or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 350

post #10471 of 15225
Hey all. I wanted to get everyone's opinion, and hopefully brian will respond too. Im currently running 2 Hsu 12's, and for the most part have been happy. Recently, however, Im getting frustrated at the lack of extension from them. They are about 5-6 years old, and a bit tired. Seems more and more movie content is <20htz, and mine are solid to about 17-18, but crap out below that. For this reason, Im looking to upgrade, and Ive decided on an FV15HP. The question is, will one be enough?

I listen mostly to movies, with a split between movies and music 70/30. I wouldnt call myself a hard core basshead, but I do like my bass smile.gif Below is a very crude paint of my listening area. The red boxes are where my Hsu's are. The dimensions are 14' wide, 44' long (including the kitchen). The ceiling is 9' until the halfwall, at which point it opens up to a vaulted ceiling.

So what say you? Is one enough or will I need 2?

post #10472 of 15225
Nice room but that's a big open space you have so I'd think you'd need two and I'm not sure that would pressurize that size room but it would definitely give solid, deep output, especially in 1 port mode. I'd also recommend two just to even out frequency response at multiple listening positions.
post #10473 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangst View Post

The dimensions are 14' wide, 44' long (including the kitchen). The ceiling is 9' until the halfwall, at which point it opens up to a vaulted ceiling.

So what say you? Is one enough or will I need 2?

I would definitely get 2, to smoothen out frequency response AND have more output (a room that size needs all the help it can get).

Also, any chance you could place the subs right behind your sectional? They wouldn't be next to the sliding glass door but about 3-4 feet away.
post #10474 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I would definitely get 2, to smoothen out frequency response AND have more output (a room that size needs all the help it can get).

Also, any chance you could place the subs right behind your sectional? They wouldn't be next to the sliding glass door but about 3-4 feet away.

Possibly. Its not the WAF factor Im worried about, its mine. Im not sure how attractive it would be. And when I sub crawled it was a marginal improvement. Dunno if it'd be worth it TBH.
post #10475 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangst View Post

Possibly. Its not the WAF factor Im worried about, its mine. Im not sure how attractive it would be. And when I sub crawled it was a marginal improvement. Dunno if it'd be worth it TBH.

They make tables for behind the couch and you could put the subs under the table. It would look like you almost meant to do it. smile.gif And then you could do 4 FV15HPs! biggrin.gif (It's real easy spending other people's money.)
post #10476 of 15225
Can anyone point my to some solid reviews of the fv15hp by reliable sources? Maybe NY Jim Wilson or someone who has one and comapared it to another sub they have heard that is close in comparison? Maybe a xv15 or pb13ultra?
post #10477 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Can anyone point my to some solid reviews of the fv15hp by reliable sources? Maybe NY Jim Wilson or someone who has one and comapared it to another sub they have heard that is close in comparison? Maybe a xv15 or pb13ultra?



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Rythmik+FV15HP+review
post #10478 of 15225
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems

http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rythmik-fv15hp
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Can anyone point my to some solid reviews of the fv15hp by reliable sources? Maybe NY Jim Wilson or someone who has one and comapared it to another sub they have heard that is close in comparison? Maybe a xv15 or pb13ultra?
post #10479 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangst View Post

Im not sure how attractive it would be.
If you don't find subs attractive, then that would be another reason (albeit a minor reason) for placing them out of view behind you. The main reasons for trying nearfield bass are: a) you hear more of your subs and less of the room, and b) the close proximity helps with output.

BTW, the reason I say "trying" is because it's not a solution you would be stuck with. If you don't like how the subs sound in the nearfield, you can move them to other locations.
post #10480 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Can anyone point my to some solid reviews of the fv15hp by reliable sources? Maybe NY Jim Wilson or someone who has one and comapared it to another sub they have heard that is close in comparison? Maybe a xv15 or pb13ultra?

Is NY Jim Wilson related to NJ Jim Wilson by chance? tongue.gif

The links qguy provided are good ones, so I would encourage you to read those. My only direct exposure to an FV15HP was at a GTG about a year ago, and I came away very impressed. It provided everything you could possibly want; clean sound, lot's of volume and deep bass. It's neither small nor light, but if you want some killer impact -- and the size won't create a WAF issue -- it's definitely worth considering.
post #10481 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Is NY Jim Wilson related to NJ Jim Wilson by chance? tongue.gif

The links qguy provided are good ones, so I would encourage you to read those. My only direct exposure to an FV15HP was at a GTG about a year ago, and I came away very impressed. It provided everything you could possibly want; clean sound, lot's of volume and deep bass. It's neither small nor light, but if you want some killer impact -- and the size won't create a WAF issue -- it's definitely worth considering.

Hahahaha typo! tongue.gif

Thanks Jim!

Its hard to decide which are reliable sources. One Guy who reviewed the fv15hp says the pb13 ultra blows it away and also claim
S its more comparable to the pb12nsd hahahahhaah
post #10482 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Hahahaha typo! tongue.gif

Thanks Jim!

Its hard to decide which are reliable sources. One Guy who reviewed the fv15hp says the pb13 ultra blows it away and also claim
S its more comparable to the pb12nsd hahahahhaah

I would find it VERY hard to believe that a PB13-Ultra would blow away a FV15HP, just head over to data-bass.com and you can see all of the measurements comparing the two. The PB13-Ultra never really has more then a single dB advantage over a FV15HP and there's quite a price difference between the two. IMO the FV15HP is a much better value then the SVS sub.
post #10483 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Its hard to decide which are reliable sources. One Guy who reviewed the fv15hp says the pb13 ultra blows it away and also claim S its more comparable to the pb12nsd hahahahhaah

I would be very cautious of putting much faith in the opinion of anyone who thinks either of those subwoofers "blows away" the other. While numbers certainly don't tell the whole story they do provide a good indication of the basic functionality, and in that regard those two subs are very close. It's almost a matter of preference/features/WAF/price/size at that point.
post #10484 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Hahahaha typo! tongue.gif

Thanks Jim!

Its hard to decide which are reliable sources. One Guy who reviewed the fv15hp says the pb13 ultra blows it away and also claim
S its more comparable to the pb12nsd hahahahhaah

that guy probably does not have a clue...as jim said look over at data-bass.com. the fv15hp has 9db more output then the pb13 at 12.5hz and has more output in both modes above 30hz.
post #10485 of 15225
And that's just in sound output, never mind sound quality.
post #10486 of 15225
I would think that both subs are very close in sound quality.
post #10487 of 15225
That's true.

I can definitely say that my lv12r is the most accurate ported sub I have heard to date
post #10488 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I would be very cautious of putting much faith in the opinion of anyone who thinks either of those subwoofers "blows away" the other. While numbers certainly don't tell the whole story they do provide a good indication of the basic functionality, and in that regard those two subs are very close. It's almost a matter of preference/features/WAF/price/size at that point.

+10

I have owned both and I agree. The rythmik is definitely the winner on value. Both sound excellent but do sound different. Both are worth every penny and are output monsters.
post #10489 of 15225
I hope I'm not the guy your talking about!
post #10490 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

That's true.

I can definitely say that my lv12r is the most accurate ported sub I have heard to date

Almost all of our customers appreciate the cleaner sound quality from our subs. But I do have a couple of them who are so used to sound quality of conventional subs that their first reaction was "I can't hear the bass", or the "bass is not even as good as a 10" sub I had before". Some of them eventually change their opinion. But in the end, I still have a handful of customers who I cannot change their view of how bass should sound like and I respect their opinion.

But setting asid the SQ debate of servo, servo is still a better way of designing subwoofers. I have another customer called me last week inquiring about FV15HP (or F25). He told me he had F15 for a while, then went out and bought an SVS ported sub (around $700 used) and then come back to LV12R. For him, he thinks LV12R has more output below 20hz and therefore extends lower. But in practice our LV12R shouild have similar extension as this SVS model. The advantage of servo is that we have precise control of cone excursion over frequency. So from the design perspective, we know if we are over-done with the rumble filter for ported subs. In short, we can do a much better job with output vs extension trade-off.
post #10491 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Almost all of our customers appreciate the cleaner sound quality from our subs. But I do have a couple of them who are so used to sound quality of conventional subs that their first reaction was "I can't hear the bass", or the "bass is not even as good as a 10" sub I had before". Some of them eventually change their opinion. But in the end, I still have a handful of customers who I cannot change their view of how bass should sound like and I respect their opinion.

But setting asid the SQ debate of servo, servo is still a better way of designing subwoofers. I have another customer called me last week inquiring about FV15HP (or F25). He told me he had F15 for a while, then went out and bought an SVS ported sub (around $700 used) and then come back to LV12R. For him, he thinks LV12R has more output below 20hz and therefore extends lower. But in practice our LV12R shouild have similar extension as this SVS model. The advantage of servo is that we have precise control of cone excursion over frequency. So from the design perspective, we know if we are over-done with the rumble filter for ported subs. In short, we can do a much better job with output vs extension trade-off.

To be fair the SVS PB13Ultra is the cleanest ID sub on the market according to data-bass...atleast it has the lowest THD levels and the most linear response. However I dont use that data as a end all for determining sound quality. I think anybody that has came from a budget sub and upgraded to any of the popular ID sub companies will need to give a bit of time to let thier ears adjust from a boomy one not wonder sub, to a sub that has a good clean response down below 20hz.
post #10492 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

Is there any benefit going with the silver cone over the standard other than asthetics?

No. Both are made of aluminum. The silver cone is actually slightly softer than the black cone. Personally I prefer customers go with black cone. But we do have very limited quantity of silver cone drivers just in case customers really want two-tone design.
post #10493 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

To be fair the SVS PB13Ultra is the cleanest ID sub on the market according to data-bass...atleast it has the lowest THD levels and the most linear response. However I dont use that data as a end all for determining sound quality. I think anybody that has came from a budget sub and upgraded to any of the popular ID sub companies will need to give a bit of time to let thier ears adjust from a boomy one not wonder sub, to a sub that has a good clean response down below 20hz.

I know we all look at the same set of charts and we can walk away with different impression and opinion. Your view of Lowest THD == Cleanest sound, or most linear response == Cleanest sound can be easily challenged in a lot of fronts. If you check out the waterfall plot of PB13U 15hz mode, Josh only plot to -30db below the 0-time response. There is a reason for it. PB13U does have quite a bit of ringing at the lower end and you can see that from impulse response. You do notice the ringing at below 20hz does not drop below -30db even after 300ms (whereas FV15HP 1 port mode drops to below -35db after 250ms). Now waterfall was originally designed to check the enclosure resonance. If we have a bad roll-off filter design resulting in excessive ringing, that is almost same as having a poor enclosure design with an enclosure resonance. But you may ask that it looks like PB13U has the "flattest" frequency response. But in reality is all filters need to have a roll-off contouring curve. The filtering incurs the least amount of ringing is the one with most gradual roll-off and therefore giving the curve that is less flat. But that is just pure mathematics. I know it is counter-intuitive. So is having a longer ringing time equal to the cleanest sound?

Second the linearity of response. FV15HP has very little long term thermal compression. So if we look at the "compression" plot, it is almost flat except the bottom end where the port linearity is the limiting factor. So In that regard, we think FV15HP has more linear response (less compression) and scales better from lowest output plot to the highest output plot.

Third, there is a difference between CEA-2010 measurement and long term response measurement. CEA-2010 is a "pulse" type of max output measurement. On the other hand, the "long term" frequency response in Josh's plot is from steady state. The latter has been used for over 50 years now. But a lot of music and special effects are transient in nature. So CEA-2010 uses "pulses" to measure the burst max output. It serves to complement the conventional "long term" frequency response. I do not know how you interpret the difference between FV15HP and PB13U with respect to those two different max readings with the same subwoofer. But mine is that FV15HP explores the headroom whereas PB13U has no headroom per se. So we should also put that in perspective when we look at the distortion plots between FV15HP and PB13U. If you look at FV15HP one port mode, you will see at the max output (110db plot), the distortion content above 26hz is mostly 2nd order. The 3rd order and 4th order are very low. I remember we had this discussion just a few pages back that Bill and others made comments that high order distortion is more audible and therefore should be kept as low as possible. It is time to put that concept into practice !!! If you look at how distortion content has changed as we move pass below 26hz, it is the 3rd order shoot up and 2nd order goes low and 4th order remains almost under radar. The sudden increase of 3rd order distortion below 26hz is because the amplifier is already into clipping. But the CEA-2010 number indicates that FV15HP should have more output. As I explain, this is because CEA-2010 uses a pulse. Now you can look at the 2 port mode and Josh plot 115db instead of 110db. As you can see there is a slight increase of 3rd order at around 60hz, indicating the amp is into mild clipping while the 4th order remains low. In the hindsight, it is fortunate that Josh plots 1 port and 2 port mode with 5db difference between them. It allows us to observe the distortion characteristic when we can clearly see wheather amp clipping is a factor in distortion number. To summarize, 1) if we can stay within the amp clipping, distortion from FV15HP is mostly 2nd order (which is the least offensive type of HD) and comparing distortion is not as simple as comparing total HD (or THD); 2) the burst output of FV15HP exploits amplifier headroom whereas PB13U does not.

-
Edited by Rythmik - 9/3/13 at 11:20am
post #10494 of 15225
Oh I agree Brian thats why I said I do not put stock in max burst thd graphs alone...Tust me I would much rather have a FV15HP smile.gif
post #10495 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Oh I agree Brian thats why I said I do not put stock in max burst thd graphs alone...Tust me I would much rather have a FV15HP smile.gif

Then why did you buy not one but 3 PSA subs? eek.gif
post #10496 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Then why did you buy not one but 3 PSA subs? eek.gif

I guessing because he's been extremely happy with them.
post #10497 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I guessing because he's been extremely happy with them.

Guessing is very inaccurate overall.

Says one thing and does another.....LOL. I guess whatever boosts the post total.
post #10498 of 15225
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Guessing is very inaccurate overall.

Says one thing and does another.....LOL. I guess whatever boosts the post total.

yeah okay, then why bother posting what you did. rolleyes.gif
post #10499 of 15225
I loved it when I read that some of the "SPL trumps all crowd" describe the sound of Rythmik subs as "dry". Dry, which is the opposite of wet. And really wet is soggy. As is the sound of some of the subs that are supposedly Rythmik's competition!
post #10500 of 15225
What the heck does that even mean for a sub? Or anything speaker-related, just gotta' love all the adjectives reworked for audio reviews...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread