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Samsung 2010 plasma models - Page 4

post #91 of 964
1/14/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

Otherwise all you are proving is that one set simply allows you to blow out the picture to a ridiculous level and the other decided not to do that.

Regardless of calibration, if Panasonic allows you to blow the picture out to a ridiculous level, would that not make it the panel capable of being brighter? runner66 was suggesting that Samsung panels are brighter than Panasonics. That is not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

You also have previously posted about the 1080 lines of motion resolution as if the Samsung doesn't have it even though on this point it has been proven that it does. The shadow detail point is arguable too, and certainly not a "fact." Some reviews and calibration reports have favored the Panasonic on this point and others the Samsungs. It is commonly stated in this forum as if it is a given, but don't mistake that as a fact.

CNET's review (and presumably others who tested motion resolution) says that the '09 Samsung's "only" achieve 800-900 lines of motion resolution, while '09 Panasonic's achieve the full 1080 lines. Is that not proof enough? It's also widely accepted that Panasonic's have better shadow detail than even the Kuros. I don't know about that, but I have personally witnessed better shadow detail on Panasonic plasmas than my own Samsung plasma.
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post #92 of 964
1/14/10 at 1:10pm
I really don't buy that 1080 motion resolution BS. According to that test, not even the Pioneers have 1080 motion resolution. Yet, look at all these plasmas side by side and you will see the Pioneers have the smoothest motion out of all of them. It's really obvious.
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post #93 of 964
1/15/10 at 5:28am
thread cleanup: deleted posts bashing other members

Please limit your posts to technical issues
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post #94 of 964
1/16/10 at 1:03pm
am i correct in assuming that only the 8000 series plasma will have cinema smooth? If so, thats a big mistake on samsung's part.
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post #95 of 964
1/16/10 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by typerforrob View Post

am i correct in assuming that only the 8000 series plasma will have cinema smooth? If so, thats a big mistake on samsung's part.

I don't know if this is the case or not. But if it is like the 2009 models it is an academic point since anyone can turn this feature on from the service menu even in models that were sold supposedly without the feature.

The bigger question is will they have fixed it since the bugs in the feature make it pretty useless this year.
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post #96 of 964
1/17/10 at 1:04am
Panasonic is big in the USA not so in Europe and as much in Asia.Also 1-1.2 inches depth on a 63" inch TV with 3000000 million plus contrast is as good as they get and i am tired of these Pioneer guys still bragging about 2 year old models that burn 400watts and are thick as a brick .Pioneer Plasmas are now officially obsolete ok and the black levels now have nothing on 2010 model plasmas especially with 5000000 contrast ratios from Panasonic.
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post #97 of 964
1/17/10 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyman View Post

Panasonic is big in the USA not so in Europe and as much in Asia.Also 1-1.2 inches depth on a 63" inch TV with 3000000 million plus contrast is as good as they get and i am tired of these Pioneer guys still bragging about 2 year old models that burn 400watts and are thick as a brick .Pioneer Plasmas are now officially obsolete ok and the black levels now have nothing on 2010 model plasmas especially with 5000000 contrast ratios from Panasonic.

While you might be a little wrong I do, however, agree with the fact that people talk about Pioneer way too much. It's fine to talk about it a little since it is a reference for quality, but people going on and on about them is a little weird and unusual. It kind of freaks me out a little bit, lol.
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post #98 of 964
1/17/10 at 10:48am
I wonder what Samsung black levels will be this year. From all the the reports on Panasonic they seem to be nearing Kuro levels, while we have heard nothing on the new Samsungs.
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post #99 of 964
1/17/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I wonder what Samsung black levels will be this year. From all the the reports on Panasonic they seem to be nearing Kuro levels, while we have heard nothing on the new Samsungs.

They didn't say anything last year either, but we know they made big improvements in that area. But I still think Panasonic will be the black level champ this year.
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post #100 of 964
1/17/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyman View Post

Panasonic is big in the USA not so in Europe and as much in Asia.Also 1-1.2 inches depth on a 63" inch TV with 3000000 million plus contrast is as good as they get and i am tired of these Pioneer guys still bragging about 2 year old models that burn 400watts and are thick as a brick .Pioneer Plasmas are now officially obsolete ok and the black levels now have nothing on 2010 model plasmas especially with 5000000 contrast ratios from Panasonic.

Not discountinuing your point, but I wouldn't place too much stock in the quoted contrast levels of the new sets (from any brand) one way or another. These figures always turn out to be meaningless when the sets really show up and are tested. In fact, I am willing to guarnatee they won't be as good as that in actual contrast, and the manufacturers will have some caveat on why that is. If you want to bet me on it, feel free to PM.
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post #101 of 964
1/17/10 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I wonder what Samsung black levels will be this year. From all the the reports on Panasonic they seem to be nearing Kuro levels, while we have heard nothing on the new Samsungs.

Can you link to those reports about Panasonic? I haven't seen them yet. By that I mean people who have actually tested it saying they are approaching Kuro level, as opposed to people speculating. I am not saying otherwise, I would just like to see the actual evidence first.
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post #102 of 964
1/17/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

They didn't say anything last year either, but we know they made big improvements in that area. But I still think Panasonic will be the black level champ this year.

We'll see. I'm hoping to get to calibrate both brands this year. I did a couple years ago and the black levels were on par with each other. One thing, though, if you look at some of the other threads is that the G series has an issue with the blacks getting worse as the set ages. This is huge if they don't fix it. Hopefully they did. Samsung has it's issues too (buzzing), but IMHO a full CMS is a pretty huge thing and as little of a difference in black levels there probably will be, I would opt for Sammy myself. Let's hope the ISFccc mode in the new V series has full CMS and not just gray scale controls like '09 models.

I would personally like to see Panny put full CMS into their sets like Sammy does. Why not do that panny?

I'm excited either way that both companies are still pushing what is still the best overall picture quality display format.
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post #103 of 964
1/17/10 at 2:25pm
well hopefully they are a bigger improvement, because Samsungs 09' plasma's were a dissapointment concerning black levels and personally they're not good enough for me to enjoy....especially if you're used to owning a high end CRT like I am. Hell my CRT isnt even perfect regarding blacks, but it's close and definitly better than samsungs 09' plasmas...COLOR and MOTION on the other hand on my CRT are perfection.

As for samsungs PNB550 - 850, they are fantastic when it comes to color.
But hopefully this year they impress with blacks. I want my blacks to be as black as the bezel or close. Panasonic will probably nail this 'this' year but i'm worried about their innacurate color and dim THX mode...
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post #104 of 964
1/17/10 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

well hopefully they are a bigger improvement, because Samsungs 09' plasma's were a dissapointment concerning black levels and personally they're not good enough for me to enjoy....especially if you're used to owning a high end CRT like I am. Hell my CRT isnt even perfect regarding blacks, but it's close and definitly better than samsungs 09' plasmas...COLOR and MOTION on the other hand on my CRT are perfection.

As for samsungs PNB550 - 850, they are fantastic when it comes to color.
But hopefully this year they impress with blacks. I want my blacks to be as black as the bezel or close. Panasonic will probably nail this 'this' year but i'm worried about their innacurate color and dim THX mode...

After the THX patch, is there anything wrong with Panasonic's color?

At any rate, THX color accuracy is supposed to be improved this year, as well as gamma.
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post #105 of 964
1/17/10 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

Can you link to those reports about Panasonic? I haven't seen them yet. By that I mean people who have actually tested it saying they are approaching Kuro level, as opposed to people speculating. I am not saying otherwise, I would just like to see the actual evidence first.

It was based on 1st-hand reports and Panasonic interviews out of CES (no actual testing was done).
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post #106 of 964
1/17/10 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

After the THX patch, is there anything wrong with Panasonic's color?

At any rate, THX color accuracy is supposed to be improved this year, as well as gamma.

According to Chad, one of the professional calibrators here on the forum, color accuracy is excellent post-THX upgrade (see link).

http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm
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post #107 of 964
1/17/10 at 2:48pm
Quote from CNET on the 2010 Samsung flagship model PNC8000. The Real Black Filter feature sounds pretty good to me.

Quote:


We don't expect the PNC8000 to rival the vaunted Kuro for black level bragging rights, but given Samsung's improvement in that area over the last couple of years, it may come close.

Hauntingly similar to the TruBlack filter advertised on LG's PK750 and PK950 models, the Real Black filter on the Samsung 8000 is said to "reduce the onscreen glare caused by ambient light, so blacks and shadow details are as crisp and defined as possible." We're looking forward to comparing this set to the LG, as well as to Panasonic's 2010 models.
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post #108 of 964
1/17/10 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSony View Post

Quote from CNET on the 2010 Samsung flagship model PNC8000. The Real Black Filter feature sounds pretty good to me.

It's just a filter to keep contrast and black levels deep in the presence of ambient light. It has nothing to do with actual black level or idle luminance.

Panasonic is also using a very good AR filter on the V and G this year, so Samsung shouldn't have much of an advantage here.
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post #109 of 964
1/17/10 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

According to Chad, one of the professional calibrators here on the forum, color accuracy is excellent post-THX upgrade (see link).

http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm

Nice! According to the V10 calibration report, the upgraded THX color accuracy is pretty much perfect.

Quote:


Can you link to those reports about Panasonic? I haven't seen them yet. By that I mean people who have actually tested it saying they are approaching Kuro level, as opposed to people speculating. I am not saying otherwise, I would just like to see the actual evidence first.

We have many first hand observations at CES indicating that the black levels and overall PQ this year are indeed very close to or comparable to the 9G KURO.

D-Nice says they haven't reached 9G black level, but his earlier hint (over 50% reduction in black level compared to last year) suggests a black level that is better than the 8G KURO.
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post #110 of 964
1/17/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

It was based on 1st-hand reports and Panasonic interviews out of CES (no actual testing was done).

I wouldn't put much stock in it then. We hear similar things every year. The conditions at CES are so controlled that it would be hard to judge just based on visual reviews.

To be clear, I have every reason to believe they have improved black level and general each brand has every year recently so it follows. I'm just saying there is no substantiated evidence of this yet so its early to start stating it as if it is verified fact.
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post #111 of 964
1/17/10 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

COLOR and MOTION on the other hand on my CRT are perfection.

Really? You have the calibration report to back this up? I've yet to see any CRT with perfect color.

As far as black levels, we'll have to see what they're really like once calibrators and reviewers have had a chance to see them in the wild. I know with the '08 models, I did both the 50A550 and 50PZ800U and their black levels were on par with each other. Nobody should speculate about the '10 Sammys until we see them. I know I'm excited to get my hands on both.
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post #112 of 964
1/19/10 at 8:19am
Thread Starter 
I created this thread so people who are interested in the Samsung 2010 Plasma lineup, could stay on top of the latest information about those particular products.

Please take your arguments about CRT and other brands elsewhere. Thanks.
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post #113 of 964
1/19/10 at 10:10am
Those blacks in the video looked far darker than the Panasonic's in other videos from AVforums, very nice to see their AR filter works that well. (it sucks on my 54V10) Samsung keeps improving and they definitely hold several advantages over Panasonic. Now there are still a few questions needing answered before I consider one, which I know most won't be answered for months. (if my V10's black levels rise like my two previous 54G10 units did, then Sammy is back in the running)

1. Do these units still buzz like the 2009 models (had a Kuro buzzer and it isn't fun)

2. How are the blacks in a darkened room?

3. How much has their IR lessened vs previous models? (IR can spoil deep blacks, and Sammy has a reputation for higher IR levels)

4. Do their black levels rise over time? (a valid question considering it has been reported on a 09 model)

5. How much heat do they give off? (Had a 2007 Sammy and it was a space heater)

6. Is their ABL very aggressive? (these meet energy star 4.0, so something is happening)

7. How is their Dither this year, they changed and improved it in the 09 models, but I never got a good look at it, is it any different this year from last?

8. Will the lesser models be gimped PQ wise to make us buy the higher models? (Samsung does this on the LCD side all the time)
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post #114 of 964
1/19/10 at 2:34pm
i think the 6500 series may be a great bang for the buck.
and it is nice to have a 50" Plasma that will weigh less than 60 pounds.

I believe the 6500, 7500 and 8500 will all use the same panel but with a better filter on the 8500?
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post #115 of 964
1/19/10 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Those blacks in the video looked far darker than the Panasonic's in other videos from AVforums, very nice to see their AR filter works that well. (it sucks on my 54V10) Samsung keeps improving and they definitely hold several advantages over Panasonic. Now there are still a few questions needing answered before I consider one, which I know most won't be answered for months. (if my V10's black levels rise like my two previous 54G10 units did, then Sammy is back in the running)

1. Do these units still buzz like the 2009 models (had a Kuro buzzer and it isn't fun)

2. How are the blacks in a darkened room?

3. How much has their IR lessened vs previous models? (IR can spoil deep blacks, and Sammy has a reputation for higher IR levels)

4. Do their black levels rise over time? (a valid question considering it has been reported on a 09 model)

5. How much heat do they give off? (Had a 2007 Sammy and it was a space heater)

6. Is their ABL very aggressive? (these meet energy star 4.0, so something is happening)

7. How is their Dither this year, they changed and improved it in the 09 models, but I never got a good look at it, is it any different this year from last?

8. Will the lesser models be gimped PQ wise to make us buy the higher models? (Samsung does this on the LCD side all the time)

1. To be fair, not ALL '09 models buzzed, but hopefully it's a non-issue for the 2010 models.

4. I'm the one that reported elevated black levels, and I'm happy to report after 4 days they're darker than ever. I think it was just a temporary stage in the panels first couple-hundred hours.

5. In my experience the '09 models give off very little heat, or at least my 50" does.

7. Dithering is very good in the '09 models, hopefully this remains to be the case for Samsungs.
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post #116 of 964
1/20/10 at 5:44am
More CES news on the Plasma.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BHns1WW43w
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post #117 of 964
1/20/10 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanbauer View Post

1. To be fair, not ALL '09 models buzzed, but hopefully it's a non-issue for the 2010 models.

Which models didn't have the potential for the problem buzz? I don't think he was saying every set had buzz problems, just every model in the line was capable of the problem.
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post #118 of 964
1/20/10 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by citivas View Post

which models didn't have the potential for the problem buzz? I don't think he was saying every set had buzz problems, just every model in the line was capable of the problem.

b450
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post #119 of 964
1/20/10 at 7:52am
All plasmas have the potential for buzz. Even the Panny forums have folks complaining about that. It's not just Samsung.
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post #120 of 964
1/20/10 at 8:05am
6500 is gonna be the one i have my eye on, or the 7000 if the price isn't too much. Just wish they'd make a size in between 50 and 58"

Either that or a Panny G2 54"
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