or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › My first TC SOUNDS DIY sub! ***LOTS OF PICTURES***
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

My first TC SOUNDS DIY sub! ***LOTS OF PICTURES*** - Page 2

post #31 of 83
So how did you go about tuning the PR's since they're different?
post #32 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

So how did you go about tuning the PR's since they're different?

I wish I could tell you that I was able to model it but the truth is by trial and error. Kyle suggested I start at 1500 grams so that's what I did. I added about 100 grams more to the 18" passive. Kept adding mass until they all were giving the same excursion at the given frequency.
post #33 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

So how did you go about tuning the PR's since they're different?

each pr, when loaded into the box, regardless of diameter, has a resonate frequency. could be as low 5Hz or maybe as high as 20Hz. As long as they are the same, it should work just fine. This is analogous to using two different port diameters. Or better yet. Take a given slot port, and add a separator (like a vertical wall) You have not changed the tuning or displacement at all, you just mathematically divided up the port which will then sum again.. nothing has changed.
post #34 of 83
The TC VMP's are difficult to model since there variable and TC didn't really put out any TSP's you could follow. The Exodus and AE PR's have all the required info so modeling in WinISD is a snap.

I already modeled my TC3K with a pair of AE 18" 2100 gram PR's but when I got the VMP's I figured they would come out close. The VMP's start of with about 500 grams as the mms so adding another 1600 grams would make it about the same as the AE - the size difference.

I guess as long as it sounds REALLY GOOD when you get it home that is the only thing that matters. Just make sure you set the HPF carefully since you don't want that nasty dent on the TC3K's cone if it slams all the way back to the VC or worse. I am not sure if the TC3K would get loose quicker with the added PR so you may want to check with Kyle on were you should set the HPF at using the full output of your EP2500.

I did dent one of my TC3K's cone so I just want to put the warning out there, it definitely makes a scary noise.
post #35 of 83
nice work maintrain!
post #36 of 83
it will be interesting to see how much the granite dampens the vibrations. such mass should increase inertia quite a bit and reduce vibrations significantly.

typically mass loaded pr's are mounted dual-opposed in order to negate vibrations.

the front-rear vibrations in this design seem potentially problematic, given that you are using a heavy driver and a heavy pr that will not be vibrating similarly. however, this is theory at the edge. practical results may be quite good. looking forward to your impressions.
post #37 of 83
btw, i added your build to the master index. :-)
post #38 of 83
Thread Starter 
Got the granite on today. I'm taking it home this weekend!






Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

btw, i added your build to the master index. :-)



Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

it will be interesting to see how much the granite dampens the vibrations. such mass should increase inertia quite a bit and reduce vibrations significantly.

typically mass loaded pr's are mounted dual-opposed in order to negate vibrations.

the front-rear vibrations in this design seem potentially problematic, given that you are using a heavy driver and a heavy pr that will not be vibrating similarly. however, this is theory at the edge. practical results may be quite good. looking forward to your impressions.

It does help a bit. I've been able to push it a little harder here at work and it's not moving as much as before. I'll do another video and let you know how it performs at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

nice work maintrain!

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

The TC VMP's are difficult to model since there variable and TC didn't really put out any TSP's you could follow. The Exodus and AE PR's have all the required info so modeling in WinISD is a snap.

I already modeled my TC3K with a pair of AE 18" 2100 gram PR's but when I got the VMP's I figured they would come out close. The VMP's start of with about 500 grams as the mms so adding another 1600 grams would make it about the same as the AE - the size difference.

I guess as long as it sounds REALLY GOOD when you get it home that is the only thing that matters. Just make sure you set the HPF carefully since you don't want that nasty dent on the TC3K's cone if it slams all the way back to the VC or worse. I am not sure if the TC3K would get loose quicker with the added PR so you may want to check with Kyle on were you should set the HPF at using the full output of your EP2500.

I did dent one of my TC3K's cone so I just want to put the warning out there, it definitely makes a scary noise.

Kyle has given me good advice on tuning these things. I'm about 98% satisfied with tuning at this point. Just want to get it home and enjoy it on a good movie.
post #39 of 83
Very nice! I love the granite color.
post #40 of 83
Wow!

That is one sweet looking sub!

I am almost as excited as you are to find out how it performs in your home.

Excellent work.
post #41 of 83
i have a tc-3000 15 that needs a new box but i cant find any 18" vmp passives to purchase. Maybe when tc sounds gets up and going again i can get some and build a new box. For now i will use my current enclosure.

By the way nice job.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by oachalon View Post

i have a tc-3000 15 that needs a new box but i cant find any 18" vmp passives to purchase. Maybe when tc sounds gets up and going again i can get some and build a new box. For now i will use my current enclosure.

By the way nice job.

You could always use the PR's from AE or Exodus, they just won't have the same look.

The TC3K models great with a pair of the PR18-2100 from AE in about a 6 cf cabinet. It would probably model out the same with the Exodus PR's too if enough weight is added on.

Spanish tried his TC3K with the 18" AE PR's and got great results.
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

You could always use the PR's from AE or Exodus, they just won't have the same look.

The TC3K models great with a pair of the PR18-2100 from AE in about a 6 cf cabinet. It would probably model out the same with the Exodus PR's too if enough weight is added on.

Spanish tried his TC3K with the 18" AE PR's and got great results.

Exactly.

There are other PRs out there. They might have the looks of the VMPs but they are not nearly as costly either.
post #44 of 83
maintrain, I like that finish, unique and different. Yes, at AE, you can get the two 18" PR-2100 for under $250. I can say that from running the TC 3K sub sealed and then in the 8cf PR box tuned to 15.5hz in the same location, it does quite a bit better in the PR box. Besides the extra SPL down low, it has a flatter frequency response. In the sealed box, it had a big rolloff after about 60hz. I realize that this is a high inductance driver, but why the dip in the sealed box and not in the PR box? Also, I know this driver takes well over 2,000 watts sealed to drive it close to its xmax but a PR box being more efficient, I wonder how much power it will take, 1,500 watts?
post #45 of 83
It will take 1900 watts in a 6 cf enclosure with a 17hz HPF. That is the max since any more and the driver will exceed x-max at about 13hz. You don't loose very much spl down low by feeding it 1500 watts, it is only down 1db.

I don't think you are experiencing a roll off at 60hz with the TC3K in a sealed box, I think it is just the big peak in the 50hz range coming back to normal. As you know the TC3K is a better low end driver were your AE is a better mid-bass driver, you usually sacrifice 1 to gain the other.

You might be better off with the Exodus 18" PR's right now, they are on sale!
post #46 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

You might be better off with the Exodus 18" PR's right now, they are on sale!

I just checked these out $65 is a crazy cheap price compared to what TC passives cost. (not knocking my purchase though )
post #47 of 83
fyi, use Amaral on the surround with a softrag to polish it up nice (its ok to get it on the cone too)
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by maintrain View Post

I just checked these out $65 is a crazy cheap price compared to what TC passives cost. (not knocking my purchase though )

I traded my AE PR's when the opportunity to pick up some matching VMP's came around. Sure they might wind up doing the same job but you have to look at them too
post #49 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

fyi, use Amaral on the surround with a softrag to polish it up nice (its ok to get it on the cone too)

Got it. Just found a bottle here stashed away and will apply asap!
post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

fyi, use Amaral on the surround with a softrag to polish it up nice (its ok to get it on the cone too)

Hey Kyle,

Did you mean Armor All? or is there something else out there?
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by maintrain View Post

Got it. Just found a bottle here stashed away and will apply asap!

Take more pics after you apply it!
post #52 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I traded my AE PR's when the opportunity to pick up some matching VMP's came around. Sure they might wind up doing the same job but you have to look at them too

I'm with you on this. The tall surround and titanium cone just look bada$$ to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Take more pics after you apply it!

You know I will! I'm looking for any reason to get close to this thing at the moment!
post #53 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Hey Kyle,

Did you mean Armor All? or is there something else out there?

Well I hope so because that's what I'll be using.
post #54 of 83
mjaudio, yes, the TC 3K sub has a big peak at 50hz which I cut off some 6db's with the EQ to make the system flatter in the sealed box. But even then, I was down more than 10db's by 80hz, believe me, the roll off is there. I read the forums here and Home Theater Shack for almost two years and came across a couple of guys using the same sub and having the same issues like I did. On the other hand, the TC 3K in my 8cf PR box does not require any EQ (no cutting any peaks like the sealed box), same location. I believe that maybe the driver's high inductance is an issue in small sealed boxes but in the bigger PR boxes, the high inductance of this sub is minimized so it becomes almost a non issue.
post #55 of 83
Thread Starter 
@spanish

I was planning on crossing @ 50hz seeing that I have decent fronts. Would you recommend crossing higher or would it purely be an issue of preference?
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Hey Kyle,

Did you mean Armor All? or is there something else out there?

rofl, what did i type!
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

rofl, what did i type!

you typed Amaral so I of course did a google search as I thought it was this new wonder lotion to clean up my cones. I would have ordered a couple of bottles if there was something by that name

I think your way too influential in my buying habit's Kyle
post #58 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

you typed Amaral so I of course did a google search as I thought it was this new wonder lotion to clean up my cones. I would have ordered a couple of bottles if there was something by that name

I think your way too influential in my buying habit's Kyle

I have to admit I google search Amaral as well! lol
post #59 of 83
does anybody have a passive radiator calculator online, im too lazy to calculate by hand right now. All the links i found were dead. AE speakers used to have one but it looks like the link is dead as well.
post #60 of 83
Man exodus wants big bucks for shipping. $37 for 2 passive radiators.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › My first TC SOUNDS DIY sub! ***LOTS OF PICTURES***