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Panasonic 2010 Plasma Models - Page 9

post #241 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leetthal View Post

Yeah wondering the same. Why the S listed at a lower contrast. Also will only the V25 have this "better black filter"?

Just as an aside. I noticed the tech spec pages of panasonic's 2009 NeoPDP models list contrast ratio as "Dynamic: Infinite Black/Over 2,000,000:1 - Native: 40,000:1". I don't recall them listing a "Dynamic: Infinite Black/Over" spec previous to CES, although I may be wrong...

Also, all 2009 models below the S aren't listed as using NeoPDP displays. Could 2010 S models and lower just be using a tweaked 2009 NeoPDP panel?
post #242 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Pioneer's exit had nothing to do with the Kuro tech. Their demise was years in the making and could have been avoided better management pre Kuro.

I don't have any inside information about Pioneer's business model, but prior to their announcement that they were leaving the plasma business, public data showed their market share in the plasma business was tiny (less than 5%) compared to Panasonic, Samsung, and LG who collectively dominated with over 90% of sales. This was despite the fact that both trade and mainstream publications (Consumer Reports, e.g.) routinely touted the superiority the Pioneer plasmas and they were sold through mainstream outlets, such as Best Buy. I mean, it is not as though the word that Pioneer made a great product was not widely known, nor were they difficult to find, audition, and purchase if you were interested. People just didn't buy--at least not in sufficient numbers.

I don't know how to interpret this other than by observing that Pioneer's strategy of selling very high quality plasma displays at a somewhat higher price was unsuccessful, and catastrophically so. Quality just doesn't always sell. I wish that it were otherwise.
post #243 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I don't know how to interpret this other than by observing that Pioneer's strategy of selling very high quality plasma displays at a somewhat higher price was unsuccessful, and catastrophically so. Quality just doesn't always sell. I wish that it were otherwise.

You have the wrong interpretation because you are not thoroughly reviewing what happened to Pioneer. Pioneer's demise began with the purchase of the NEC PDP facility per their bone headed management. It was originally suppose to increase their dated PDP production capabilities, but ended up being their version of the movie "Money Pit".

Simply put, Kuro technology had nothing to do with Pioneer's exit. Back on topic
post #244 of 5848
Here's some pictures and a super creepy video of the new Panasonics. I'd recommend turning the sound off when watching the video. But if you look at one of the gallery shots, the blacks do look rather good.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/p...-at-ces-video/
post #245 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikasauce View Post

Not only did Panasonic keep the 24fps playback exclusive to the V series but it's also the only top-tier series to have a 65" set. I was hoping they would announce a model that had all the new features sans 3-D (which I don't really care about).

You're talking as if S3d somehow affected 2d quality. 2d will look like the same flat image you love, all you have to do to avoid 3d, is not use it.
post #246 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Pioneer's demise began with the purchase of the NEC PDP facility per their bone headed management.

Further on this:
How Lousy Japanese Management Killed Pioneer Plasma


...karl
post #247 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kram2583 View Post

Here's some pictures and a super creepy video of the new Panasonics. I'd recommend turning the sound off when watching the video. But if you look at one of the gallery shots, the blacks do look rather good.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/p...-at-ces-video/

Attempting to judge PQ per an internet video aside, that video shows off the performance of the new filter (the Z1 looks just like that video in the same lighting conditions). You judge black levels in a dark room
post #248 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Not necessarily. It could only have grayscale and gamma controls like the VX100 series.

I've already put in a request for more info on the new feature.

D- Nice, Any and all information that you can gather on Panasonics CMS would be greatly appreciated. Panasonic makes very good televisions but until their CMS is improved, I think I'll hold off on any purchase. Thank you for all your help. -Bill
post #249 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Attempting to judge PQ per an internet video aside, that video shows off the performance of the new filter (the Z1 looks just like that video in the same lighting conditions). You judge black levels in a dark room

D-Nice, I'm a bit confused with this filter stuff. You said most 2010 models would have the Z1 AR filter, but Panny's info leads me to believe that there are three different filters on the 2010 models: infinite black pro, infinite black, and AR filter. Which one of these is the Z1 filter?

And which models have the dynamic black layer?

Thanks for all your help.
post #250 of 5848
So true...D-Nice has such a way of answering questions that it is comical at times(in a good way). He likes to leave you guessing.
post #251 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Attempting to judge PQ per an internet video aside, that video shows off the performance of the new filter (the Z1 looks just like that video in the same lighting conditions). You judge black levels in a dark room

Just trying to add some new information to the conversation.
post #252 of 5848
Hopefully Chris from Cleveland Plasma will arrive soon to give us a hands-on report. Looking forward to that!
post #253 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kram2583 View Post

Here's some pictures and a super creepy video of the new Panasonics. I'd recommend turning the sound off when watching the video. But if you look at one of the gallery shots, the blacks do look rather good.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/07/p...-at-ces-video/

For me, this (skype-tv) looks like a killer app. My wife and I live a long way from our family and our parents cannot use a computer due to sight issues.

I passed up on a 9th generation Kuro because of the promise of more connectivity this year. (I have an 8th gen Kuro and a fp). I was hoping that I would not regret this decision but the 65 in V25 looks like it will be what we were looking for.
post #254 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kram2583 View Post

Just trying to add some new information to the conversation.

Yeah, any info is good info.

Regardless if someone wants to nitpick at them.
post #255 of 5848
I'll enjoy my 9G a while longer, then

Thanks for the concise answer.
post #256 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

D-Nice, I'm a bit confused with this filter stuff. You said most 2010 models would have the Z1 AR filter, but Panny's info leads me to believe that there are three different filters on the 2010 models: infinite black pro, infinite black, and AR filter. Which one of these is the Z1 filter?

And which models have the dynamic black layer?

Thanks for all your help.

I agree. I don't know why he won't just come out and answer the questions instead of talking around it. I mean he can't still be under NDA now that the product has been introduced as is on display as we are speaking?

Frankly, I'd rather have no answer than an answer that just keeps you guessing.
post #257 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFreek View Post

Given what LG, Sharp and Vizio announced....Panasonic looks pretty week - their display design is falling further and further behind...rather disappointing. They seem to have put all their pony's in the 3D race...

I agree, and I am baffled by it, for a few years with Panasonic. Any time someone mentions their poor design, I recall a post on AVS, where someone described the Panasonic designs as 'looking like the back of a bus'.
post #258 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Consider how many units of ExtenZe penis enlargement pills must have have been sold

At least four bottles that I know of...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

public data showed their market share in the plasma business was tiny (less than 5%) compared to Panasonic, Samsung, and LG who collectively dominated with over 90% of sales. This was despite the fact that both trade and mainstream publications (Consumer Reports, e.g.) routinely touted the superiority the Pioneer plasmas and they were sold through mainstream outlets, such as Best Buy.

Shows how effective the buzz is from those publications.
Most buyers don't buy on the buzz, rather on price and availability.
One of the reasons why Chevys outsell Caddys....
post #259 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

I agree, and I am baffled by it, for a few years with Panasonic. Any time someone mentions their poor design, I recall a post on AVS, where someone described the Panasonic designs as 'looking like the back of a bus'.

I actually like the design of my v10... more then the sammy 860 which i had as well.. its a personal preference.
post #260 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

I agree, and I am baffled by it, for a few years with Panasonic. Any time someone mentions their poor design, I recall a post on AVS, where someone described the Panasonic designs as 'looking like the back of a bus'.

Yeah, I don't get it either. They made the Z1, which was a great, understated display with a classy metal finish and extremely thin. But other than that their designs are so.......ughhh.

I think Panasonic's designers actually think they are making good looking sets. There is no other reason for making such trash year after year. It's not like it's hard to emulate what Samsung and Pioneer did. Just a simple black, no nonsense bezel. Why can't they do that?
post #261 of 5848
Yeah, I was going to say that too. Just look at the competition, and modify their design a bit, that's all there is to it; I have seen companies do this quite often with TVs.
post #262 of 5848
I think the design is all about cost.
Flare the bottom out and put speakers in there saves money over the detachable speakers that allow for a more elegant appearance.

The know what looks good, check out the Z1 speakers and the VX100

- Rich
post #263 of 5848
Anyone know if Panny will be rolling out any new pro monitors this year? Would that have been announced at CES?
post #264 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I agree. I don't know why he won't just come out and answer the questions instead of talking around it. I mean he can't still be under NDA now that the product has been introduced as is on display as we are speaking?

Frankly, I'd rather have no answer than an answer that just keeps you guessing.


I think people put too much stock in some things. I think his very knowledgeable person, but not the insider his made himself look out to be.

That doesn't mean he doesn't help or answer some times.

That's my opinion anyways.
post #265 of 5848
PF12 is just being released, using the G12 panels.

The PF11 was completely different processing wise to the G11 Vieras, it did a sort of per pixel scaling which meant it looked razor sharp in comparison when fed a decent signal.
I sold my 500M because I had the PF11 and the extra sharpness outweighed the better blacks on the Kuro for me.

So I am expecting the PF12 to be pretty good.
post #266 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

I agree, and I am baffled by it, for a few years with Panasonic. Any time someone mentions their poor design, I recall a post on AVS, where someone described the Panasonic designs as 'looking like the back of a bus'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 View Post

Yeah, I don't get it either. They made the Z1, which was a great, understated display with a classy metal finish and extremely thin. But other than that their designs are so.......ughhh.

I think Panasonic's designers actually think they are making good looking sets. There is no other reason for making such trash year after year. It's not like it's hard to emulate what Samsung and Pioneer did. Just a simple black, no nonsense bezel. Why can't they do that?

if its so ugly why do people eat them up and put them on back order for months... why not just get sammys then if everyone thinks there the same in performance.. not everyone thinks they look bad.
post #267 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizlaroc View Post

PF12 is just being released, using the G12 panels.

The PF11 was completely different processing wise to the G11 Vieras, it did a sort of per pixel scaling which meant it looked razor sharp in comparison when fed a decent signal.
I sold my 500M because I had the PF11 and the extra sharpness outweighed the better blacks on the Kuro for me.

So I am expecting the PF12 to be pretty good.

Ahh...so there ARE Panny plasmas that don't look a little too soft. I believe the softness is due to what's called PWM noise or spatial dithering? I should learn more about these units. Pf11 or 12 just may be what I have been looking for.
post #268 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

I agree, and I am baffled by it, for a few years with Panasonic. Any time someone mentions their poor design, I recall a post on AVS, where someone described the Panasonic designs as 'looking like the back of a bus'.

Hi QZI,

I have strong feeling that was me - it is something we older types use to say here in England as the "polite' version when describing supposed things of beauty!

I am convinced Panasonic has no clue about the importance of design, form, aesthetics, function & ergonomics - every year I have hope thinking they cannot possibly miss what the rest of the world is doing & convince myself that they will have much better designs in the pipeline which always never turns out to be the case & this year is no exception. They are spectacularly drab & boring sets from a visual appeal point of view and do nothing whatsoever to evoke any kind of positive engagement with the physical product(s). Before anyone says PQ is the most important factor, of course it is but that does not mean aesthetic appeal should automatically be set to less than zero either!


Bazzy!
post #269 of 5848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi QZI,

I have strong feeling that was me - it is something we older types use to say here in England as the "polite' version when describing supposed things of beauty!

I am convinced Panasonic has no clue about the importance of design, form, aesthetics, function & ergonomics - every year I have hope thinking they cannot possibly miss what the rest of the world is doing & convince myself that they will have much better designs in the pipeline which always never turns out to be the case & this year is no exception. They are spectacularly drab & boring sets from a visual appeal point of view and do nothing whatsoever to evoke any kind of positive engagement with the physical product(s). Before anyone says PQ is the most important factor, of course it is but that does not mean aesthetic appeal should automatically be set to less than zero either!


Bazzy!

why complain about your own opinions.. there are plenty of people that like how they look..
post #270 of 5848
I have a question about blacklevel. Currently I have a G9 Kuro (5090), which has a measured blacklevel of 0.0031 cd/m².
The 12G Panasonics have 0.03 cd/m². I read that the 13G Pannas would have a 50% better blacklevel performence, what would result in 0.015 cd/m².

Would it be a big step backward for me or have we reached a level, where its difficult to see ?
I have bought a ambient light, which I mounted behind the Kuro. Now the blacklevel seems perfect for me, even when a total black screen is shown.
I know that 0.015 cd/m² vs 0.0031 cd/m² will be noticeable in a total black environment, but will it be noticeable when a ambient light is turned on ?

Another question I have, is, if the new Panasonic will be much brighter than current Plasmas, especially when compared to Kuro Plasmas.

What about the 120hz ? Will the in and output of 120 hz signals result in better motion results or frame interpolation algorithm ?
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