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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 419

post #12541 of 15102
My room is 12x20. Both subs are upfront. It is kind of hard for me to tell if I am missing mid bass or not unless I have something to compare to. I have one of radio shack spl meters so I may try to do some measurements with rew to get a better picture although I think the simulator results will be fairly close since my room is straight forward. My only issue with moving one of the subs to the back wall is that I have wires coming out of the front wall and I am not sure yet how to hide them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ will do. So you ended up like me with dual subs positions that work best based on the simulator that is one upfront and one in the back. I assume the closer your near field sub, the more tactile feeling you would get. What is your room dimension? Are the subs both upfront wall now? If so, do you feel you are missing the mid bass?
post #12542 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

My room is 12x20. Both subs are upfront. It is kind of hard for me to tell if I am missing mid bass or not unless I have something to compare to. I have one of radio shack spl meters so I may try to do some measurements with rew to get a better picture although I think the simulator results will be fairly close since my room is straight forward. My only issue with moving one of the subs to the back wall is that I have wires coming out of the front wall and I am not sure yet how to hide them.
You could use a wireless sub kit, if that fixes your problem. I've never tried one.
post #12543 of 15102
A tip for you guys playing with the REW room simulator. Check the "to left" and "to right" boxes to see what neighboring seats hear. You want those to be consistent with the main listening position, so that the same EQ will give flat response for all seats. Ideally, you tune the placement and quantity of subs for volume, flatter frequency response (or at least no nulls), and best seat-to-seat consistency.
post #12544 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

So why do you think you are happy with these subs even without properly dialling them in? Breaking in would change nothing my man; you are being SERVOED cool.gif

The output is "FANTASTIC!"

As to break-in, my understanding, it's nothing more then loosening up the driver structure from the stiffness of everything being new. Several time, links have been posted showing empirical testing data chronically the changes in the efficiency of the driver. After about forty hours, more change takes place but the benefits of the changes have begun, fast, leveling off.

As to the output, like most, being in a hurry, basic settings were made at the back of the new subs, the old subwoofers were speedily unplugged and with a might ho, thrown onto the trash heap out back and the new subwoofers were quickly but lovingly, and with all respect (fear) for the wife's laminate flooring, hooked up to the existing RCA outputs, using the old EQ settings and placed in auto-standby. Officially readied for their first movie matinee.

One has to understand about being old.....we're uber slow. Just getting up and again going to bed at night is considered a gracious act of God. And if we can do more than poop and pee in the same day, we consider it a productive day. So what use to take one hour, might take place over two or three days.

"And that's Uncle Joe, he's a-movin' kinda slow at the Junction, Petticoat Junction!"
post #12545 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

My room is 12x20. Both subs are upfront. It is kind of hard for me to tell if I am missing mid bass or not unless I have something to compare to.

My understanding, mid-bass is the crash of thunder and lightening.

Quote:
My only issue with moving one of the subs to the back wall is that I have wires coming out of the front wall and I am not sure yet how to hide them.

If you have a crawl space under the house, one has to drill holes in the flooring and run the cable under the house. If need be, an electrician needs to be called in to run a new wall/floor outlet to plug the sub into locally. In a worse case situation, one has to endure the uber inconvenience of plugging and unplugging the subs when one wants to use the back sub.

Currently, our back sub has an electric outlet but the subwoofer cable runs out in the open (in trip hazard fashion) and will need to be run under the house. And yes, it's a pain drilling holes and crawling around under the house but a subwoofer owner has to do, what a subwoofer owner, has to do.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 5:39am
post #12546 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

A tip for you guys playing with the REW room simulator. Check the "to left" and "to right" boxes to see what neighboring seats hear. You want those to be consistent with the main listening position, so that the same EQ will give flat response for all seats. Ideally, you tune the placement and quantity of subs for volume, flatter frequency response (or at least no nulls), and best seat-to-seat consistency.
I did play with that also. Isn't that cool?
post #12547 of 15102
Tap, tap, tap......

(is this microphone on?)

Tap, tap, tap.....

Testing.......

(echo, echo, echo)

...tongue.gif

(nobody's posting, got nothing to read.....need more data)
post #12548 of 15102
Quote:
Tap, tap, tap......

(is this microphone on?)
.................. biggrin.gif
post #12549 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ NICE! Are you a believer now that servo amp makes the different in the sound quality you hear? Are you running 1 port, 14hz/low?

No offence Cowpoke, but there is much more to the Rythmik design than servo alone. I know you already know that, but incase someone is looking in from outside, it needs to be said.
post #12550 of 15102
I ran my rear speaker wires the long way around the baseboards tucked right up against/under the floor molding. Not obvious unless you look for them. You could get conduit runners to cover the wires but most of the time I find that more hassle than it's worth. I am glad I quit doing installations for others decades ago; some were a major PITA. I was able to carve out "my" media room so my wife can comment but not touch. smile.gif She gets the living room...
post #12551 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

You could use a wireless sub kit, if that fixes your problem. I've never tried one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

If you have a crawl space under the house, one has to drill holes in the flooring and run the cable under the house...
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My issue is not with running the wire but with hiding the one that already exists after I move the sub to the new place.
This is where they are right now:


The back position where I am planning to move the sub to is between the door and the surround back speaker. There is already a power outlet so I just need to run a coaxial cable across the wall which shouldn't be too hard..
post #12552 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I was able to carve out "my" media room so my wife can comment but not touch. smile.gif She gets the living room...

We don't have a family room or a dedicated Home Theater space and my subwoofers are in "HER" living room.

(yes dear, I'll get the wires into the wall and under the house. right away dear. yes, I understand, they're ugly, ugly, ugly and you don't like them)

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 7:33am
post #12553 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

My issue is not with running the wire but with hiding the one that already exists after I move the sub to the new place.

I'm not understanding. Can you rerun the subwoofer cable so it's under the house or is that not an option? Also, with the carpet, one can easily tuck the subwoofer cable alone the carpeted wall edge and tuck the cable into the small gap where the edge of the carpet is. This can be done, even if using glue down carpet.

Nice dedicated Home Theater. biggrin.gif

In our case, new cables have to be individually run as to the best of my ability, with the exception of the main speaker wall, the rule to the wife's happiness is, no exposed cables. But then again, it's her living room because we don't have a family room, basement or an extra room in which to convert into a dedicated Home Theater.

(oh, the cruelty and unfairness of life)

...tongue.gif

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post #12554 of 15102
Thank you smile.gif This part of the house is on concrete slab. It has a crawl space on one of the sides which I have used before to run the electric for the recessed lighting. I already have the wires run to my current sub positions which are in the front of the room. The new sub position is in the back and there is only one wall that separates it from the equipment so the cable run will be very short and fairly easy to do. I was thinking about what do do with the empty space after I move the sub.. may be I should just buy a third sub and call it a day biggrin.gif



Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm not understanding. Can you rerun the subwoofer cable so it's under the house or is that not an option? Also, with the carpet, one can easily tuck the subwoofer cable alone the carpeted wall edge and tuck the cable into the small gap where the edge of the carpet is. This can be done, even if using glue down carpet.

Nice dedicated Home Theater. biggrin.gif

In our case, new cables have to be individually run as to the best of my ability, with the exception of the main speaker wall, the rule to the wife's happiness is, no exposed cables. But then again, it's her living room because we don't have a family room, basement or an extra room in which to convert into a dedicated Home Theater.

(oh, the cruelty and unfairness of life)

...tongue.gif

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post #12555 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

Thank you smile.gif This part of the house is on concrete slab. It has a crawl space on one of the sides which I have used before to run the electric for the recessed lighting. I already have the wires run to my current sub positions which are in the front of the room. The new sub position is in the back and there is only one wall that separates it from the equipment so the cable run will be very short and fairly easy to do. I was thinking about what do do with the empty space after I move the sub.. may be I should just buy a third sub and call it a day biggrin.gif

Third sub +1!

I have a similar problem. I'm choosing to look for a black shelf or trunk of similar dimensions.
post #12556 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

I'm choosing to look for a black shelf or trunk of similar dimensions.

For a subwoofer stand? confused.gif

If done for symmetry, and one is looking for a valid excuse, go with the third subwoofer.

If one already has a flat graph, above and beyond benefits of any mutual coupling, how much does everybody think a third FV15HP would add to the sonic equation?

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 8:48am
post #12557 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

Thank you smile.gif This part of the house is on concrete slab. It has a crawl space on one of the sides which I have used before to run the electric for the recessed lighting. I already have the wires run to my current sub positions which are in the front of the room. The new sub position is in the back and there is only one wall that separates it from the equipment so the cable run will be very short and fairly easy to do. I was thinking about what do do with the empty space after I move the sub.. may be I should just buy a third sub and call it a day biggrin.gif
That's exactly what I was thinking. It would be a shame to throw off the symmetry, when the rest of the room is looks so nice.

Since the back sub is nearfield, it shouldn't have much problem balancing out the front two, so I don't think there'd be any need to go to 4.
post #12558 of 15102
That's what I was thinking as well. It should serve the purpose of smoothing out the response, add more tactile feedback, preserve symmetry and the extra output is a bonus... I feel bad for my wallet already smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

That's exactly what I was thinking. It would be a shame to throw off the symmetry, when the rest of the room is looks so nice.

Since the back sub is nearfield, it shouldn't have much problem balancing out the front two, so I don't think there'd be any need to go to 4.
post #12559 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

I was thinking about what do do with the empty space after I move the sub.. may be I should just buy a third sub and call it a day biggrin.gif
If you did you probably still should not retain the current placement. They look nice, but symmetry of placement seldom gives the best result with subs. Home theaters are like women. When the lights are out it doesn't matter what they look like.
As for the wire issue, wireless sub transmission works very well, since they don't operate in the upper frequencies where noise is a potential problem.
post #12560 of 15102
When I ran the REW room simulator, it seemed like my two subs in their current location have very similar response resulting in a dip between 50-60hz. Wouldn't that be a good thing if they are to be treated as one sub? Based on my room layout, where do you think would be a better placement option? I cannot put them in the front corners because of the FL and FR speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

If you did you probably still should not retain the current placement. They look nice, but symmetry of placement seldom gives the best result with subs. Home theaters are like women. When the lights are out it doesn't matter what they look like.
As for the wire issue, wireless sub transmission works very well, since they don't operate in the upper frequencies where noise is a potential problem.
post #12561 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

When I ran the REW room simulator, it seemed like my two subs in their current location have very similar response resulting in a dip between 50-60hz. Wouldn't that be a good thing if they are to be treated as one sub?
It's a bad thing, because they're both exciting the same cancellation nulls. That's what happens with symmetric placement, especially with both in the front of the room. Good placement has each sub exciting different nulls, so that you end up with a larger number of shallow nulls rather than a smaller number of deeper nulls. That evens out response across the room and makes it much easier to EQ the system to flat.
post #12562 of 15102
I see what you are saying.. Correct me if I am wrong. If I stay with two subs I definitely need to have them asymmetrically as in use one in the front and one in the back. If I go with three, it is best to have all three asymmetrically placed but since that is not possible in my case, placing two of them symmetrically in the front and a third one in the back should be at least be as good as or better than having two subs one in the back and one in the front.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's a bad thing, because they're both exciting the same cancellation nulls. That's what happens with symmetric placement, especially with both in the front of the room. Good placement has each sub exciting different nulls, so that you end up with a larger number of shallow nulls rather than a smaller number of deeper nulls. That evens out response across the room and makes it much easier to EQ the system to flat.

Edited by ahmedreda - 12/19/13 at 10:58am
post #12563 of 15102
I would think just the extra output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


If one already has a flat graph, above and beyond benefits of any mutual coupling, how much does everybody think a third FV15HP would add to the sonic equation?

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post #12564 of 15102
Thanks for the reply and confirming what I was thinking. I was hoping there would be more than just an increase in output and the lower octaves would experience an increase in sonic quality.
post #12565 of 15102
Alright guys just for shits and gigs ima try and blend my lv12r with my fv15hps.. my goal is to improve overall room smoothing and add a touch of mid bass.

If this ends up taking away from the quality at all then so be it and I can always disconnect it. I just figured it would be a nice lil experiment.

Anyways.. now that my fv15s are diled in how do I go about dialing in the lv12r? My idea (since I'm only using yapo which only hears freqs to like 45 hz or something and do not have a dedicated life EQ) is to just run another splitter and lfe cord running to the lv12r and just see how it sounds withoout running yapo with all 3 subs. I'm thinking that if I run yapo with all 3 then it will dial the fv15s down to much and I'd lose a bunch of head room.

What do u guys think?
post #12566 of 15102
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Alright guys just for shits and gigs ima try and blend my lv12r with my fv15hps.. my goal is to improve overall room smoothing and add a touch of mid bass.

If this ends up taking away from the quality at all then so be it and I can always disconnect it. I just figured it would be a nice lil experiment.

Anyways.. now that my fv15s are diled in how do I go about dialing in the lv12r? My idea (since I'm only using yapo which only hears freqs to like 45 hz or something and do not have a dedicated life EQ) is to just run another splitter and lfe cord running to the lv12r and just see how it sounds withoout running yapo with all 3 subs. I'm thinking that if I run yapo with all 3 then it will dial the fv15s down to much and I'd lose a bunch of head room.

What do u guys think?

It's like showing lamp to sun. You can never outshine it. Your only option is to use LV12R near-field in such a huge mismatch.
post #12567 of 15102
Yes the lv12r will be right next to my MLP.

eventually I will prolly sell lv12r and buy a 3rd and maybe 4th fv15hp.

Like I said this is just an experimental thing lol
post #12568 of 15102
Quote:
eventually I will prolly sell lv12r and buy a 3rd and maybe 4th fv15hp.

You are the man!!!!
post #12569 of 15102
Lol! The thing that sucks is that I have the money to buy 2 more now but IMA be working away from home for about 6 months (3and a half hours from home and I'll be home Sundays only) so I'm not gonna spend that kind of money on more subs when I can't even listen to em. Plus it will just be a HUGE distraction from work
post #12570 of 15102
^^well, since they are back order now, if you order now, you will get them then smile.gif
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