or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 380

post #11371 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

?? I've got a lot of conflicting data from big time sub owners that would disagree on the 'feel' part... it definitely causes a vibration of sorts even though it isn't perceived by our ears.

Now you remind me, those frequencies does rattle my room at around 90db, but that subtracts from the experience, not add...

Edit: even at that level, I can't feel/hear it. The rattle I can feel and hear though... but that's a far higher frequency.
post #11372 of 15139

Interesting. I guess the right answer is snag 2 FV15hp's and be happy?

post #11373 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

HI know it can be one port tuned to 12? 14hz?... but where does that leave the scenes in movies with 10...even 8hz material? Is it true that two subs (with their added surface area) can help it dig even lower? Or is that more of an SPL thing? I'd love to pull the trigger on two of these bad boys but I wouldn't want to spend over two grand on subs just to have them wobble noiselessly then bottom out on mega-low bass scenes. Any help clearing up this matter would be greatly appreciated. I don't WANT to have to build DIY 18's but if that's the only answer to this.... so be it redface.gif

Trying to share perspective in my following comments. Anything below 20Hz, becomes more and more complicated/expensive and like anything, the further one chooses to drill down into the mud the crazier things get.

After a lifetime of productivity, in retirement, I'm a committed laz-o. What does that mean? In life, life becomes a compromise of how far is one willing to chase a rabbit into the briar. Based on what basshead81 showed me the last few days, I'm willing to go as far as two FV15HPs with a possible eye on a third in the future. The deciding factor was the ULF thread and the list of people's rigs in the four, four-and-a-half and five star systems.

.................................................................

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488059/your-home-theater-ulf-score

5 Stars - Above Reference Output

JapanDave - 123@10hz - 2900cf - 23.5 SI - Infinite Baffle 8x18 RE XXX powered by a Lab Gruppen FP10000Q + 1x18 LMS-U

mktheater - 131@10hz - 1574cf - 12 SI - Infinite Baffle 8x18 FI IB3 powered by a fp14000 clone

popalock - 163@10hz - 2605cf - 16 SI - 16 x 18 SIs powered by a 2 fp14000 clones

ricci - 167@10hz - 3600cf - 21.6 SI - 8x18 RE XXX

dominguez1 - 221@12.5hz - 1900cf - 8.6 SI - Dual FTW-21 in sealed cabs powered by 2 ep4000s, Dual FV15HPs

laugsbach - 227 @12.5Hz - 3000cf - 13.2 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - powered (3) EP-4000 amps

lukeamdman - 112@16hz - 2500cf - 22.6 SI - Dual Gjallarhorns, Dual Othorns

siefer300 - 156@16hz - 1404cf - 9 SI - 4 CHT VS18.1, 2 Cap 1000's, powered by Crown XTI 4000s

Toe - 176@16hz - 1500cf - 8.5 SI - 3 SVS PB13-Ultras, 1 SVS PB12/2 Ultra



4.5 Stars - Reference Output (10hz & 12.5hz systems), Above Reference Output (16hz and higher)

miniht - 301@10hz 842cf - 2.8 SI - 1 JTR Cap S2

steveo1234 - 324@10hz 1300cf - 4.2 SI - 6 AE IB 15 (Infinite Baffle)

carp - 379@10hz - 3035cf - 8 SI - 8 x 18 SIs

notnyt - 395@10hz - 6000cf - 15.2 SI - 8 x 18 LMS-U powered by 2 clone amps

desertdome - 384@10hz - 2153cf - 5.6 SI - 8 AE IB 15

laugsbach - 395 @10Hz - 3000cf - 7.6 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - all powered (3) EP-4000 amps

dominguez1 - 432@10hz - 1900cf - 4.4 SI - Dual FTW-21 in sealed cabs powered by 2 ep4000s, Dual FV15HPs

GoCaboNow - 433@10hz - 2600cf - 6 SI - 4x Fi IB3 18's paired with an EP4000

cubalis2 - 561@10hz - 3200cf - 5 SI - 2 x LMS-U 18's FP14K clone, 2 x LMS-R 15"s dual opposed inuke 6000DSP

pbc - 625@10hz - 1750cf - 2.8 SI - 2 dual opposed AE IB 15 subs (4 drivers) powered by Funk Audio 2400x2 - also (515@12.5hz)

Toe - 577@12.5hz - 1500cf - 2.6 SI - 3 SVS PB13-Ultras, 1 SVS PB12/2 Ultra

stereo2.0 - 515@16hz - 3500cf - 6.8 SI - DTS-10, powered by a Proton D1200

mastermaybe - 603@16hz - 2172cf - 3.6 SI - 4 x 18 Dayton HO's powered by Crown xti 4002

archaea - 565@20hz - 3500cf - 6.2 SI - 2 Passive Caps (20hz model) with Crown XLS5000 amps



4 Stars - Reference Output (16-20hz and higher)

wth718 - 700@10hz - 1400cf - 2 SI - 2 x 18 SIs

MikeDuke - 714@10hz - 1000cf - 1.4 SI - 1 SubM HP

HopefulFred - 958@10hz - 2300cf - 2.4 SI - 4 Dayton Audio UM15-22

dguarnaccia - 706@12.5hz - 3953cf - 5.6 SI - 4 x CHT SS18.2s powered by two MQ-600s

landshark1 - 781@16hz - 2500cf - 3.2 SI - Dual PB12 Plus

basshead81 - 800@16hz - 2400cf - 3 SI - 3 PSA XV15's

christmclean - 910@16hz - 1456cf - 1.6 SI - 1 SVS PB12-Plus

Ralph Potts - 1120@16hz - 2576cf - 2.3 SI - 1 SVS PB13-Ultra (15hz)

.................................................................

An aside. Regarding subwoofers and Home Theater efforts, I will characterize my efforts as sane. Sane being defined as not over the cliff behavior. Look at the list of participant rigs in the four star list. Compare this to the listed rigs in the four-and-a-half and five star systems. What this list shows, anything above and beyond a four star system and the individual will have to jump into a completely different world. I won't use any adjectives above and beyond esoteric as this is a hobby. Whether pumpkin chunkin, playing with rockets, RC vehicles or ocean running speed boats, look at any hobby and one can see that it's easy to jump over the cliff of sanity. The point, in answer to your question, it all depends on how crazy one wants to get with this hobby and as is the case with any hobby, whether photography, cruise ship riding or paragliding, one has to decide how stupid they're willing get.

Hope the above ramblings help with your question.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/10/13 at 11:33am
post #11374 of 15139
Well stated BeeMan

One thing interesting to note from that list of 4 star folk is the fact that our official AVS bluray reviewer Ralph Potts' system is listed. He seems to get allot of criticism at times in "The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts".
post #11375 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by willscary View Post

This sub just plain flat out reveals more deep bas detail than any subs I have ever heard. I would like to say it is the Rythmik servo system, but I really have no idea. Perhaps the Seatons and the JTRs are even better...I have never heard them....
I am very thrilled that I took that leap!

I have no doubt that the improvement is rooted in servo control and, with due deligence, bring all others (such as driver, amplifier circuit topology, and enclosure) up to the same level. I never believe a single hero can rescue the world. Instead it must be a team work. So other companies put servo sub in really spartan style enclosures, you don't find it in our subs. Same is the amplifier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willscary View Post

Well, here's my deal...
The pluck of each bass string can be clearly heard. Not just the pluck of each different note, but the fingers on the strings, the accompanying tones that the sliding skin on the steel strings creates...in perfect time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

To me what you've described, I characterize as being opened up. The detail of the track is allowed to run free. The difference between a compressed and uncompressed track is the difference between alive and flat. The decay of the piano note is extended. The sizzle of the high hat is expanded. The open, airy quality of the sound stage is presented for the pleasure of the listener. As I posted, I hate this kind of talk because what you describe can be like a drug that interferes with normal listening pleasures as one becomes about the nuances as opposed to the movie unfolding before one's eyes.

You two gave me an idea on how to explain "coherent sound reproduction". The idea is to chop the sound of this plucking of each bass string sound into tiny slices (just like the movie frames). After the slicing, one can see the "flow" of sound is from one frame to next (this frame is much smaller than the frame MP3 uses). So in a sense each frame represents a "state" (very much like steady "state" or transient "state"). If we chop the sequence fine enough, we may find that some frames are identical and therefore we can rethink these frame to frame playback as state to state playback. In addition, we may see state A transitions to state B at one time intance and state A transitions to state Z at another time instance. The important aspect is the reproduction of say state B should not depend on which state it is from. If it does, it is a memory effect. A result of memory effect on these tiny frame, is the phase and amplitude may deviate slightly from the correct reproduction of that frame. But If one wants to use DFT and FFT which lump all these frames into one single FFT/DFT run, the incorrect reproduction will appear as a little bit of zig-zag on the frequency plots. However, engineers most likely attribute that as "noise" and never care to investigate further. But in reality, it is indeed becoming more like noise. That is the once clearly distinguishable "plucking of each bass string" now sounds like it is covered in a fog with the underlying music is still playing, but the nusance now becomes more like noise. I have found to be able to hear this well, we really need to push to 14hz and Q value of 0.5. I am pretty sure someone else will also question why a subwoofer can affect sound quality that is not in the bass region. Yes. it is really the case that a subwoofer with bad memory effects and long ringing can affect the clarify of sound above bass frequency range. That "14hz extension and Q value of 0.5" I started using 10 years ago, quickly turn into an SPL competition. So for comments like 18" drivers must be better than a 15" or even 8" in terms of bass, all I can do is "sigh .."
post #11376 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Well stated BeeMan

Thanks! biggrin.gif
post #11377 of 15139
Finish options for the Rythmik D15 downfiring sub.

Currently only piano black SE is available. Black oak is listed as an option. Are there plans for a black oak finish? Will future D15's be available with the 600 watt amp?

Thanks

Zeuspaul
post #11378 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I have found to be able to hear this well, we really need to push to 14hz and Q value of 0.5. I am pretty sure someone else will also question why a subwoofer can affect sound quality that is not in the bass region. Yes. it is really the case that a subwoofer with bad memory effects and long ringing can affect the clarify of sound above bass frequency range. That "14hz extension and Q value of 0.5" I started using 10 years ago, quickly turn into an SPL competition. So for comments like 18" drivers must be better than a 15" or even 8" in terms of bass, all I can do is "sigh .."

Being a layperson, I'm having to hazard a guess. Are you describing sloppy bass and what it takes to make bass reproduction articulate and not allow harmonics (3rd, 4th & 5th order) to muddy the sound?

(the only Thiele-Small that I know what to do with is Xmax)
post #11379 of 15139
^^^

It is not so much of harmonic distortion, or Xmax. All instruments have their harmonic contents. Shouldn't the harmonic contents of the instrument more or less mask out harmonic distortion? Say an instrument has 30% harmonic content in 2nd harmonic, wouldn't any 2nd harmonic distortion of 5% or less be really a non-issue? If harmonic distortion is low enough, what would be other factors affecting sound quality? The ability for Willscary to hear the plucking of string is played well under Xmax for both F25 and his older SVS. So even when a subwoofer plays well under its Xmax, it can make a difference in sound.

An example of a incoherent sound is like the one shown in thermal compression:



While this is more an extreme case, it does demonstrate there are other factors affecting the reproduction of a coherent sound. Harmonic distortion is the easiest to understand, but it is completely orthognal to other artifacts affecting sound quality. In the above figures, the signal strength at time 0 and at time 6.55 seconds are different when they are suppposed to be same. Wouldn't that affect the sound reproduction? Yes it will when in a complex music signal when at one instance is played louder than what it should be and in the next moment it is played at less loud than what it should be.

BTW, a correct version of the above plot should be like this:


Edited by Rythmik - 11/10/13 at 1:50pm
post #11380 of 15139
Thank-you for your efforts but my understanding is too limited to appreciate what you're thoughtfully sharing.

...redface.gif

(ya gotta dumb it down a bunch for me to keep up with what you're trying to share)
post #11381 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thank-you for your efforts but my understanding is too limited to appreciate what you're thoughtfully sharing.

...redface.gif

(ya gotta dumb it down a bunch for me to keep up with what you're trying to share)

In essence, thermal compression is what occurs when the voice coil on the driver starts to heat up. The sound will often "compress", or become less dynamic, because the heat is starting to alter the resistance in the voice coil. As the resistance increases the amp is forced to provide more and more power in order to maintain the same level of output, but at some point the heat in the voice coil -- and the finite amount of current the amp can provide -- conspire against you, and the sound quality will suffer. The graph is just basically showing the effect visually.
post #11382 of 15139
Thanks! Got it.
post #11383 of 15139
I received my second F12SE on Friday. I set up both subs on either side of my rack on the front wall of my room. My room (living room) is open on one side which isn't the best setup but it is what it is. I level matched both subs to 75dB using Audyssey and once that was done ran a full eight position calibration. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed as the bass seems localized on the left side of my room (the side with the corner). I'm not looking for foundation shaking bass just uniform bass that is not localized. It almost seems that my bass was less localized with just the one F12SE located in the left front corner of the room.

I'm sure it is nothing related to the F12SEs but the limited sub placement options I have and my room in general. I have yet to get a calibrated mic so I can use REW. So I have no way to measure the subs to see what is really going on. Is the issue of the bass prominence on the left side of my room normal when using two subs where ones room is open on one side? Is there anything that can be corrected by any settings with either one of the F12SEs or Audyssey? Due to the size of my room (14Dx17W) and the amount of furniture I'm very limited to locations for both subs. My apologies in advance for my very limited knowledge of sub calibration redface.gif. Thanks in advance for any help with this smile.gif.

Bill
post #11384 of 15139
Bill-what are the post-Audyssey trim levels for each sub?
post #11385 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Bill-what are the post-Audyssey trim levels for each sub?

Steve,

The post Audyssey settings is -8.5 for both subs which I raised to -7.5 for both.

Bill
post #11386 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

In essence, thermal compression is what occurs when the voice coil on the driver starts to heat up. The sound will often "compress", or become less dynamic, because the heat is starting to alter the resistance in the voice coil. As the resistance increases the amp is forced to provide more and more power in order to maintain the same level of output, but at some point the heat in the voice coil -- and the finite amount of current the amp can provide -- conspire against you, and the sound quality will suffer. The graph is just basically showing the effect visually.

Lets not forget what happens when the voice coil cools down. Instead of compressing, expansion now happens. It is the on-going expanding and compressing that creates this time variant memory effect.
post #11387 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Trying to share perspective in my following comments. Anything below 20Hz, becomes more and more complicated/expensive and like anything, the further one chooses to drill down into the mud the crazier things get.

After a lifetime of productivity, in retirement, I'm a committed laz-o. What does that mean? In life, life becomes a compromise of how far is one willing to chase a rabbit into the briar. Based on what basshead81 showed me the last few days, I'm willing to go as far as two FV15HPs with a possible eye on a third in the future. The deciding factor was the ULF thread and the list of people's rigs in the four, four-and-a-half and five star systems.

.................................................................

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488059/your-home-theater-ulf-score

5 Stars - Above Reference Output

JapanDave - 123@10hz - 2900cf - 23.5 SI - Infinite Baffle 8x18 RE XXX powered by a Lab Gruppen FP10000Q + 1x18 LMS-U

mktheater - 131@10hz - 1574cf - 12 SI - Infinite Baffle 8x18 FI IB3 powered by a fp14000 clone

popalock - 163@10hz - 2605cf - 16 SI - 16 x 18 SIs powered by a 2 fp14000 clones

ricci - 167@10hz - 3600cf - 21.6 SI - 8x18 RE XXX

dominguez1 - 221@12.5hz - 1900cf - 8.6 SI - Dual FTW-21 in sealed cabs powered by 2 ep4000s, Dual FV15HPs

laugsbach - 227 @12.5Hz - 3000cf - 13.2 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - powered (3) EP-4000 amps

lukeamdman - 112@16hz - 2500cf - 22.6 SI - Dual Gjallarhorns, Dual Othorns

siefer300 - 156@16hz - 1404cf - 9 SI - 4 CHT VS18.1, 2 Cap 1000's, powered by Crown XTI 4000s

Toe - 176@16hz - 1500cf - 8.5 SI - 3 SVS PB13-Ultras, 1 SVS PB12/2 Ultra



4.5 Stars - Reference Output (10hz & 12.5hz systems), Above Reference Output (16hz and higher)

miniht - 301@10hz 842cf - 2.8 SI - 1 JTR Cap S2

steveo1234 - 324@10hz 1300cf - 4.2 SI - 6 AE IB 15 (Infinite Baffle)

carp - 379@10hz - 3035cf - 8 SI - 8 x 18 SIs

notnyt - 395@10hz - 6000cf - 15.2 SI - 8 x 18 LMS-U powered by 2 clone amps

desertdome - 384@10hz - 2153cf - 5.6 SI - 8 AE IB 15

laugsbach - 395 @10Hz - 3000cf - 7.6 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - all powered (3) EP-4000 amps

dominguez1 - 432@10hz - 1900cf - 4.4 SI - Dual FTW-21 in sealed cabs powered by 2 ep4000s, Dual FV15HPs

GoCaboNow - 433@10hz - 2600cf - 6 SI - 4x Fi IB3 18's paired with an EP4000

cubalis2 - 561@10hz - 3200cf - 5 SI - 2 x LMS-U 18's FP14K clone, 2 x LMS-R 15"s dual opposed inuke 6000DSP

pbc - 625@10hz - 1750cf - 2.8 SI - 2 dual opposed AE IB 15 subs (4 drivers) powered by Funk Audio 2400x2 - also (515@12.5hz)

Toe - 577@12.5hz - 1500cf - 2.6 SI - 3 SVS PB13-Ultras, 1 SVS PB12/2 Ultra

stereo2.0 - 515@16hz - 3500cf - 6.8 SI - DTS-10, powered by a Proton D1200

mastermaybe - 603@16hz - 2172cf - 3.6 SI - 4 x 18 Dayton HO's powered by Crown xti 4002

archaea - 565@20hz - 3500cf - 6.2 SI - 2 Passive Caps (20hz model) with Crown XLS5000 amps



4 Stars - Reference Output (16-20hz and higher)

wth718 - 700@10hz - 1400cf - 2 SI - 2 x 18 SIs

MikeDuke - 714@10hz - 1000cf - 1.4 SI - 1 SubM HP

HopefulFred - 958@10hz - 2300cf - 2.4 SI - 4 Dayton Audio UM15-22

dguarnaccia - 706@12.5hz - 3953cf - 5.6 SI - 4 x CHT SS18.2s powered by two MQ-600s

landshark1 - 781@16hz - 2500cf - 3.2 SI - Dual PB12 Plus

basshead81 - 800@16hz - 2400cf - 3 SI - 3 PSA XV15's

christmclean - 910@16hz - 1456cf - 1.6 SI - 1 SVS PB12-Plus

Ralph Potts - 1120@16hz - 2576cf - 2.3 SI - 1 SVS PB13-Ultra (15hz)

.................................................................

An aside. Regarding subwoofers and Home Theater efforts, I will characterize my efforts as sane. Sane being defined as not over the cliff behavior. Look at the list of participant rigs in the four star list. Compare this to the listed rigs in the four-and-a-half and five star systems. What this list shows, anything above and beyond a four star system and the individual will have to jump into a completely different world. I won't use any adjectives above and beyond esoteric as this is a hobby. Whether pumpkin chunkin, playing with rockets, RC vehicles or ocean running speed boats, look at any hobby and one can see that it's easy to jump over the cliff of sanity. The point, in answer to your question, it all depends on how crazy one wants to get with this hobby and as is the case with any hobby, whether photography, cruise ship riding or paragliding, one has to decide how stupid they're willing get.

Hope the above ramblings help with your question.

-

Well that was... interesting. A bit of a head scratcher but... I think I get your point. Doesn't matter anyways, had a moment of weakness and went ahead on the 5.2 HT purchase last night with two FV15hp's... unfortunately I'm in Afghanistan until late December (sad panda) so I won't have any fun until then. Can't wait to update you guys though.

post #11388 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

Well that was... interesting. A bit of a head scratcher but... I think I get your point.

Sorry, trying to be pithy. I wasn't trying to post in code. Congrats on your purchase as I believe for the money, two FV15HPs is as good as it's going get. From there, you'll be going into the world of the fanatical people; fans. biggrin.gif

(Dad was SAC, I was a fleet sailor and my step-son recently retired from the AirForce. His son is now Air Force. As always, be safe and look forward to your homecoming in December.)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/10/13 at 7:36pm
post #11389 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Sorry, trying to be pithy. I wasn't trying to post in code. Congrats on your purchase as I believe for the money, two FV15HPs is as good as it's going get. From there, you'll be going into the world of the fanatical people; fans. biggrin.gif

(Dad was SAC, I was a fleet sailor and my step-son recently retired from the AirForce. His son is now Air Force. As always, be safe and look forward to your homecoming in December.)

-

Hey that's awesome! I'm Air Force and used to be based at Offutt (SAC headquarters) Appreciate ya'll!

post #11390 of 15139
...biggrin.gif
post #11391 of 15139
Happy Veterans' Day to all of you!
post #11392 of 15139

great.agree,It would be nice if we can have a display in the front plus a remote control. But I need help on that. Anyone good at writing PIC microcode shoots me an email.

32.gif

post #11393 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

Hello all, I've been following this thread for almost 100 pages and have been reading all kinds of reviews on the FV15hp, even talked with Rythmik about it... and I have a couple questions.
My only fear with this sub is its reach. I know it can be one port tuned to 12? 14hz?... but where does that leave the scenes in movies with 10...even 8hz material? Is it true that two subs (with their added surface area) can help it dig even lower? Or is that more of an SPL thing? I'd love to pull the trigger on two of these bad boys but I wouldn't want to spend over two grand on subs just to have them wobble noiselessly then bottom out on mega-low bass scenes. Any help clearing up this matter would be greatly appreciated. I don't WANT to have to build DIY 18's but if that's the only answer to this.... so be it redface.gif

You've been reading those Subwoofer GTG reports, haven't you?! wink.gif Here's what you have to keep in mind: The sub enthusiasts at that level are very experienced and knowledgeable guys, who have invested years working their way up to that level. I know you want a sub system like those guys have, but no, you can't just buy one (see below). You said that if what it takes to get a sub that will do what you want it to do requires you to DIY, then you'll do it. Easier said than done! Do you know how to "model" a sub? You have to feed all the driver specs, the enclosure volume---deciding between ported and sealed, amount of enclosure damping---polyfill, the amplifier power at varying impedances, the system alignment---flat to what frequency and roll off at what rate below that, and lots of other information into a computer program; then juggle and balance all of the conflicting tradeoffs, making the necessary compromises between all of the components, to arrive at an acceptable system---Q, Fs, Xmax---how far in millimeters the driver cone will move versus how much power it takes to get it to do so at different frequencies versus how much power the driver can handle before it bottoms out, and lots of other things. You'll also have to know enough about electronic theory and electrical engineering to address the necessary high-pass and low-pass crossovers. Like I said, you can't just buy a sub system like that (still below)---you have to design it. You said you would go DIY if that's what it takes. Well, yes, that's what it takes. You have to design it yourself (with help from the other guys already doing what you want to do). Those guys are hard-core bass enthusiasts, determined to have a sub system with unlimited headroom---the ability to play as loudly and as low in frequency as is currently possible. If it turns out that you are as well, start reading everything you can find on the subject. You'll need to be able to design and build the enclosures, requiring a shop full of tools and the knowledge to use them. With the design finalized, you can then start your build---buy the drivers, the amplifiers, the crossovers, the wood, the tools, and all the other parts that go into a subwoofer. Going DIY will allow you to get, hopefully, a sub that will not only work, but that will live up to your expectations as well. Or, you can pay someone else to do all of the designing and building for you. The well-healed enthusiast who lacks the knowledge, ability, and/or desire to build a mega-woofer can pay one of the companies (you know the names) who cater to this group of consumers to build him the sub-system of his dreams. Be prepared to spend a LOT more than you will for a pair of Rythmiks. And speaking of Rythmik.....this high-output sub you have presumably gotten yourself, will it sound as good as a Rythmik? High-output at very low frequencies is but one (or is it two?!) performance characteristics by which to measure a sub's performance. To read the Subwoofer GTG reports you could be forgiven for thinking it is the only one. What ARE your subwoofer performance and characteristic priorities? Before one buys any sub, it might be wise to know the answer to that question.
Edited by BDP24 - 11/11/13 at 7:12am
post #11394 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derko View Post

Hello! Just placed an order for a LV12R. It will be replacing a 4 year old Bic H-100. I'm super excited!!! I can't wait to get it! biggrin.gif

I was wondering if anyone has pictures of the oak finish? On the product page, there's no pics and I've only found shots of the matte finish on google.

Congrats. I'm really enamoured with mine. You will find it to be soo much better than the BIC it replaces.
post #11395 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post


You've been reading those Subwoofer GTG reports, haven't you?! wink.gif 

BDP, I cut your quote to save internet space :p But, in a word, yes. I know what's all involved in DIY. I can see how my post made it seem like I was being very laid back about 'Well I guess I'll just go DIY'. I'm new to home audio but I've dabbled in car audio. Very different realms. Anyways I appreciate your input but I already ordered two Rythmiks! I'm thinking I'll do DIY down the road if/when my Rythmiks don't cut it.

Still have an unanswered question though. I don't claim to have been a professional in car audio, just had the ability to wire amps and build boxes and know good from bad... never really dealt with Hz ratings though. 

When it comes to dual FV15HPs vs. single... what is added besides the over stated 'smoothing out' effect? Is it easier to go down to 14hz? Does it only add SPL? Does it allow adding 3-6db gain without causing compression? These were my original concerns for the Rythmiks. You can draw your own opinion of me since I am asking this after buying 2 :rolleyes: as you may have read in above posts.

post #11396 of 15139
All my babbling for nothing! If you stack the subs, having two will get you get 6 dB (average) more output. If you don't, having two will get you 3dB. But the thing is, the output of ported subs drops off at 12dB per octave below the tuning frequency, sealed drop off at 6dB/octave below resonance. But at and above the tuning frequency, the ported will have more output in the next octave up than the equivalent sealed. And then, with sealed the room gain will increase the sub's output as the frequency drops, but won't for the ported. I think. So at 20Hz, the ported will have more output, but at a little lower in frequency, the sealed and the ported outputs will cross each other, the sealed gaining, the ported losing, in output. Located apart, you can place them to help minimize room-dimension-related nulls or peaks in frequency response. The higher you cross-over to your speakers, the closer the subs will need to be to them.
Edited by BDP24 - 11/11/13 at 8:20am
post #11397 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

When it comes to dual FV15HPs vs. single... what is added besides the over stated 'smoothing out' effect? Is it easier to go down to 14hz? Does it only add SPL? Does it allow adding 3-6db gain without causing compression?

Smoothing issues aside, assuming a reasonably flat graph where issues of peaks and nulls have been dealt with, see the subwoofer's output in the form of a platform and a ramp at the left end of the shipping platform. On the left side of the platform is a hinged ramp which represents the lower octaves and what's known as roll-off. As support for the ramp is lessened, the roll off increased to the point where it becomes quite literally, a dive. Ten dB down from peak is equal to losing half the volume and it takes eight times the power to double a perceived doubling of volume.

It takes a doubling of power to increase volume 3dB and it takes 10dB to double the perceived sound output.

Humans don't do well in the lower octaves and as roll-off occurs, our perception of the lower frequencies drops dramatically. The larger the room, the easier it is for bass waves to get lost. Just as the larger the hole is in a water tank, the harder it is for a pump to keep the tank full. The point, keeping that left side of the graph supported, means everything when it comes to the subwoofer experience and that's where the second, third or forth subwoofer comes into play; trying to keep the sound tank full at the lower frequencies.

Just saying, based on what I've recently learned regarding this matter, to take what I perceive to be full advantage of the output of the FV15HP, in our 3,300^3 living room, I will need three FV15HPs.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/11/13 at 8:49am
post #11398 of 15139
^^ I don't think you need but WANT 3 of them. A single fv15hp is categorized as for Xtra large room (5000 ft^3) per audioholic but I guest they are not as 'bass head' as most of us here.
post #11399 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ I don't think you need but WANT 3 of them. A single fv15hp is categorized as for Xtra large room (5000 ft^3) per audioholic but I guest they are not as 'bass head' as most of us here.

I'm trying to be forward looking. When I purchase, I expect to buy two and based on measurements, will keep my options open. I really am doing this from a logical standpoint. And if measurements shows that I won't take benefit of a third subwoofer, my wife will be relieved to know, I won't buy a third, unneeded subwoofer. I have no idea what a four star system sounds like and I have no idea if I "need/want" a four-and-a-half star system but it never hurts to keep the mind open.

In the end, I want this to be a one-off purchase because I don't want to get caught by the upgrade bug.

Reading the Audioholics review of the FV15HP, I do get the impression that two of them will be more than sufficient in blowing our doors off.

Audioholics review of the Rythmik FV15HP.

From page two:

"Weighing in at 120lbs and standing two feet tall, this sub is an imposing presence, and when excited will let you know in no uncertain terms it is in the room. Keep it away from glass or china or neighbors prone to calling the police if they think the side of the building was just hit by a truck. This sub goes from being completely silent to massively loud in a few milliseconds."

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/11/13 at 9:27am
post #11400 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


I'm trying to be forward looking. When I purchase, I expect to buy two and based on measurements, will keep my options open. I really am doing this from a logical standpoint. And if measurements shows that I won't take benefit of a third subwoofer, my wife will be relieved to know, I won't buy a third, unneeded subwoofer. I have no idea what a four star system sounds like and I have no idea if I "need/want" a four-and-a-half star system but it never hurts to keep the mind open.

In the end, I want this to be a one-off purchase because I don't want to get caught by the upgrade bug.

-

You know once you have 2 you are going to wonder what a third behind the couch would be like....

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread