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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 381

post #11401 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by usaforce87 View Post

You know once you have 2 you are going to wonder what a third behind the couch would be like....

Agreed, that's why I'm keeping my thinking open to a third. In our case, just saying, one is going be behind the couch. But we have a corner behind a large easy chair where a third FV15HP, if need be, could easily be hidden away from view.
post #11402 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed as the bass seems localized on the left side of my room (the side with the corner).
Can you physically unplug all your speakers temporarily and listen to just the two subs? Does the bass still sound like it is localized to the left side of the room?
post #11403 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3db View Post

Congrats. I'm really enamoured with mine. You will find it to be soo much better than the BIC it replaces.

Thanks! I can not wait for it to arrive!!!! It is due in before 5pm on Thursday. So I hope it's a short next 3 days. biggrin.gif

Now, I need to figure out what to do with my h-100, since my wife is already giving me a nasty face about it. eek.gif
post #11404 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Agreed, that's why I'm keeping my thinking open to a third. In our case, just saying, one is going be behind the couch. But we have a corner behind a large easy chair where a third FV15HP, if need be, could easily be hidden away from view.
A nearfield FV15HP is going to be intense! (in a good way)
post #11405 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

A nearfield FV15HP is going to be intense! (in a good way)

...biggrin.gif...biggrin.gif...biggrin.gif

In a few days, I'll be able to do the final measurements with the subwoofers we have to see how the position behind the sofa is going play out.

...biggrin.gif...biggrin.gif...biggrin.gif
post #11406 of 15160
^^ When are going to place the order?
post #11407 of 15160
I can't say for sure. I'm getting rid of a service truck and in doing so will be rid of the insurance payment and the price of the annual registration. I'm going have to say, maybe a couple more months but I feel my discipline slipping fast so sooner than later.

I may have to buy one and later buy a second one so as to not fiscally scare my wife. That's why I want to do final placement measurements to see if I can get by with a single subwoofer or if I'll have to buy doubles.

If I thought I could do it today, I would but if I did, it would tick the wife off as she already knows it's going happen.

-
post #11408 of 15160
I don't know your room layout, but since it's nearfield, there's a decent chance that one could do the job - especially if it's on your side of the couch.
post #11409 of 15160
Hey all you subwoofer buffs, I am looking to purchase a FV15HP soon but am wondering if keeping my current dual Klipsch RPW-10's along with the FV15HP would make any sense? My media room is about 2500 cu ft, with the rear open to the kids playroom. I was thinking of stacking the RPW's on one side of the towers, then putting the Rythmik beside the other tower.
Thoughts? Excuse my newbie question.
Thanks
post #11410 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Can you physically unplug all your speakers temporarily and listen to just the two subs? Does the bass still sound like it is localized to the left side of the room?

Sanjay,

That's a great idea smile.gif. I can turn of my amp so that just my subs will be playing. I'll give that a try tomorrow. Thanks!

Bill
post #11411 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlozy View Post

Hey all you subwoofer buffs, I am looking to purchase a FV15HP soon but am wondering if keeping my current dual Klipsch RPW-10's along with the FV15HP would make any sense? My media room is about 2500 cu ft, with the rear open to the kids playroom. I was thinking of stacking the RPW's on one side of the towers, then putting the Rythmik beside the other tower.
Thoughts? Excuse my newbie question.
Thanks
You can try and hear it for yourself. Your Klipsch FR is 35-120Hz +/-3dB, 10" 200W , so it does not dig deep at all and does not seem to be able to play loud either- I would try to sell them to obtain another FV15hp.
post #11412 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I can't say for sure. I'm getting rid of a service truck and in doing so will be rid of the insurance payment and the price of the annual registration. I'm going have to say, maybe a couple more months but I feel my discipline slipping fast so sooner than later.

I may have to buy one and later buy a second one so as to not fiscally scare my wife. That's why I want to do final placement measurements to see if I can get by with a single subwoofer or if I'll have to buy doubles.

If I thought I could do it today, I would but if I did, it would tick the wife off as she already knows it's going happen.

-

Don't forget about the 10% discount when one buys multiple subs. And the discount is on both subs.
post #11413 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

Don't forget about the 10% discount when one buys multiple subs. And the discount is on both subs.

Thanks for the heads-up.
post #11414 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

...five star systems.

Given that these systems undoubtedly deliver more than reference level peaks for LFE, if they're set up for a flat response with the main speakers (accounting for +10 dB SPL for LFE), is there any benefit when listening at reference or lower levels? I can think of two possibilities: a) Since all the subs are playing far below their maximum output they will have less distortion than fewer playing near max output, b) multiple subs will give a smoother response at frequencies where you have standing waves. These systems seem to have that covered several times over.

Of course there's the more is more benefit, but I'm talking about what's audible over a system that will give you a clean 115 dB SPL at your seat.
post #11415 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

^^^

If you use LFE inputs, the phase/delay knob has no function. The reason is you can also use distance setting on your AVR to achieve the same goal. On the other hand, if you use line in, then the phase/delay knob has function. You don't really need phase control if you place the sub next to your mains.

Would there be a difference if I used LFE vs line in with phase/delay set to 0?
post #11416 of 15160
If I turn the Sub off, where will the stuff below my crossover go or will it just not be heard/felt?
post #11417 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by User5910 View Post

Given that these systems undoubtedly deliver more than reference level peaks for LFE, if they're set up for a flat response with the main speakers (accounting for +10 dB SPL for LFE), is there any benefit when listening at reference or lower levels? I can think of two possibilities: a) Since all the subs are playing far below their maximum output they will have less distortion than fewer playing near max output, b) multiple subs will give a smoother response at frequencies where you have standing waves. These systems seem to have that covered several times over.

Of course there's the more is more benefit, but I'm talking about what's audible over a system that will give you a clean 115 dB SPL at your seat.

In your above, I'm really not sure of the point you're wanting to make. confused.gif

If I understand your above correctly, in our case, I want a reference capable system, that will dig deep with authority, that isn't veiled and has the ability to instantaneously reproduce what the producer and the sound engineer had in mind when they laid down the sound tracks. After putting the subwoofer system together that will meed all these requirements, I'll be looking to add an Audyssey MultEQ XT32 capable AVR to EQ the system. Our current EQ system consists of a Anti-Mode 8033S II and an AVR that is equipped with Aydyssey MultEQ XT.
post #11418 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by User5910 View Post

Given that these systems undoubtedly deliver more than reference level peaks for LFE, if they're set up for a flat response with the main speakers (accounting for +10 dB SPL for LFE), is there any benefit when listening at reference or lower levels? I can think of two possibilities: a) Since all the subs are playing far below their maximum output they will have less distortion than fewer playing near max output, b) multiple subs will give a smoother response at frequencies where you have standing waves. These systems seem to have that covered several times over.

Of course there's the more is more benefit, but I'm talking about what's audible over a system that will give you a clean 115 dB SPL at your seat.
Just tune it to your preferences. It's common to turn up the sub level a little above flat. You don't keep your main volume lower than you like so you'll have extra headroom. You set the volume to the way you like it.
post #11419 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

If I turn the Sub off, where will the stuff below my crossover go or will it just not be heard/felt?
It goes to Narnia.
post #11420 of 15160
Brian,

I have a suggestion. It seems like the word is getting out that the LV12R is a fantastic subwoofer at it's price point (I can attest to that) and are seeking out pictures of the finishes, driver and amplifier. It might not be a bad idea to add some to your website so people don't have to come search on here or various search engines online. Just a thought! I know you are a busy man building these fantastic subwoofers, but if you happen to have some spare time. Still loving my dual LV12R's......
post #11421 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still lll View Post

Would there be a difference if I used LFE vs line in with phase/delay set to 0?
If you set it to phase 0, AVR/12, and turn the crossover frequency all the way to the right, then line in becomes like LFE. With LFE, there is no low-pass crossover to the sub. If you set line-in like I said, the low-pass crossover is set so that it has virtually no effect. If you use the bass management in a pre-amp/receiver that applies a crossover, you usually want to do one of these, so you don't double-up the crossover. If you are getting high frequency noise to the subwoofer from the LFE jack, sometimes it's useful to switch to line-in, so you can filter out the noise. Also, if you need to the tune phase with your sub rather than your pre-amp/receiver, you need to use line-in. This is useful if your receiver only has a single sub out jack and the speakers are different distances.

Here's the ideal setup, in my opinion. (Some of this assumes a rectangular, closed room.)

1) Pre-amp receiver with 2 sub outs jacks.
2) 1-2 equidistant (with each other) subs in the front corner(s) of the room, using the 1st sub out.
3) 1-2 equidistant (with each other) subs in the back corner(s) of the room, using the 2nd sub out. Use opposing corners for 2 subs, 4 corners for 4 subs.
4) Plug into the LFE inputs on all subs.
5) Set all speakers to small, even if they are large.
6) Crossover at 80hz usually works well, but you may need to go up for small speakers. I haven't had much luck going lower, even for large speakers.
7) Use the receiver to automatically or manually set distances (delay) to the front sub(s) and back sub(s) to time align with each-other and with speakers.
8) All subs are identical.
9) Some form of sub EQ (Audyssey XT32, external sub EQ, built-in sub EQ).
post #11422 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

You don't keep your main volume lower than you like so you'll have extra headroom. You set the volume to the way you like it.

confused.gif Actually, my understanding, the whole idea of Audyssey is to know what's what with volume settings and in order for it all to work, sans subwoofers, one needs to have a reference capable sound system. confused.gif

(and I know you know this, hence my confusion)
post #11423 of 15160
^^ Line in on Rythmik sub reduces FR to 14 to 90hz where LFE input has 14-200hz for the fv15hp. 19-100hz using line in and 19-300hz using LFE for the lv12r. So depends on how low speakers can get (including surrounds), one might need to use the LFE input if the lowest one of his speakers can go down to is 110hz.
post #11424 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derko View Post

Thanks! I can not wait for it to arrive!!!! It is due in before 5pm on Thursday. So I hope it's a short next 3 days. biggrin.gif

Now, I need to figure out what to do with my h-100, since my wife is already giving me a nasty face about it. eek.gif

I took my old PSB sub and hid behind a corner wall unit which houses a Toshiba 32" CRT and my older Technics AVR in what is now a 2.1 channel configuration. I'm looking to replace teh carppy technics speakers with some used PSB for the right price. smile.gif
post #11425 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Brian,

I have a suggestion. It seems like the word is getting out that the LV12R is a fantastic subwoofer at it's price point (I can attest to that) and are seeking out pictures of the finishes, driver and amplifier. It might not be a bad idea to add some to your website so people don't have to come search on here or various search engines online. Just a thought!

I know Jim also reminded me many times. I am working on it now.
post #11426 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I received my second F12SE on Friday. I set up both subs on either side of my rack on the front wall of my room. My room (living room) is open on one side which isn't the best setup but it is what it is. I level matched both subs to 75dB using Audyssey and once that was done ran a full eight position calibration. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed as the bass seems localized on the left side of my room (the side with the corner). I'm not looking for foundation shaking bass just uniform bass that is not localized. It almost seems that my bass was less localized with just the one F12SE located in the left front corner of the room.

I'm sure it is nothing related to the F12SEs but the limited sub placement options I have and my room in general. I have yet to get a calibrated mic so I can use REW. So I have no way to measure the subs to see what is really going on. Is the issue of the bass prominence on the left side of my room normal when using two subs where ones room is open on one side? Is there anything that can be corrected by any settings with either one of the F12SEs or Audyssey? Due to the size of my room (14Dx17W) and the amount of furniture I'm very limited to locations for both subs. My apologies in advance for my very limited knowledge of sub calibration redface.gif. Thanks in advance for any help with this smile.gif.

Bill

Just a quick update on the above issue. Thanks to the a number of members over at the Audyssey thread I received some great advice smile.gif. Below is a post I just posted in the Audyssey thread.

I gain matched both subs and the volume level for each sub to hit 75dB was pretty close to where the levels were originally. Even though both F12SE amps are the same the gain levels are different. When I ran Audyssey I skipped the level matching step. The final levels after running Audyssey for Sub 1 (right side) is -7.5 and Sub 2 (left corner) is -11.0. I'm playing Porcupine Tree's Stupid Dream and the bass is balanced much better and has just the right amount of impact.

I want to thank Brian and Enrico for their help through the ordering process. The addition of the second F12SE is well worth the investment and the time needed to dial it in. I'm sure someone experienced with REW and a calibrated mic would do a much better job. But I'm quite happy with how my system sounds at this point smile.gif!

Bill
post #11427 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

confused.gif Actually, my understanding, the whole idea of Audyssey is to know what's what with volume settings and in order for it all to work, sans subwoofers, one needs to have a reference capable sound system. confused.gif

(and I know you know this, hence my confusion)
You start out by letting Audyssey calibrate to reference, then tune from there to whatever makes you happy.
Why else have a volume knob?
I don't know about you, but my ears can't handle reference levels all the time.

Personally, I like +2-3db on the subs over flat, when not using DynamicEQ. I'm not sure what the deal is with DynamicEQ. Either I don't like it, or else my room might still be a too reflective for it. The balance between direct and reflected sound is often problematic for EQ.
post #11428 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

You start out by letting Audyssey calibrate to reference, then tune from there to whatever makes you happy.
Why else have a volume knob?
I don't know about you, but my ears can't handle reference levels all the time.

We usually listen in the -30dB to -20dB range so we're together on this point. Hence my confusion as with Audyssey and a reference capable speaker system, one does not worry about headroom when using the MCV as Audyssey's recommendations to the AVR takes all of that into consideration. confused.gif

Quote:
Personally, I like +2-3db on the subs over flat, when not using DynamicEQ. I'm not sure what the deal is with DynamicEQ. Either I don't like it, or else my room might still be a too reflective for it. The balance between direct and reflected sound is often problematic for EQ.

As you suggest in your above, after running Anti-Mode 8033S II and Audyssey MultEQ XT with DynamicEQ engaged, I flavor but use REW to guide my efforts so to keep things as flat as reasonably possible. I'm sure I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to share which would explain my confusion.
post #11429 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Just tune it to your preferences. It's common to turn up the sub level a little above flat. You don't keep your main volume lower than you like so you'll have extra headroom. You set the volume to the way you like it.

Ok. I guess I'm wondering how much extra LFE you dial in, in dB, above flat, which leads to the question of how many peak dB SPL LFE you want at your seat to get the effect you want. Do you know from the outset that you want X dB SPL? In my case I figured I normally watch at -15 dB so 100 dB SPL LFE was my target.
post #11430 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by User5910 View Post

Ok. I guess I'm wondering how much extra LFE you dial in, in dB, above flat, which leads to the question of how many peak dB SPL LFE you want at your seat to get the effect you want. Do you know from the outset that you want X dB SPL? In my case I figured I normally watch at -15 dB so 100 dB SPL LFE was my target.
Not really. This isn't based on numbers. It's just after you are calibrated, there's nothing wrong with doing a bunch of listening and adjusting until you are happy.

Aside from personal taste, I'm sure there are some fancy psychoacoustic explanations why people prefer different settings in different rooms or different equipment. For example, people often like clean sound louder than distorted sound. Also, your brain makes you more sensitive to direct sound than reflected sound, so measuring the sum of direct and reflecting can be misleading.

The numbers provide a good starting point.
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