new 3D Bravias that are expected this Summer. Obviously, it should also work on any other display that has hdmi 1.4.

Here is a video that breaks down how this will work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLeOx...layer_embedded


The big downside with this whole thing is that Sony doesn't really gain anything by allowing their PS3 to work with older 3D Ready TV's with hdmi 1.3 . They gain alot by requiring it to work with hdmi 1.4, because they are hoping that people will end up choosing one of their 3D enabled Bravias. To say that this news is dissapointing, is an understatement. I just bought a 3D ready display not too long ago, and now it's already obsolete as far as the PS3 is concerned. Some people might say, "Well screw Sony then, why use anything they make in regards to this" The problem with that, is that Sony is very gung-ho on the whole 3D bandwagon. They have WAY more ambitious plans for the future of 3D than just about any other major electronics company. They are going to have a large number of PS3 games work in 3D, as well as another firmware update that will make the PS3 compatible with 3D Blu Ray movies. I would love it if I could say the hell with Sony and just use the Xbox to supply me with everything but Microsoft isn't that interested in the whole 3D thing. Aaron Greenberg went on record at the recent CES explaining that he doesn't think Xbox gamers really care all that much about 3D, and that they don't have any major plans for 3D. He did say that if his customers start clamoring for 3D, then they will provide it, but that at this time they don't really have anything in the works.

First results from the PRO350W! Came in today, I installed it over lunch (bracket already in place, proper screen distance & orientation already done, so it was basically plug & play).

In 2d, it looks great - I expected a similar picture to one of the 1610s, and it was a little better. On the 1610s I had to tone down the white to get a good balance with other colors, but this one doesn't seem to have the same problem. The default color configurations are all "warm", so I had to change that, but no biggie. I only had about 15 minutes to play with it, but some things I noticed---

There is no din3 connector. So, there are two options for sync: Use DLP Link (which it does support), or your source must output a sync signal. Obviously 3d sources right now are in short supply, so we'll see how that works out. DLP Link is interesting, though - The bad news right now is that I'm only aware of two shutter glasses manufacturers making DLP link glasses, and the cheapest (xpand 102) are $150. It'll be great not to have external hardware like an IR emitter, but not THAT great .
Anyway, I played around with the dlp link settings, and basically it just has on/off and an invert setting (so it's not a problem if your signal has eyes reversed). When the dlp link is turned on, the screen looks noticeably 'washed out' if you're just watching it with no glasses. I believe this is because the nature of the dlp link is a white flash between frames. I'm guessing, but it makes sense that this would have the same effect as shining a light on your screen... However, My bet would be that the DLP link glasses will 'filter out' the white flash, so it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to try it out soon, I'm just not looking forward to dropping $150 on a pair of glasses!
Obviously nothing is stopping anyone from connecting a sync signal to their source device. I've got an ATI video card, so no nvidia 3d option for me, but I'm looking forward to seeing bit cauldron's recently announced USB device. The issue with that, however, is that if you've got multiple sources you have to come up with a way to switch them around.

Finally, one last note - I wanted to try to put the projector in 120hz mode, but Windows 7 didn't recognize it (or at least, it recognized it as a generic display device), and doesn't list 120hz as an option (max is 85hz). Hopefully that's just a driver issue related to it being such a new display, but I'll look into it more when I get home.



So in summary, I still feel good about it, since I sold the old setup for more than the new, but they *****REALLY***** could have simplified things a billion times over if they'd just included a din3 port. and I worry about windows setup now, but again I haven't had enough time to even try to fix that, so we'll see.



Oh, as a note, I'm a hobby embedded designer, so I'm thinking it might actually be easy to make a tiny device that sits above the TV and interprets the DLP link signal and emits a standard infared LED signal (or has a din3 connector). I know the standard infared signal is just a square wave, so that would be easy, but does anyone know if the detailed specifications of the DLP Link protocal are listed anywhere? I googled for a while and couldn't find details...

Second note, just read the note above about hdmi 1.4. I can't find anywhere whether this one lists the port as 1.3 or 1.4 - which I would guess might mean it's 1.3. Will try to find out for certain. Meanwhile, I would expect (but not count on) a firmware update to support 1.4 - the difference is mainly in acceptance of different protocols, so it should be possible. And there's always the converter discussed above, though I worry about how that plays into the hdmi standard....

(UPDATE) - 3d is NOT available at any resolution above 1280x720. So that's why I wasn't seeing the 120hz option, it doesn't work at 1280x800.

Everything I've read from Sony previously has indicated they'll make all efforts to support existing 3d-ready sets, and expect wide compatibility. The link you quoted was not from sony, but from the hdmi standards body, and really doesn't support your assertion that the ps3 will have compatibility problems at all. Sony's claim of wide compatibility, however, is supported by the fact that there are already games on ps3 working perfectly with existing 3d-ready equipment. Obviously we won't know until the PS3 firmware update is released, but after watching your link, reading reports directly from sony, and reading reports of avatar and invincible tiger, I can't say I'm at all concerned yet.

That link above, is only from the HDMI guy talking about how Sony will basically try to update the hdmi port in the PS3 to "near" hdmi 1.4 levels. Obviously, it's impossible for them to truly make it 100 percent compliant with 1.4, but they can get close enough for the 3D thing to work, and everybody doesn't have to throw their PS3's away and buy a special new version.

Now, as for the display not needing 1.4, well there is a different video that breaks that down. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xumhT...layer_embedded


Neil Schneider of MTBS3D.com interviews Don Mesa, Senior Product Marketing Manager for Sony Computer Entertainment America, and at the very end of the video he drops the bombshell that they are "starting with HDMI 1.4". Basically, the gist of it, is that Sony is going to require a 1.4 display. You can use a regular PS3 (which is actually 1.3), but the display needs to be 1.4 . This doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world, because Mitsubishi is making a device called the 3DC-1000 that will allow the people that bought older 3D Ready displays from Mits, to use them with upcoming 3D Blu Ray players. It's unknown if this 3DC-1000 will help anybody else out, and if it will work with the PS3 or any other device to help out people that have 3D Ready displays, but are stuck with hdmi 1.3 .

Someone could confirm me if xpand x102 glasses are compatible with Acer H5360 projector? (just now they are out of stock and I'm thinking about purchasing this projector, but I would like to assure this compatibility).

Thank you in advance

TI claims that "all" 3d ready dlp projectors support dlp link, but I haven't looked at an h5360 myself.

Meanwhile, more bad news on the DLP Link front.

TI is 'declining' to publish the specifications of the protocol. They won't give out any details other than "it uses pulses of light" without their approval and a signed non-disclosure agreement. Further, as far as I can tell they seem to be working to preserve the market advantage of the few manufacturers of dlp link glasses by restricting who gets access to that information (and thereby has the ability to enter the market). A closed standard is bad enough, but being stingy about who gets to know about it almost ensures that competition won't thrive and prices will stay high.

Pretty stupid move IMO, when 3d is just starting to get a foothold, to then shoot that foot.

Will the PS3 update support older non-HDMI 1.4 3-D ready displays?


Sony employees have stated that the PS3 3-D update requires HDMI 1.4 support. What level of 1.4? Listed in the specs for HDMI 1.4 are many of the current 3-D ready schemes and assigned to those schemes are unique 8 bit binary numbers to be used in the handshaking between sink (display) and source (PS3) for them to automatically set the output to match the display.



I'll take my Samsung DLP 3-D ready as an example for the issues:



HDMI 1.4 Quincunix (alternating pixel- right left eye image) is supported and is the method used by my Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP TVs. But it is not REQUIRED by HDMI 1.4 that the source support this format. Mitsubishi has stated; "Some blu-ray players may natively support DLP checkerboard (one of the quincuix modes) and will allow 3-D blu-ray to play using a Mitsubishi DLP 3-D ready TV but for those that do not we will be offering a conversion box to support the REQUIRED by HDMI 1.4 3-D modes."



A recently released picture of the PS3 3-D settings option has "Automatic" as the setting. This implies a manual option only needed to support older 3-D ready TVs that do not handshake to automatically determine if the method used by the source is supported by the display.


My guess is that SONY will support older 3-D ready displays. Game developers will want as many users as possible to buy their 3-D games. There are currently in excess of 2 million 3-D ready DLP TVs on the market. While many have a PS3 for use as a blue ray player and only play an occasional game, the release of casual games might cause them to purchase PS3 games and the added incentive in 3-D will be a factor.



Mitsubishi is currently the leader in inexpensive 3-D DLP displays with I believe bottom end 60 inch displays selling for under $1000. (compare to Samsung LCD 3-D at $3,400 for 55 inch 1080P 3-D)



The current 3-D ready scheme being used by Mitsubishi will not display 1080P HD 3-D; it results in something close to 1/2 1080P or near 720P resolution. I.E. instead of the 720P 1280X720 you get 960X540. Due to the video processing in a DLP TV the actual display looks better than the specs. This video processing is also why a 1080P DLP TV generally has a picture that is better than almost all other display technologies. TI includes smooth motion video processing and anti-judder support in all 1080P chipsets supplied to Samsung and Mitsubishi. Low RES pictures and games look much better on a 1080P DLP TV. DLP is currently the BEST display for games as it's latency is 10 times better than either LCD or Plasma.



Samsung stopped it's DLP line because consumers preferred the thin LCD over the 12-14 inch deep DLP. One of the last models had built in support brackets to allow wall mounting for the 12 inch deep DLP, ugh.



DLP has an easier way of increasing pixel count to support the new HDMI 1.4 4kX2K resolution and I expect MGA to soon produce a top end DLP TV supporting this new resolution. I expect DLP will cost 1/10th as much as a LCD or Plasma to have the higher pixel count. I expect the cost to be 1/4 of a 4KX2K LCD display. Ti already has commercial DLP 4KX2K for theatres.



Another point: The PS3 with it's HDMI 1.3 port and the easily configurable video buffer memory can support more resolutions and 3-D modes than the Xbox. This is another feature that can be used in advertising the PS3 and the SONY line. "The PS3 not only does everything; it is powerful enough to, and is UNIQUE in that it supports more or ALL 3-D displays.



I can't think of any reason for SONY to not provide support for as many 3-D displays as possible. It requires NO hardware change, just man-hours to write the software. In a cost-benefit analysis it's a no-brainer. I believe the delay in releasing the 3-D update is due to the HDMI 1.4a addendum that was just released.